Moderating a Forum

[DJBruce]

In the other thread on the reputation system there are repeated coments by moderators who are saying that certain comments about moderation is off topic. The purpose of this thread is to breath life into that subject and as such to discuss everything about being a moderator such as whether the forum rules should be construed as applying to them.

 

My opening question is therefore: Is it against the forum rules for a moderator to be rude to a member when they are operating in moderator mode? Are we allowed to disscuss moderation and moderator actions in threads?

 

Moderators are members of this forum just like you and I, and as Cap'n pointed out they are thus subject to all of the forum rules. In addition, SFN has published the moderating policy that all mods follow here.

 

However, your question of whether or not moderators must follow the rules is only really applicable if there have been instances of moderators abusing their powers and breaking the rules. In my experience the moderators here on SFN do a great job, and work very hard to make sure all of their decisions are transparent and impartial. Are their specific instances you can cite where you believe moderators were breaking the rules because if not I am not sure I understand the point of discussing what would then be a non-issue.

[pmb]

Are their specific instances you can cite where you believe moderators were breaking the rules because if not I am not sure I understand the point of discussing what would then be a non-issue.

These kinds of things are private which means that they came in PM and therefore it should remain there. A few days I anonymously discussed such a PM. Even though I kept it private as to who was who the other person was very upset that I mentioned in in open forum. Therefore I don't want to make the same mistake again. I'd be glad to discuss it with you in PM though if you want. If so then please send me a PM stating what you want to know. I'l considerate to make sure its not something someone could get angry with me again and we can go from there.

Edited July 8, 2012 by pmb

[imatfaal]

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Moderator Note

The insults and attacks against other posters or members stop now! That goes for everyone - this thread will only be allowed to continue iff it does so in an amicable and calm manner.

Aethelwulf - direct insults at another member are completely unacceptable in any circumstance. Your actions in this thread and in others in the last few days are under active discussion by staff and administrators and it is possible that sanctions will follow without further notice; in any case please read this as your final warning that continued breaches of the rules will not be tolerated.

[Greg H.]

I am going to chime in with my own two cents.

 

Honestly, I don't give a crap if the moderators are flesh gobbling aliens from the planet Xeezelbrox 9 here to steal our souls and turn our bodies into cat food. An Internet forum is not a democracy of the members, it is an oligarchy run by the staff and admins. If anyone has a problem with a particular moderator or moderation of a particular thread, bring it up in the appropriate manner. The rest of us really don't want to read another bitch fest about it. If anyone dislikes the way the forum is run, feel free to unsub and move on to greener pastures elsewhere.

 

Thank you.

 

Can we now all get back to our regularly scheduled debating, already in progress?

[Aethelwulf]

Sorry, mate, but noting that your mother was once pregnant with you and using the term "knocked up" to say so is not equivalent to "verbally defiling peoples parents."

 

You don't have the right to talk about anyone's parents, unless you where trying to derail a thread. It's quite clear however, you were trying to get personal, in which case from now on, I will be treating my conversations with you very personally... especially when you talk about things as an open hypocrite.

 

!

Moderator Note

The insults and attacks against other posters or members stop now! That goes for everyone - this thread will only be allowed to continue iff it does so in an amicable and calm manner.

 

Aethelwulf - direct insults at another member are completely unacceptable in any circumstance. Your actions in this thread and in others in the last few days are under active discussion by staff and administrators and it is possible that sanctions will follow without further notice; in any case please read this as your final warning that continued breaches of the rules will not be tolerated.

 

 

 

 

What have I said, that is this bad you needed to warn me?

[iNow]

from now on, I will be treating my conversations with you very personally... especially when you talk about things as an open hypocrite.

<snip>

What have I said, that is this bad you needed to warn me?

And all within the same post. Fascinating.

 

And, FYI... This previous post from you probably didn't help:

 

 

You really are an idiot. Neg rep me folks, ''I have an opinion''!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hiding behind your bugs bunny avatar, I bet you don't even have much knowledge in physics. Ironically, I have not seen you bitching about anything, or even a scientific comment outside of my God thread... makes me think you are incapable of even discussing science.

[zapatos]

Yeah. I'm well aware of that but there's nothing I can do about it.

I was not suggesting that you should be held responsible for someone else's actions. I was simply stating that the thread was indeed degenerating into a bitch fest, whether you had anything to do with it or not.

 

But responding to negative emotions acts to keep those emotions alive. It's best to avoid acknowledging negative emotions.

I avoided acknowledging those negative emotions during the entire 'reputation' thread. Avoiding it is a worthy effort, but if avoiding it fails, then it is time to step up and say something.

 

This whole discussion of the reputation system and the mods has become a farce.

 

The reputation system is given to the users by the forum, with a general expectation as to how it will be used. But no one is under any illusions. The users themselves will determine how it is ultimately used. I understand someone expressing their concerns about it, but discussing it for 14 pages is ridiculous. It's a rep system, anonymously assigning points to anonymous people. This is not someone's MCAT score.

 

The mods work for free to help make this site as good as it is. I know from experience that the more someone volunteers to help the more they become the target of criticism. The mods are the ones using their best judgement, on their own time, to improve our experience. Again, I understand someone expressing their concerns, but given that the mods are not really making any life or death decisions, I think it behooves us all to back off a bit and cut them some slack.

[pmb]

I was not suggesting that you should be held responsible for someone else's actions. I was simply stating that the thread was indeed degenerating into a bitch fest, whether you had anything to do with it or not.

Thanks. I appreciate that.

 

I avoided acknowledging those negative emotions during the entire 'reputation' thread. Avoiding it is a worthy effort, but if avoiding it fails, then it is time to step up and say something.

 

This whole discussion of the reputation system and the mods has become a farce.

Yeah. I know. I've found it helpful to talk to people in PM about these kinds of things. It turns out that the people you might apprear to be real jerks turn out to be very nice people. You jnust need to get to know them, that's all. I found it to be a very rewarding experience myself. A real education too.

 

The reputation system is given to the users by the forum, with a general expectation as to how it will be used. But no one is under any illusions. The users themselves will determine how it is ultimately used. I understand someone expressing their concerns about it, but discussing it for 14 pages is ridiculous. It's a rep system, anonymously assigning points to anonymous people. This is not someone's MCAT score.

Yeah, but a conversation consists of more than one person. If the conversatin continued for 14 pages then it was caused, in part, by the moderators defending themselves. No matter what the circumstances are, when someone is trying to defend their actions it is never fully accepted. I've seen that too many times to count and that's what I saw in that thread. People defending themselves.

 

The mods work for free to help make this site as good as it is. I know from experience that the more someone volunteers to help the more they become the target of criticism. The mods are the ones using their best judgement, on their own time, to improve our experience. Again, I understand someone expressing their concerns, but given that the mods are not really making any life or death decisions, I think it behooves us all to back off a bit and cut them some slack.

OIf course. And this thread shouldn't be used as an excuse to criticize them or the poeple who have arguments with them.

 

I expect that moderators do what they do because it has its rewards on its own. There must be some satisfaction in moderating a forum. Perhaps people enjoy having a saw a to how a forum runs or whatever the case may be.

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

Let's not go back down the road of talking about mothers. AW, if you don't wish to discuss it, please don't bring it up in threads.

[Aethelwulf]

 

The mods work for free to help make this site as good as it is. I know from experience that the more someone volunteers to help the more they become the target of criticism. The mods are the ones using their best judgement, on their own time, to improve our experience. Again, I understand someone expressing their concerns, but given that the mods are not really making any life or death decisions, I think it behooves us all to back off a bit and cut them some slack.

 

Well, in that case, this isn't what this thread is about. This has nothing to do with ''moderators'' personally.

 

 

 

 

I don't think this is personal at all with them, just a few things about the way the site works. It's not their fault there are flaws in the system, question is, is whether the mods actually do something about it?

[iNow]

To what flaws specifically are you referring?

What specific changes would you like to see implemented?

[pmb]

To what flaws specifically are you referring?

What specific changes would you like to see implemented?

Myself, moderators expect us to be polite, which I appreciate. I very much enjoy a forum where the membrs are polite so I appreciate that kind of thing. However there are a few moderators who aren't always polite themselves and they really should be, expecially when they're moderating. Otherwise moderator directions, comming from somone who is expressing anger or impatience, can actually work against calming people down and as a result some members, unfortunately even me in the past, then feel the need snap back in kind. I'm working to get that under control on my end but its hard when someone is being mean to get what they want.

Edited July 9, 2012 by pmb

[iNow]

Golly. It really is too bad they're just humans. Thanks for the response, but my question was for Aethelwulf.

[pmb]

Golly. It really is too bad they're just humans.

You're acting like your their mother when in fact they're grown adults who are responsible for their actions. Its not as if they're children who can't control their actions. All I'm saying is that they shouldn't be hypocrits, that they shoulld act like they're expecting us to act. Being human doesn't mean that they are incapable of doing that. All moderators are capable of posting moderatror comments in the polite fashion that they expect us to post our responses.

 

Let us recall what this forum is. The subect matter for this forum is Suggestions, Comments and Support. That's why I posted this in this subfoum,

 

Thanks for the response, but my question was for Aethelwulf.

Yep. I was simply adding my 2 cents since this is the subject of this thread.

Edited July 9, 2012 by pmb

[CaptainPanic]

In the other thread on the reputation system there are repeated coments by moderators who are saying that certain comments about moderation is off topic. The purpose of this thread is to breath life into that subject and as such to discuss everything about being a moderator such as whether the forum rules should be construed as applying to them.

 

My opening question is therefore: Is it against the forum rules for a moderator to be rude to a member when they are operating in moderator mode? Are we allowed to disscuss moderation and moderator actions in threads?

Frankly, your constant attention to the moderation here is getting on my nerves. Yes, we make mistakes. We're all very sorry that we're not perfect. And if you don't like it, you can go and find another forum.

 

Myself, moderators expect us to be polite, which I appreciate. I very much enjoy a forum where the membrs are polite so I appreciate that kind of thing. However there are a few moderators who aren't always polite themselves and they really should be, expecially when they're moderating. Otherwise moderator directions, comming from somone who is expressing anger or impatience, can actually work against calming people down and as a result some members, unfortunately even me in the past, then feel the need snap back in kind. I'm working to get that under control on my end but its hard when someone is being mean to get what they want.

Aww. You must be new on the internet... complaining about the behavior of the moderators on one of the most polite and friendly forums on the entire interwebs. Maybe my previous advice was wrong: don't go find another forum. They'll eat you alive.

 

Please tell us, other than handing over the entire forum to you, is there any way that you can stop complaining?

[pmb]

Frankly, your constant attention to the moderation here is getting on my nerves. Yes, we make mistakes. We're all very sorry that we're not perfect. And if you don't like it, you can go and find another forum.

You're being unfair. All my questions were basically answered in post #8 where you told us that moderators are bound by the same rules that we are. Yes. I bitch when I see a moderator post a comment which I percieve as rude. Big deal. I do the same thing when I see anybody being rude. Why should moderators be exempt? People in positions of autority usually aren't above the laws they enforce. Is that different here? Are moderators really so darned offended when we ask them questions about their job? You make it appear as if inquiries are really condamnations. They aren't. Anybody who thinks that is being paranoid.

 

As you youtrself just said, we're not perfect. Your comment about finding another forum is unfair too. It reminds me of those people who say If you don't like America then why don't you leave? The purpose of this thread is to end my inquery into the subject, not to bash moderators. I've already stated this.

 

In post #13 I wrote

But please don't get me wrong. I love the moderators here. I really do. They do a wonderful job and I am now taking the opportunity to express that sentiment.

 

In post #21 I wrote

For the most part the moderators are really wonderful and I admire them. This forum's moderators beat out other forum moderators.

 

Is this what you're complaining about? Are you pissed off because I admire the moderators as a whole?

 

My real concern here pertains to a couple PMs I got from a moderator who insulted me in them. First the moderator sends me a PM complaining about a PM I sent to another member for being rude and then the same moderator is rude to me because I happen to experience emotions deeply. I've always been that way and its not as if I have a switch where I can turn it off.

 

Please tell us, other than handing over the entire forum to you, is there any way that you can stop complaining?

Sure. Stop exagerating and putting words into people's mouths and if someone thanks you or tells you that they admire you, don't complain about it. How's that for starters?

Edited July 9, 2012 by pmb

[CaptainPanic]

Why should moderators be exempt? People in positions of autority usually aren't above the laws they enforce. Is that different here? Are moderators really so darned offended when we ask them questions about their job? You make it appear as if inquiries are really condamnations. They aren't. Anybody who thinks that is being paranoid.

The generalization and suggestion that we're constantly abusing our powers makes me want to prove you right.

 

A few questions is fine, and although I cannot be bothered to look it up, I am sure we answered those initial questions patiently and politely. But seriously, you just never stop. And that's what makes us annoyed. You have 94 (!) posts in the Suggestions, Comments and Support section. More than most staff members in fact. I think "asking questions about their job" is quite an understatement.

 

We're doing our jobs to the best of our abilities, and from all observations I've made so far on the internet, this is a friendly place... but even the near-perfect mods of SFN have their limits. And 94 posts with questions about their jobs is very very near that limit.

 

And a few compliments in between the questions don't change my opinion.

[pmb]

The generalization and suggestion that we're constantly abusing our powers makes me want to prove you right.

I don't understand why you keep putting words into my mouth? I never suggested that moderators generally abuse their powers. I wouldn't even believe it someone claimed it.

 

A few questions is fine, ..

And that's all I asked, i.e. I only asked two questions about it.

 

and although I cannot be bothered to look it up, I am sure we answered those initial questions patiently and politely.

That's correct. They were.

 

But seriously, you just never stop.

Again with the exageration? Why do you keep doing that? You are quite wrong in yoru accusation that I never stop. As far as I'm concerned I only had two questions. One in the "reputation system" thread and one here. Both of them was addressed to my satisfaction. The one here was addressed back at ppst #8. After that I've just been disuading false accusations.

 

This whole time I merely inquired into it twice.

 

And that's what makes us annoyed. You have 94 (!) posts in the Suggestions, Comments and Support section. More than most staff members in fact. I think "asking questions about their job" is quite an understatement.

You're taking this out of context. You make it appear as if I was complaining about the moderators 94 times. I didn't. First off that thread was about me. I.e. in post #1 the OP wrote, in part

People like... pmb who is very capable of talking about scientfic ''things'' and helping people. No doubt he has dedicated a lot of time to answer people but you take one look on his personal profile and you see he has a negative reputation. Any outsider would look at that and think he is... unreliable, contrary to him being a physicist.

That's the first post in that thread where my name came up. I didn't even post until post #48. And I didn't mention moderators in that post. I only chimed in about moderators when a moderator criticized my use of the rep system. It seems I may have misunderstood them though.

 

We're doing our jobs to the best of our abilities, and from all observations I've made so far on the internet, this is a friendly place... but even the near-perfect mods of SFN have their limits. And 94 posts with questions about their jobs is very very near that limit.

That was mere polite discussion about moderation. Don't get your panties in a knot over it.

 

In the mean time I plan on going through all of those posts in that thread and examine how many of them were actually me commenting on moderators. I'll get back to ou after that.

 

In the mean time I once again ask you to please stop exagerating. It gives off a false impression.

[Greg H.]

That was mere polite discussion about moderation. Don't get your panties in a knot over it.

 

As a friendly word of advice, telling a moderator not to get his panties in a knot when you're questioning the way in which they do their jobs - not a good idea.

 

That's a bit like punching a cop and daring him to tase you.

[pmb]

As a friendly word of advice, telling a moderator not to get his panties in a knot when you're questioning the way in which they do their jobs - not a good idea.

What can I say? I was frustrated at his wild accusations and him getting all flustered about something that appears only to have happened in his mind and not in reality.

 

For example:

 

CaptainPanic - I reviewed my contribution in the most recent thread in the suggestions section, i.e. the one about the rep-system. You claimed that I have 94 (!) posts in the Suggestions, Comments and Support section. I have no way to verify and examine those posts to see what they were about. So what I did was to examine the thread I knew about, i.e. the one about the "reputation system" thread.

 

Here is what I found - Out of the 272 posts in that thread I created 31 of them. That accounts for 31 of the 94 posts you mentioned. Out of those 31 posts only 4 of them contained comments about modertors. Out of those 4 posts about moderators, one of them was about you in which I said (in post #238) CaptainPanic deserves an accomadation for the way he moderates. The other moderators should take him as guiding post.

 

That really doesn't come off as your comment seems to suggest. It therefore you seem to have taken things out of context. Refering to things that perhaps happened months ago and which may not have anything to do with negative comments about moderation. I'd wager that the other posts of mine in that section are about the subject of ad hominems. I don't ever recall why I put it in that section. Probably because it didn't seem to go into the other sections.

Edited July 9, 2012 by pmb

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

CaptainPanic - I reviewed my contribution in that the more recent thread in the suggestions etc. section. You claimed that I have 94 (!) posts in the Suggestions, Comments and Support section. I have no way to verify and examine those posts to see what they were about. So what I did was to examine the thread I knew about, i.e. the one about the "reputation system" thread.

Suggestions, Comments and Support is listed as your most active forum in the left column of your profile:

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/user/70237-pmb/

[swansont]

As a friendly word of advice, telling a moderator not to get his panties in a knot when you're questioning the way in which they do their jobs - not a good idea.

 

That's a bit like punching a cop and daring him to tase you.

 

I think that's not as big of a deal as you portray. If you don't have a thicker skin than that you probably don't have the temperament to be a mod, and besides, that cop/mod wouldn't do the tasing. It would be another one, who is not involved in the fracas, if at all possible.

 

However, complaining about rudeness and then making a statement like that? Priceless.

[Greg H.]

I think that's not as big of a deal as you portray. If you don't have a thicker skin than that you probably don't have the temperament to be a mod, and besides, that cop/mod wouldn't do the tasing. It would be another one, who is not involved in the fracas, if at all possible.

 

However, complaining about rudeness and then making a statement like that? Priceless.

 

You make a good point. Personally, I don't have the impartiality necessary to do either of those two jobs (moderate or police).

[Appolinaria]

Is a lion not king of the plain? A dog, his yard? But morality, justice, they are bound by no corral. To be rich in jewels not made of stone- to flick onto the ground, logic itself- like a dead fly.

 

 

 

 

Take solace, my friend. Let the children play. The judge's hammer is not made of steel, nor wood- for it's weight cannot be measured.