spinny-winny spacey-wacey stuff

[ydoaPs]

This thread got me wondering. What's with all of the rotation? Is it conservation of angular momentum and the singularity was spinning?

[MigL]

What singularity are you talking about ?

 

Any two objects whose velocities are offset by any amount ( ie not in-line ) will, on collapsing together gravitationally, conserve angular momentum. They will speed up their rotation as they draw together, just as a skater does when he/she draws in his/her arms. A large air mass, huge gas cloud or galaxy with hardly any rotation, will show appreciable rotation ( spirality ) upon pressure or gravitational collapse to a hurricane, solar system or spiral galaxy.

[StringJunky]

What singularity are you talking about ?

 

Any two objects whose velocities are offset by any amount ( ie not in-line ) will, on collapsing together gravitationally, conserve angular momentum. They will speed up their rotation as they draw together, just as a skater does when he/she draws in his/her arms. A large air mass, huge gas cloud or galaxy with hardly any rotation, will show appreciable rotation ( spirality ) upon pressure or gravitational collapse to a hurricane, solar system or spiral galaxy.

 

Is a galaxy spiralling inwards or outwards energy direction-wise?

[StringJunky]

Found this simulation of galaxy formation:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VQBzdcFkB7w

[MigL]

Maybe a bad choice of words on my part. A galaxy is not spiraling inward or outward as it is gravitationally bound, it is rotating, and the different angular speeds along its radius give rise to its spirality.

[Ronald Hyde]

Is a galaxy spiralling inwards or outwards energy direction-wise?

 

Astronomers have actually looked at the spiral arms of the Milky Way, and they see good old Hydrogen streaming inward.

Remembering that [latex]E = MC^2[/latex], and Hydrogen has mass, adding the premiss that energy is conserved, and accepting that

experimental evidence is to be respected as having some validity, I think you can reach a correct deduction

[JohnStu]

This thread got me wondering. What's with all of the rotation? Is it conservation of angular momentum and the singularity was spinning?

 

 

 

Rotation? Galaxies are not all spiral. The epliptical galaxies are not rotating like a disk.

[Ronald Hyde]

Rotation? Galaxies are not all spiral. The epliptical galaxies are not rotating like a disk.

 

You're not up to date on your galaxy observations picture.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

 

Our galaxy contains several structures including a halo, which is really an elliptical part. Other galaxies have been seen to have more than two parts.

Because the spiral is 'low brightness' it might be seen from afar as an elliptical.

[ACG52]

You're not up to date on your galaxy observations picture.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

 

Our galaxy contains several structures including a halo, which is really an elliptical part. Other galaxies have been seen to have more than two parts.

Because the spiral is 'low brightness' it might be seen from afar as an elliptical.

 

 

Do you make this up as you go along?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptical_galaxy

[Ronald Hyde]

Do you make this up as you go along?

http://en.wikipedia....liptical_galaxy

 

This is very much a work in progress sir. Thank you for the nice picture, any actual physical information that anyone provides is helpful.

Yes, we make it up as we go along. That is how actual Physics is done. Some people call it insight, some creativity, some art, some science.

You are seeing how it's done, right before your very eyes at it were. But you do not seem to appreciate or understand it. Steven Weinberg

said "There are Magicians and there are Logicians", and I knew exactly what he meant, for I knew very well that he was both a logician

and a magician, and quite good at it too. But I know that I can be them too, and have been able to since an early age. Weinberg's cherubic

and cheerful manner hides a very insightful mind.

 

It's called insight because it always involves new ways of looking at things. Some of the old ways of looking at things have to be modified, or

even discarded. The 'shifting of paradigms' is a popular phrase.

 

You and I are practically of a different species. You are by all indications a linear thinker, I am a nonlinear thinker. Linear thinkers can be very

uncomfortable around nonlinear thinkers. We can think well 'outside the box' without any difficulty. It's our 'stock in trade' so to speak, but

they like everything in a nice line, which is why the term 'linear'.

 

When I was a child, the Sunday paper had two kinds of puzzles I enjoyed, 'connect the dots' and 'what is wrong with this picture', and I still play them.

But the dots are relationships that occur in Nature and the pictures are mathematical models of Nature.

 

What is in progress is the turning of a clear and obvious Analogy into a mathematical model. Or maybe it's a Metaphor.

 

I think that people who actually 'do' physics as opposed to just learning or teaching or using their knowledge, have a favorite poet. William Blake.

"Drive your ox and your cart o'er the bones of the dead". Don't fear replacing the old with the new.

His poems almost always revolve around real things that occur in the World. "Tyger, tyger, burning bright, in the forest of the night."

And he shows powerful use of language constructs, Metaphors, Analogies, etc., all of which can be found in Nature, and pretty easily too.

So you can see why he is so appreciated.

 

But what we really need to do is put all the different models together to describe all of Nature, because the World is a thing entire. The current way

of describing the world is like stitching ten Chiwawa's together to get a German Shepherd, it's a bloody mess and doesn't quite work. Those are my

thoughts anyway.

 

I hope you can begin to see what is going on here, because if we do it right it will lead to larger understanding of Nature.

[ACG52]

Yes, we make it up as we go along. That is how actual Physics is done.

 

Nonsense. You obviously know no scientists, nor how research is done.

[Moontanman]

This thread got me wondering. What's with all of the rotation? Is it conservation of angular momentum and the singularity was spinning?

 

I've often wondered if ultimately it's spin is what keeps a black hole from collapsing to infinity...

[Ronald Hyde]

Nonsense. You obviously know no scientists, nor how research is done.

You know, you have never ever once given a supported line of reasoning for any of you snide little remarks. I've known quite a few scientists, physicists even, they were all

working scientists, they did active research, were inventors, that sort of thing. They understood me, and I them, we could talk tech, we could joke. Two of them were with me

and I made a little joke for them. The decision to put the big accelerator in Illinois had just been made. I said 'it's good that they did that, because we all know that particles

are poles on the S-matrix, and there are more poles living near Chicago'. The got a good laugh out of that one. But you're not funny at all.

 

If you're trying to be a 'peer reviewer' you are doing a very poor job. With your little snide remarks you could be replaced by a grunting ape.

I understand it, one grunt, good. I don't understand it, two grunts, bad. That's how it appears to me, and anyone else who knows how it's done.

 

And in any case no one has appointed you to be a moderator, a role you seem to have assumed.

 

What in the world do you mean by 'how research is done'? Is there a single method known to solve all problems? If there is I sincerely doubt that you know it

or could be bothered to tell us what it is.

 

You are no peer of mine, and never will be, by any indication you have given. If you critique my posts or anyone else's without a supported line of reasoning

I will take it upon myself to rake you over the coals again, and again, as many times as needed, till you get the picture. You are a disgrace to your chosen

profession, you should be ashamed of your conduct, but you may be incapable of shame.

[imatfaal]

!

Moderator Note

Guys - both of you - cut out the editorial comments, and the characterisation of other members. Criticise the argument but not the person!