MrAndrew1337 Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 This is a true convorsation that happened in a class I was in a year or two ago. I quoted it as best I could. Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, you believe in GOD ? Student : Absolutely, sir. Professor : Is GOD good ? Student : Sure. Professor: Is GOD all powerful ? Student : Yes. Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm? (Student was silent.) Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good? Student : Yes. Professor: Is satan good ? Student : No. Professor: Where does satan come from ? Student : From … GOD … Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct? Student : Yes. Professor: So who created evil ? (Student did not answer.) Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, who created them ? (Student had no answer.) Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD? Student : No, sir. Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD? Student : No , sir. Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter? Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t. Professor: Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : Nothing. I only have my faith. Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Professor: Yes. Student : And is there such a thing as cold? Professor: Yes. Student : No, sir. There isn’t. (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.) Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.) Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness? Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you? Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ? Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how? Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.) Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class was in uproar.) Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain? (The class broke out into laughter. ) Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.) Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son. Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving. -12
ecoli Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Well you're probably lying about over hearing this, since this exact text shows up all over the internet. But anyway, I fixed the story for you: Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, you believe in Fluffy pink elephants ? Student : Absolutely, sir. Professor : Are Fluffy pink elephants good ? Student : Sure. Professor: Are Fluffy pink elephants all powerful ? Student : Yes. Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to Fluffy pink elephants to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But Fluffy pink elephants didn’t. How is thAre Fluffy pink elephants good then? Hmm? (Student was silent.) Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Are Fluffy pink elephants good? Student : Yes. Professor: Is the Easter Bunny good ? Student : No. Professor: Where does the Easter Bunny come from ? Student : From … Fluffy pink elephants … Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And Fluffy pink elephants did make everything. Correct? Student : Yes. Professor: So who created evil ? (Student did not answer.) Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, who created them ? (Student had no answer.) Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen Fluffy pink elephants? Student : No, sir. Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your Fluffy pink elephants? Student : No , sir. Professor: Have you ever felt your Fluffy pink elephants, tasted your Fluffy pink elephants, smelt your Fluffy pink elephants? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Fluffy pink elephants for that matter? Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t. Professor: Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your Fluffy pink elephants doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : Nothing. I only have my faith. Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Professor: Yes. Student : And is there such a thing as cold? Professor: Yes. Student : No, sir. There isn’t. (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.) Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.) Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness? Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you? Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ? Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how? Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good Fluffy pink elephants and a bad Fluffy pink elephants. You are viewing the concept of Fluffy pink elephants as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.) Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class was in uproar.) Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain? (The class broke out into laughter. ) Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.) Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on science, son. Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & Fluffy pink elephants is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving. 8
ydoaPs Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 This is a true convorsation that happened in a class I was in a year or two ago. I quoted it as best I could. Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, you believe in GOD ? Student : Absolutely, sir. Professor : Is GOD good ? Student : Sure. Professor: Is GOD all powerful ? Student : Yes. Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm? (Student was silent.) Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good? Student : Yes. Professor: Is satan good ? Student : No. Professor: Where does satan come from ? Student : From … GOD … Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct? Student : Yes. Professor: So who created evil ? (Student did not answer.) Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, who created them ? (Student had no answer.) Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD? Student : No, sir. Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD? Student : No , sir. Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter? Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t. Professor: Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : Nothing. I only have my faith. Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Professor: Yes. Student : And is there such a thing as cold? Professor: Yes. Student : No, sir. There isn’t. (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.) Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.) Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness? Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you? Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ? Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how? Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.) Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class was in uproar.) Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain? (The class broke out into laughter. ) Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.) Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son. Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving. AND THE STUDENT WAS EINSTEIN!!!!!!!!1111!!!!1!!!!!! Lying isn't a very good way to support your cause. 1
Iota Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) That pointless story has been written in the form of a HYPOTHETICAL debate between a religious believer and an atheist scientist. Clearly, an opportunistic religious fanatic thought it contained undeniable logic of some sort and so slapped This is a true convorsation that happened in a class I was in a year or two ago. I quoted it as best I could. across the top, thinking that statement alone was proof of the debate actually happening. The type of person you could expect to spell 'conversation' wrongly. The debate itself is completely flawed, and it just so happens somebody else posted this on my Facebook news feed recently. I'm not passing you ridicule, or your belief, rather just what you posted. ...I'm an undecided Christian myself. Edited July 19, 2012 by Iota93 2
Phi for All Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Christianity: the Truth that's important enough to Lie about. 8
Greg H. Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Christianity: the Truth that's important enough to Lie about. You owe me a new keyboard Phi. I'll never get the Pepsi out of this one. 1
ACG52 Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 Why persist in quoting the op? It was old the first time it was posted, and copying it doesn't make it any better.
John Cuthber Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 For what it's worth, this tells you what happens when the same imaginary student meets a better imaginary prof. http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/brain.htm Incidentally, a good reason to quote it is so the OP can't change it and claim "That's not what I wrote". It seems pretty likely that, in this case, the OP is a liar. 3
Iota Posted July 19, 2012 Posted July 19, 2012 That pointless story has been written in the form of a HYPOTHETICAL debate Just thought I'd correct my shameful attempt at terminology, once again... 'figurative'... as opposed to hypothetical.
ydoaPs Posted July 23, 2012 Posted July 23, 2012 Why persist in quoting the op? It was old the first time it was posted, and copying it doesn't make it any better. In addition to what the others said about preserving the post, it also gives the quoted user a notification allowing them to know there's been a reply to their post. This seems to indicate (since the OP has yet to return to this thread) that the OP either has not logged on since the subsequent posts, or that the OP is avoiding this thread like it is the plague. This is a true convorsation that happened in a class I was in a year or two ago. I quoted it as best I could. Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, you believe in GOD ? Student : Absolutely, sir. Professor : Is GOD good ? Student : Sure. Professor: Is GOD all powerful ? Student : Yes. Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm? (Student was silent.) Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good? Student : Yes. Professor: Is satan good ? Student : No. Professor: Where does satan come from ? Student : From … GOD … Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct? Student : Yes. Professor: So who created evil ? (Student did not answer.) Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, who created them ? (Student had no answer.) Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD? Student : No, sir. Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD? Student : No , sir. Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter? Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t. Professor: Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : Nothing. I only have my faith. Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Professor: Yes. Student : And is there such a thing as cold? Professor: Yes. Student : No, sir. There isn’t. (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.) Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.) Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness? Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you? Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ? Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how? Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.) Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class was in uproar.) Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain? (The class broke out into laughter. ) Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.) Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son. Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.
dragonstar57 Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 This is a true convorsation that happened in a class I was in a year or two ago. I quoted it as best I could. Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, you believe in GOD ? Student : Absolutely, sir. Professor : Is GOD good ? Student : Sure. Professor: Is GOD all powerful ? Student : Yes. Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm? (Student was silent.) Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good? Student : Yes. Professor: Is satan good ? Student : No. Professor: Where does satan come from ? Student : From … GOD … Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct? Student : Yes. Professor: So who created evil ? (Student did not answer.) Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, who created them ? perfect so far the professor uses the "Whence Cometh Evil?" idea and then claims that god has to be the author of evil as he created everything and had the omniscience to know the future impact of his actions. this valid point is not dealt with by the student despite it being a very credible argument of god's nonexistence (Student had no answer.) Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD? Student : No, sir. Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD? Student : No , sir. Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter? Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t. Professor: Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : Nothing. I only have my faith. Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has. this can be a couple ways the most popular way is likely the "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" arguement which is valid. however the student takes the strict interpretation of this sentiment which is "anything not directly observable to my senses does not exist" which is ridiculous. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Professor: Yes. Student : And is there such a thing as cold? Professor: Yes. Student : No, sir. There isn’t. (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.) Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. cold is a relative term which talks about the average motion of molecules in a given substance if the average energy is low we call it cold if it is high we call it hot. to say cold is not the opposite of heat is like saying low is not the opposite of numbers. we can count downwards to 100 million below zero and never reach low, however low still has an opposite. just because it is not on a spectrum where you have low---number of units----middleground----same number of units----high doesn't mean that these things cannot be opposite (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.) Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness? Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you? um...what? if darkness is 0 than you could in theory have absolute darknes (just as you can have absolute zero in temperature) this line of reasoning might be compelling to you but to me this is nonsense and not even clear nonsense. either there is an absolute darkness in which case it exists or it is relative in which it exists Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ? Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how? Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. huh? did he just say death doesn't exist?as for seeing electricity if you are seeing this post electricity is real it produces real observable effects on our world and by seeing that we can not only know it exists we can even begin to understand its proprieties. same with magnetism. as for viewing god as something finite wtf does that even mean... Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. unless you look at life as some mystical glowing energy than life and death can be defined as "functioning or nonfluctuating" last i checked broken and working were opposite Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? this has been refuted so many times I won't waste my time. the evidence is there in spades from genetics to fossils to macro-evolution having been observed in bacteria and much more. (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.) Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class was in uproar.) Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain? (The class broke out into laughter. ) Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? and by the very same failed reasoning this student does not have a brain. (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.) Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son. Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving. Cogito ergo sum roughly translated it means "I think therefore I am" but to me it has a different meaning, to me it is a commentary on how little we know for 100% sure. in math you do proofs because somethings we know for sure like 1+1=2 however much about our physical world is up in the air. we don't know that what we experience is reality. we don't know others truly exist. for all you know no actual being was required in the typing of this post just as I do not know if you are truly a person who exists either. I don't "take it on faith" I make assumptions I assume that my senses do not deceive me. I assume that others do exist. I assume that my computer is not sending me false information. this is why in science a preponderance of evidence is required. faith is defined as believing without evidence we have evidence of the brain through a mountain of medical knowledge and we can observe activity in the professor that implies the presence of a brain (cognition, problem solving, heart beat etc) but on some level we are assuming that a brain is present so the question becomes not "prove god exists" but "show me a evidence that he does" and there is none. the inconsistencies between the bible's account of history and known history takes away from the bible's credibility as does inconsistencies between different parts of the bible. the illogical of the story of Jesus takes away from the bible's credibility the fact is when all things are considered god seems preposterous it wouldn't let me post before so here it is 2
dragonstar57 Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 and here is some of the counteractions cheers 4
afungusamongus Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Something more in line with what Christians teach would be. Professor : You are a Christian, aren't you, son ? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, you believe in GOD ? Student : Absolutely, sir. Professor : Is GOD good ? Student : Sure. Professor: Is GOD all powerful ? Student : Yes. Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn't. How is this GOD good then? Hmm? Student should have said... God calls us all to judgment. Sometimes he calls the shots in a way we don't like. He is after all the author of life. Professor: You can't answer, can you ? Let's start again, young fella. Is GOD good? Student : Yes. Professor: Is satan good ? Student : No. Professor: Where does satan come from ? Student : From the fallen nature of man and our willingness to go against his will. Professor: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world? Student : Yes. Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn't it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct? Student : Yes. Professor: So who created evil ? Student: It is a byproduct of him giving us free will. Unfortunately if we are given free will we can do wrong things even though he forbades us to do so and would be well pleased if none of us did it. Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they? Student : Yes, sir. Professor: So, who created them ? Sickness may just be a by product of how we are made. For Immorality and Hatred see the answer four sentences up Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD? Student : No, sir. My senses are inadequate to perceive immaterial object like Gods Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD? Student : No , sir, but I have read his two Testaments. It was written by people who did have a direct revelation. Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter? Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't. That is the philosophical position called verificationism Prof and has been regarded as self refuting as it is philosophical constructs and indeed not perceivable by any of our senses, hence self refuting. Professor: Yet you still believe in Him? Student : Yes. Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Student : But according philosophical protocol he does. Saying God exist is a philosophical assertion and uses the philosophical method to prove it's validity. Hard to hear that other fields may also uncover truth I know, but it remains true. Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has. Student: No that is the problem atheist have. They are not one and the same. The rest was just hogwash anyway. Edited August 21, 2012 by afungusamongus
Moontanman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Something more in line with what Christians teach would be. The rest was just hogwash anyway. Yes, hand waving is a great way to get your point across, please provide some evidence other than your inability to understand...
imatfaal Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 ! Moderator Note Guys, let's not have a head banging contest here - the student teacher dialogue can be developed in many different ways; religious, rationalist, scientific etc. and they are all pretty unconvincing. They tend to be self-reinforcing rather than persuasive. So could we at least have it made clear what afungusamongus was adding to the dialogue - it was all in a quote so I didn't know if you were adding anything to it, or just writing it all off as hogwash; could you do us a favour and make it clear what your changes were, if any. And, from both sides, can we have less automatic gainsaying of opinions and points of argument; and more structured debate backed by evidence, logic, or philosophy.
afungusamongus Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Just for reference I meant that this is not what Christians claim and I do not see how this is any bearing on what Atheist claim. The first part was a bunch of good questions, but this seems rather not what Christians claim and not very good at responding to what atheist claim Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has. Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat? Professor: Yes. Student : And is there such a thing as cold? Professor: Yes. Student : No, sir. There isn't. (The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.) Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it. (There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.) Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness? Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness? Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you? Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ? Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed. Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how? Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey? Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do. Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.) Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher? (The class was in uproar.) Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain? (The class broke out into laughter. ) Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir? (The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.) Professor: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son. Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving. Also it holds a incomplete view of what Christians hold faith to be. If anyone is interested we can discuss that in another thread. Also reviewing this part again hogwash may have been a bit strong. Edited August 21, 2012 by afungusamongus
Phi for All Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Something more in line with what Christians teach would be. Just for reference I meant that this is not what Christians claim [snip] but this seems rather not what Christians claim and not very good at responding to what atheist claim Also it holds a incomplete view of what Christians hold faith to be. Considering there are over 9000 different recognized Christian sects, I would be careful about making blanket generalized statements about what Christians claim. And since atheism isn't a belief system, generalizing about what atheists claim is also fallacious reasoning. Don't you think the author of the original Professor/Student exchange would call him/herself a Christian? 1
dragonstar57 Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 Just for reference I meant that this is not what Christians claim and I do not see how this is any bearing on what Atheist claim. The first part was a bunch of good questions, but this seems rather not what Christians claim and not very good at responding to what atheist claim hogwash may have been a bit strong. no hogwash is an extreme understatement and if someone actually tried it this argument would get annihilated without distracting the professor enough to forget to give homework
Moontanman Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 I'd like to add that just because you think you've witnessed god doesn't make it real either...
Ben Banana Posted August 25, 2012 Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Oh yes, and just because 'God' is a completely arbitrary, and even ridiculous concept brought by your (possibly imposed) religious involvement "doesn't mean he isn't there." It's all dependent on your willingness to continue the game of asserting such a being in existence. That's actually not faith. Edited August 25, 2012 by Ben Bowen
dragonstar57 Posted August 28, 2012 Posted August 28, 2012 I would like to add that just because their is a book written by scientifically illiterate (and largely literally illiterate) desert dwelling peasants does not prove god either anymore than the Iliad proves Poseidon. we have to acknowledge a big chunk of why people are religious is because they were told that god exists by their parents and like Santa that was all they needed to disregard logic and believe blindly. 1
seriously disabled Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) This argument is faulty for several reasons. It cannot be expected that we believe in things that we cannot see nor hear. If I can never see or hear something then I have good reasons to believe it isn't there. The same goes for God or Gods. There is no shred of proof that any Gods exist except in the imagination of errant men. People are naturally afraid of death so they invent Gods to comfort their panic fear of the finality of death. However that doesn't mean that any fabricated Gods actually exist in the real world. Death I'm afraid, is final, and no imaginary Gods are going to change that. Edited December 9, 2012 by seriously disabled
MrAndrew1337 Posted June 16, 2016 Author Posted June 16, 2016 I've returned to admit what many people already said in this thread. I DID NOT witness this conversation, obviously. I am a liar. 2
John Cuthber Posted June 16, 2016 Posted June 16, 2016 This is a true convorsation that happened in a class I was in a year or two ago. I quoted it as best I could. Proverbs 6 16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: ... Proverbs 6 19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. 1
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