Ancient Alien Tv program

[Bignose]

There is no right and wrong here, there is no definitive answers, it cant be proven one way or the other, yes not exactly science but I give the show a thumbs up for putting the speculative evidence out there, for asking the questions, for making it available to a wider audience....because unfortunately most people veg by their TV's than read or would not otherwise come into contact with this theory, and of course this whole subject has been poo-pooed by mainstream science for years, why would they change now.

This is the supreme cop out, in my opinion. Firstly, science doesn't 'prove' anything. It just shows what ideas make predictions that agree most with the evidence. It may surprise you that the Theory of Gravity isn't proven, for example. But is sure is verified almost uncountably times over. It will never be proven, it will just have the ability to make incredibly accurate predictions over and over. But if something ever came along that made better predictions, then it would supplant the Theory of Gravity.

 

Secondly, the main problem with the show is that it doesn't bother to discuss the heaps and heaps of evidence against their ideas. They cherry pick in the hopes that their viewers won't bother to look any deeper than what they present. This is in no way science, though it tries to give every impression that it is science. It is this ingenuousness that really irritates people who actually like science and what it stands for. This kind of exposure to a wider audience belittles the actual science that occurs and really gives people the wrong impression about the state of science.

 

This belittlement of actual science has effects on people. It's why far, far too many people actually think there is some kind of scientific controversy about creationism. It's why far, far, far, far too many people think that it is a bad idea to vaccinate their kids. It's why people continue to buy into non-proven medicines, supplements, herbs, etc. These last two can have the direst of consequences -- i.e. people die.

 

Compare Ancient Aliens with the version of Cosmos that is airing right now. Cosmos has some speculative things in it -- and it isn't perfect -- but it does such a better job of using language to show what things are known and what things are speculative.

 

It's not just 'poo-pooing', it's a question of how things pretending to be science present themselves.

 

Edit: changed 'ingeniousness' to 'ingenuousness'... slightly different meanings of the words there

Edited March 17, 2014 by Bignose

[cladking]

 

Secondly, the main problem with the show is that it doesn't bother to discuss the heaps and heaps of evidence against their ideas. They cherry pick in the hopes that their viewers won't bother to look any deeper than what they present. This is in no way science, though it tries to give every impression that it is science. It is this ingeniousness that really irritates people who actually like science and what it stands for. This kind of exposure to a wider audience belittles the actual science that occurs and really gives people the wrong impression about the state of science.

 

This belittlement of actual science has effects on people. It's why far, far too many people actually think there is some kind of scientific controversy about creationism. It's why far, far, far, far too many people think that it is a bad idea to vaccinate their kids. It's why people continue to buy into non-proven medicines, supplements, herbs, etc. These last two can have the direst of consequences -- i.e. people die.

 

 

I disagree. The main reasons that there are anti-scientific ideas that are popular is that the educational system has failed and we've jumped the shark. Secondarily, the fact that so many highly speculative, false, contradictory, or unsupported ideas are presented as "science" that people just learn to take it all with a grain of salt. The fact that the media doesn't even attempt to sort speculators from scientists simply doesn't help.

 

It just so happens that the orthodox opinions about pyramid building are wrong. This is why they can't support their ideas; they are wrong. The word "ramp" isn't even attested in the great pyramid building age but when was the last time you heard an Egyptologist admit this?

 

The fact of the matter is that there is more actual evidence and higher grade evidence for "aliens" than there is for "ramps". I doubt this means aliens built the pyramids but anyone who believes this is "settled science" is misled and probably an outsider. There is no science to support ramps and this concept has failed to make accurate predictions for a century and a half.

 

Ancient Aliens is mostly entertainment and not science. But Egyptology is more about a few basic assumptions than it is science. They aren't even attempting to take the high road on science and instead are merely investigating the world as it would exist if they were correct. They won't even do the basic scientific testing that would prove their theories are right or wrong. It has been this way for over a quarter century and they've been oin the wrong track for a century and a half.

[Bignose]

I disagree. The main reasons that there are anti-scientific ideas that are popular is that the educational system has failed and we've jumped the shark. Secondarily, the fact that so many highly speculative, false, contradictory, or unsupported ideas are presented as "science" that people just learn to take it all with a grain of salt. The fact that the media doesn't even attempt to sort speculators from scientists simply doesn't help.

I find it humorous that you 'disagree' and then say a lot of my same points. I will agree that it is a Catch-22 in that if the schools don't teach good science, it is hard for the media to be held responsible. But, the fact that the media plays so haphazardly with science reinforces the notion that it isn't so important to teach in schools. I guess in many ways, I don't care whose fault it lies with more -- both sides ought to address it.

 

As for your ideas about the pyramids, I'd say that the more extraordinary evidence you can collect that backs up your ideas, then the less likely you will be ignored. Science is a human endeavor, with all the failing inherent in humans in play. This includes defending ideas in the face of evidence, and misusing power to quash competitive ideas. It isn't going to be fixed here. And your personal ideas belong it its own thread, not here.

 

What is on topic for this discussion is the TV program Ancient Aliens, and how it pretends to be scientific but is woefully non rigorous in that respect.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Bignose

[cladking]

I find it humorous that you 'disagree' and then say a lot of my same points. I will agree that it is a Catch-22 in that if the schools don't teach good science, it is hard for the media to be held responsible. But, the fact that the media plays so haphazardly with science reinforces the notion that it isn't so important to teach in schools. I guess in many ways, I don't care whose fault it lies with more -- both sides ought to address it.

 

 

I believe the problem with the way the medie handle science is not directly caused

by the failure of education. Obviously as reporters are dumbed down so too will their

handling of science stories suffer but it goes beyond this since not all reporters are

less well informed and this has always been the case. It's more a reflection of edit-

orial policy that includes anything of "reader interest" whether it's really science or not.

It's about selling advertising rather than the truth or the facts. While reporters on the

whole have much poorer scientific background the reporting of such things has suf-

fered far more.

 

It's not being addressed because it is so pervasive. We don't teach the basis; the na-

ture of science (people don't even recognize the word for this) so even well educated

people often don't understand the nature of science. People in the soft "sciences" are

often unfamilar with even basic concepts of science.

 

 

As for your ideas about the pyramids, I'd say that the more extraordinary evidence you can collect that backs up your ideas, then the less likely you will be ignored. Science is a human endeavor, with all the failing inherent in humans in play. This includes defending ideas in the face of evidence, and misusing power to quash competitive ideas. It isn't going to be fixed here. And your personal ideas belong it its own thread, not here.

 

 

This is in no way about my theory. The fact that my theory has broad implications

is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how I know that the media doesn't care about facts,

what matters is that they don't and that Ancient Aliens is just another sympton of

this. The dumbing down is affecting everything. Some of the "mechanical" failures

can be laid at the feet of computers and the internet which has caused people to

devalue knowledge since it can be looked up, but critical thinking is falling by the way-

side at the same time and this is another cause of Ancient Aliens.

 

 

What is on topic for this discussion is the TV program Ancient Aliens, and how it pretends to be scientific but is woefully non rigorous in that respect.

 

There is no science being applied to archaeology as it concerns these subjects. Many

people know intuitively or through other means that our beliefs are wrong and this is

what has given rise to numerous ideas like Atlantis, aliens, levitation, and all manner

of ideas that can explain the evidence. Why wouldn't the entertainment industry pick

up this ball and run with it? They care primarily about advertising and they don't know

any more about it than you or I so they produce this tripe and make money.

 

So long as science is under attack from within and without this will get worse and not

better. Complaining about the quality of Ancient Aliens is more like free advertising for

the producers than anything.

 

If science is going to win any of these battles then we need SCIENCE. This means

we need to do the science to show that there were aliens or no aliens. We need to do

the SCIENCE that will show us what the reality is rather than to just continue the cur-

rent practices which don't involve even simple measurements. So long as people are

willing to support beliefs it might as well be the 12th century.

 

I can't divorce what I believe from what I say any more than anyone else can. I believe

what I'm saying is on topic and very to relevant Ancient Aliens. I believe that if all of science

including the soft sciences simply started taking the high road that most of this nonsense

would come to be seen for what it is. I believe that if we worked harder on teaching kids

what science is that there would be less of a market and less of a need for Ancient Aliens.

 

I believe the cause of most of this nonsense can be seen when we look in a mirror.

 

If scientists can't bear the torch and take the high road then there's no real chance the His-

tory Channel is going to do it.

Edited March 17, 2014 by cladking

[scotmon]

The problem, mojo, is where does it end?

 

I can write, draw, and create 'ancient texts' that provide plenty of speculation that I have an invisible dinosaur the lives in my backyard, I've created a cold fusion reactor from used kitty litter in my basement, and transmuted clay into platinum via the power of wishing. And then I can go all accusatory -- just like you did -- and ask who are you not to think that it's factual?

 

This farcical example aside, the point is that what you have written could possibly be true, but given the evidence we have to date, you really can't call it the most likely. Science takes observations and predictions and goes with the ones that match the best, objectively, repeatably, and significantly. Interpreting these text as aliens is a possibility. But, it isn't the most probable. More probably is that many of the stories are allegorical in nature, and meant to convey a message in the context of their times.

 

For example, the Bible hints that Methuselah was over 700 years old at the time of his death. Is that possible? Well, sure, I'd agree that its probability isn't exactly zero. But you must concede it is incredibly improbable. And the more probable interpretation of that very advanced age is that for the writers of the Biblical stories, age was directly correlated to wisdom, and vice versa. And as Methuselah was considered very wise, he must therefore have been very old.

 

Bigger point: in science, it is not enough for an idea to just be possible to be considered equal. Science is not a pure democracy in which every idea is equal just because it exists. Science is a meritocracy, in which only the ideas that make the best predictions that agree the most with all the evidence (not just a few pieces) are considered the best. So if you really want to support the idea of aliens visiting the ancient peoples, then you need to demonstrate a great deal more of the evidence.

THE HIGHLY EDUCATED ALIENS CAME AND WENT AND DID NOT TELL ANYONE HOW TO MAKE A WHEEL...AN ARCH...OR WRITE ...AND BLESS THEIR SOULS...NO MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS !...

LETS TAKE THE INCAS...SOME SAY THAT THEY COULD NOT DRAW ON THE DESERT AND STACK HUGE STONES...BUT OF COURSE IF THE ALIENS HAD SHOWED THEM THE WHEEL ...THE ARCH...AND WRITING ....WELL ANY WAY THE INCAS... AZTEC AND NASCAS DID NOT HAVE THESE TOOLS TILL THE EUROPEANS ARRIVED IN THE 15TH AND 16TH CENTURIES...

 

I believe the problem with the way the medie handle science is not directly caused

by the failure of education. Obviously as reporters are dumbed down so too will their

handling of science stories suffer but it goes beyond this since not all reporters are

less well informed and this has always been the case. It's more a reflection of edit-

orial policy that includes anything of "reader interest" whether it's really science or not.

It's about selling advertising rather than the truth or the facts. While reporters on the

whole have much poorer scientific background the reporting of such things has suf-

fered far more.

 

It's not being addressed because it is so pervasive. We don't teach the basis; the na-

ture of science (people don't even recognize the word for this) so even well educated

people often don't understand the nature of science. People in the soft "sciences" are

often unfamilar with even basic concepts of science.

 

 

 

This is in no way about my theory. The fact that my theory has broad implications

is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how I know that the media doesn't care about facts,

what matters is that they don't and that Ancient Aliens is just another sympton of

this. The dumbing down is affecting everything. Some of the "mechanical" failures

can be laid at the feet of computers and the internet which has caused people to

devalue knowledge since it can be looked up, but critical thinking is falling by the way-

side at the same time and this is another cause of Ancient Aliens.

 

 

 

There is no science being applied to archaeology as it concerns these subjects. Many

people know intuitively or through other means that our beliefs are wrong and this is

what has given rise to numerous ideas like Atlantis, aliens, levitation, and all manner

of ideas that can explain the evidence. Why wouldn't the entertainment industry pick

up this ball and run with it? They care primarily about advertising and they don't know

any more about it than you or I so they produce this tripe and make money.

 

So long as science is under attack from within and without this will get worse and not

better. Complaining about the quality of Ancient Aliens is more like free advertising for

the producers than anything.

 

If science is going to win any of these battles then we need SCIENCE. This means

we need to do the science to show that there were aliens or no aliens. We need to do

the SCIENCE that will show us what the reality is rather than to just continue the cur-

rent practices which don't involve even simple measurements. So long as people are

willing to support beliefs it might as well be the 12th century.

 

I can't divorce what I believe from what I say any more than anyone else can. I believe

what I'm saying is on topic and very to relevant Ancient Aliens. I believe that if all of science

including the soft sciences simply started taking the high road that most of this nonsense

would come to be seen for what it is. I believe that if we worked harder on teaching kids

what science is that there would be less of a market and less of a need for Ancient Aliens.

 

I believe the cause of most of this nonsense can be seen when we look in a mirror.

 

If scientists can't bear the torch and take the high road then there's no real chance the His-

tory Channel is going to do it.

Wonder why the ancient aliens did not tell the INCAS,,,AZTEC...and NASCAS about ...the ARCH...the WHEEL

and WRITING....??? The EGYPTIONS piled all them sones up without the ARCH and the WHEEL...

 

I disagree. The main reasons that there are anti-scientific ideas that are popular is that the educational system has failed and we've jumped the shark. Secondarily, the fact that so many highly speculative, false, contradictory, or unsupported ideas are presented as "science" that people just learn to take it all with a grain of salt. The fact that the media doesn't even attempt to sort speculators from scientists simply doesn't help.

 

It just so happens that the orthodox opinions about pyramid building are wrong. This is why they can't support their ideas; they are wrong. The word "ramp" isn't even attested in the great pyramid building age but when was the last time you heard an Egyptologist admit this?

 

The fact of the matter is that there is more actual evidence and higher grade evidence for "aliens" than there is for "ramps". I doubt this means aliens built the pyramids but anyone who believes this is "settled science" is misled and probably an outsider. There is no science to support ramps and this concept has failed to make accurate predictions for a century and a half.

 

Ancient Aliens is mostly entertainment and not science. But Egyptology is more about a few basic assumptions than it is science. They aren't even attempting to take the high road on science and instead are merely investigating the world as it would exist if they were correct. They won't even do the basic scientific testing that would prove their theories are right or wrong. It has been this way for over a quarter century and they've been oin the wrong track for a century and a half.

I wonder why the ancient aliens forgot to tell the INCAS...NASCAS,,,and te AZTECS...about the ARCH...WHEEL and WRITING ...they did not have these things till the europeans arrived in the 15th and 16th centries...

[cladking]

I wonder why the ancient aliens forgot to tell the INCAS...NASCAS,,,and te AZTECS...about the ARCH...WHEEL and WRITING ...they did not have these things till the europeans arrived in the 15th and 16th centries...

 

 

They had writing.

 

You arew making an assumption that the arch or the wheel would have made

building the pyramid easier but this is unsubstantiated. We don't even know how

they built the pyramid so we don't know where an arch or wheel would have helped.

 

The wheel was actually invented 1000 years before the Great Pyramid was built so

if they needed it then I'm very confident they would have used it.

 

[Moontanman]

THE HIGHLY EDUCATED ALIENS CAME AND WENT AND DID NOT TELL ANYONE HOW TO MAKE A WHEEL...AN ARCH...OR WRITE ...AND BLESS THEIR SOULS...NO MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS !...

LETS TAKE THE INCAS...SOME SAY THAT THEY COULD NOT DRAW ON THE DESERT AND STACK HUGE STONES...BUT OF COURSE IF THE ALIENS HAD SHOWED THEM THE WHEEL ...THE ARCH...AND WRITING ....WELL ANY WAY THE INCAS... AZTEC AND NASCAS DID NOT HAVE THESE TOOLS TILL THE EUROPEANS ARRIVED IN THE 15TH AND 16TH CENTURIES...

Wonder why the ancient aliens did not tell the INCAS,,,AZTEC...and NASCAS about ...the ARCH...the WHEEL

and WRITING....??? The EGYPTIONS piled all them sones up without the ARCH and the WHEEL...

I wonder why the ancient aliens forgot to tell the INCAS...NASCAS,,,and te AZTECS...about the ARCH...WHEEL and WRITING ...they did not have these things till the europeans arrived in the 15th and 16th centries...

 

 

Actually in the "New World" the wheel was not used in anything but children's toys but they had the concept... I am pretty sure they had writing as well...The great pyramid was built in Egypt not meso america, also though they did have pyramids and stone buildings... I have also seen pictures of arches that predate European influence...

[Paul Waygood]

THis show is just BS. IF and it is a BIG IF there was some spek of truth in what the show portrays it would be lost in the pile of conjecture that the idiots, yes idiots spout.

 

In several episodes they state that the people depicted what they saw litterally and sometimes depicted the bloody aliens as an interpretation. The episode that really takes the top prize is the one featuring alien flying mansions with gardens related to India.

 

I believe that life is abundant in the universe. I don't believe that an alien race can bypass the laws of physics. I dont believe that the laws of physics can be overcome. And I don't believe that an alien race would build monuments to themselves and then just bugger off.

I am a rerptile and I claim my seventy-odd virgins on a planet in the beta centauri system. I've got as much proof as the spiky-haired geek.

[beecee]

2 minutes ago, Paul Waygood said:

THis show is just BS. IF and it is a BIG IF there was some spek of truth in what the show portrays it would be lost in the pile of conjecture that the idiots, yes idiots spout.

 

In several episodes they state that the people depicted what they saw litterally and sometimes depicted the bloody aliens as an interpretation. The episode that really takes the top prize is the one featuring alien flying mansions with gardens related to India.

 

I believe that life is abundant in the universe. I don't believe that an alien race can bypass the laws of physics. I dont believe that the laws of physics can be overcome. And I don't believe that an alien race would build monuments to themselves and then just bugger off.

I am a rerptile and I claim my seventy-odd virgins on a planet in the beta centauri system. I've got as much proof as the spiky-haired geek.

I havn't seen the show in question, but for some unknown reason, my facebook page is being infestated with similar tripe from a mag called Gaia.

 

All in all, I agree with exactly what you have said...I certainly accept that we on planet Earth are not the only place where life has evolved, but in saying that, we have as yet no evidence for any life existing anywhere else.

[Moontanman]

The concept of ancient aliens isn't necessarily nonsense, it depends on how far you take speculation. Ancient aliens is part of the Fermi Paradox explanations  and shouldn't simply be dismissed. Of course the way ancient aliens is portrayed on the History channel is inexcusable. This video gives a much more reasonable take on the problem.  

 

For those of us who think the History channel portrayal is reasonable rest assured the evidence is non existent and the so called anomalies are quite easy to explain. Sadly few people are interested in knowing the real answers to the conundrum. This is very long but the video pretty much blows the history channel out of the water. Sadly most people do not have the time to listen to the opposing view point . 

 

 

 

This might be a easier way to investigate this...

 

https://www.ancientaliensdebunked.com/

[Ten oz]

On 10/28/2018 at 2:41 PM, Paul Waygood said:

THis show is just BS. IF and it is a BIG IF there was some spek of truth in what the show portrays it would be lost in the pile of conjecture that the idiots, yes idiots spout.

 

In several episodes they state that the people depicted what they saw litterally and sometimes depicted the bloody aliens as an interpretation. The episode that really takes the top prize is the one featuring alien flying mansions with gardens related to India.

All creation theories are fantastical conjecture . I think on some level as more and more people stop taking religion serious they are turning toward other narratives which can explain why we are here. Science doesn't attempt to answer why things are (natural laws do not have motivations) but rather focuses how thing are. Humans are curious by nature and many of us from a very young age conflate why and how.  So people turn to a purposeful type of panspermia involving aliens to explain why we are here. I view the popularity growth in the things promoted on Ancient Aliens as the dawn of what might become the next majority religion. It is a bit more grounded in the possible but still make believe. 

On 10/28/2018 at 2:41 PM, Paul Waygood said:

I believe that life is abundant in the universe. I don't believe that an alien race can bypass the laws of physics. I dont believe that the laws of physics can be overcome. And I don't believe that an alien race would build monuments to themselves and then just bugger off.

I am a rerptile and I claim my seventy-odd virgins on a planet in the beta centauri system. I've got as much proof as the spiky-haired geek.

I believe life could be abundant. I also believe that our (Human) understanding of physics has limits. In real time all knowledge is at it height. We don't know what we don't know and I believe there is more to learn.