Taxes, are we ready for these new ones?

[rigney]

I'd be very surprised if the politicians have to search for these jobs. I bet they're being invited by the companies all the time. It's the companies that seek to get more influence in the politics - not the politicians who want to get rich. This happens on local/state and federal scale (and also in other countries). For a large company, it's peanuts to pay a few thousands/millions to a congresman. And if you employ the congresman, this is not considered bribing. It's completely legal.

 

About the founding fathers... I had a quick look around, and I found that Thomas Jefferson had at least one side job too. While he was also the president of the USA, he was also the president of the American Philosophical Society. I'm not sure if that made him rich or not, but it shows that they probably didn't care too much about side jobs.

I searched an couldn't find anything that even suggested he collected pay while with the APS. If you finnd anything to the contrary, please let me know. Edited July 23, 2012 by rigney

[ydoaPs]

I searched an couldn't find anything that even suggested he collected pay while with the APS. If you finnd anything to the contrary, please let me know.

 

Is the link you say was taken out of context? If so would you explain?

 

I mean in the 56 seconds of extremely reasonable (and factual, btw) talking, his opponents take 2 seconds entirely out of the context and try to make him sound unreasonable.

[Phi for All]

Is the link you say was taken out of context? If so would you explain?

What you quoted made it sound like Obama was saying the business owners didn't build their businesses. That's not what he meant.

 

He was really saying that business owners didn't build the highways and other infrastructure items paid for by tax dollars, that they didn't educate their own workers in public schools, that they didn't get where they are simply because they worked hard and were smart. Everyone in our system today was helped by that system in one way or another.

[rigney]

I mean in the 56 seconds of extremely reasonable (and factual, btw) talking, his opponents take 2 seconds entirely out of the context and try to make him sound unreasonable.

Would you give me the "unedited version" of this video? I'll watch every moment of it. The truth is what counts. i was only comparing apples and oranges of the Obama and Romney speeches. Edited July 23, 2012 by rigney

[ydoaPs]

What you quoted made it sound like Obama was saying the business owners didn't build their businesses. That's not what he meant.

 

He was really saying that business owners didn't build the highways and other infrastructure items paid for by tax dollars, that they didn't educate their own workers in public schools, that they didn't get where they are simply because they worked hard and were smart. Everyone in our system today was helped by that system in one way or another.

 

It's kind of ironic that this bit is being taken out of context, since what he was saying is essentially that you need to put your success in context.

 

When i hear our president reply to a small business owner who probably worked his ass of to get the business started; by castigating and saying to him: "You didn't build that business, the people who work for you did", I'd like to kick him straight to the gonads, and hard! What a fukkin' idiot.

 

There you go. I quoted your entire post. You took the only two seconds of his entirely reasonable and factual talking and tried to make him sound unreasonable. Context matters. Listen to the entire speech, not just the two seconds you want to hear.

[rigney]

It's kind of ironic that this bit is being taken out of context, since what he was saying is essentially that you need to put your success in context.

 

 

 

There you go. I quoted your entire post. You took the only two seconds of his entirely reasonable and factual talking and tried to make him sound unreasonable. Context matters. Listen to the entire speech, not just the two seconds you want to hear.

There you go what? Just the two seconds I wanted to understand and you put it into your prespective. Let me put it this way, BS is BS whether it's 50 seconds or an hour. An English teacher who was also a good friend, once told me; Rigney, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull shit! That was 60 years ago, and pas·sé verbiage, even for that date and time. Edited July 23, 2012 by rigney

[ydoaPs]

There you go what? Just the two seconds I wanted to understand and you put it into your prespective. Let me put it this way, BS is BS whether it's 50 seconds or an hour. An English teacher who was also a good friend, once told me; Rigney, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull shit! That was 60 years ago, and pas·sé verbiage, even for that date and time.

 

So context is irrelevant? Listen to the video again and tell me what he said that was untrue. Tell me how success comes in a vacuum.

 

Oh, and since you think context doesn't matter, I think I might put this in my sig:

 

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull shit!

[rigney]

So context is irrelevant? Listen to the video again and tell me what he said that was untrue. Tell me how success comes in a vacuum.

 

Oh, and since you think context doesn't matter, I think I might put this in my sig:

I might tell you where you could also put it, but this has gone far enough.

[swansont]

OK, I watched the videos. My reaction to most of the first one is "meh, what's your point?" People get government assistance. The rest is the scare-mongering. I know people who were on government assistance when we were in grad school, because it's hard to get by on $8k a year (in the 90's), especially for a family. Of two I kept track of, one became a teacher and the other works at Boeing. They've likely paid back any amount of assistance they got, and then some. The huge rise lately is due to the economy being bad, not some conspiracy.

 

But the claim that being poor is the best investment one can make? Are you F-ing serious?

 

The second video: I know that congresscritters are exempt from insider trading laws and it's a travesty. But I checked the list. I can't check them all, but I did look at two of them. One was Tom Harkin, because he accounted for a large dollar value and more than 10% of the weight of the final result. Well, it turns out his wife works. She is on the board of Conoco-Phillips, and probably makes ten times (at least) what he does. All of the sudden their increase in net worth isn't so dubious. I also looked at Obama. He made several million over that span from sales of the book he wrote. Again, nothing to do with any shady manipulation of the market.

 

So: what was your point?

 

There you go what? Just the two seconds I wanted to understand and you put it into your prespective. Let me put it this way, BS is BS whether it's 50 seconds or an hour. An English teacher who was also a good friend, once told me; Rigney, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull shit! That was 60 years ago, and pas·sé verbiage, even for that date and time.

 

What, exactly, is BS about it? It's not enough to just say it's crap. Do business owners not take advantage of roads and bridges? What?

[ydoaPs]

I might tell you where you could also put it, but this has gone far enough.

 

 

So context is suddenly important? Make up your mind.

[rigney]

OK, I watched the videos. My reaction to most of the first one is "meh, what's your point?" People get government assistance. The rest is the scare-mongering. I know people who were on government assistance when we were in grad school, because it's hard to get by on $8k a year (in the 90's), especially for a family. Of two I kept track of, one became a teacher and the other works at Boeing. They've likely paid back any amount of assistance they got, and then some. The huge rise lately is due to the economy being bad, not some conspiracy.

 

But the claim that being poor is the best investment one can make? Are you F-ing serious?

 

The second video: I know that congresscritters are exempt from insider trading laws and it's a travesty. But I checked the list. I can't check them all, but I did look at two of them. One was Tom Harkin, because he accounted for a large dollar value and more than 10% of the weight of the final result. Well, it turns out his wife works. She is on the board of Conoco-Phillips, and probably makes ten times (at least) what he does. All of the sudden their increase in net worth isn't so dubious. I also looked at Obama. He made several million over that span from sales of the book he wrote. Again, nothing to do with any shady manipulation of the market.

 

So: what was your point?

 

What, exactly, is BS about it? It's not enough to just say it's crap. Do business owners not take advantage of roads and bridges? What?

Let's just wait until after November. This race has gone far enough. Mañana! Edited July 23, 2012 by rigney

[ydoaPs]

Rigney about the Jews:

 

This race has gone far enough.

 

 

Isn't taking things out of context fun?

[rigney]

Rigney about the Jews: Isn't taking things out of context fun?

If that's the way you see it, yes. Edited July 23, 2012 by rigney

[Phi for All]

There you go what? Just the two seconds I wanted to understand and you put it into your prespective.

I think you're still listening to that 2 seconds where you thought you heard him say that business owners didn't build their businesses. He's saying that none of us would have had an easy time of it without the American system, the roads, the libraries, the schools, all of it. You seem to support all those things, but you claim it's bullshit when Obama points it out. I don't get it, rigney.

[john5746]

Let's just wait until after November. This race has gone far enough. Mañana!

 

No man is an island, pretty obvious. Nobody can become a multi-millionaire on an island by themselves. They need to leverage the resources around them, the skilled workforce, the infrastructure, even the military helps. It also helps when you father was wealthy and your cult is wealthy and you are a tax cheat with monies in every loophole known and unknown and it also helps if you lack empathy for those less fortunate than yourself. Just ask anyone on Wall Street.

 

Go ahead and make up stuff in your head about Obama. I know you have to demonize him so that you feel better about voting for Mitt.

 

 

By the way, Mitt in the video below from 1:45 to 1:57 only thanks other people for Olympians' achievements. No need to watch the rest of the video, bs is bs.

 

[swansont]

Go ahead and make up stuff in your head about Obama. I know you have to demonize him so that you feel better about voting for Mitt.

 

I suspect that's precisely it.

[ydoaPs]

I was just watching FOX where they were still harping on this quote mine. They brought on two children who made a lemonade business expecting them to cry or something when they played the clip. The girls agreed with Obama!

[swansont]

Here's a little story on Romney's response ad, from the owner of Gilchrist Metal Fabricating, who claims he (and his father) built their business on their own

 

1) In 1999, the company received $800,000 in tax-exempt revenue bonds “to set up a second manufacturing plant and purchase equipment to produce high definition television broadcasting equipment.”

 

2) In the 1980s , Gilchrist Metal Fabricating obtained a U.S. Small Business Administration loan of around $500,000

 

3) Gilchrist Metal Fabricating has received several sub-contracts. Last year, a sub-contract from the U.S. Navy totaling about $83,000 and a smaller, $5,600 from the Coast Guard

 

just to name a few………….

 

Oh, THAT help!

 

http://freakoutnation.com/2012/07/23/hey-mitt-romney-when-is-building-it-without-help-not-building-it-without-help/

 

That, in addition to the roads, and the education of his workers, etc.

[rigney]

Here's a little story on Romney's response ad, from the owner of Gilchrist Metal Fabricating, who claims he (and his father) built their business on their own

 

 

 

http://freakoutnation.com/2012/07/23/hey-mitt-romney-when-is-building-it-without-help-not-building-it-without-help/

 

That, in addition to the roads, and the education of his workers, etc.

Utterly nauseating to watch and/or listen. However, the following link will give you something to think about come January.

Remember Bush seniors remark, Read my lips, No new taxes? Sound familiar? Hmmm!

http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home

Edited July 24, 2012 by rigney

[swansont]

Utterly nauseating to watch and/or listen. However, the following link will give you something to think about come January.

Remember Bush seniors remark, Read my lips, No new taxes? Sound familiar? Hmmm!

http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home

 

The link says it only applies to "high income" families. And that seems perfectly in accord with the promise. So, what's your point? That the GOP blog is run by idiots, or that they hope their readers are idiots?

 

Since you are not keeping your promise of waiting until November, how about addressing the items I brought up.

[rigney]

The link says it only applies to "high income" families. And that seems perfectly in accord with the promise. So, what's your point? That the GOP blog is run by idiots, or that they hope their readers are idiots?

Nothing more than the blathering garbage I also hear and read from the left.

Since you are not keeping your promise of waiting until November, how about addressing the items I brought up.

It was just one little nibble and I could hardly keep from helping myself to it. This comes from snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp Edited July 24, 2012 by rigney

[Moontanman]

It was just one little nibble and I could hardly keep from helping myself to it. This comes from snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

 

 

Rigney, please elaborate on what you think this means...

[swansont]

It was just one little nibble and I could hardly keep from helping myself to it. This comes from snopes. http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp

 

And snopes agrees that the GOP website is lying and that Obama's promise will not be violated. Is that what you meant?

[rigney]

And snopes agrees that the GOP website is lying and that Obama's promise will not be violated. Is that what you meant?

No! Only that there is enough BS streaming from both sides to make anything believable.

[ydoaPs]

Remember Bush seniors remark, Read my lips, No new taxes? Sound familiar? Hmmm!

http://www.gop.gov/blog/10/04/08/obamacare-flatlines-obamacare-taxes-home

 

You mean the George H W Bush who actually DID raise taxes and recently said "The circumstances change and you can’t be wedded to some formula by Grover Norquist. It’s -- who the hell is Grover Norquist, anyway?"? Or do you mean a different one?

 

No! Only that there is enough BS streaming from both sides to make anything believable.

 

There's clearly orders of magnitude of difference in the amounts of BS coming from each side. Even fact checking sites that go out of their way to bend over backward to try to make it even can't do so.