open/closed mind

[Vicious101]

me and a friend have been fighting over this one

 

she says im closed minded (and im not) just cause i know ghosts dæmons etc don’t exist that’s just what i think she says they do

 

i have looked into it i have tried to find out why things call her name and grab her etc from no where i came to the conclusion that its just her mind and spasms (grabbing)

 

she is calling me closed minded and its very insulting she on the other hand wont listen to anything i have to say explaining it

 

then she gets upset when i say that she is being ignorant

 

can someone elaborate on this for us?

[TimeTraveler]

By the sounds of it both of you are being closed minded. The trick to being open minded is: believing something but consideration that an alternative is possible.

 

It's amazing how intelligent we think we are when we know so little about the universe.

[Tesseract]

By the sounds of it both of you are being closed minded. The trick to being open minded is: believing something but consideration that an alterantive is possible.

 

It's amazing how intelligent we think we are when we know so little about the universe.

We are more intelligent than anything else we know of in the universe as of yet.

[TimeTraveler]

We are more intelligent than anything else we know of in the universe as of yet.

 

And we may very well be the most intelligent creatures in the universe. But that is not my point, my point is the universe is so far beyond our intelligence when there is alot more we do not know than we do know.

[Tesseract]

And we may very well be the most intelligent creatures in the universe. But that is not my point, my point is the universe is so far beyond our intelligence when there is alot more we do not know than we do know.

were not even talking about the universe, but you cant say were not intelligent even though we dont know 99.999% about the universe.

[Vicious101]

believing something but consideration that an alternative is possible.

 

thats what ive been telling her lol but first im trying to get it through that it could be possible

 

like i said i looked around some and im leaning too not real but im still open for real proof lol

[TimeTraveler]

were not even talking about the universe,

 

When I think of ghosts I think of echoes from alternate dimensions. Not saying I believe in this but it is how I would percieve it to be as an explination of ghosts, so in that sense we were talking about the universe.

 

but you cant say were not intelligent even though we dont know 99.999% about the universe.

 

You are totally misinterpreting what I am saying. I do not recall ever saying we are not intelligent? We are just not as intelligent as we like to believe we are. Sorry for the confusion if it was my fault.

[sepultallica]

me and a friend have been fighting over this one

 

she says im closed minded (and im not) just cause i know ghosts dæmons etc don’t exist that’s just what i think she says they do

 

i have looked into it i have tried to find out why things call her name and grab her etc from no where i came to the conclusion that its just her mind and spasms (grabbing)

 

she is calling me closed minded and its very insulting she on the other hand wont listen to anything i have to say explaining it

 

then she gets upset when i say that she is being ignorant

 

can someone elaborate on this for us?

 

when i find that im on a side of a topic that isnt going well for me, i try to jump to the other side and ask myself, if i did believe (in ghosts in your case) then what would be some of the reasons as to why i would believe. i try to see if i could convince myself. your freind my be experiencing some phsycological problems that we....

 

like i said, i dont believe in them but to tell you the truth, if it were proven that they did exist i wouldnt be surprised one bit. you know how many people claim to have seen ghosts?

[sepultallica]

oh yeah, and by you declaring that ghosts dont exist, you are in a sense being closed minded. about it.

[Vicious101]

oh yeah, and by you declaring that ghosts dont exist, you are in a sense being closed minded. about it.

 

thats an opinion not being closed minded

 

 

yes alot of people so beleave in them but i havent seen one for myself

 

its like aliens they exsist? id say yes have they viststed us? maybe

 

im open to the fact that if you can show a dæmon or a ghost or w/e cause we cant prove they DONT exsist but you cant prove they do eather cause people have only SEEN them its like bigfoot

[Ophiolite]

oh yeah' date=' and by you declaring that ghosts dont exist, you are in a sense being closed minded. about it.

[/quote']

thats an opinion not being closed minded

It sounds pretty well closed minded to me. Especially given the fact that ghosts do exist. What is is being debated is the nature of the ghosts. You feel they are due to imagination and spasms. Your friend believes they are departed spirits. Begin with that common ground, ghosts exist, then explore the possible explanations for them.

[Verusamore]

Closed minded is not listening .

Open minded is is about listening .

 

You both can't agree then you both are close minded .

 

The tip for a good relationship is not say anything about what your beliefs are unless what you believe is the same as your partners .

[Mokele]

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it"

-Aristotle

 

Whether you can come to an agreement is irrelevant. What determines an open or closed mind is if you are willing to genuinely listen to someone's arguements and consider their merits independent of your opinions.

 

Now, that doesn't mean you have to accept them. You can listen and consider, and still find their arguement is a load of fecal matter with no supporting logic or data.

 

But if you listened and considered it, rather than just dismissing it out of hand because you'd already made up your mind, then you're still open-minded, even if you reject their theory.

 

That's pretty much all it is: listening without bias.

 

And remember, skeptic does not equate to closed-minded.

 

Mokele

[Verusamore]

*Yawns*

You make this sounds like a complex thing to understand .

[Sayonara]

Looks to me like he's demonstrating a layer of complexity that you dismissed.

 

How ironic.

[swansont]

It sounds pretty well closed minded to me. Especially given the fact that ghosts do exist. What is is being debated is the nature of the ghosts. You feel they are due to imagination and spasms. Your friend believes they are departed spirits. Begin with that common ground, ghosts exist, then explore the possible explanations for them.

 

No, saying that ghosts exist is not being open-minded, it's being uncritical. The default position is that ghosts don't exist. If you want someone to accept that they do you must present evidence.

[Verusamore]

sayo ,

When you agree it is simply translated ,as I understood ; 'listen without bias' ,'nod' then consider there merits independant of yours .

, how did I dismiss anything I was merely being critical on expression .

 

I would also mention that it is hard to give merit when the thought going through your head about what there saying is 'fecal matter ' , how can you sound geniune when you are contradicting thought & expression , body language & signals are what proves them not geniune and I can prove it.

 

This is critical ( not closed minded ) as the what the story is saying is , a closed minded response will lead to criticism ,the person at fault is the one who starts it, here is a story .

 

The other day I had a disagreement with a customer service representative, I complained to her boss that attitude to the job was disgusting by the way she handled me , I'm not going to explain why she gave me attitude but I insist that I was always polite & manneristic and in no way wrong about my criticism .

 

So we discussed together with the boss what my problem was and I explained to her , she relized the problem and she said sorry , I was happy with that but when she walked away she shook her head and slammed the door behind her ,she agreed with me alright but it was in no way geniuine ,this kind of example is what I mean by what is mentioned in second paragraph.

 

The next time I went in , I left a water bottle in front of the customer service counter and walked away to collect something , when I came back it was gone ,I asked the other attendant "did you see anyone come and collected the water bottle " he said "no" then I replied " are you sure you did not see someone take a water bottle the time I was away " then what came to me next made me want to jump the counter , he said " NO , I dont know and Dont care ! " .

 

I threatened him with a comment about his attitude and he went quiete very quickly and walked into the backroom, giving this guy was like in his mid 40's it didn't matter ,professionally it is not acceptable especially when your old enough to know how to go about .

 

This is why I disagree ,she gave me attitude I responded with criticism , this does not make me closed minded as I was open to judgement from what there responses are ,I expect the same back when I do wrong but I don't expect it when Im polite and manneristic .

[iglak]

This is why I disagree ,she gave me attitude I responded with criticism , this does not make me closed minded as I was open to judgement from what there responses are ,I expect the same back when I do wrong but I don't expect it when Im polite and manneristic .

what are you disagreeing on?

your story, with your ending, supports entirely what Mokele was saying.

it does not, however, support your own argument of "You both can't agree then you both are close minded ."

 

what is ironic is you saying "You make this sounds like a complex thing to understand ." yet you don't really understand what Mokele was saying (i'm not sure if you do or not, but your arguments don't support that you do).

 

and actually, there are a couple other ironic things:

that you are being somewhat closed minded about Mokele's argument (infering from your posts).

and, in actuality you are the one that is making it complex, Mokele is making it simpler.

[Verusamore]

"what are you disagreeing on?"

>"she gave me attitude I responded with criticism" " I don't expect it when Im polite and manneristic"

This means her behaviour was disgusting if you would read it properly , this is why I disagree with her .

 

I read Mokels statement clearly and understood it just I thought it was rather complex ,though I AGREED ( You were right not to doubt that iglak ,good to see ), I only mentioned criticism since he made a complex out of it ,as he has some emotional tension left which is starting to affect the way some people see me especially from the quite recent arguments not so long ago which he saw me to be a homophobe (a pressumption) ..

 

IT SEEMS also the ones who respond to this are the people trying to make me sound like the enemy around here ..

 

I know most people don't like people like me but at least I can admit I'm not a nice person when it comes to criticism as I may break a couple of nails .

I can be a friendly person only if the person speaks the truth or is genuine ,not appearing to be so .

 

I'm use to criticism , I expect people to be the same also or else you just sound like soft headed flunked pop idols having a cry ,sorry but that is the way I see it when scientists cannot admit the truth.

 

Make criticism about me much as you want ,I don't have an ego to defend as I'm not in anyway hurt by your deliberations but I'm surely to learn off it.

 

"You make this sounds like a complex thing to understand ."

Ironic ???

 

>Now if I sound complex - " 'listen without bias' ,'nod' then consider there merits independant of yours" - really is it ?

 

I disagreed as there was contradiction involved with expression & thought by Mokel ,that meaning was right and I agreed but the means of how it came was perplexing.

 

The story was to explain the disagreement to why I think Mokels statement should have been written more truthfully then what he expresses from his feelings which are still unresolved ,maybe symptoms of some cognitive dissonance.

 

Iglak , by saying that I'm closed minded and also icknowledging with a prior statement you gave me " I'm not sure if you do or not, but your arguments don't support that you do " is contradictory and assumptious since you gave me your own fact that Im closed minded but yet unsure of another detail ,thats ok as I will explain , I was agreeing and simplified what he meant in laymans just I was giving criticism with what I just explained in above paragraph .

----------------------------------

"if you are willing to genuinely listen to someone's arguements"

"that doesn't mean you have to accept them. You can listen and consider, and still find their arguement is a load of fecal matter"

 

I only saw how the story contradicted and yes I was critical about it I saw the words " Geniune", "Agreeing" then something about "not accepting" , this is why I mentioned the story .I compared the story which showed with an expected a geniune apology that I asked for , which I thought being the TRUTH didn't match up to be anything genuine when she walked away shaking her head and slamming the door this is the contradiction of thought expression .

[iglak]

ah, i misunderstood who you were disagreeing with. i thought you were disagreeing with Mokele in the paragraph i was refering to.

 

i think i just didn't understand your argument. it seems to me that you are contradicting yourself....

 

Make criticism about me much as you want ,I don't have an ego to defend as I'm not in anyway hurt by your deliberations but I'm surely to learn off it.

good, i did not mean to be offensive or hurtful.

[Verusamore]

oh , that "quote" was not directed to you but act as a reminder to those who share the same intentional feeling toward the comments made to ridicule me .

[Mokele]

I only mentioned criticism since he made a complex out of it ,as he has some emotional tension left which is starting to affect the way some people see me especially from the quite recent arguments not so long ago

 

You do realize that I have better things to focus my mind on than a petty arguement that's long since over, right?

 

Simply assuming that my post *must* be motivated by strong feelings about you is a foolish assumption, without basis or logic.

 

Sorry to break it to you, but you simply aren't that important. I have far more pressing concerns than a minor tiff on a messageboard with a random person.

 

Mokele

[Ophiolite]

No, saying that ghosts exist is not being open-minded, it's being uncritical. The default position is that ghosts don't exist. If you want someone to accept that they do you must present evidence.

Swansont, I ask you to re-read my post. I am declaring that ghosts exist in the same way that UFO's exist, i.e. there is a phenomenom ( possibly phenomena) , whose nature is ill-defined, that has (have) been observed by many persons.

I don't think you are denying that people claim to have seen ghosts, so clearly there is some phenomena to be investigated. I have no doubt in my mind, based upon extensive review of the research, coupled with personal experience, that ghosts are a form of hallucination, or occasionally fraud.

I would not normally have phrased it in this way, but in this instance was seeking to provide Vicious101 with some common ground with his friend.