Has the Republican party lost its collective mind?

[John Cuthber]

Once again, they are beyond parody.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/ericrosswood/your_child_may_be_forced_to_show_their_genitals_in_school_if_this_law_is_passed

[Phi for All]

Once again, they are beyond parody.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/ericrosswood/your_child_may_be_forced_to_show_their_genitals_in_school_if_this_law_is_passed

 

More kneejerk, emotional reactions that make no sense on review. Why do I get the sense this isn't about morals as much as it's about "some big old boy who calls himself a girl is going to beat my daughter in women's soccer" (or worse, a girl will beat my boy!)?

 

It's probably really about repealing that law, and forcing kids to use a bathroom they don't identify with, but since it's about sports they're going to get support they shouldn't have. High school sports parents in the US are maniacs anyway, and they see unfairness everywhere.

 

It could also be that Mr Hunt would really like to start "proving himself" to anyone who will watch.

 

When I think about transgender people and bathrooms, there's nothing "dirty" or sexual about it (maybe I'm using the wrong bathrooms). When I hear Rep Hunt's proposal, all I hear is peeking at children's genitals for no reason, and it's all about the dirty. Shame is what he should feel, instead of trying to foist it on others.

[imatfaal]

Once again, they are beyond parody.

http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/ericrosswood/your_child_may_be_forced_to_show_their_genitals_in_school_if_this_law_is_passed

 

To be honest proposals for new laws like the above make me think for a second (but only for a second) that maybe owning a firearm to protect myself and my family from the government isn't such a bad idea. Then I come back down to earth and realise what a wingnut plan that is - and how glad I am that I do not have to suffer the liberties of the land of the free

[Phi for All]

 

To be honest proposals for new laws like the above make me think for a second (but only for a second) that maybe owning a firearm to protect myself and my family from the government isn't such a bad idea. Then I come back down to earth and realise what a wingnut plan that is - and how glad I am that I do not have to suffer the liberties of the land of the free

 

That's a wonderful perspective, though. The Republicans have created this scenario where their own people are the ones who cause the fear that makes the whole party respond with more fear and stupid legislation.

 

It's almost exactly like the real problem with auto traffic. It's the brake lights that take energy out of the system, and it's the people who are driving like jerks to avoid the traffic that are causing the traffic. It's a case of thinking you're doing something about the problem when you're really the biggest cause of it, something few people could ever admit. This makes more sense to me than the whole Republican party losing its collective mind.

 

They're the ones trying to unclog the toilet by pushing the clog further in with a mop handle. It makes sense to them because they see themselves caring and doing something, forcing the clog down the drain because that's what you do with clogs. They never see that they're actually making the clog worse.

 

But then, I'm always looking to apply reason to irrational situations. It makes me feel good but has a low success history. Like my analogies.

[overtone]

 

 

It's a case of thinking you're doing something about the problem when you're really the biggest cause of it, something few people could ever admit. This makes more sense to me than the whole Republican party losing its collective mind.

To deny their role in causing their problems, they have been forced farther and farther into hallucination, farther and farther from a reality that will not - out of courtesy, say - ever become a different reality, and cease its progress away from them.

 

The progress of the entire juggernaut of crazy depends on amnesia, forgetting the past in order to mistake the direction and deny the destination. The only caveat here is that this is not recent: Trump is just Limbaugh running for office, Gingrich with no political obligations, Coulter with a fat ass and better makeup - Limbaugh has been the central and most significant Republican intellectual since 1992, Gingrich got this monster on its feet in 1994, Coulter has been the best selling Republican hit man for twenty years now.

 

What's the difference between that and losing one's mind? Losing one's footing in reality and losing one's mind are the same thing. We now have essentially every single pundit on the major media doing the "both sides" whackdance on this stage, trying to find some way to fit Donald Trump into a play about sane and competent adults belonging to a legitimate political Party democratically governing a major industrial power according to a commendable set of values, and it's becoming clear that what started in tragedy is going to end - as foreshadowed by Ronald "Quotes" Reagan and spotlit by Sara "Winks" Palin - in farce.

 

This isn't anything new, folks. This is the incoming Republican political world since 1968, the power takeover of 1980, the consolidation of 1994, the consummation of 2000 (remember the giddy celebration of W's win that year? The fireworks and chestbeating of Mission Accomplished? How much fun it was to call all those whiny liberals "traitors" before they turned out to be, once again, right? You can still find the remnants on Youtube).

[Ten oz]

Just as an arroused post potential mate may say or allow themselves to momentarily believe anything that leads to intercourse the republican party has fallen into the self inflating cycle of emotional responses over reason. They want to be back in the executive branch and refuse to acknowledge anyone but them has a right be much like a jealous suiter refuses to concede they are not the only available fish in the sea. Everything done by Obama, Clinton, whomever their foe is can never be legitimate just as any touch upon the women one obsessively stalks is one deserved only to them. It is irrational, inconsiderate, and sociopathic behavior. The GOP want the country for themselves without out any regard for whether or not such is good for the country. They fondly think back on the Bush years which soiled international relations, collasped the worlds economy, lead to 2 full boots on the ground wars, turn surpluses in to record shattering deficits, but somehow satisfied their need for control. Rather Obama's more succesful messured and moderate approaches are seen as weak, unpatriotic, and abusive to the spirit of the constitution. It is truly a case where anyone do anything but them simply isn't acceptable. Long as they are in the drivers seat they are happy. What is happening outside of he car simply does not matter.

[Phi for All]

What's the difference between that and losing one's mind?

 

The approach to correct the problem. They don't respond to "OMG, you've lost your collective mind!"

 

They think in terms of big picture scary, so big picture concepts from the left are automatically bad and quickly dismissed. That's why you can say "Gun control" or "Welfare" and get an immediate negative, stompy boots jumping up and down on it, unequivocal response from the base. But when you feather it out into tactical parts they can deal with, like "background checks for those purchasing firearms at private sales", or "no homeless widows with children", they feel completely differently. They're willing to approve spending that will alleviate the problems as long as it's not presented as one of those big picture scary concepts their media pundolts are always cranking the handle of the Jack-in-the-box about. It may not be the most favorable, effective, and efficient measure that gets taken, but progress is made with an otherwise intractable party.

 

There aren't too many people who want widows and their kids homeless. I know staunch Libertarians who hesitate about cutting that type of public funding. And it's been shown that a majority of Republicans favor some of the specific gun control measures being proposed.

 

It's a good vent to call out the crazy, but being specific about their faults probably won't work as well as being specific about where they can help. These aren't big critical thinkers, and they don't accept much criticism even if it's constructive. That's not a metric they respect. They're generally good people with big, easy-to-push YES and NO buttons (white and black respectively), who don't spend time much deeper than that. Whether they flock to the media sources that manipulate them, or the sources target them with gingerbread treats and candy, the choice I think they've made is a lazy rather than crazy one.

 

So we can insist they need mental help, or we can break off some small chunks of reason and go out of our way to make sure they're palatable. The vent feels good but I doubt it's helping much.

[overtone]

What's the difference between that and losing one's mind?

The approach to correct the problem. They don't respond to "OMG, you've lost your collective mind!"

So? Of course one wouldn't expect people who have lost their collective mind to respond to any such approach.

 

They think in terms of big picture scary, so big picture concepts from the left are automatically bad and quickly dismissed.

They aren't getting any big picture concepts from the Left. They aren't getting anything from the Left. They wouldn't know what the Left was if it was actually signing their Social Security checks "from the Left".

 

They're willing to approve spending that will alleviate the problems as long as it's not presented as one of those big picture scary concepts their media pundolts are always cranking the handle of the Jack-in-the-box about.

No, they aren't. And their media pundits are not going to just have a change of heart one day. Have you been following where these people are getting their news? Listening to their media pundits?

 

It's a good vent to call out the crazy, but being specific about their faults probably won't work as well as being specific about where they can help.

It's not a "vent", it's journalism. And if it isn't happening, it's the journalists who should be called out. Having the entire body of the news media ignoring the craziness of the current Republican Party, and treating the rise of fascism to power in this country with respect as a legitimate political ideology, is dangerous, and should be called out. Trying to be specific about where somebody like Mike Huckabee or Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz could "help" is a complete waste of time, unless you specify the planet on which you expect that to happen.

 

These aren't big critical thinkers, and they don't accept much criticism even if it's constructive. That's not a metric they respect. They're generally good people with big, easy-to-push YES and NO buttons (white and black respectively), who don't spend time much deeper than that.

They are not, however, "specifically good" people. For example, you're right about those buttons being white and black - yep. And I'm not interested in getting their respect - I'm interested in minimizing their influence on my government.

Look: if you think these people are reacting against being confronted and criticized, you are taking their whining and claims of persecution way too seriously. They have not been confronted, not been criticized, not been forced to account for themselves at all. These people have been mollycoddled for forty years, treated with respect for doing and saying stuff no adult should have to put up with from a two year old. They're spoiled, not persecuted. These are tantrums, not grievances. These people are, as Matt Taibbi documented so thoroughly last election, completely full of shit. And it's partly because they have never faced consequences for their behavior, delivered by the people they abuse.

 

So we can insist they need mental help, or we can break off some small chunks of reason and go out of our way to make sure they're palatable.

Insistence that they need mental help would be directed at those capable of providing it, not the crazy themselves. Meanwhile, if you think they are going to be paying any attention to reason you haven't been paying attention to them. How would they find out about it?

The good news is, this is 27% of the electorate. They can be isolated, and stepped on, democratically - the longer you postpone, the harder it will get. Once we had to fight a Civil War. Once we had to endure a Great Depression kicking their teeth in. Once we had to call in the National Guard so that their neighbors's children could go to school - through a gauntlet of these "generally good" people spitting and screaming. Those were consequences of letting things go and hoping they would see reason in small, palatable chunks. They won't.

Edited January 14, 2016 by overtone

[MigL]

It must really bother you, Overtone, that people, who you consider NOT 'specifically good' people, or crazy people, or whining, spoiled and irresponsible ( for the past 40 yrs ) people, or people you consider your intellectual inferiors, have as much say in the government that represents them also, as you do.

 

Do you want a link for the definition of DEMOCRACY ?

[overtone]

 

 

It must really bother you, Overtone, that people, who you consider NOT 'specifically good' people, or crazy people, or whining, spoiled and irresponsible ( for the past 40 yrs ) people, or people you consider your intellectual inferiors, have as much say in the government that represents them also, as you do.

I would be much less bothered if I thought the Republican Party actually represented the citizens of the United States. That would be simple justice - the citizens getting what they deserved, good and hard. No complaints.

 

Do you want a link for the definition of DEMOCRACY ?

Happytalk about Democracy is no excuse for the current Republican Party.

[John Cuthber]

Mr Trump makes it just too easy to show how daft the Republicans are.

In his latest outburst he confirms that he wants to torture people for political gain.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/02/06/donald-trump-waterboarding-debate/79951320/

 

It's long been known that torture isn't a valid way to get information

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22830471-200-torture-doesnt-work-says-science-why-are-we-still-doing-it/

but that doesn't stop him.

So, since the torture isn't to stop terrorism or crime, it can only be to boost his poll ratings.

Edited February 7, 2016 by John Cuthber

[iNow]

Not just Trump. Per last nights GOP debate, Cruz, Christie, Bush, and others all said that they'd support continued use of water boarding if they became president and that it could help save lives and by definition isn't torture / is just "enhanced interrogation."

 

One thing you might realize is that effectiveness and empirical support of a proposal is not a high priority for republican ideas or voters who have done amazing things with social media reinforcing the alternate reality bubble.

[Ten oz]

I honest suspect that Trump is secretly a Clinton supporter and his whole campaign is meant to expose how unserious the modern conservative movement actually is. That and I think he legitimately has a grudge against Jeb Bush for something.

[iNow]

To the thread title, former Labor Secretary under Bill Clinton, Robert Reich makes some interesting points here:

 

http://robertreich.org/post/139385548525

Im writing to you today to announce the death of the Republican Party. It is no longer a living, vital, animate organization.

 

It died in 2016. RIP.

 

It has been replaced by... (continue reading)

[MigL]

That article would actually be funny if it wasn't so depressingly true.

You should also post it in the 'Competent Republicans' thread.

Any 'Bozo' with money is welcome to run as a Republican these days.

[Willie71]

Robert Reich is quite brilliant. His economic ideas are evidence based, not ideologically or faith based. He has a lot of short clips on that website that anyone interested in fact checking economic policy proposals for any of the candidates could benefit from.

[overtone]

Robert Reich makes some interesting points here: -

Twenty or thirty years late. The Republican Party did not die in 2016. It was dead as a legitimate political Party when it impeached Clinton, if not before. It was a corpse - as a legit Party - when it nominated W for the Presidency, rigged key voting districts and the Supreme Court to hand him the office.

 

This isn't a surprise, a shock, a new thing in the public arena. Donald Trump is saying nothing that Rush Limbaugh wasn't saying in 1994, he's not a whit nuttier in his positions than Ronald Reagan was in 1980. Trump is unusually vulgar, like the hate radio and Fox punditry and PAC tactics that threw him up, but he's otherwise an ordinary Republican politician.

(Trump's economics make more sense than Reagan's voodoo, actually, and when Ronnie stood up on his hind legs and defended US support of death squads in Central America

- yes, they tortured, and under US guidance and supervision as well as support

- his invocation of the terrorist risk from the fanatic agents of Communism so close to the US border in Nicaragua was as fantastically delusional as anything Trump is putting out there. )

 

From the Reich link: "I, for one, regret its passing. Our nation needs political parties to connect up different groups of Americans, sift through prospective candidates, deliberate over priorities, identify common principles, and forge a platform

- - - -

But there was always enough of a Republican Party to do these important tasks – to span the divides, give force and expression to a set of core beliefs, and come up with a candidate around whom Party regulars could enthusiastically rally."

 

Robert, Robert - bless your warm and kindly heart replacing the spotlight of history with the glow of nostalgia, but the Republican Party has not been operating like that since the last time you raided the change jar for laundry quarters. That's not how Nixon won the Presidency, that's not how Reagan or W came to power in that Party, that's not where Spiro Agnew and Dan Quayle and Dick Cheney and Sara Palin came from, that's not the Party taking its marching orders from Karl Rove and Frank Lunz and Newt Gingrich and the Kochs/Adelmans of this world.

Edited February 16, 2016 by overtone

[John Cuthber]

It seems they have swapped their mind for power.

[Ten oz]

It seems they have swapped their mind for power.

Even the few conservatives in this forum who labeled Trump a bigot not qualified to be President a few months ago are now defending him.

 

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

[John Cuthber]

Why wouldn't they?

We have 9 pages of stories saying that most of what Trump said was run-of-the-mill for the Republicans anyway. Trump was just a bit less subtle about his biggotry

[John Cuthber]

Wow!
Who remembers this thread. 
It started with this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G61x68TG548&feature=youtu.be
Anyway, here's what Trump is  currently up to
I have broken more Elton John records, he seems to have a lot of records. And I, by the way, I don’t have a musical instrument. I don’t have a guitar or an organ. No organ. Elton has an organ. And lots of other people helping. No we’ve broken a lot of records. We’ve broken virtually every record. Because you know, look I only need this space. They need much more room. For basketball, for hockey and all of the sports, they need a lot of room. We don’t need it. We have people in that space. So we break all of these records. Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.

[CharonY]

I'll just leave this one here. https://www.vox.com/2018/7/9/17525860/nazis-russell-walker-arthur-jones-republicans-illinois-north-carolina-virginia

[StringJunky]

39 minutes ago, CharonY said:

I'll just leave this one here. https://www.vox.com/2018/7/9/17525860/nazis-russell-walker-arthur-jones-republicans-illinois-north-carolina-virginia

The Republicans may deny these people are part of them but I see them as living caricatures of mainstream Republican policy. They represent how their policies would manifest in the  end if not obstructed... not pretty. 

[John Cuthber]

As far as I can tell, it's not a caricature; it is mainstream policy.

[Ten oz]

23 hours ago, StringJunky said:

The Republicans may deny these people are part of them but I see them as living caricatures of mainstream Republican policy. They represent how their policies would manifest in the  end if not obstructed... not pretty. 

The issue is bigger than the Republican party. Russia is using pro conservatives pro nationalism propaganda to shift right leaning people toward authoritarianism in the western world.  We saw it with Brexit, see it with Trump, and we see people like Assad and Jong-un being accepted as leaders globally when just a couple years ago it was the united opinion of the U.S. & EU that both had to go.