Treading Water from the right.

[rigney]

I believe we have pretty much figured it out about Entrepreneurs, "Don't be one"! Now this virus of taxation has invaded the Olympics. So be cautious and don't win a medal what ever you do. That is, unless, you want to pay taxes on it. Is this for real? Isn't this the damndest thing you've ever heard of? A youth who has become very proficient over the years honing their skills and who is now qualifiesd for the Olympics, is required to pay taxes on the worth of the medals. Oh Yea! Government wants their cut regardless of who the hell paid those thosands of dollars going into that training. Your're right dude, 'they didn't do that on their own". Pony up!

Edited August 1, 2012 by rigney

[iNow]

Ermmm... You gotta link or somethin'? Not sure WTH you're on about this time... or last time, really, but this time is present, so...

[Phi for All]

Due diligence is required:

 

http://www.outsideth...ills-back-home/

 

 

It's not the hardware itself that's likely to trigger a tax bill (though it could). It's the cash that goes along with it. Athletes who make the podium can look forward to a check from the U.S. Olympic Organizing Committee: $25,000 for gold, $15,000 for silver and $10,000 for bronze. Like lottery winners and Jeopardy champions, those winnings are taxable.

rig, you gotta stop listening to whoever you're listening to.

[Greg H.]

Ermmm... You gotta link or somethin'? Not sure WTH you're on about this time... or last time, really, but this time is present, so...

 

I believe he's on about this:

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/jul/31/picket-olympics-math-medal-winners-pay-9000-irs/

[rigney]

Ermmm... You gotta link or somethin'? Not sure WTH you're on about this time... or last time, really, but this time is present, so...

No! I just heard it on that silly assed FOX channel. If I find it quickly, I'll let you know. Otherwise blame it on the right, they made the statement. But maybe this will help.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/jul/31/picket-olympics-math-medal-winners-pay-9000-irs/

 

Due diligence is required:

 

http://www.outsideth...ills-back-home/

 

 

 

rig, you gotta stop listening to whoever you're listening to.

Just how much effort or money did the government put into this athletes years of training? Oh Yes! They may have rode a bus down the street or crossed a bridge, but thousands of hours and money was paid to get this honed edge. One chance for something good in a life and we crusify them? It isn't like hitting the lottery, even though that can be expensive. Edited August 1, 2012 by rigney

[Arete]

Just how much effort or money did the government put into this athletes years of training? Oh Yes! They may have rode a bus down the street or crossed a bridge, but thousands of hours and money was paid to get this honed edge. One chance for something good in a life and we crusify them? It isn't like hitting the lottery, even though that can be expensive.

 

Wait, so you think that an athlete's earnings - such as say, a professional tennis player who earns their living through tournament winnings, or an olympic wrestler who has a shot at $250,000 for winning gold should be tax exempt because training to become an athlete is expensive and hard?

 

Can I argue that my PhD was expensive and hard so I shouldn't have to pay tax on my postdoc salary?

[Phi for All]

Just how much effort or money did the government put into this athletes years of training? Oh Yes! They may have rode a bus down the street or crossed a bridge, but thousands of hours and money was paid to get this honed edge. One chance for something good in a life and we crusify them? It isn't like hitting the lottery, even though that can be expensive.

The US government doesn't pay the Olympic athletes. It's all private sponsorship, subject to applicable taxes (although there may be some tax breaks on sponsorship for the sponsor). It's also often the springboard for lucrative professional sports careers. And an Olympic medalist would only pay taxes on the medal itself if they sold it.

 

What exactly is your problem with this? It seems completely fair. You seem to have taken offense at the idea of paying taxes on the medals, and when that was proven false, you retain your umbrage and just continue to lash out at everything else that bothers you. That's not healthy.

 

No! I just heard it on that silly assed FOX channel. If I find it quickly, I'll let you know. Otherwise blame it on the right, they made the statement.

Misinformation from FOX?! Out of context quotes from the right?! Flabbergasted, that's what I am.

[padren]

No! I just heard it on that silly assed FOX channel. If I find it quickly, I'll let you know. Otherwise blame it on the right, they made the statement.

 

You need to see how these guys work - I'll break it down for you:

 

First, a Fox News link to the story:

 

The title of this story is "ATR Calculates Huge Tax Burden For American Olympic Gold Medalists"

 

For the "You didn't build that!" file: Our friends at Americans for Tax Reform (ATR) did some number crunching and calculated that American Olympians who win gold medals this year will face nearly $9,000 in federal income tax per each one earned. Silver medalists would pay just a bit over $5,300.

 

First, it's nice they got the "You didn't build that!" text right at the start (Search engine optimization for an already discredited sound bite) but nicely sidesteps the actual meat of the story:

 

1) The "ATR Calculates" - that means Grover Norquist... (the guy George Bush Sr. was quoted talking about in the other thread as a complete ninny*) has released this "news" and

2) It's just a calculation that they came up with - no evidence the IRS has ever harassed anyone over medals.

3) The real question is whether they pay taxes on the cash prizes from the U.S. Olympic Organizing Committee: $25,000 for gold, $15,000 for silver and $10,000 for bronze.

4) How did they get those numbers? $5,300 on $10,000 is 53%, and $9,000 out of $25,000 is 36%. Where did they get that from?? They don't cite that in their post.

In fact, a better article can be found here, which is linked from the ATR page:

 

 

The short answer is: they may have some liability from income on cash prizes, it's not new, isn't not news.

 

I have never heard of medals themselves being taxed and I have never heard of US Olympic Athletes taking issue with the cash prizes. These cash prizes are very small compared to the endorsement deals gold medalists usually get.

 

If you are especially moved by this however, I recommend you ask some actual American Gold Medalists what they think, because I doubt many of them really want yet another thousand pages added to the IRS tax code simply to reduce the few percent potentially shaved from a cash prize.

 

If you find this especially troubling though - why didn't it bother anyone during the Salt Lake Olympic games? I don't recall Romney saying anything...

 

*to paraphrase GHB

 

 

Edit: just to be clear about the breakdown:

 

1) reuters blog posted on July 30, 2012

A rather benign article that covers a few more interesting components, but not hyperbolic

2) ATR website posted on July 31, 2012

A rather badly done scare-piece that cites ridiculous figures "calculated" by a Washington lobby group, no less.

3) ATR website posted on July 31, 2012

Fox does their own article citing their "friends" at the lobby group as if it was actual news

 

If they really thought any of this was true, they would have researched it can come up with at least some evidence of it being true. Since they couldn't, they used words like "Calculated" and fail to mention that their "friends" are full time lobbyists.

 

Sadly, not even faking news is considered news anymore.

Edited August 1, 2012 by padren

[rigney]

Wait, so you think that an athlete's earnings - such as say, a professional tennis player who earns their living through tournament winnings, or an olympic wrestler who has a shot at $250,000 for winning gold should be tax exempt because training to become an athlete is expensive and hard?

 

Can I argue that my PhD was expensive and hard so I shouldn't have to pay tax on my postdoc salary?

Well bless your heart! A Phd & post doc? Tell me, how many hours did you spend pounding the pavement or a grassy field or climbing a hill or swimming laps in a pool to quantify that honed skill? Yes, you did quite a bit of study and mental anguish attaining that goal. "But you didn't pay for that on your own"! Someone helped you! Many of these kids, you can bet are full time students and do this out of love for the competition. We all have crosses to bear, keep yours light.

 

You need to see how these guys work - I'll break it down for you:

 

First, a Fox News link to the story:

 

The title of this story is "ATR Calculates Huge Tax Burden For American Olympic Gold Medalists"

 

 

 

First, it's nice they got the "You didn't build that!" text right at the start (Search engine optimization for an already discredited sound bite) but nicely sidesteps the actual meat of the story:

 

1) The "ATR Calculates" - that means Grover Norquist... (the guy George Bush Sr. was quoted talking about in the other thread as a complete ninny*) has released this "news" and

2) It's just a calculation that they came up with - no evidence the IRS has ever harassed anyone over medals.

3) The real question is whether they pay taxes on the cash prizes from the U.S. Olympic Organizing Committee: $25,000 for gold, $15,000 for silver and $10,000 for bronze.

4) How did they get those numbers? $5,300 on $10,000 is 53%, and $9,000 out of $25,000 is 36%. Where did they get that from?? They don't cite that in their post.

In fact, a better article can be found here, which is linked from the ATR page:

 

 

The short answer is: they may have some liability from income on cash prizes, it's not new, isn't not news.

 

I have never heard of medals themselves being taxed and I have never heard of US Olympic Athletes taking issue with the cash prizes. These cash prizes are very small compared to the endorsement deals gold medalists usually get.

 

If you are especially moved by this however, I recommend you ask some actual American Gold Medalists what they think, because I doubt many of them really want yet another thousand pages added to the IRS tax code simply to reduce the few percent potentially shaved from a cash prize.

 

If you find this especially troubling though - why didn't it bother anyone during the Salt Lake Olympic games? I don't recall Romney saying anything...

 

*to paraphrase GHB

Holy cats butt! I didn't even know Romney existed at the time. I've only been on this forum a bit over two years. Until I got the picture of left and right, I thought we were just people with different ideas. Sadly, I was wrong.

 

Due diligence is required:

 

http://www.outsideth...ills-back-home/

 

 

 

rig, you gotta stop listening to whoever you're listening to.

Well! What am I to believe?

[Greg H.]

 

Well! What am I to believe?

 

Belief is the problem. Verify what people are telling you - fact check. Then you won't have to believe - you'll know*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

_{* - and knowing is half the battle.}

[rigney]

The US government doesn't pay the Olympic athletes. It's all private sponsorship, subject to applicable taxes (although their may be some tax breaks on sponsorship for the sponsor). It's also often the springboard for lucrative professional sports careers. And an Olympic medalist would only pay taxes on the medal itself if they sold it.

So what if they inadvertently lose it? If not, why not wait until they start making those big bucks?

Edited August 1, 2012 by rigney

[swansont]

The trick is the "up to" phrase — it assumes that the athletes already have an income that puts them into the top tax bracket, i.e. a single filer is already making $200k (or whatever the cutoff is)

 

 

Well! What am I to believe?

 

Perhaps less believing and more demand for the facts is in order.

[Phi for All]

Well! What am I to believe?

If you read about something that affects you emotionally one way or another, Google for other sources about it, other perspectives. Be rigorous, check it out. You know about Snopes and FactCheck, so you should always get as many angles as can to zero in on what's most accurate.

 

So what if they inadvertently lose it? If not, why not wait until they start making those big bucks?

What if they inadvertently lose the medal, you mean? I'd have to say, "Wow, I can't believe you inadvertently lost something that should have meant a lot to you."

 

Did you read those links? They make big bucks winning the medals, and have sponsors who make sure their training tables are full and they get what they need to focus on the sport.

 

I think someone plucked your patriotic strings and made you believe that representing the US in the Olympics is akin to throwing yourself on a grenade or something. I admire superlative expertise when it's used meaningfully, but I don't see why Olympic athletes should be given more than they already are.

 

Personally, I think sacrificing all the other things you could be doing to focus on sports is not all that praiseworthy. What you do with your fame and fortune afterwards is much more interesting and possibly worthy of tax exemptions. I'd hate to give you preferred status if you're just going to do drugs, crash your Maserati and beat up your spouse.

[rigney]

The trick is the "up to" phrase — it assumes that the athletes already have an income that puts them into the top tax bracket, i.e. a single filer is already making $200k (or whatever the cutoff is)

 

Perhaps less believing and more demand for the facts is in order.

Yes, some athletes jump from poverty to huge bucks. But not most. I believe this link says a lot about the issue.

http://www.biblemoneymatters.com/the-cost-of-raising-an-olympian/

When all is said and done, yes; when an athlete is well paid or overpaid, they should be taxed accordingly. But for the government to ask recompense from a medal winner, I don't buy it, even if they have won a dozen gold and sold them all. Tax their wealth from that point on, not for winning a medal.

Edited August 1, 2012 by rigney

[Phi for All]

when an athlete is well paid or overpaid should pay accordingly. But for the government to ask recompense from a medal winner, I don't buy it, even if they have won a dozen gold. Tax their wealth from that point on.

Because they're representing the country? Then you probably won't mind my new proposal, where all government workers are exempt from taxes. Federal workers shouldn't pay federal taxes, state workers shouldn't pay state. They are representing the country, helping us all with their hard work, right?

[Greg H.]

Because they're representing the country? Then you probably won't mind my new proposal, where all government workers are exempt from taxes. Federal workers shouldn't pay federal taxes, state workers shouldn't pay state. They are representing the country, helping us all with their hard work, right?

 

And lets not forget the injustice of our service men and women paying income taxes. Surely putting their lives on the line is enough of a tax.

[rigney]

Because they're representing the country? Then you probably won't mind my new proposal, where all government workers are exempt from taxes. Federal workers shouldn't pay federal taxes, state workers shouldn't pay state. They are representing the country, helping us all with their hard work, right?

if you are proposing this as a liberal issue, forget it.

[Greg H.]

if you are proposing this as a liberal issue, forget it.

 

And this is exactly why I am so disillusioned with American politics. If a good idea comes from the "wrong" side, we have to vilify it, even if we like it, otherwise we're disloyal.

 

Not that the original idea was necessarily good, but the phrasing of the question above to me indicates a perfect example of this kind of divisive us or them thinking that is ruining our country.

[rigney]

And lets not forget the injustice of our service men and women paying income taxes. Surely putting their lives on the line is enough of a tax.

This is by no means an injustice done to our service men or women. Either as a total heroic act of patrioticism on their part or wanting to make a living, they paid their taxes and many with their lives. When I see some of the trash, filthy trash that explains their detachment of trying to attain employment, i want to puke. Let's leave it at that.

[Phi for All]

And lets not forget the injustice of our service men and women paying income taxes. Surely putting their lives on the line is enough of a tax.

I'll bet rigney goes for that in a big way! And it makes sense as well, even more than with government workers.

 

if you are proposing this as a liberal issue, forget it.

Oh, nice one, since it's always bad if it's liberal. Actually, I always wondered why government workers weren't simply offered tax exemption on their government wages as part of their compensation package. It would cut down on a great deal of paperwork and expense.

 

Then I saw what politicians make....

[rigney]

And this is exactly why I am so disillusioned with American politics. If a good idea comes from the "wrong" side, we have to vilify it, even if we like it, otherwise we're disloyal.

 

Not that the original idea was necessarily good, but the phrasing of the question above to me indicates a perfect example of this kind of divisive us or them thinking that is ruining our country.

I didn't make that statement as an accusation, or to villify you. But from what I was hearing, it didn't equate to a rightist's understanding. Pardon! Edited August 1, 2012 by rigney

[Greg H.]

I did not make the accusation, nor to villify you. But from what I was hearing, it didn't equate to a rightist statement.

 

Do things always have to be right or left? What happened to the good of the country as a whole, as opposed to what's good for my group.

[Arete]

Well bless your heart! A Phd & post doc? Tell me, how many hours did you spend pounding the pavement or a grassy field or climbing a hill or swimming laps in a pool to quantify that honed skill? Yes, you did quite a bit of study and mental anguish attaining that goal. "But you didn't pay for that on your own"! Someone helped you! Many of these kids, you can bet are full time students and do this out of love for the competition. We all have crosses to bear, keep yours light.

 

Actually I spent a lot of time climbing hills, pounding pavement and generally exerting myself physically to earn my bits of paper from the vice chancellor: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/66966-field-trip-report-thread/

 

 

But you're missing the point. The point is lots of people work hard in all sorts of disciplines, and sometimes they get rewarded monetarily for that hard work. Why should the money an athlete earns be tax exempt, but not an academics? or a doctor who busts his butt saving lives? Or a soldier on active duty? Or etc etc etc.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Arete

[padren]

The sad thing is the main reason everyone is "emotionally charged" on this topic is because our tax system is a festering mess, which everyone hates across the board. Both liberals and conservatives tend to agree entirely on the need to simplify the tax code, which includes clearing out a lot of complex tax breaks.

 

 

We all feel somewhat cheated by the tax system, because we know the opaque complexity is unnecessary and wasteful.

 

 

But instead of discussing the root issues, we are talking about whether Olympic cash prizes should be taxed, and by proxy it seems whether or not this is an indictment against Obama that he did not immediately issue an executive order to remedy this long standing travesty his first day in office.

[Phi for All]

The sad thing is the main reason everyone is "emotionally charged" on this topic is because our tax system is a festering mess, which everyone hates across the board. Both liberals and conservatives tend to agree entirely on the need to simplify the tax code, which includes clearing out a lot of complex tax breaks.

Since everyone wants the tax system changed, yet it only keeps getting more complicated, that should tell us someone wants it to stay that way.