ElasticCollision Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/04/09/mystery-of-the-disappearing-bees-solved/ A reason for everyone to only buy organic food perhaps? The use of these pesticides must stop.
John Cuthber Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 The neonicotinoid pesticides that are implicated as the cause have the same basic toxicity as the nicotine they are named after. Nicotine is permitted as an "organic" pesticide. This isn't a good reason to buy organic foods.
ElasticCollision Posted September 23, 2012 Author Posted September 23, 2012 The neonicotinoid pesticides that are implicated as the cause have the same basic toxicity as the nicotine they are named after. Nicotine is permitted as an "organic" pesticide. This isn't a good reason to buy organic foods. Well I don't see why the pesticides having the same toxicity as nicotine is much of a point; Nicotine is highly toxic to humans, so the study + your claim only adds to my point that these pesticides are devastating to bees, and perhaps, going on your claim, dangerous to humans as well if these pesticides are still absorbed in the food when humans consume them. If anything is a valid argument to purchase organic foods, it is this.
John Cuthber Posted September 23, 2012 Posted September 23, 2012 The research about bees is a very strong argument not to use nicotinoid pesticides. The organic food movement uses the prototype nicotinoid. There are other insecticides that are not implicated in the problems the bees are suffering from. The Organic Farming movement doesn't permit them. It seems to me that it would be better to stick to conventional farming but change the product used rather than to support a group who choose to use a product that's very similar to the one causing the problem. 1
ElasticCollision Posted September 23, 2012 Author Posted September 23, 2012 The research about bees is a very strong argument not to use nicotinoid pesticides. The organic food movement uses the prototype nicotinoid. There are other insecticides that are not implicated in the problems the bees are suffering from. The Organic Farming movement doesn't permit them. It seems to me that it would be better to stick to conventional farming but change the product used rather than to support a group who choose to use a product that's very similar to the one causing the problem. Now I can't flaw you on that, that would certainly be very progressive. I hope something like this is implemented to stop the decline of bee populations.
pantheory Posted September 26, 2012 Posted September 26, 2012 If they have really discovered the primary insecticides that cause this big problem with bees, I expect they will soon find other chemicals that will do the job without harming bees as much, or not at all. There are also mite and mini-fly larvae that kill bee colonies in nature. They might have to breed stronger bees from similar types of honey bees, or actually genetically help them to also cope better with natural predators, or maybe even chemical cocktails sprayed on the hives or crops to help bees survive better in nature, and possibly more resistant to certain insecticides .
dreamingstereograms Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 What makes you think the BBC got it right? If only it were that simple.
John Cuthber Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 (edited) What makes you think the BBC got it right? If only it were that simple. What does the BBC have to do with it? This http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/faculty/chensheng-lu/files/in-situ-replication-of-honey-bee-colony-collapse-disorder.pdf is not the BBC's work, it's Harvard's Edited October 1, 2012 by John Cuthber
dreamingstereograms Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 What does the BBC have to do with it? This http://www.hsph.harv...se-disorder.pdf is not the BBC's work, it's Harvard's What you have there is a possible way to disrupt the bee population. Smashing bees with hammers could also disrupt the bee population. Doesnt mean that hammers were responsible.
John Cuthber Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 What you have there is a possible way to disrupt the bee population. Smashing bees with hammers could also disrupt the bee population. Doesnt mean that hammers were responsible. If people were not spraying neonicotinoids you would almost have a point. 1
ElasticCollision Posted October 2, 2012 Author Posted October 2, 2012 If they have really discovered the primary insecticides that cause this big problem with bees, I expect they will soon find other chemicals that will do the job without harming bees as much, or not at all. There are also mite and mini-fly larvae that kill bee colonies in nature. They might have to breed stronger bees from similar types of honey bees, or actually genetically help them to also cope better with natural predators, or maybe even chemical cocktails sprayed on the hives or crops to help bees survive better in nature, and possibly more resistant to certain insecticides . Agreed. Farmed bees are currently being constantly used to replace wild colonies whose numbers are rapidly declining (which is dangerously limiting the genetic diversity of all bees). These farmed bees are also dusted with a powder which kills the mites which prey upon the bees. However, as the article says, pesticides are still rapidly killing bees, so even these farmed bees aren't really solving the problem in any long term way at all. I certainly hope what you are right and they find other kinds of chemical pesticides which do not harm bees, because of course without bees, crop harvests will worryingly decline. What you have there is a possible way to disrupt the bee population. Smashing bees with hammers could also disrupt the bee population. Doesnt mean that hammers were responsible. Except not everyone in the world is going around with hammers killing bees, while these neonics are being used worldwide on crops and have been shown to cause the death of bees. The article also says that the scientists admit this is only one reason for their population decline along with "The destruction and fragmentation of bee habitats" and "(GMO) crops – some of which now contain toxic insecticides within their genetic structure". Which suggests to me that you haven't even read the entire article.
overtone Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 The neonicotinoid pesticides that are implicated as the cause have the same basic toxicity as the nicotine they are named after. The neonicotinoids were developed precisely because they are more effective pesticides in an industrial farming context - i.e. potentially more dangerous to bees - than nicotine itself. Organic farming was ordinary farming for many decades, with no recorded harm to bees. So the use of nicotine as a pesticide is no reason to avoid organic farming or its produce. And the avoidance of neonicotinoids, GM incorporated toxins, industrial habitat destruction, and so forth, are some ancillary benefits of organic techniques, for bees.
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