Behavioral Modification / Neurological Bioengineering

[Kindria2000]

Well, this is my first post, and I hope someone likes it.

 

What I am currently working on is writing a paper on the possabilities of disabling negative behavior through reconstruction of the human brain by administering a concentrated plant extract to disable negative neural transmissions. Of course, so far my theory is quite vauge, but cut me some slack, I'm 16.

 

Anyway, when a neurotransmitter binds to a receptor on the postsynaptic side of the synapse, it changes the postsynaptic cell's excitability, meaning it makes the postsynaptic cell either more or less likely to fire an action potential. If the number of excitatory postsynaptic events is large enough, they will add to cause an action potential in the postsynaptic cell and a continuation of the "message." Like I said, I am hoping to use a plant extract to disable this action from occuring. . One of the chemicals that I am currently looking at is anatoxin. Anatoxin is a potent neurotoxic alkaloid found in the form of blue-green algae. It is a white crystalline derivative of choline, C7H17NO3, that is released at the ends of nerve fibers in the somatic and parasympathetic nervous systems and is involved in the transmission of nerve impulses in the body. Despite its poisonous nature, anatoxin is being used in medicine and for pharmacological applications. Since it binds the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor irreversibly, it is an excellent means of studying this receptor, and also the mechanisms of neuromuscular action. Although it is a severe neurotoxin, I think that if you use a small enough ammount of it you might just acheve the result of a disabled transmission. The result being the disablment of negative feelings.

 

Now this is only a small example of the concept that I am focusing on, but I'm sure you get the idea If you have any input or questions, please do not hesitate. I need as much feedback as possible! Thank you for reading my very first post (is so proud)

[blike]

How do you differentiate which neurons are involved with negative feelings and which ones are involved in positive feelings?

[Kindria2000]

::giggles:: Well, thats one of the problems I'm still working on. Basically.... ya cant yet. Thats the setback I'm currently reviewing. >_< I am assuming that there is a chemical difference, but again, I cant say.

[badchad]

In addition to the most obvious problem which Blike stated above.

 

Look into the "blood brain barrier", and decide how it will get into the brain.

[Kindria2000]

Well I was considering a direct injection to the brain. Time for some more research. (for future refrence, dont mind my spelling)

[Drug addict]

here's a few articles on drug transport across the blood brain barrier:

 

http://www.pharmj.com/pdf/articles/pj_20041002_newdrugtechnologies03.pdf

http://www.pharmj.com/Editorial/20041009/comment/lett11.html

http://www.pharmj.com/Editorial/20041023/comment/lett13.html

 

hope they are of some use

[Kindria2000]

Yay! thankse

[Molotov]

Sounds like a chemical lobotomy

[Kindria2000]

Yeah thats pretty much the whole concept. I thought of it when I was doing research on the whole lobotimy process earlier this year (did you know that JFK's older sister was lobotomized?!)

[Kindria2000]

Ok well I've added included about four long paragraphs about the BBB. This is getting to be a really good paper, bu I need some more help! anyone have anymore ideas?

[badchad]

Well, what blike said in post #2 is still you're largest problem. How will you identify neurons involved in "positive" versus "negative" feelings?

 

Also umm, are you writing this paper just for practice and your own interest? (whats the purpose).

[coquina]

When Kindria says "negative behavior" what does she mean? For example, craving and acquiring food is a positive behavior in a person who is starving and a negative one in someone who is obese.

 

However, assuming that one could focus on a behavior that is always negative, could a PET scan be used to determine which parts of the brain are activated by a person practicing said "negative behavior"?

[ecoli]

Where are you doing this research. Are you planning on entering competitions? Are you allwed to injeect things in peoples brains?

[Peels]

When Kindria says "negative behavior" what does she mean? For example, craving and acquiring food is a positive behavior in a person who is starving and a negative one in someone who is obese.

This is a very good point.

 

Kindria2000, I think you may need to rethink your theoretical basis about this paper. If you create a human with only positive behavior, what will be the consequence? Say, if you persuade her to eat your favorite icecream, she might very well not stop eating until she, herself, becomes icecream.

[Kindria2000]

Ohh well #1, this is a paper based on my own intrests, but I'm getting school credit for it, #2 when I mean negative behavior I mean violent and distructive behavor. #3 I'm not really concerned with the moral consequences. I'm doing this purely based on my own intrests. Now, obviously I still need to find a way to differentiate which neurons are involved with positive and negative emotions/actions. (mmmm...icecream beings... so tastey ^_~)

[ecoli]

How will you measure which neurons are being fired? Are you doing this research at university/hospital with PET scan capabilities? Will you use the radioactive tracers?

[MadScientist]

I'd like to see a list of negative behaviour patterns.

 

Is fear a negative behaviour??

I'm afraid of public speaking, obviously that's negative.

I'm also afraid of being eaten by sharks, falling off cliffs, being shot by criminals etc... I believe those to be positive behaviour patterns all based on fear.

So you can't block fear completely.

 

Is attraction is a positve behaviour??

Obviously it is because I'm attracted to the opposite sex. Being "gay" wouldn't be negative because that would mean I'm attracted to the same sex and still a positive behaviour because I don't end up growing old all alone...

But I'm attracted to cigarettes, this is a negative behaviour..

 

I don't see how a chemical additive to my brain could be clever enough to figure out which is positive and which is negative. I'm a smoker, obviously I'm clever enough to realise how insane that behaviour is but I still smoke. I can understand some of Einsteins theories and I still can't decide which is negative and positive....

 

IMO it would be better to increase rational thought processes so people could think clearer and see what is negative and positive behaviour.

[Quixix]

There is not such a thing as positive and negative behaviour and I think you are waisting your valuable time.

OUr brain evolved during millions of years and the behaviour that helped survival stayed with us.

1.-WHat is positive in some conditions, is negative in others and you can not eliminate from your brain those emotions that are genetically built in. You may damage an organ such as the amygdala and loose fear emotions. But this will make you too bold and will not make you capable of taking the right decisions. Take away the reactions to stimulus that give rise to our motivations and values and you will have a thoroughtly disconcerted individual.

2.- What was a desirable mechanism of stimulation and reward in the preagricultural hunting society, may not be adequate for todays forms of living. The continuous stress of todays civilization is different from the occasional stress of our hunting days, and our circuits suffer from it.

But mans inventiveness is faster than evolution.

Perhaps a genetic alteration could aid along, but I believe, not only that we do not know which mechanisms should be modified, but that we wouldn't at these time, know how to do it.

My conclusion is that it would be smarter to try to live more according to what we are, after we underdtand well enough what that is.

Best wishe for the new year.

Pau

[Kindria2000]

Well no-one cares what you think I'm doing this for my own personal gratification (and school credit) and its all in theory. I'm not going to actually attempt it (ok I might...)

[Quixix]

You are again wrong, some people do care what I think. Some actually ask.

Self gratification, uh?. Well, you are about the age the right age for plentiful indulgence.

[Ophiolite]

Well no-one cares what you think I'm doing this for my own personal gratification (and school credit) and its all in theory. I'm not going to actually attempt it (ok I might...)

Kindria, if you plan to pursue a career in science one of the most important things you will need to learn is the importance of criticism, especially when it is well reasoned like Quixix's post.

One could write a nice essay about how science is criticism. The scientist considers a new hypothesis. He probes it for weaknesses. He sets up an experiment, discussing the details with colleagues who rigorously criticise it. The experiment is conducted and the results critically appraised. A paper is written and critiqued by colleagues. It is submitted for publication and subject to peer review. Once published it is subject to further criticism, that may continue for years or decades.

At no time, if she has any sense, does the scientist say to any of her critics " Well no-one cares what you think ".

 

Good luck with your project.

 

 

.

[Kindria2000]

Wow... does no-one here get joking sarcasm?!!! Anyway, I understand his point of view. I'm just saying that I'm trying to get as much info to positivly further my research paper. I already have enough negative input for my peers as well as myself, trust me. I'm just getting a little agitated. I keep repeating myself in other areas and no-one is really paying attention. BY NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR I MEAN VIOLENT TENDANCIES! I'm not asking whether or not eating icecream or cutting ones-self is a negative behavior, I'm trying to find a way that I might be able to target a part of the brain that possibly produces (produces doesnt seem like the right word...) violent tendancies. Everything that I am doing is thoretical and there is no way that I can test this at this point in time. I understand that in all likelyhood this is not possible, but I dont want to take that for an answer.

[Quixix]

Wow... does no-one here get joking sarcasm?!!! Anyway, I understand his point of view. I'm just saying that I'm trying to get as much info to positivly[/b'] further my research paper. I already have enough negative input for my peers as well as myself, trust me. I'm just getting a little agitated. I keep repeating myself in other areas and no-one is really paying attention. BY NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR I MEAN VIOLENT TENDANCIES! I'm not asking whether or not eating icecream or cutting ones-self is a negative behavior, I'm trying to find a way that I might be able to target a part of the brain that possibly produces (produces doesnt seem like the right word...) violent tendancies. Everything that I am doing is thoretical and there is no way that I can test this at this point in time. I understand that in all likelyhood this is not possible, but I dont want to take that for an answer.

Something for you to think about:

Difference between irony and sarcasm.

For the sake of your paper, you must also clear yourself about when you talk about "tendancies" (perhaps you mean tendencies?), and when you talk about behaviour. Whereas behaviour is a well defined and observable phenomena, tendencies, to me, is not a concrete term applicable to the mind, and therefore is difficult to study. We have emotions such as hate, anger, etc, whic have been studied, that may or may not produce violent behaviour. But and I insist, violent behaviour is not necessrily negative. It is adequate and necessary in certain cases. It is true that indiscriminate violent behaviour is undesirable, probably in all kind of cases.

The regions of the brain that are active when experiencing the above emotions, have been studied with the different methods available, and you would have no doubt success running a search for them. It is another matter when you try to investigate how those emotions translate themselves into a given behaviour and when not. The "fight or run" dilemma. Here innumerable factors enter the equation, inborn circuits and learned neuronal circuits. The final behaviour depends on the balance between those factors.

[UCF-Forensic]

Although an interesting topic I think that the benefits of such research would be better spent elsewehere.

 

I read a new york times psychology article for one of my earlier psych classes on how a woman who had a tumor in her brain, and had her amygdala removed, and as a concequence she did not know how to interpret feelings of fear and anger.

 

I agree with earlier posts, I do not believe that there are such things as negative and positive behavior patterns. Need I unearth "A clockwork orange"? Honestly if you haven't seen it I highly suggest you do before proceding with your research. Certain responses can be deemed positive in some arenas, and sometimes negative. If you don't want to watch A clockwork orange, Shoot me a PM, or AIM me on Shad0wK24. Note the O is a zero.

 

::Edit:: VIOLENT TENDENCIES can be viewed as positive responses in some arenas, as well as negative in otheres. It merely relies on context. If you shut down those responses, it will be like taking candy from a baby....quite literally...

 

Agree / disagree??

[Kindria2000]

ummmm never heard of it... Meh, next time I'm online I'll be sure to IM you. But anyway, if there was a way to stop a convicted man/woman from committing violent acts such as murder or rape, wouldnt you want to try and find it? I'm not saying that if you could stop it that you would stop everyone from having emotions. I just like the idea of maybe stopping a known alcoholic from beating their spouses or children. Things like that.