Guns safety in home defence situations

[Moontanman]

That's just it, I'll bet the majority of gun owners have not had any kind of formal training or certification. I'd even go further and say that most guns are not kept properly safeguarded against children. I've heard people say that having a gun under lock and key is worthless when you have an intruder in your house.

 

Part of the problem with a lot of the studies is that it's hard to say whether having a gun actually saved a life, while killing someone with a gun definitely results in death. Do you know for sure that an intruder has murder on his mind?

 

Many gun owners say they don't care, that their property is worth defending with lethal force because they and their families are in harm's way. I'd be interested in the statistics showing how many unarmed intruders were shot because they had someone's stuff in their hands when they got caught.

 

It's a tough call. I would never want to risk killing someone just for stealing my stuff. On the other hand, I'd defend my life and my family's lives by any means if I knew we were in danger of losing them from armed intruders. I have guns I've trained with, but they're locked up, I don't keep them where I could get to them if I heard a bump in the night.

 

 

I am almost the opposite, I grew up in a culture of guns, but no formal training other than family members, the house had several shotguns, a couple of them loaded all the time. Yet we didn't lock our doors at night and the guns were never pulled out in anger that I ever saw. I asked my grandpa once why he didn't lock the doors, to be honest we were rather isolated, to get to the house required you cross the river on a boat or if the water was low a footlog, anyway he said that since everyone had guns and everyone knew it they wouldn't dare come in with out knocking. Several old hound dogs were his alarm system

 

Now I have to admit those guns were often used and in a hurry, run off crows, or shoot groundhogs, but I never saw a person threatened.

 

I do keep mine where I can get it immediately... childhood fear maybe?

[Phi for All]

I do keep mine where I can get it immediately... childhood fear maybe?

Not necessarily. If you have no kids in your house, having a gun close to hand can make you feel safer. I can't afford that with my daughter, and while I've trained her how to use a knife (not for defense), gun training is a bit further down the road.

 

Just the low probability someone may break into my house wanting to kill my family is not enough to make me want a gun for defense. I try not to do things to make mortal enemies, and I'm just not going to live in fear of the odd whack-job. I'm in a neighborhood that's very low-crime and have made my house about as safe as we can be without giving in to utter paranoia.

[Moontanman]

I feel like the odd man out here, guns are dangerous, that can not be argued, being dangerous is the main reason for their existence. For the last 35 years I have kept at least one gun for home protection, I taught my sons that guns were dangerous but I also taught them how to use them, they can both take them apart and put them back together blind folded. They knew from the beginning that guns were not toys and not to touch mine but if they wanted to see them, handle them, all they had to do was ask me and I would let them do so. Same way i was raised is why i guess.

 

I did keep trigger locks on my pistols, to me pistols are really useless, unless you are really good with one picking one up for defense opens a can of worms I am not willing to risk. But at a gun range they are a lot of fun and i made sure all my family could if necessary shoot one, my wife was an extremely good shot but pistols are not as useful as a shot gun so they were sold over the years in favor of shotguns.

 

Now I have a Moss Berg 12 gauge magnum pump, short barrel and collapsible stock. It is loaded 24/7 beside the head of my bed but no round is chambered and the safety is on.

 

I have to say that personally I assume that anyone breaking into my house is willing to do me body harm, I wouldn't shoot them with out seeing if they would stop and get on the ground but any aggressive move towards me will result in them eating #5 shot. I'm quite sure I am not prepared mentally to kill someone but i am even less prepared to allow anyone in my care to come to harm through my inaction either.

 

Now I do have a hillbilly alarm system that is 100% effective in detecting and warning me about intruders, anyone who gets past my alarm system has to be serious enough to harm me and if he has harmed my alarms he is in deep shit anyway...

[iNow]

Now I have a Moss Berg 12 gauge magnum pump, short barrel and collapsible stock. It is loaded 24/7 beside the head of my bed but no round is chambered and the safety is on.

Ditto for me (except for brand). I figure the sound of the pump action alone should be enough to scare off most invaders. If they remain after hearing that sound (pumping one into the chamber), then they're likely in my home with seriously ill intent and a trigger pull becomes much more likely.

 

Note: I am, however, currently trying to figure out how best I will alter this setup once my wife and I have kids.

[rigney]

I think you've missed the meaning of his post. If you own a gun, you are very unlikely to ever experience a home invasion, and even less likely to have to shoot an invader. You are substantially more likely to experience domestic violence using that gun. It's not a question of bad aim during the home invasion; it's a question of whether the home invasion would ever happen.

 

 

There exist quick-opening nightstand safes and such just for this purpose. There are even gun safes designed to be easily opened in seconds in the dark.

Unless children are involved, the best place for your gun at night is under your pillow, with the safety off and fully loaded. Otherwise, you don't have a gun even if you own a thousand. Yes! Guns and their use should be understood, not reviled as murderous weapons.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Unless children are involved, the best place for your gun at night is under your pillow, with the safety off and fully loaded. Otherwise, you don't have a gun even if you own a thousand. Yes! Guns and their use should be understood, not reviled as murderous weapons.

I dunno. I feel that 5AM when the cockroach falls off the wall and lands on your knee and wakes you up in the middle of a dream about brain parasites from Mars is possibly not the best time to have a loaded weapon under your pillow.

[rigney]

I dunno. I feel that 5AM when the cockroach falls off the wall and lands on your knee and wakes you up in the middle of a dream about brain parasites from Mars is possibly not the best time to have a loaded weapon under your pillow.

If that's all it takes to unhinge your phyche, for heaven sakes; don't even have one in the house. Simply leave it to the discretion of the perp. Edited July 24, 2012 by rigney

[Arete]

If that' all it takes to unhinge your phyche, for heaven sakes; don't even have one in the house.

 

I dunno, I'd be seriously thinking about medication if I was paranoid enough to be sleeping with a loaded pistol with the safety off under my pillow in my own home.

[rigney]

I dunno, I'd be seriously thinking about medication if I was paranoid enough to be sleeping with a loaded pistol with the safety off under my pillow in my own home.

Are you by any chance, "a blonde"? Just joking!

[Arete]

Are you by any chance, "a blonde"? Just joking!

 

Such a profound and insightful argument my good sir. You've thoroughly convinced me that all the things going bump in the night in my own home are communist ninjas bent on murdering my family as they sleep. I shall not sleep a jot until there are loaded firearms in every nook and cranny to be found to protect me from all the scary, scary and strange noises in the night. Just joking.

 

Seriously - you feel unsafe enough in your own home, in your own bed to have a loaded gun under your pillow with the safety off? Do you live in downtown Aleppo, or Compton or something?

 

Edit - for the sake of not starting a flame war (excuse the pun) - if a man was so afraid of his house catching on fire he would pull the pin on an extinguisher and put it under his pillow every night, we'd probably be a little worried about his undue paranoia about an exceptionally unlikely event. Only his fear of a house-fire killing his family would be better founded than the fear of an unknown assailant killing them. Is it just that the constitution doesn't say "right to bear fire fighting equipment" that makes one the perfectly normal exercising of a constitutional right and one symptomatic of unhealthy paranoia?

Edited July 24, 2012 by Arete

[Phi for All]

I dunno, I'd be seriously thinking about medication if I was paranoid enough to be sleeping with a loaded pistol with the safety off under my pillow in my own home.

Paranoia about killers makes you go out and buy a gun so you can kill them. It's a Catch-357.

[Moontanman]

Unless children are involved, the best place for your gun at night is under your pillow, with the safety off and fully loaded. Otherwise, you don't have a gun even if you own a thousand. Yes! Guns and their use should be understood, not reviled as murderous weapons.

 

 

Under your pillow or someplace else easy to get to is cool but a round in the chamber and safety off is begging for a accident rigney, at least put on the safety.... buy a noisy dog to warn you

Edited July 24, 2012 by Moontanman

[Bill Angel]

I dunno. I feel that 5AM when the cockroach falls off the wall and lands on your knee and wakes you up in the middle of a dream about brain parasites from Mars is possibly not the best time to have a loaded weapon under your pillow.

 

I think you raised a good point. A little over a year ago I was unexpectedly shaken awake from a deep sleep at 5 AM by someone I did not personally know. There was nothing sinister about the situation. It was his job where I was staying to wake people up at that hour. My reason for mentioning it is that I was having a really vivid dream, and my mind integrated his efforts to wake me up into the situation in the dream. My mind had temporary lost its ability to discern what was a dream situation and what was reality. Now the dream was of a non-threatening nature , and I don't sleep with a gun under my pillow. But I can envision how slightly different circumstances could have tragic consequences for others who are so armed.

[rigney]

Such a profound and insightful argument my good sir. You've thoroughly convinced me that all the things going bump in the night in my own home are communist ninjas bent on murdering my family as they sleep. I shall not sleep a jot until there are loaded firearms in every nook and cranny to be found to protect me from all the scary, scary and strange noises in the night. Just joking.

 

Seriously - you feel unsafe enough in your own home, in your own bed to have a loaded gun under your pillow with the safety off? Do you live in downtown Aleppo, or Compton or something?

 

Edit - for the sake of not starting a flame war (excuse the pun) - if a man was so afraid of his house catching on fire he would pull the pin on an extinguisher and put it under his pillow every night, we'd probably be a little worried about his undue paranoia about an exceptionally unlikely event. Only his fear of a house-fire killing his family would be better founded than the fear of an unknown assailant killing them. Is it just that the constitution doesn't say "right to bear fire fighting equipment" that makes one a constitutional right and one symptomatic of unhealthy paranoia?

No! Things that go bump in the night are to be expected. Paranoia was the mind set of this "Gentleman" who killed those 12 people in that theater. To jest in frivolity at those dead makes you either an idiot of the first dimension, or a kid.Take your pick. Edited July 24, 2012 by rigney

[Phi for All]

Under your pillow or someplace else easy to get to is cool but a round in the chamber and safety off is begging for a accident rigney, at least put on the safety.... buy a noisy dog to warn you

I hope rigney isn't a restless sleeper. Without a positive safety lock it doesn't take much of a fall to discharge a pistol if it lands on the hammer.

 

No! Things that go bump in the night are to be expected. Paranoia was the mind set of this "Gentleman" who killed those 12 people in that theater. To jest in frivolity at those dead makes you either an idiot of the first dimension, or a kid.Take your pick.

Whoa, Arete didn't even mention the Aurora killings! What the hell, rigney?! Reread what you quoted!

[rigney]

Under your pillow or someplace else easy to get to is cool but a round in the chamber and safety off is begging for a accident rigney, at least put on the safety.... buy a noisy dog to warn you

Somehow, believing you were a "Hick" like me; i would have thought your understanding fire arms would be second nature. Evidently i was wrong.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I hope rigney isn't a restless sleeper. Without a positive safety lock it doesn't take much of a fall to discharge a pistol if it lands on the hammer.

Most modern handguns have a bar which sits in the way of the firing pin until the trigger is already half-pulled. We actually have a late-1800s cheapo revolver which advertises this as its "Safety Hammer" feature.

 

Not that I'd advise dropping your weapons on their hammers to see what happens.

[rigney]

Such a profound and insightful argument my good sir. You've thoroughly convinced me that all the things going bump in the night in my own home are communist ninjas bent on murdering my family as they sleep. I shall not sleep a jot until there are loaded firearms in every nook and cranny to be found to protect me from all the scary, scary and strange noises in the night. Just joking.

 

Seriously - you feel unsafe enough in your own home, in your own bed to have a loaded gun under your pillow with the safety off? Do you live in downtown Aleppo, or Compton or something?

 

Edit - for the sake of not starting a flame war (excuse the pun) - if a man was so afraid of his house catching on fire he would pull the pin on an extinguisher and put it under his pillow every night, we'd probably be a little worried about his undue paranoia about an exceptionally unlikely event. Only his fear of a house-fire killing his family would be better founded than the fear of an unknown assailant killing them. Is it just that the constitution doesn't say "right to bear fire fighting equipment" that makes one the perfectly normal exercising of a constitutional right and one symptomatic of unhealthy paranoia?

i would be totally at the mercy of, hopefully; a good fire department. But then, are you at all familiar with fire arms?

 

Most modern handguns have a bar which sits in the way of the firing pin until the trigger is already half-pulled. We actually have a late-1800s cheapo revolver which advertises this as its "Safety Hammer" feature.

 

Not that I'd advise dropping your weapons on their hammers to see what happens.

I understand. When I say fully loaded, under the firing pin there is no round and you must squeeze the trigger, revolving to the next chamber which should contan a cartridge. With a round in it, it is prepared for discharge. Edited July 24, 2012 by rigney

[Phi for All]

Somehow, believing you were a "Hick" like me; i would have thought your understanding fire arms would be second nature. Evidently i was wrong.

I wouldn't trust anyone's reflexes to be top drawer coming out of a sound sleep. You take the safety off just before you shoot, no exceptions. I define first dimensional idiots as those who remove the safety from gun safety.

 

Most modern handguns have a bar which sits in the way of the firing pin until the trigger is already half-pulled.

Called a positive safety lock, and invented by Colt, iirc. I thought I said that.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I wouldn't trust anyone's reflexes to be top drawer coming out of a sound sleep. You take the safety off just before you shoot, no exceptions. I define first dimensional idiots as those who remove the safety from gun safety.

I take it you're not a Glock fan.

 

Called a positive safety lock, and invented by Colt, iirc. I thought I said that.

Ah, I'd not heard the term before; I assumed positive safety referred to a manual safety. (I've heard of drop safeties and firing pin safeties, but not positive safeties.)

[Arete]

No! Things that go bump in the night are to be expected. Paranoia was the mind set of this "Gentleman" who killed those 12 people in that theater. To jest in frivolity at those dead makes you either an idiot of the first dimension, or a kid.Take your pick.

 

Whoa, cheap shot strawman ahoy! We weren't even discussing the Aurora shootings - I used the device of sarcasm to suggest that you choosing insults rather than logical counter argument wasn't overly convincing.

 

i would be totally at the mercy of, hopefully; a good fire department. But then, are you at all familiar with fire arms?

 

Are you saying my relative experience with guns impacts the likelihood an intruder will assail you in your own home? Why would you rely on the fire department if your home caught fire, but place a pistol under your pillow instead of relying on the police to deal with a home invader?

 

I'm not saying don't own guns (or fire extinguishers for that matter) I'm just interested in why one and not the other...

 

As an aside - I used to have a job that involved feral animal control, so have used firearms before. This experience is fundamental in me thinking it strange that you would keep a safety-off gun under your head while you slept.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Arete

[rigney]

I wouldn't trust anyone's reflexes to be top drawer coming out of a sound sleep. You take the safety off just before you shoot, no exceptions. I define first dimensional idiots as those who remove the safety from gun safety.

 

Called a positive safety lock, and invented by Colt, iirc. I thought I said that.

Evidently, you are not too well trained in the use of fire arms.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Are you saying my relative experience with guns impacts the likelihood an intruder will assail you in your own home? Why would you rely on the fire department if your home caught fire, but place a pistol under your pillow instead of relying on the police to deal with a home invader?

It's rather inconvenient to keep a fire hydrant under the pillow. Or so I'm told.

[Arete]

It's rather inconvenient to keep a fire hydrant under the pillow. Or so I'm told.

 

I keep an extinguisher in the car and one in my kitchen. I would also find it odd for someone to keep one under their pillow, however

[Greg H.]

Unless children are involved, the best place for your gun at night is under your pillow, with the safety off and fully loaded. Otherwise, you don't have a gun even if you own a thousand. Yes! Guns and their use should be understood, not reviled as murderous weapons.

 

This is the kind of asinine statement that makes it easy for the "Ban the gun" crowd to make their points. Even when I was in the military in the field we didn't sleep with our weapons loaded. Loaded, under a pillow with the safety off? I am never, ever staying at your house, and I sincerely hope no one else does either. I don't want to get shot trying to wake you up because the kitchen caught fire.

 

Evidently, you are not too well trained in the use of fire arms.

 

And evidently, you are a dumbass. And yes, I know that's an ad hominem, but in this case it also appears to be the truth, at least where firearms safety is concerned.