How Can I Make Biogas On At Home

[chilled_fluorine]

Okay, I want to make biogas. I've got a ton of organic stuff (yard waste and dog crap) that would be fun to do something useful with. Does anybody out there have a cheap, simple way of making it for someone with no ability to fabricate custom parts? I don't think i have any way to compress the gas for storage, but I've heard you can easily convert it to methanol. I just want to make a practical apparatus for home production.

[alpha2cen]

Using methane(natural gas) is an easy way. If organic stuff to methanol converting is easy, why many bio-ethanol company make ethanol from the expensive corn?

[Phi for All]

If organic stuff to methanol converting is easy, why many bio-ethanol company make ethanol from the expensive corn?

Agricultural subsidies.

[chilled_fluorine]

Using methane(natural gas) is an easy way. If organic stuff to methanol converting is easy, why many bio-ethanol company make ethanol from the expensive corn?

 

Considering as biogas is mostly methane, yes, I agree completely. It is very easy to get methane from methane. I want to make methane. Not buy it from big oil (maybe big natural gas...). Or make it from itself? Please tell me how to make it, and in a way I specified. Read Phi's comment about agr. subs.

 

Agricultural subsidies.

 

True.

Phi, are you stalking me or something? It seems like you have responded to every one of my posts, however numbered they are... For that matter, I think I'm yet to find any post you haven't been on. You use this site a lot don't you?

[JMJones0424]

I'm not sure if you're looking for a small-scale project for methane production or if you are looking for a simple way to convert methane to methanol. If the latter, do you remember where you heard that it was easy? I'm not sure that that's an accurate statement.

 

Methane production from organic material is easy to do. Provided you maintain an anaerobic environment, it's a natural waste product of anaerobic digestion. Landfills are frequently required to be contained to prevent ground-water contamination from rain run-off, so all they need to do to capture the methane that is naturally produced is incorporate plumbing as the dump is filled to route the gas and cap off the dump with impermeable membranes to prevent the methane from escaping to the atmosphere. You could do something similar in a plastic, sealed 55 gallon drum with a hose attached to the top leading to an inflatable bag. Ensure there are no leaks in your connections. Nearly completely fill the barrel with organic matter and water and wait. You won't produce much, but it'd be a fun project to explore the processes involved. Google searches on methane digesters may give you more ideas, I'm more familiar with them being located at sewage treatment plants, dairies, feedlots, and other locations where you have a tremendous amount of organic waste that needs to be disposed of.

 

I'm not sure you'd be able to produce syngas from methane at home without a tremendous amount of expense, but I could be wrong.

 

However, you can produce wood alcohol from pyrolysis. I use a home-made retort style kiln to produce biochar from waste wood, but I burn off the released hydrocarbons in the process to help make the char, which is the product I'm after. If instead, you remove those products, you can use them for a different use. I'm not sure you'd be able to refine them at home sufficiently to use them in an application that would require relatively pure methanol though. But again, I may be wrong. Do a google search and search youtube for "retort kiln biochar" for some design ideas.

 

Regardless, unless you have a significant quantity of organic waste, I don't think you'll be able to make this an economical proposition, but on a small-scale, it can be an educational project.

[CaptainPanic]

To do some anaerobic digestion, you first need to put all the crap in a closed container - no air can come inside. Then you'll need some piping, and possibly a stirrer. And something to do with the methane.

 

There are off the shelf options (google for [backyard anaerobic digester], or [small scale anaerobic digester])... and some of those websites also explain how to build one. Actually, they explain it much better that I could do.

 

I would also be curious to hear how you can "easily" make methanol from methane. I do not think that is a do-it-yourself kinda experiment.

[John Cuthber]

I'm perfectly certain you can't "easily convert it to methanol", but I'd love to be shown to be wrong.

[chilled_fluorine]

I'm not sure if you're looking for a small-scale project for methane production or if you are looking for a simple way to convert methane to methanol. If the latter, do you remember where you heard that it was easy? I'm not sure that that's an accurate statement.

 

Methane production from organic material is easy to do. Provided you maintain an anaerobic environment, it's a natural waste product of anaerobic digestion. Landfills are frequently required to be contained to prevent ground-water contamination from rain run-off, so all they need to do to capture the methane that is naturally produced is incorporate plumbing as the dump is filled to route the gas and cap off the dump with impermeable membranes to prevent the methane from escaping to the atmosphere. You could do something similar in a plastic, sealed 55 gallon drum with a hose attached to the top leading to an inflatable bag. Ensure there are no leaks in your connections. Nearly completely fill the barrel with organic matter and water and wait. You won't produce much, but it'd be a fun project to explore the processes involved. Google searches on methane digesters may give you more ideas, I'm more familiar with them being located at sewage treatment plants, dairies, feedlots, and other locations where you have a tremendous amount of organic waste that needs to be disposed of.

 

I'm not sure you'd be able to produce syngas from methane at home without a tremendous amount of expense, but I could be wrong.

 

However, you can produce wood alcohol from pyrolysis. I use a home-made retort style kiln to produce biochar from waste wood, but I burn off the released hydrocarbons in the process to help make the char, which is the product I'm after. If instead, you remove those products, you can use them for a different use. I'm not sure you'd be able to refine them at home sufficiently to use them in an application that would require relatively pure methanol though. But again, I may be wrong. Do a google search and search youtube for "retort kiln biochar" for some design ideas.

 

Regardless, unless you have a significant quantity of organic waste, I don't think you'll be able to make this an economical proposition, but on a small-scale, it can be an educational project.

 

I'm looking for a simple way to make methane, it would be convenient to store it as a denser, liquid fuel. I was a little skeptical about the conversion to methanol, although one hydrocarbon to another doesn't sound too outlandish to me. I just picked biogas because I want fuel from my organic matter. If you have better ideas for a decently combustible liquid, I would much prefer them. Did I say anything about syngas? Why did you mention it? I wouldn't care if my methanol was impure, so long as it would burn hot enough, so I'll look for retort kiln biochar.

[Phi for All]

Phi, are you stalking me or something? It seems like you have responded to every one of my posts, however numbered they are... For that matter, I think I'm yet to find any post you haven't been on. You use this site a lot don't you?

I've been a Moderator here at SFN for seven years.

 

And of course I'm stalking you. You happen to discuss Chemistry subjects I feel comfortable joining in. Usually I'm just watching John Cuthber's posts sail right over my head.

[JMJones0424]

Did I say anything about syngas? Why did you mention it?

 

Read the link I provided. Methane to syngas is the first step of methane to methanol.

[chilled_fluorine]

I've been a Moderator here at SFN for seven years.

 

And of course I'm stalking you. You happen to discuss Chemistry subjects I feel comfortable joining in. Usually I'm just watching John Cuthber's posts sail right over my head.

 

Seven years? I must seem like such a noob to you. You should check out science madness sometimes. I came to this forum because the people seem to have a little more common sense and technical background. I thought the people here were nicer too, that is until I met John. Why does he freak over azides so bad? Do you know why he acts so grumpy? John seems to be into all that physics stuff, I've never given much thought to it. Is profanity allowed on this forum? It was on SM. Not that I would go out of my way to use it.

 

Read the link I provided. Methane to syngas is the first step of methane to methanol.

 

Sorry, my mobile browser can't follow your link. Syngas is H2 and CO mix. There's no O in CH4, so I'm assuming it comes from atmos. O2 right? Would you care to detail the conversion process further? I was told it could be done easily, but was not told how it was done. The whole thing intrigues me.

[JMJones0424]

Production of synthesis gas

Today, synthesis gas is most commonly produced from the methane component in natural gas rather than from coal, because it contains hydrogen. Three processes are commercially practiced. At moderate pressures of 4 MPa (40 atm) and high temperatures (around 850 °C), methane reacts with steam on a nickel catalyst to produce syngas according to the chemical equation:

 

CH₄ + H₂O → CO + 3 H₂

 

This reaction, commonly called steam-methane reforming or SMR, is endothermic, and the heat transfer limitations place limits on the size of and pressure in the catalytic reactors used. Methane can also undergo partial oxidation with molecular oxygen (at atmospheric pressure) to produce syngas, as the following equation shows:

 

2 CH₄ + O₂ → 2 CO + 4 H₂

 

This reaction is exothermic, and the heat given off can be used in-situ to drive the steam-methane reforming reaction. When the two processes are combined, it is referred to as autothermal reforming. The high pressures and high temperatures needed for steam-reforming require a greater capital investment in equipment than is needed for a simple partial-oxidation process; however, the energy-efficiency of steam-reforming is higher than for partial-oxidation, unless the waste-heat from partial-oxidation is used.

 

 

Stoichiometry

Stoichiometry for Methanol production requires the ratio of H₂ / CO to equal 2. The partial oxidation process yields a ratio of 2, and the steam reforming process yields a ratio of 3. The H₂ / CO ratio can be adjusted to some extent by the water-gas shift reaction,

 

CO + H₂O → CO₂ + H₂,

 

to provide the appropriate stoichiometry for methanol synthesis.

 

 

Production of methanol from synthesis gas

Carbon monoxide and hydrogen react on a second catalyst to produce methanol. Today, the most widely used catalyst is a mixture of copper, zinc oxide, and alumina first used by ICI in 1966. At 5–10 MPa (50–100 atm) and 250 °C, it can catalyze the production of methanol from carbon monoxide and hydrogen with high selectivity (>99.8%):

 

CO + 2 H₂ → CH₃OH

 

It is worth noting that the production of synthesis gas from methane produces three moles of hydrogen gas for every mole of carbon monoxide, while the methanol synthesis consumes only two moles of hydrogen gas per mole of carbon monoxide. One way of dealing with the excess hydrogen is to inject carbon dioxide into the methanol synthesis reactor, where it, too, reacts to form methanol according to the equation:

 

CO₂ + 3 H₂ → CH₃OH + H₂O

 

Some chemists believe that the certain catalysts synthesize methanol using CO₂ as an intermediary, and consuming CO only indirectly.

 

CO₂ + 3 H₂ → CH₃OH + H₂O

 

where the H₂O byproduct is recycled via the water-gas shift reaction

 

CO + H₂O → CO₂ + H₂,

 

This gives an overall reaction, which is the same as listed above.

 

CO + 2 H₂ → CH₃OH

[Phi for All]

Seven years? I must seem like such a noob to you.

In the Chem sections, I read much more than I write, and I still seem like a noob to me.

 

You should check out science madness sometimes.

Oh, I have.

 

I came to this forum because the people seem to have a little more common sense and technical background.

See answer above.

 

I thought the people here were nicer too, that is until I met John. Why does he freak over azides so bad? Do you know why he acts so grumpy? John seems to be into all that physics stuff, I've never given much thought to it.

John Cuthber is British, and they have that socialized medicine where you go in for preventative visits a lot, so he's probably seen the results of too many people who didn't freak out enough over azides. He's nice enough if you stay on his good side, which rotates on an algorithmic schedule,

 

Why does he act so grumpy? Well, again, he's British, so it's no act. It rains a lot, so they all have a grump for every day of the week, and some of their grumps have those little suede patches sewn on the elbows, for when they're feeling academically grumpy. And, despite all the denial by the Windsors, John Cuthber is the real King of England. Pulled some sword out of a stone, but can't get the Palace to listen. That would make anyone grumpy.

 

As for the physics, well, sometimes the crazy gets hold of people and makes them think being well-versed in many areas makes them more valuable than the rest of us. Which makes it difficult for the rest of us to sell our over-unity devices and chemical-free body lotions.

 

Is profanity allowed on this forum? It was on SM. Not that I would go out of my way to use it.

We deny no one the use of their crutches, but must point out that many parents of middle-schoolers watch for just such out-of-your-way uses to block their offspring from our Homework Help sections. And we generally find that avoiding personal attacks makes profanity seem out of place and rather forced.

[alpha2cen]

Wikipedia article on methanol said:

Carbon monoxide and hydrogen react on a second catalyst to produce methanol. Today, the most widely used catalyst is a mixture of copper, zinc oxide, and alumina first used by ICI in 1966. At 5–10 MPa (50–100 atm) and 250 °C, it can catalyze the production of methanol from carbon monoxide and hydrogen with high selectivity (>99.8%):

 

CO + 2 H₂ → CH₃OH

 

Conversion and selectivity are depended on the reactant flow rate and temperature.

During the operation carbon deposition is a problem. It decreases the catalyst activity.

Edited August 22, 2012 by alpha2cen

[chilled_fluorine]

You article looks accurate enough, but I figure I'd tell you it really sets me of when people cite Wikipedia as a reference. Just don't do it again, and stop muddying up my post with Wikipedia crap.

[John Cuthber]

"Why does he freak over azides so bad?!

Because every dead home experimenter makes it easier for the government to make it even more difficult to get hold of chemicals to play with.

 

I also freak out badly over people who can't tell an adjective from an adverb or when to use apostrophes.

 

 

I wonder is it's one of those transatlantic things, but I don't think of " At 5–10 MPa (50–100 atm) and 250 °C, it can catalyze the production of methanol " as doing it easily in the context of "a practical apparatus for home production. " .

Edited August 22, 2012 by John Cuthber

[chilled_fluorine]

I'm not sure if you're looking for a small-scale project for methane production or if you are looking for a simple way to convert methane to methanol. If the latter, do you remember where you heard that it was easy? I'm not sure that that's an accurate statement.

 

Methane production from organic material is easy to do. Provided you maintain an anaerobic environment, it's a natural waste product of anaerobic digestion. Landfills are frequently required to be contained to prevent ground-water contamination from rain run-off, so all they need to do to capture the methane that is naturally produced is incorporate plumbing as the dump is filled to route the gas and cap off the dump with impermeable membranes to prevent the methane from escaping to the atmosphere. You could do something similar in a plastic, sealed 55 gallon drum with a hose attached to the top leading to an inflatable bag. Ensure there are no leaks in your connections. Nearly completely fill the barrel with organic matter and water and wait. You won't produce much, but it'd be a fun project to explore the processes involved. Google searches on methane digesters may give you more ideas, I'm more familiar with them being located at sewage treatment plants, dairies, feedlots, and other locations where you have a tremendous amount of organic waste that needs to be disposed of.

 

I'm not sure you'd be able to produce syngas from methane at home without a tremendous amount of expense, but I could be wrong.

 

However, you can produce wood alcohol from pyrolysis. I use a home-made retort style kiln to produce biochar from waste wood, but I burn off the released hydrocarbons in the process to help make the char, which is the product I'm after. If instead, you remove those products, you can use them for a different use. I'm not sure you'd be able to refine them at home sufficiently to use them in an application that would require relatively pure methanol though. But again, I may be wrong. Do a google search and search youtube for "retort kiln biochar" for some design ideas.

 

Regardless, unless you have a significant quantity of organic waste, I don't think you'll be able to make this an economical proposition, but on a small-scale, it can be an educational project.

People don't think they can get much organic waste, that is until they go down to a corn farm and ask for 500 kg's of corn stalks, at which time the owners gladly comply.

[alpha2cen]

Catalytic reaction is not simple. Even two reactant CO and H2 is supplied into the reactor, many products are produced depends on catalyst particle size, residence time, temperature and pressure. Long residence time occurs many side reaction.

[CaptainPanic]

!

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