Imagine what life could be in some higher dimension?

[Alan McDougall]

Could we imagine what life could be like in some higher dimension or other?

 

I know about the two-dimensional flatland man supposed dimension, we can imagine that dimension because we look at it from a three dimensional point of view. Imagining what a higher dimension is like to those who exist in one is more difficult.

 

Edited July 19, 2012 by Alan McDougall

[Schrödinger's hat]

Fun concept to play with:

I find these help the imagination a bit.

https://launchpad.net/4dtris/

http://www.urticator.net/maze/

Unfortunately it's quite hard to wrap your head around anything more complicated than simple rectangular type rooms/object. Also what you are viewing is a 2d projection of a 3d projection (or 3d slice) of a 4d scene.

There are plenty of animations around youtube in a similar vein.

 

Edit: Also worth noting is that these are euclidean spaces. There are other possible geometries, 4d (flat) spacetime is one (minkowskian rather than euclidean) and is dissimilar enough that you still have to do a fair bit of work to imagine it once you get the 4d euclidean thing.

 

On a more serious note, there are some things which are kinda special to 3d. It's the lowest dimension in which you can have a hollow thing with two openings (in 2d if you try to have a tube through the middle so you can digest, you instead have two objects).

Stable orbits don't work very well in other numbers of dimensions (i cannot remember if it's all other dimensions or just all low numbers) so we likely wouldn't have a universe full of swirly stuff.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Schrödinger's hat

[imatfaal]

I learnt how to do rubics cube in 4 dimensions - I will see if I can dig out the applet/site, it was beautifully implemented

[Moontanman]

I've tried to find out about this and I can't seem to remember where I read it but for some reason it was postulated that beings in a universe with 4 spatial dimensions would have to have six eyes to be able to see the 4d equivalent of depth perception.... I thought it was a book but it might have been a magazine of some kind...

[juanrga]

It is difficult to say.

 

In a higher dimensional space (N-dimensions) the forces do not fall as in the inverse square law but are [math]\propto 1/r^{N-1}[/math]. Probably this would imply smaller living beings.

 

Probability of a collision is proportional to number of dimensions (collision in a line is more probable than in a plane). This implies rates of biomolecular processes is smaller and this affect metabolism. Moreover, a smaller probability to met with another object in a higher dimensional space would have consequences for functions as sexual reproduction and the search of aliment.

 

As Moontanman notices depth perception would require more than 2 eyes. Also light intensity intensity follows an inverse-square behaviour in out universe. A higher dimensional universe would be more obscure and not only more eyes but more greater and sensible would be needed.

 

Of course this is all speculation.

[Alan McDougall]

It is difficult to say.

 

In a higher dimensional space (N-dimensions) the forces do not fall as in the inverse square law but are [math]\propto 1/r^{N-1}[/math]. Probably this would imply smaller living beings.

 

Probability of a collision is proportional to number of dimensions (collision in a line is more probable than in a plane). This implies rates of biomolecular processes is smaller and this affect metabolism. Moreover, a smaller probability to met with another object in a higher dimensional space would have consequences for functions as sexual reproduction and the search of aliment.

 

As Moontanman notices depth perception would require more than 2 eyes. Also light intensity intensity follows an inverse-square behaviour in out universe. A higher dimensional universe would be more obscure and not only more eyes but more greater and sensible would be needed.

 

Of course this is all speculation.

 

Very iintelligent speculation!

[PaulS1950]

I knew it! spiders are from the 5th dimension - they have eight eyes with which to percive depth in 5 dimensions.

[Alan McDougall]

I knew it! spiders are from the 5th dimension - they have eight eyes with which to percive depth in 5 dimensions.

 

 

Maybe thelaws of physics might be the same if the fundamental particles interacted asthey do in our 3d reality Or if you lived on a four-dimensional Earth in afour-dimensional universe you'd might notice that your table might need tenmote strange legs, how would you hear, seer anything crisply, and would theperiodic table of the elements be seriously rearranged

 

How would the orbit of the earth differ, would everything be closer and move faster?

 

Sculpture of a shadow of a four dimensional objectAbove is a sculpture designed by Penn State professor of mathematics Adrian Ocneanu (http://science.psu.edu/news-and-events/2005-news/math10-2005.htm/), which measures about six feet in every direction, presents the three-dimensional "shadow" of a four-dimensional solid object. Ocneanu's sculpture similarly maps four-dimensional solid into a space perceptible to the human observer. His process, radial stereography, presents a new way of making this projection. He explained the process by analogy to mapping a globe of the Earth onto a flat surface.

"Four-dimensional models are useful for thinking about and finding new relationships and phenomena," said Ocneanu. "The process is actually quite simple- think in one dimension less." To explain this concept, he points to the two-dimensional map of the three-dimensional world. The interview with the professor and the overview of the sculpture can be found here

 

 

(

)

 

 

Edited July 20, 2012 by Alan McDougall

[roscojones]

Could we imagine what life could be like in some higher dimension or other?

 

I know about the two-dimensional flatland man supposed dimension, we can imagine that dimension because we look at it from a three dimensional point of view. Imagining what a higher dimension is like to those who exist in one is more difficult.

 

To begin with, I do attempt to incorporate the non-physical side of reality as part of my viewpoints on this subject. Many of these are only theorized on my part and are not to be considered as statements of fact. The 4D/3D relationship is very similar to the 3D/2D relationship in Flatland. When the 3D sphere visits the 2D Flatland, the only portion visible is the 2D circle of intersection. The concept of "above" and "below" their plane of existence is completely foreign to them. Similarly, we in the 3D world view concepts of Heaven/Hell (the spiritual/non-physical) as existing above and below our reality, the 4D realm. I propose that our physical bodies are the portion of our 4D non-physical side that intersects with the 3D physical universe. We are multidimensional, just as the universe is, with lower dimensions embedded in the higher ones.

 

First we need to look at how we interact with our 3D reality. In our 3D world, consciously we are able to view things separated by physical distances. We can look at a beautiful landscape and focus on the parts that are of interest to us. We are usually capable of physically moving to locations, if we desire to do so. Also, all physical locations exist at the same time. NYC and LA both exist at the same time, even though we cannot see or be in both simultaneously. We can change locations, with the changes in location taking place over time, experienced in a linear form. Thus, for us reality is viewed to only exist in the fleeting moments of our experience. The past is done and gone/nonexistent, now a reality in our memories only. The future lies in a complex 4D probability wave (PW) function, that changes as the probability wave collapses universally with each of those fleeting moments of time. Individually, we each have the power to collapse our personal PW locally. Our actions select what probables become reality and those whose probability becomes zero. To some extent we rationalize our actions, while emotions/desires influence this reasoning process. We take actions to increase the probability of thing we desire and reduce that of those things we do not. When we have a goal with stronger emotional attachment, our actions will reflect this. Usually, the stronger the emotions, the higher the probability becomes. Emotions can bend worldlines, locally or globally. I feel that emotions may need to be included as quantum effect forces in the unified field theory.

 

In the 4D, the view of the landscape would be expanded temporally. The view would include the ability to see events, such as a baseball game, in their entirety all at once. This also includes all of the possible variations. Different pitchers and pitches, balls,strikes,hits,catches,batting lineups and so on. In Men in Black III, on of the characters talks of how he views reality in this manner. Time is no longer linear. Time becomes simultaneous in nature. Just as all possible physical locations exist simultaneously in the 3D universe, all possible temporal locations exist simultaneously in the 4D universe. Think a moment on this. All possible pasts, presents, and futures existing at the same time, simultaneously. That sure would change the understanding of how reincarnation works, eh? The reincarnation concept would have different lives, living in different times simultaneously. These different 3D lives are part of a 4D personality. Just as all the versions of ourselves as we grew up, form what we are today, the different lives are the "childhood" of the 4D personality they form.

 

Sorry I got a bit sidetracked on my comment.

If you wish to pursue further dialog along these lines let me know.

[Alan McDougall]

To begin with, I do attempt to incorporate the non-physical side of reality as part of my viewpoints on this subject. Many of these are only theorized on my part and are not to be considered as statements of fact. The 4D/3D relationship is very similar to the 3D/2D relationship in Flatland. When the 3D sphere visits the 2D Flatland, the only portion visible is the 2D circle of intersection. The concept of "above" and "below" their plane of existence is completely foreign to them. Similarly, we in the 3D world view concepts of Heaven/Hell (the spiritual/non-physical) as existing above and below our reality, the 4D realm. I propose that our physical bodies are the portion of our 4D non-physical side that intersects with the 3D physical universe. We are multidimensional, just as the universe is, with lower dimensions embedded in the higher ones.

 

First we need to look at how we interact with our 3D reality. In our 3D world, consciously we are able to view things separated by physical distances. We can look at a beautiful landscape and focus on the parts that are of interest to us. We are usually capable of physically moving to locations, if we desire to do so. Also, all physical locations exist at the same time. NYC and LA both exist at the same time, even though we cannot see or be in both simultaneously. We can change locations, with the changes in location taking place over time, experienced in a linear form. Thus, for us reality is viewed to only exist in the fleeting moments of our experience. The past is done and gone/nonexistent, now a reality in our memories only. The future lies in a complex 4D probability wave (PW) function, that changes as the probability wave collapses universally with each of those fleeting moments of time. Individually, we each have the power to collapse our personal PW locally. Our actions select what probables become reality and those whose probability becomes zero. To some extent we rationalize our actions, while emotions/desires influence this reasoning process. We take actions to increase the probability of thing we desire and reduce that of those things we do not. When we have a goal with stronger emotional attachment, our actions will reflect this. Usually, the stronger the emotions, the higher the probability becomes. Emotions can bend worldlines, locally or globally. I feel that emotions may need to be included as quantum effect forces in the unified field theory.

 

In the 4D, the view of the landscape would be expanded temporally. The view would include the ability to see events, such as a baseball game, in their entirety all at once. This also includes all of the possible variations. Different pitchers and pitches, balls,strikes,hits,catches,batting lineups and so on. In Men in Black III, on of the characters talks of how he views reality in this manner. Time is no longer linear. Time becomes simultaneous in nature. Just as all possible physical locations exist simultaneously in the 3D universe, all possible temporal locations exist simultaneously in the 4D universe. Think a moment on this. All possible pasts, presents, and futures existing at the same time, simultaneously. That sure would change the understanding of how reincarnation works, eh? The reincarnation concept would have different lives, living in different times simultaneously. These different 3D lives are part of a 4D personality. Just as all the versions of ourselves as we grew up, form what we are today, the different lives are the "childhood" of the 4D personality they form.

 

Sorry I got a bit sidetracked on my comment.

If you wish to pursue further dialog along these lines let me know.

 

Beautiful post, thank you!

 

I wrote the below in another thread but it seems to reflect what you said in your last chapter above.

 

I hope you dont find it silly but it just a theory of mine?

 

We never really reach a moment in time, just when we think we have the next moment is already there. There is always a blur at both ends no matter how close one observes them. I once wrote a short paper on the subject, however, I used an arrow and how it flies toward its target always a blur , I rationalized this by saying the movement of the arrow was like infinitely tiny frames on a movie reel, jumping between moments rather than a smooth flow through the air like the flow of a river.

 

 

 

If we stand still relative to the universe, time still moves, but once a person starts to move relative to the universe around them, time slows, this effect of course can only be seen in a meaningful way at colossal speeds approaching the of the speed of light.

 

Some physicists say, however, that there is no real"Arrow of Time" or that time flows smoothly like a river, but time is in reality infinity of separate infinitively tiny moments, extending back to the eternal past and into the eternal future, in both directions from the moment we exist in the present. To understand the theory of infinitely of moments making up the reality of the universe, think of a loaf of bread as the universe and each grain of wheat in the loaf (universe) as a moment or "Now" somewhere in the universe?.

 

 

 

The Left side of the loaf the moment of creation the right into the Infinite future

 

 

 

Loaf or universe

 

NOW ^

^

Big Bang=Past<.................................<NOW>.............................................................>Future>>>>>>>>

v

 

NOW v

 

 

 

Someone on the other side of the universe, directly opposite, could exist in very the same "NOW" moment as you are. Like slicing the loaf directly in front of you are linking with every other ""NOW" across the time frame you exist in across the whole universe Thus a universal "NOW"exist across the in the universe at that moment! However the very next moment the "NOW's" no longer agree and you must make another slice to see what is happening at the other end of the universe, because the "NOW' moments jump to different "NOWS" because of the effect of gravity, mass, speed and relativity.

 

However, if you were to slant your hypothetical knife to the left across the universe, which is towards the past from your vantage moment in time" you would hypothetically be able to view what, is going on in the "NOW"moment in the past for of the object you first viewed in the same moment or"NOW" that was in sync originally with your original moment or "NOW".

 

You would be looking at the past of the far off object. Your "NOW' and its "NOW" would differ in time and space. You would continue to exist in the ever-jumping subjective "NOW" but could look into the past of the object in its objective "NOW".

 

The same will happen if you took the hypothetical knife, sliced the loaf or universe to the right, toward the future, then you will be able to observe what is going on in the future of the objects "NOW" future.

 

Thus, every moment that has ever existed from the very beginning of its existence until its end be it heat death or infinite eternity past, to the present, to the infinite future still exists in our universe and the law's of physics cater for that fact

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

Edited August 2, 2012 by Alan McDougall

[uncool]

For one thing, the only orbits would be circles. The reason that orbits are stable in 3-D space is that the gravitational potential falls off more slowly than 1/r^2. When you get into 4-D space, the gravitational potential falls off at a rate of 1/r^2 exactly, and in higher-dimensional space, the gravitational potential falls off even more quickly. This leads to the only orbits being circles, and not just that, but those orbits are unstable - small changes in the orbit cause the planet to either go off to infinity or fall into the sun.

=Uncool-