DrP Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, zapatos said: Looks like the article was correct, OMG. I might expect that sort of story coming out of Iran or 'some other shithole country' - how is it legal to force a girl to marry without consent? To her rapist of all people. Barbaric and totally depressing. Do they not have pedophillia laws in Florida? Sorry - this is off topic - it just seemed to come up in the conversation. Lets drop it.
zapatos Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 34 minutes ago, DrP said: Being fair to all - I don't actually agree with this popular US bashing... I love America and Americans, I feel we have more in common with them and more comradery with them than we do with the Europeans. ... There are sliding scales.. not all Americans think the same nor do all EU citizens. How though do you wake people up when they are going headstrong in the wrong direction? The whole of the rest of the world (extreme Brexiteers aside) could see Trump for what he is - there are no surprises at all with what he says what sides he takes or what he comments about - no surprises about the nukes he drops.... but half of America still thinks he is great and has their best interests at heart. Probably because they didn't like being told what to do by a black man over the last 8 years. They would rather be conned by a rich and confident old white guy with a smile than be told what to do by a black man who tells them off for polluting and killing each other... because, er? BENGJAZIII!!! IRS!! KENYA!! MUSLIM!!! it is totally embarrassing. Not all Trump supporters or Brexiteers are racist... but ALL racists are Trump supporters and Brexiteers. Yes, it is. It's like having brother who pisses in public and stares at women's breasts. Totally embarrassing but you are stuck with him. 1
DrP Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, zapatos said: Yes, it is. It's like having brother who pisses in public and stares at women's breasts. Totally embarrassing but you are stuck with him. except this brother has the power to take the world into a MAD war and to make the lives of the poorest in the country worse and to take away their safety net of shared health insurance and to encourage kkk type groups to legitimacy. I'm off for a bit. Peace out. Have a good day. Off to try to cheer up a bit. lol - have work to do also. 1
zapatos Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 43 minutes ago, DrP said: OMG. I might expect that sort of story coming out of Iran or 'some other shithole country' - how is it legal to force a girl to marry without consent? To her rapist of all people. Barbaric and totally depressing. Do they not have pedophillia laws in Florida? Technically it was not without consent. Her mother said "you are going to marry him" and like a dutiful 11 year old she said "yes mother". No one knew about the rape except the families and the church leaders. This happened in the past and is just now coming to light as the girl recounts the story of what happened to her as a child. One of the reasons some object to raising the marriage age is because it will result in more out of wedlock births. Yes, in many ways we are still in 12th century Europe with respect to the power and influence of the church. But I digress and will now cease.
swansont Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 3 hours ago, zapatos said: That's what I thought, which is why I asked for some examples of America not following another country's lead, lest they appear weak, which you declined to provide. Similar sentiments. I never claimed to have examples of action for fear of appearing weak, just that I would not dismiss it outright, given the examples of acting on ideology instead of fact. You would have to ask the person who made the "weakness" claim for examples. 2 hours ago, zapatos said: Then why do you keep referring to the whole country as having a single attitude or trait? When it comes to official actions, a country has but one federal government, and the actions (or inactions) of that government can be referred to in this way, regardless of the opinions of its citizens. 2
John Cuthber Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, zapatos said: Technically it was not without consent. Her mother said "you are going to marry him" and like a dutiful 11 year old she said "yes mother". You need to revisit what the law says about consent. It's also not consent if, for example, he says "I will kill you if you don't let me..." It's not consent if she's not old enough to ... whatever... It just wasn't consensual. Meanwhile, back at the topic...
zapatos Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 The mother gave consent. 3 hours ago, swansont said: When it comes to official actions, a country has but one federal government, and the actions (or inactions) of that government can be referred to in this way, regardless of the opinions of its citizens. When it comes to the actions or words of certain private citizens, it is unreasonable to refer to the entire population as if they all share those actions or words.
Raider5678 Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 7 hours ago, dimreepr said: As long as you keep throwing up objections to legitimate suggestions of gun control (no-ones suggesting a ban BTW) without a legitimate reason Alright, quote me where I put up an objection without providing a reason and I'll provide my reasoning. 7 hours ago, DrP said: Pulling out of the Paris climate agreement? The whole world agreed to that. Now, it has to be re-negotiated - presumably costing millions to arrange for all to come up with something that will probably be exactly the same but worded differed, just so the USA don't feel like they are being pushed around. Great. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what penalties were there for not following the Paris climate agreement?
iNow Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 FFS, people. Anyway, now for an on-topic post. Trump seems as if he's working to pick some very low hanging fruit by supporting increased background checks and bans on bump stocks. Is directionally correct, but obviously not enough... nor do we even know whether congress will move it through for his signature.
Raider5678 Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, iNow said: FFS, people. But it's so much more productive to just rail on people and accuse them of things rather than discuss what is and isn't useful. In all seriousness though, absolutely.
Ten oz Posted February 20, 2018 Posted February 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, iNow said: FFS, people. Anyway, now for an on-topic post. Trump seems as if he's working to pick some very low hanging fruit by supporting increased background checks and bans on bump stocks. Is directionally correct, but obviously not enough... nor do we even know whether congress will move it through for his signature. It is interesting. He "ordered" the DOJ to ban bump stocks. It will take an act of Congress to actually change the law. So either Trump is trying to force Congress to act, is just doing this as a show and nothing will come of it, or he doesn't understand Congress is the one that must act. Only time will tell.
hypervalent_iodine Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 ! Moderator Note If everyone could please stick to the topic, it would be appreciated. 2
StringJunky Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, dimreepr said: You beat me to it.
koti Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, StringJunky said: You beat me to it. The way I see it, is the government should show up at his house with between 600 and 800 dolars in cash. I know its virtually impossible but thats what should be done. Respect for the guy in the film, too bad he’s most likely in the minority.
StringJunky Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, koti said: The way I see it, is the government should show up at his house with between 600 and 800 dolars in cash. I know its virtually impossible but thats what should be done. Respect for the guy in the film, too bad he’s most likely in the minority. Apparently, he has the 2nd Amendment tattooed as well, so that's quite a substantial gesture. Yes, buying them back would be better but that's a good symbolic gesture that people can doif they can afford to financially.
Ten oz Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 The" Man Saws AR 15" is excellent. It directly speaks to many of the arguments people in this very thread are making and exposes them as empty.Talking about what one would do if non-existing conditions existed almost always is just cover for doing nothing. Claiming that individual action is futile unless everyone forced to do the same is petty. Do the right thing for the right things sake alone is never the wrong option regardless of the black market, mental health, video games, and etc.
Raider5678 Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) I got a lot of respect for that dude, however, literally on just the last 5 pages, you guys were bashing people who owned guns because they're "Fun to shoot" as idiots, insane, and "Americans." If you don't believe me, I will gladly go back and quote each of you who said it. For some reason, I doubt that the thing that changed his mind was screaming those things and that this mans video will convince a lot more people to give up their guns because it's not coming from a position of attack, but a position of comradery(if that makes any sense). Another note is the man who just made the video, he committed a federal crime....... Edited February 21, 2018 by Raider5678
Ten oz Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, Raider5678 said: got a lot of respect for that dude, however, literally on just the last 5 pages, you guys were bashing people who owned guns because they're "Fun to shoot" as idiots, insane, and "Americans." If you don't believe me, I will gladly go back and quote each of you who said it. Please, show me where I associated "idiot", "insane", or "Americans" with "fun to shoot" in a post. That or you can be specific about who "you guys" refers to.
dimreepr Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, Ten oz said: Please, show me where I associated "idiot", "insane", or "Americans" with "fun to shoot" in a post. That or you can be specific about who "you guys" refers to. Puzzled me too.
swansont Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Raider5678 said: Another note is the man who just made the video, he committed a federal crime....... Which one?
zapatos Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Ten oz said: The" Man Saws AR 15" is excellent. It directly speaks to many of the arguments people in this very thread are making and exposes them as empty.Talking about what one would do if non-existing conditions existed almost always is just cover for doing nothing. Claiming that individual action is futile unless everyone forced to do the same is petty. Do the right thing for the right things sake alone is never the wrong option regardless of the black market, mental health, video games, and etc. I think individual action is a great idea. I would call on everyone here to purchase a gun from an individual (not a dealer) and cut the gun in half. That would remove guns from circulation and ensure people here are ready to take action and not just present empty words. Don't use conversation on this site about changes that are unlikely to happen as cover for doing nothing.
Ten oz Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, zapatos said: I think individual action is a great idea. I would call on everyone here to purchase a gun from an individual (not a dealer) and cut the gun in half. That would remove guns from circulation and ensure people here are ready to take action and not just present empty words. Don't use conversation on this site about changes that are unlikely to happen as cover for doing nothing. People buying assualt weapons and destroying them without an assualt weapons ban in place on Manufacturing would not lead to less assualt weapons in circulation. Rather it would lead to yet another market to sell assualt weapons in. The people destroying them market. I haven't actually called on anyone to give up guns or accessories they already have. Rather I have said gun enthusiast should stop buying more. Stop feeding the industry. To that end I am right there. I am not buying ammunition, targets, shooting glasses, and etc.
dimreepr Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, zapatos said: I think individual action is a great idea. I would call on everyone here to purchase a gun from an individual (not a dealer) and cut the gun in half. That would remove guns from circulation and ensure people here are ready to take action and not just present empty words. That's a great idea. My words can only ever be empty. 24 minutes ago, zapatos said: Don't use conversation on this site about changes that are unlikely to happen as cover for doing nothing. But if everyone just chopped one of their guns (even if they just bought another to do it) and #metoo maybe there would be enough political pressure to at least ban this type of weapon; a good start and who knows what may follow. Edited February 21, 2018 by dimreepr
zapatos Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ten oz said: People buying assualt weapons and destroying them without an assualt weapons ban in place on Manufacturing would not lead to less assualt weapons in circulation. Rather it would lead to yet another market to sell assualt weapons in. The people destroying them market. Forgive me, but that sounds a lot like "Talking about what one would do if non-existing conditions existed almost always is just cover for doing nothing." As I said, you should buy it from an individual, not a dealer. Preferably an individual who will not replace it. Shoot, buy it from some old lady who has one that used to belong to her dead husband. We need to stop making excuses for why things cannot get done, and find ways to do them.
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