Deja vu solved?

[A-wal]

What would it feel like if something that's just happened were to get filed in our long term memory by mistake? If it's just happened then it's meant to be filed in our short term memory, but if it goes straight into our long term memory then it's going to feel like it's happened before.

 

 

[iNow]

Yes, deja vu seems very much related to encoding errors in memory processing.

 

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=deja+vu+memory+encoding+error&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C44&as_sdtp=

[A-wal]

Oh okay. (: Looks like I'm a bit late. Let's see if they say it's because it gets filed in our long term memories. Cheers for the link.

[Ophiolite]

I think I've heard this explanation before.

[EquisDeXD]

Yes, deja vu seems very much related to encoding errors in memory processing.

 

http://scholar.googl...1%2C44&as_sdtp=

 

It does seem like errors, but in the ways I've heard of deja vu it was more like your brain was simply making connections to past experiences, even if it didn't make connections all the way to what someone arbitrarily would have said was "suppose" to be the end conclusion.

Edited October 9, 2012 by EquisDeXD

[iNow]

It does seem like errors, but in the ways I've heard of deja vu it was more like your brain was simply making connections to past experiences, even if it didn't make connections all the way to what someone arbitrarily would have said was "suppose" to be the end conclusion.

What do you mean? This doesn't make sense to me.

[O'Nero Samuel]

How can ones memory record events and feeling that has not even happened? I think that was a pretty lame explanation.

[iNow]

A time warp might explain it... Some sort of ripple or wormhole, maybe. That's the speculative physics of it, though. This thread seemed to focus on the psychological and physiological components, in which case an encoding error seems the most reasonable explanation, especially when you consider the effects on time perception upon ingesting hallucinogens.

Edited October 9, 2012 by iNow

[O'Nero Samuel]

The time wrap explanation seems more logical and satisfying to the intuitive. Even in psychology, with concepts like this, there is are limits to physiological comprehension. If psycholoy tries to dabble in these areas, they would just be cooking non-rational word salad.

 

The time wrap explanation seems more logical and satisfying to the intuitive. Even in psychology, with concepts like this, there is are limits to physiological comprehension. If psycholoy tries to dabble in these areas, they would just be cooking non-rational word salad.

[EquisDeXD]

What do you mean? This doesn't make sense to me.

 

Like, say you had a memory if someone meeting someone 2 years ago and they told you their name, shook your hand, told them something about themselves, but you just see them on the street and your brain makes the connection of the specific geometry of their face to a past even, but it doesn't bring up the information on their name or their personality. Someone would have arbitrarily said your brain was "suppose" to make all the connections between neurons that stored the name and personality, but really your brain isn't "suppose" to do any specific thing, it just exists and makes the connections it does, there was just somewhere down the line where the information was lost or that it was stored in a memory cell too far away from the main stream of neural connections to be triggered by the information of that person's face alone.

Edited October 9, 2012 by EquisDeXD

[iNow]

The time wrap explanation seems more logical and satisfying to the intuitive. Even in psychology, with concepts like this, there is are limits to physiological comprehension. If psycholoy tries to dabble in these areas, they would just be cooking non-rational word salad.

So, you think that explaining deja vu by invoking the concept of a wormhole or timewarp is more parsimonious with what we see than the explanation of a basic encoding error in human memory? Seriously?

 

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Like, say you had a memory if someone meeting someone 2 years ago and they told you their name, shook your hand, told them something about themselves, but you just see them on the street and your brain makes the connection of the specific geometry of their face to a past even, but it doesn't bring up the information on their name or their personality. Someone would have arbitrarily said your brain was "suppose" to make all the connections between neurons that stored the name and personality, but really your brain isn't "suppose" to do any specific thing, it just exists and makes the connections it does, there was just somewhere down the line where the information was lost or that it was stored in a memory cell too far away from the main stream of neural connections to be triggered by the information of that person's face alone.

Okay, but that still requires an actual previous experience of that person or place. If there was no such preceding experience, then this explanation fails to account for the sense of deja vu.

[A-wal]

Are you three enjoying your trip to the twilight zone? (: It's so much simpler to use psychology to explain this. What could be providing the mechanism for these time warps/ripples/wormholes?

 

I think I've heard this explanation before.

Nice one. I didn't get that to start with. (:

[O'Nero Samuel]

There are somany facet of the human mind that transcend the realm of logicality in which physiology is encapsuled. Time warp is a phenominon the human mind sometimes delve into subliminally. Think of it as sensing forward time. Physics is the closest field of study that could reveal its true essence; but we are not even close.

[A-wal]

There are somany facet of the human mind that transcend the realm of logicality in which physiology is encapsuled. Time warp is a phenominon the human mind sometimes delve into subliminally. Think of it as sensing forward time. Physics is the closest field of study that could reveal its true essence; but we are not even close.

Nothing is beyond logic. It's just that we don't fully understand it so it can seem that way, like quantum mechanics does sometimes. There's nothing in the laws of physics that prevents us from remembering the future, it's physically no different to remembering the past. I don't think you should call it time warp though. It sounds too silly. (:

[O'Nero Samuel]

Okay, call it what you want. But I think you are wrong though: some things (far more many thing) are beyound logic. Think of what chaos theory reveals, and mind you, absolute time predetermination is the, so to speak, chaos of all things chaotic. Now beat that.

[JohnStu]

What would it feel like if something that's just happened were to get filed in our long term memory by mistake? If it's just happened then it's meant to be filed in our short term memory, but if it goes straight into our long term memory then it's going to feel like it's happened before.

 

 

 

 

deja vu occurs 4-9 times more frequently when the person is not concentrated due to whatever the cause.

[A-wal]

Okay, call it what you want. But I think you are wrong though: some things (far more many thing) are beyound logic. Think of what chaos theory reveals, and mind you, absolute time predetermination is the, so to speak, chaos of all things chaotic. Now beat that.

How is determinism chaotic? It's the exact opposite of chaos. Quantum mechanics suggests that everything that can happen does happen, so there wouldn't be any chaos. I don't like chaos. Everything happens for a reason.

 

deja vu occurs 4-9 times more frequently when the person is not concentrated due to whatever the cause.

Good. That backs up the idea.

 

Nothing is beyond logic. It's just that we don't fully understand it so it can seem that way, like quantum mechanics does sometimes. There's nothing in the laws of physics that prevents us from remembering the future, it's physically no different to remembering the past. I don't think you should call it time warp though. It sounds too silly. (:

I should probably clarify that. I didn't mean that you could remember something before it's happen because if you remember it then by definition, it's already happened from your perspective. The arrow of times comes from the fact that we remember in only one direction of it. We're not really moving through time. We have the feeling of being in the moment at every point of our lives. Now has no real meaning because it's always now, it always has been and it always will be. If you were to remember something that happens ten years from now then it will have already happened from your perspective, because you remember it. So you'd jump ten years into the future with no memory of the last decade, and if you were to get those memories back it would still be ten years from now. You can't get information from the future and act on it in the past because if you remember it hen it's in your past. If we could remember in both directions then we'd perceive it as another spacial dimension, or we would if it was possible to perceive something without the illusion of a moving timeline. What would be really interesting is if we were to meet aliens who perceive time in the opposite direction. That would be an extremely interesting and very confusing conversation. They'd already remember us of course, then we'd meet them, get extremely confused, and from that point on we'd remember them but they wouldn't remember us.

 

My brain hurts. I'm going to bed. I'm averaging ten posts a day. (: I'm not going to be able to keep that up in a few days. I can't believe it's only been four days, seems much longer. I'm averaging more than one warning a day as well. Bloody hell. That's definately going down!

Edited October 9, 2012 by A-wal

[iNow]

deja vu occurs 4-9 times more frequently when the person is not concentrated

[EquisDeXD]

So, you think that explaining deja vu by invoking the concept of a wormhole or timewarp is more parsimonious with what we see than the explanation of a basic encoding error in human memory? Seriously?

 

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Okay, but that still requires an actual previous experience of that person or place. If there was no such preceding experience, then this explanation fails to account for the sense of deja vu.

 

I don't really remember saying that it can happen without a previous experience, so can you clarify?

[iNow]

The suggestion you made is that deja vu is from recalling a past experience, minus some important details about that experience. In essence, you recall part of encountering that person, but not other useful information.

 

say you had a memory if someone meeting someone 2 years ago and they told you their name, shook your hand, told them something about themselves, but you just see them on the street and your brain makes the connection of the specific geometry of their face to a past even, but it doesn't bring up the information on their name or their personality.

 

My rebuttal is that the feeling of deja vu happens even when we have not met the person ever before. It happens in rooms where we've never been before. It happens in places we've never been before. This seems to suggest that deja vu cannot be the result of "partially remembering" a past experience since in many cases deja vu happens even absent previous experience. Maybe I misinterpreted your meaning somehow?

[O'Nero Samuel]

This is the speculation section, so lets speculate;

What if we(science) work with time inverted, and we percive time inverted? Then what we think is to come has already been.

But what if we we're not hardwired to percieve time this way; or maybe a part of our mind could sense time the other way round?

Lets assume we stick to our old guns and I decide to, for intuitive convinience, call this backtiming?

Then, in this frame of mind, deja vu are minute elements of the future picked up by the part of our minds, which was designed to sense backtiming.

This may sound confusing, and it is; and I dont even understand it myself, but I know it.

Edited October 10, 2012 by O'Nero Samuel

[iNow]

Maybe all moments in time... past and future... exist infinitely overlapping in the present... we're merely swimming in an ocean of eternity bouncing between waves and ripples... and sometimes future events somehow alter our perceptual machinery and get potentiated into long-term memories just like current events do... only to be later recalled when that future event actually occurs.

 

Or... you know... maybe it's just an encoding error as the event takes place and the conscious mind interprets it as deja vu.

[A-wal]

Time is a dimension, no different from space accept in our minds. They're even interchangeable in a sense. Everything is always moving through space-time at the speed of light. If an object is in motion relative to you then its speed through time decreases to keep its overall speed through space-time constant, but it would say the same about you. If you accelerate into their frame then it's that frames rulers for space and time that you have to use instead, so acceleration makes the illusion of Doppler shift become a reality. That's what causes the difference in age in the twin paradox (not actually a paradox at all) in special relativity when they meet back up.

 

Our brains have two separate systems for storing information, a bit like RAM and ROM. It's seems so much more likely that deja vu is caused by a memory bypassing the short term memory and getting filed straight in the long term memory instead because of a processing error.

 

Edited October 13, 2012 by A-wal