DNA analogous to code?

[ydoaPs]

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Edited August 31, 2012 by ydoaPs

[chilehed]

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/code#English

definitions 1, 4,5 and maybe even 6 apply to DNA:

 

Nucleic acid bases can certainly be construed as symbols that, when read in a specific sequence, represent amino acids. DNA sequences definitely has rules for converting information into another form (DNA -> RNA -> AAs), although these rules aren't set as explicitly as man-made codes the molecular result is largely the same. 5 and 6 are applications of the other definitions that loosely apply here.

By that reasoning every non-noble atom or molecule is a code; it stretches the definition so far that it makes the term meaningless. A warm front in the Canary Islands is code for a hurricane in the Americas, Reynolds' number is code for the wavelength of the sand ripples in shallow water, a pile of chicken crap is code for green grass...

 

You seem to be confusing "information" with "meaning". They aren't the same.

 

This doesn't follow logically from what I said: "words are vibrations in air", but this does not imply that all vibrating air molecules can be construed as words. Only a small subset of vibration frequencies can be interpreted by the ear and brain as speech and this is limited by physics and cultural context.

What you actually said was "But, if DNA is just a molecule, then words are just vibrating air molecules", which is manifestly false for at least two reasons. The reason that's relevant to this conversation being that, to the extent spoken words are vibrations in the air, they're not just vibrations in the air, they're vibrations that convey the abstract thought that someone wishes to communicate. Words are code because they signify something else, and that's the common link between all of those definitions (including mine). But DNA has no such significance.

 

Well I agree that not all created things have meaning. White noise can be generated but may not contain meaning as speech would. I just don't see how you took that as my meaning.

It was because you said that words were just vibrations in the air, which they are not.

 

 

I agreed that the proposition that has yet to be proven AKA the burden of proof to demonstrate the premise is on the one stating the premise.

You seem to be missing the point that because the question is "was DNA created by a mind", to use "DNA wasn't created by a mind" as a premise begs the question, and is thus a fallacy.

 

As for my objection that you were committing an error of definition, I was confounding my point about meaning being a key property of a code (with which you disagree, and which by definition means that all code are created by a mind) with what you said about DNA being both a code and not created.

[StrontiDog]

Hello all,

 

Recently, I came across this argument for the existence of god:

 

1) DNA is a code

2) All codes we know the origin of are created by a mind

3) So, DNA was created by a mind

 

 

Try this argument, navig8tr. . . . .

 

Start by asking if they even know what DNA is, because it is not a code. It is more like a template or even a stencil for protein synthesis.

 

Call it 'Science's Mistake' (The average Creationist will like that line. . .) that we ever even coined the term 'Genetic Code.' It is a misnomer that refers more to sequencing order, than anything else. And lightning bug flashes have a sequence. . .but that's not a code created by a mind, now is it?

 

If the stencil is damaged, the cell might still make protiens but they will be the wrong ones and will do the wrong thing. . . .sometimes we call this 'Cancer.' (There are many other examples, but this one is something they've probably heard about.)

 

By obviating the major premise of the syllogism, it falls apart. Mentioning the 'junk code,' will also help.

 

Good luck.

[Jens]

1) DNA is a code

2) All codes we know the origin of are created by a mind

3) So, DNA was created by a mind

 

From my point of view it is fair to state that DNA is a form of code.

But point 2 is simply false. There are at least two known cases (A + B):

 

A) Evolution is exactly a way of how codes with certain function can evolve without a mind designing it. It is just our brain which is optimized for seeing an intent behind everyhting which moves (like accusing the god Thor for creating the thunder -- which nobody today claims to be true any more, but which was accepted public opinion in the past.). Simply because evolution is slow and you cannot see it with your eyes, does no mean it does not exist. (Look in the evolution forum for more details.)

 

B) The human immuno system: For better understanding I simplify here the well known process (but without changing the essential part of it for this discussion -- so the immunology experts please forgive me): Antibodies are proteins coded by a piece of DNA in specific human cells of the immuno system. Every antibody producing cell is producing just one type of antibody and not a mixture. If your are infected, the body is producing (after around 2 weeks) an enormous amount of antibodies, which are perfectly "designed" to bind exactly to the bacteria/virus you are infected with (which was of course unknown at time of your birth). There are in principle nearly endless amount of different antibodies possible, which all are coded by a specific piece of DNA. All those variants are much more than you can store within the DNA you had in the ovule (human egg cell). Which mind has "designed" the DNA which is coding for those antibodies then? The answer is: there was no mind designing it:

- B1 random production: The body is simply producing many millions of different cells with many millions of different random DNA in some parts of the antibody DNA (by combining pieces in random combinations)

- B2 selection: The body is killing those cells which produce antibodies against human cells.

- B3 selection: Out of the rest only those a triggered for strong proliferation which actually interact with something (which then must be alien and is considered as hostile)

- B4 proliferation: The proliferation takes about two weeks (and some of those cells survive in quiet state after this infection so the next time the bacterium/virus is coming back the body will hit much quicker. This is why you do not get this desease again.)

 

Evolution works in a similar way. (B1: You have mutation instead of random production. B2+3: Only one phase of selection and B4: reproduction instead of proliferation.)

 

DNA code which looks like designed is created in your body every day, without a mind designing the "correct" antibodies.

 

Hope this helps in your discussions.....