Geology - the science of the future

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The sciences of Physics and Chemistry seem to have lead industry to a situation that is putting the worlds systems into a strained condition.

 

Should we possibly be using Geology as a way out of this current state. Perhaps diverting attention more in the direction of how the world was made over the last eons ( 4.5 billion years). And thus learning how humans can best be accommodated within the geological working structure.

 

Could we use a knowledge of Geology in a new active discipline, endeavor and enterprise .

 

This as opposed to using yet more and more effort in the direction of " conventional industry based on physics and chemistry mainly " , as a way to battle our way into the future. Is the current increase in conventional industry world wide not going to put increased strain on the environment and thus make our current position and endevours untenable ?

 

To demonstrate the lack of investment in Geology: I went into a University town yesterday and inquired from a well known Bookshop if they had ANY books on Geology? The answer was not one, but they could order them , but today none. I went into the same city , central library and asked for a book on Geology to do with the Silurian era and they had two books in their basement vaults, one of which I was able to view under reference conditions . It was dated as being printed in 1868. I open the book and a strange stale antique smell came from the pages. Good work, good rock layer drawings.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[iDevonian]

The sciences of Physics and Chemistry seem to have lead industry to a situation that is putting the worlds systems into a strained condition.

 

Should we possibly be using Geology as a way out of this current state. Perhaps diverting attention more in the direction of how the world was made over the last eons ( 4.5 billion years). And thus learning how humans can best be accommodated within the geological working structure.

 

Could we use a knowledge of Geology in a new active discipline, endeavor and enterprise .

 

This as opposed to using yet more and more effort in the direction of " conventional industry based on physics and chemistry mainly " , as a way to battle our way into the future. Is the current increase in conventional industry world wide not going to put increased strain on the environment and thus make our current position and endevours untenable ?

 

To demonstrate the lack of investment in Geology: I went into a University town yesterday and inquired from a well known Bookshop if they had ANY books on Geology? The answer was not one, but they could order them , but today none. I went into the same city , central library and asked for a book on Geology to do with the Silurian era and they had two books in their basement vaults, one of which I was able to view under reference conditions . It was dated as being printed in 1868. I open the book and a strange stale antique smell came from the pages. Good work, good rock layer drawings.

 

If you could give examples of what you mean, to better describe your post, it would be much apprecaited.

 

For example, you said "erhaps diverting attention more in the direction of how the world was made over the last eons ( 4.5 billion years). And thus learning how humans can best be accommodated within the geological working structure. ". I dont know what you mean by this.

 

Currently, even though people rarely take notice of geologists and what we do, the world still depends upon our knowledge. Everywhere you find oil and natural gas, paleo aquifers used as drinking water for millions, any form of mining, such as coal and uranium. It is the geologists who are leading (at least in some aspects).

 

Like an underrated step child of science that still holds its own.

[Essay]

Perhaps diverting attention more in the direction of how the world was made over the last eons ( 4.5 billion years). And thus learning how humans can best be accommodated within the geological working structure.

 

Could we use a knowledge of Geology in a new active discipline, endeavor and enterprise .

 

This as opposed to using yet more and more effort in the direction of " conventional industry based on physics and chemistry mainly " , as a way to battle our way into the future. Is the current increase in conventional industry world wide not going to put increased strain on the environment and thus make our current position and endevours untenable ?

...or words to that effect, eh?

I recently bought a copy of "Introduction to Organic Geochemistry" by Killops & Killops (after keeping the library copy for several years) so I could continue to better understand the significant influence of interactions within the biogeochemosphere--interactions which have developed and also operate over different temporal and spatial scales.

 

So I agree that if we could better understand these interactions, including their evolution or development as well as their operation and significance within the whole planetary system, then we would more easily see paths forward to sustainable management of the planetary system and its resources.

 

Another way of saying that is to point out how a more complete understanding of ecology would lead to better economic theory and thus an improved economy; since better knowledge about resources should lead to better management of those resources.

 

===fyi===

[eco ...or oikos = house/resources] + [logy ...or logic = study of...or knowledge about]

[eco ...or oikos = house/resources] + [nomy ...or nomic = management of]

 

...www.thefreedictionary.com/economy [via Latin from Greek oikonomia domestic management, from oikos house + -nomia, from nemein to manage].

===

 

Science, over the past decade, has come to realize soil and soil processes such as humification have a significant impact upon biogeochemical systems. This new aspect of a more complete ecology needs to be more fully appreciated, before we can better understand our economic problems and better see workable and sustainable solutions.

 

So yes, without the more complete understanding of our planetary systems that geology will provide, it seems that physics and chemistry will continue leading us too quickly and easily into unsustainable technologies and products.

===

 

A series of points --from a recent book about a significant geologic determinant, the root zone and its chemistry, called the rhizosphere-- will illustrate this new paradigm; and you can imagine how it has influenced geologic processes in the past. Many rock formations, including petroleum deposits, are simply petrified soils--if you think about it from the right perspective.

 

The Rhizosphere: An Ecological Perspective (Cardon and Whitbeck 2007)

Edited by Zoe G. Cardon and Julie L. Whitbeck

Elsevier Science, $75.00-95.00 USD Hardbound, 232 Pages

Published: MAR-2007 ISBN 10: 0-12-088775-4 ISBN 13: 978-0-12-088775-0

Imprint: ACADEMIC PRESS

LC Call #: QK644 .R445 2007

 

"The release of carbon in the form of root exudates may account for up to 40 percent of the [photosynthetically fixed]... matter produced by plants." --p.58 ...40%!!!

 

"The interplay between microorganisms and microfauna determines the rate of nutrient cycling and strongly enhances the availability of mineral nutrients to plants." --p.58

...as well as minerals leached away or to lower layers....

 

"The unintended consequences of agriculture extend well beyond agricultural landscapes and include environmental degradation and social displacement."

--p.127

....

 

"We recognize that ultimately the transition to ecologically sound, sustainable food production systems that meet human needs will be complex and will require fundamental changes in cultural values and human societies as well as the application of ecolgical knowledge to agricultural management." --p.148

 

Also, from: (2007, Whitbeck & Cardon; The Rhizosphere: An Ecological Perspective) ~p.31

 

"Considering all the pools and fluxes of Carbon within the ecosystems, Carbon-cycling below ground is increasingly being recognized as one of the most significant components of the carbon cycle."

&

 

"...approximately one order of magnitude larger than the global annual rate of fossil fuel burning and other anthropogenic emissions."

&

 

"Thus small changes in the equilibrium between inputs and decomposition could have significant impact on atmospheric CO2 concentrations."

 

Technically the "Rhizosphere" is the "root zone" of soils, though science is increasingly revealing that all soils are strongly affected by this newly recognized and significant "independent ecosystem component."

 

"The soil, fauna, flora, root, shoot, herbivores, and predators in many ways act like a single, connected organism."

 

"Future significant advances in understanding and management will come from a holistic approach to the "'rhizo-organism.'" --p.67

===

 

...and for further social and economic context/relevance:

 

"Here we briefly survey key modifications of the soil environment that result from a broad suite of management practices and their unintentional consequences for the rhizosphere habitat." --p.128

 

"We begin with an inventory of how conventional, high-input management has altered the soil environment and biota in agroecosystems with particular emphasis on the consequences for the rhizosphere habitat." --p.128

 

"As agriculture has evolved, the degree of intervention has grown steadily, culminating with the current, resource-intensive "Green Revolution" production systems where management interventions are often the dominant force shaping agroecosystem structure and function." --p.128

 

"Our discussion will emphasize the situation in conventional, high-input annual systems since these production systems supply a substantial portion of food on a global basis, are continuing to expand in developing countries, and also have the greatest impact on the environment." p.129

 

"The effect of cultivation on microbial community structure in bulk soil appear to be long-lasting and can still be detected years after agricultural mangement has ended." --p.132

 

"Rhizosphere microorganisms and their associated primary producers contribute both directly and indirectly to a wide range of ecosystem functions." --p.133

 

"It is against this backdrop of a highly modified soil environment and the cascading effects on soil biota that we examine the rhizosphere in agriculture and consider how to redirect management to restore rhizosphere processes and agroecosystem function." --p.133

 

"We believe there is a tremendous untapped potential for subterranean ecological processes to contribute to these sustainable food systems." --p.148

 

"Whether the perspective is one of mechanics or of chemistry, the rhizosphere represents a highly significant interface between biology and geology, an interfacial environment with broad consequences for earth's biogeochemistry and soil formation." --p.196

===

...& I'd note: both going forward, AND historically!

===

 

The process of humification is one perspective on how the rhizosphere influences are better understood. This book explains this side of the weathering or petrification of soils.

 

Most significantly, it is only within the past decade that science has come to realize how the organic part of soil, or humus [Humic Substances (HS)], is as important as sunlight, air, and water, in fully understanding how the environment works.

 

"The discovery of HS formation in the primitive atmosphere has further far reaching consequences for the understanding of ecosystem functioning. The HS are to be granted the role of an independent ecosystem component, such as atmosphere, water, or light, since they come into being simultaneously with early life. This means that living organisms have to adapt to humus or HS-like materials with which they come in contact from the very time they evolve." ~p.36/37 (2002, Steinberg; Ecology of Humic Substances....)

 

"In this superabundance of new knowledge and the subsequent change in paradigms, it is clear that the role of HS for freshwater organisms principally is seen as one-directional: as fuel and energy, which is transferred in the aquatic food web by heterotrophs and mixotrophic flagellates and ciliates. It is often overlooked, that HS can have direct adverse or even biocidal effects (Chap. 8.3)." --p.343

 

http://www.worldcat....s/oclc/50748368

http://www.springer....8-3-540-43922-6

 

"In this superabundance of new knowledge and the subsequent change in paradigms...."

 

Ecology of Humic Substances in Freshwaters:

Determinants from Geochemistry to Ecological Niches

Steinberg, Christian; 2003, V, 440 p. 213 illus.

ISBN 978-3-540-43922-6

LC Call #: QH541.5 .F7S725 2003

 

===> ...and in case you're interested in the biochemistry, consider the following--in relation to the quotes from the previous book above....

 

"Plant-mediated decomposition and corresponding mineralization of nutrients via the rhizosphere ("microbial loop" or "priming effect" -see chapter 2 and 3) is not considered to be important in conventional agriculture and hence, deliberate management of this process has not been attempted. While some plants are able to produce and secrete enzymes required for P mineralization (Vance et al. 2003), release of nutrients from organic compounds is largely carried out by heterotrophic microorganisms through the production of extracellularr enzymes than can attack polymers and release small, soluble molecules." --p.136

 

"The role of plant-microbial interactions in accessing organic nutrient pools is considered to be of central importance in organically managed systems (Drinkwater 2004). --p.137

 

"Although SOM pools are not generally the target of soil fertility management, it is clear that the microbial loop may serve as a significant source of nutrients, particularly N, even in cropping systems receiving large fertilizer additions. Despite application of luxurious amounts of N and use of refined best management practices, crops still acquire 40-80 percent of their N from endogenous soil reserves, and an average of 50 percent of the N applied is lost from agricultural landscapes (Tilman 1999)." --p.137

 

"Clearly, greater reliance on plant-mediated mineralization for nutrient acquisition in agroecosystems would reduce the potential for nutrient losses due to the tight coupling between the release of soluble, potentially mobile nutrient forms and plant uptake in the rhizosphere. This could be particularly advantageous in the case of N, which is highly susceptible to loss once it is converted to inorganic forms. Inorganic N pools can be extremely small while high rates of net primary productivity (NPP) are maintained if N-mineralization and plant assimilation are spatially and temporally connected in this manner." --p.137

===

 

 

==> The National Academies would also agree with your idea on the importance of understanding our past and how we evolved to find ourselves in this unique situation, I'd think. See:

 

In Understanding Earth's Deep Past, the National Research Council reports that rocks and sediments that are millions of years old hold clues to how the Earth's future climate would respond in an environment with high levels of atmospheric greenhouse gases."

 

From the National Acadamies Press (Nat.Acad.Sciences, Nat.Acad.Engineering, Inst.of Medicine, & Nat. Research Council)

 

http://www.nap.edu/c...record_id=13111

http://www.nap.edu/o...id=13111&page=9

Understanding Earth's Deep Past: Lessons for Our Climate Future (2011)

 

"By the end of this century, without a reduction in emissions, atmospheric CO2 is projected to increase to levels that Earth has not experienced for more than 30 million years."

--p.5 [Yikes!]

 

"Notably, the deep-time record indicates that the mechanisms and feedbacks in the modern ice-house climate system, which have controlled tropical temperatures and a high pole-to-equator thermal gradient, may not straightforwardly apply in warmer worlds, suggesting that additional feedbacks probaby operated under warmer mean temperatures."

--p.9

 

"The deep-time record uniquely archives the processes and feedbacks that influence the hydrological cycle in a warmer world, including the effect of high-latitude unipolar glaciation or ice-free conditions on regional precipitation patterns in lower latitudes."

--p.10

 

Colleges and universities, where distinguished lecture tours and summer schools can add to the more traditional learning elements in geoscience courses. The integration of deep-time paleoclimatology into environmental science curricula offers an additional opportunity to convey the relevance of the deep-time record."

--p.13

 

 

===

See also; if you want to apply this new geo-perspective to social issues:

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/6126

 

"Mitigating Climate Change Through Food and Land Use"

Authors: Sara J. Scherr and Sajal Sthapit

ISBN 13: 978-1-878071-91-0

Publication Date: June 2009

Paperback, 50 pages

LC Call #: S589.7 .S337 2009

 

Summary

Land makes up a quarter of Earth's surface, and its soil and plants hold three times as much carbon as the atmosphere. More than 30 percent of all greenhouse gas emissions arise from the land use sector. Thus, no strategy for mitigating global climate change can be complete or successful without reducing emissions from agriculture, forestry, and other land uses. Moreover, only land-based or "terrestrial" carbon sequestration offers the possibility today of large-scale removal of greenhouse gases from the atmosphere, through plant photosynthesis.

 

Five major strategies for reducing and sequestering terrestrial greenhouse gas emissions are:

• Enriching soil carbon. Soil is the third largest carbon pool on Earth's surface. Agricultural soils can be managed to reduce emissions by minimizing tillage, reducing use of nitrogen fertilizers, and preventing erosion. Soils can store the carbon captured by plants from the atmosphere by building up soil organic matter, which also has benefits for crop production. Adding biochar (biomass burned in a low-oxygen environment) can further enhance carbon storage in soil.

 

• Farming with perennials. Perennial crops, grasses, palms, and trees constantly maintain and develop their root and woody biomass and associated carbon, while providing vegetative cover for soils. There is large potential to substitute annual tilled crops with perennials, particularly for animal feed and vegetable oils, as well as to incorporate woody perennials into annual cropping systems in agroforestry systems.

 

• Climate-friendly livestock production. Rapid growth in demand for livestock products has triggered a huge rise in the number of animals, the concentration of wastes in feedlots and dairies, and the clearing of natural grasslands and forests for grazing. Livestock- related emissions of carbon and methane now account for 14.5 percent of total greenhouse gas emissions—more than the transport sector. A reduction in livestock numbers may be needed but production innovations can help, including rotational grazing systems,manure management, methane capture for biogas production, and improved feeds and feed additives (i.e. biochar).

 

• Protecting natural habitat. The planet's 4 billion hectares of forests and 5 billion hectares of natural grasslands are a massive reservoir of carbon—both in vegetation above ground and in root systems below ground. As forests and grasslands grow, they remove carbon from the atmosphere. Deforestation, land clearing, and forest and grassland fires are major sources of greenhouse gas emissions. Incentives are needed to encourage farmers and land users to maintain natural vegetation through product certification, payments for climate services, securing tenure rights, and community fire control. The conservation of natural habitat will benefit biodiversity in the face of climate change.

 

• Restoring degraded watersheds and rangelands. Extensive areas of the world have been denuded of vegetation through land clearing for crops or grazing and from overuse and poor management. Degradation has not only generated a huge amount of greenhouse gas emissions, but local people have lost a valuable livelihood asset as well as essential watershed functions. Restoring vegetative cover on degraded lands can be a win-win-win strategy for addressing climate change, rural poverty, and water scarcity.

 

But that Killops & Killops book is worth the 30 bucks! It is like having a time machine and also being teleported to an alien world--just beneath our feet--where the planet's more primeval atmosphere still persists.

 

~

Edited October 11, 2012 by Essay

[Ophiolite]

It strikes me that the artificial classifcation of science into various sub-categories is an important component of the problem. Therefore I would vigorously oppose any proposal to seek solutions primarily within anyone artificially defined sphere of science.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Ophiolite and Essay and iDevonian.(sorry ! )

I am reading and trying to digest your fine comments. Yes I am inclined to agree , that rather than leaving things to one scientific discipline , that a multi-discipline approach to dealing with our future development of the world is really a good idea. On your well thought out points ESSAY I have returned from a day in the new Victoria and Albert museum in Exeter Sw England UK. This year a new refurbishment with a run through visual presentation from 400 mya (million years ago) to today. We are privileged in the south west with having Devonian era strata and Silurian era as well as Jurassic era outcrops under our feet. I have recently read about the great build up of turbid mud flows on the ocean crust, organic deposition , and the microbial action in the ocean bottom. The machinery of geological change seems incredible. I need to reflect on your ideas and my experience today in the museum. I will try and add something , when I have reflected on your points. Thanks.

 

P.S.

 

I have read James Lovelocks book " The revenge of Gaia " in 2006 when he wrote it, He predicted that we are on the slippery slope to serious interference with the geological systems and as such we are likely to have Mediterranean over heating and North European cloudy and wet summers. This summer I spent 5-6 months in central Italy. It rained only on two days . The water table ceased to exist under the Gubbio valley. Water lorries were called in 6 times a day all summer to bolster the public water supply. I could only just stand the heat by getting in my swimming pool 4 times a day. I phoned home to the Uk and we were told it has been wet all summer long and regularly they were being told they would have one months rain in one day. And still it rains. I think we need to hurry up with any changes.

 

However I do believe we need to take a longer term look and train our young people to understand the geological mechanisms, that make the machinery of our Earth function , as a matter of top priority. Perhaps we could have "geo-players " as opposed to i players. "Geo transports" as opposed to cars etc etc. Forests take time to grow, Bio systems take time to mature. We need to start our young people to be geo scientists or multi-discipline geo scientists NOW surely.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Essay]

....However I do believe we need to take a longer term look and train our young people to understand the geological mechanisms, that make the machinery of our Earth function , as a matter of top priority. Perhaps we could have "geo-players " as opposed to i players. "Geo transports" as opposed to cars etc etc. Forests take time to grow, Bio systems take time to mature. We need to start our young people to be geo scientists or multi-discipline geo scientists NOW surely.

...maybe Facebook's FarmVille will evolve into a GeoFarmVille, to more accurately reflect reality.

 

 

If you get a chance to catch this on PBS or elsewhere, it is worth it.

 

A Thousand Invisible Cords: Connecting Genes to Ecosystems

 

http://www.environme...edu/events/2018

 

"Can a single plant or animal gene alter an entire landscape? Science now says yes... This one-hour documentary demonstrates that living things are connected in more ways that anyone thought possible. No longer can species be seen as isolated members of an ecosystem, but rather as genetically connected members of a rich interacting community."

===

 

They quote Darwin:

"It is interesting to contemplate a tangled bank, clothed with many plants of many kinds, with birds singing on the bushes, with various insects flitting about, and with worms crawling through the damp earth, and to reflect that these elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent upon each other in so complex a manner, have all been produced by laws acting around us. . ."

...my emphasis

 

At one point, they describe a working group, the "Cottonwood Ecology Group," which focuses on

Community and Ecosystem Genetics (genotypes & phenotypes) that included specialties such as:

 

Plant Genomics

Community Ecology & Genetics

Quantitative Genetics/Genomics

Population Genetics

Conservation Genetics

Ecosystem Genetics

Ecological Genetics

Plant Community Ecology

Quantitative Ecology

Ecosystem Ecology

Chemical Ecology

Soil Ecology

Aquatic Ecology

Limnology

Mycology

Entomology

Organic Chemistry

Wildlife Biology

Theoretical & Computational Biology

Conservation Biology

Evolutionary Biology

===...but where are the microbiologists?

 

Integrative science and cross-disciplinary programs are good ways to discover new levels of understanding, new paradigms, and socioeconomically helpful and restorative ways to multiply our advantages as we utilize planetary resources --making sustainabe management of those resources easier to achieve.

 

They don't mention "humus" which is the flux that mediates and moderates a lot of these connections, especially nutrient cycling and immune responses. They need members from the IHSS also!

 

http://www.humicsubs....org/index.html

International Humic Substance Society

 

 

The show also mentioned how Biodiversity is a foundational key to maintaining ecosystem services; promoting endurance, resilience, and productivity. Biodiversity should become more highly valued as interdisciplinary science further validates the Gaian perspective; life has a much broader effect (from geology to climate) than we easily appreciate, and it should be more highly valued--if only for our own long-term self interest.

They call biodiversity "a priceless resource."

 

In addition to biodiversity, the show also mentioned the importance of "mycorrhizal fungi" and "Silver Buckshot Solutions," all of which are main points in my sustainability talks; so I liked the show! It has a good message, a message which is somewhat ineffable; but they paint a good picture.

 

...silver buckshot!

===

 

 

...mycorrhizal fungi!

===

 

 

...integrative science & the value of biodiversity!

===

 

 

...life's influence on geology!

===

 

 

"When we try to pick out anything by itself we find that it is bound fast by a thousand invisible cords that cannot be broken, to everything in the universe."

-(John Muir, 1869 quote)

 

~

Edited October 12, 2012 by Essay

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Good info you have at your finger tips.  Hope to have something to say soon.   Like now!<br><br><b><font size="4">Essay</font></b>

 

<div><b><font size="4"><br></font></b></div><div><b> </b>As scientists we are,   from time to time,   to make observations   and look for patterns that we can use.   We can  make theories and predictions    </div><div> on which to make further tests    so as to prove or disprove the theory.  </div><div><br></div><div>A geological series of patterns that geologists have and are observing are :-</div><div><b><i><u><font size="4"><br></font></u></i></b></div><div><b><i><u><font size="4"> That many changing aspects of the whole geological system are cyclical</font></u></i></b>.</div><div><br></div><div> Namely that no matter how long the cycle might be,  say ten seconds for the crest of a wave on the  sea to rise and fall and rise again  or the 10,000,000,000 year (10 billion year ) for the accumulation of atoms into dust particles from and exploding supernova, to build up into a solar system including the earth, and go through the whole geological time of the earth, until the sun dies as a red giant vaporizing the earth in the process and thus distributing the self same atoms to form dust in the universe AGAIN   . </div><div><br></div><div>This observation was muted by Jan Zalasiewicz in his recent book  " The Planet in a pebble  2010ISBN 978 0 19 964569-5</div><div><br></div><div>I always find it hard to get my head around Geological times like a million years or 10 billion years.</div><div>I tried to get some handle this morning on 10 billion years and thought in terms of a single rotation of the milky way galaxy being of the order of 1 or 2 million years  say , the million years  being 1000 times the time back to 1066 when William the C   invaded England and 10,000 Revs ( being the spin of a fast motor per second ) , thinking in terms of 10,000 revolutions of the milky Way Galaxy  =  approximately  10,000,000,000 years .</div><div><br></div><div>Ok. So as Zalasiewicz says in his book ( quoted above ) A single plankton dies, having digested a few atoms of whatever and sinks to the bottom of the ocean , gets covered in turbid mud, gets absorbed by microbes, rots, becomes part of the Silurian seabed 460 million odd years ago , becomes part of a stratified, folded rock layer , appears as some welsh slate in Wales U.K , Chipped out by a welsh miner 100 years ago , been on someones house for 50 years , the slate discarded a few years ago, recently eroded and back down the local river to the ocean some horrific  number of years later from where it came from roughly. Probably these atoms having been moved from the plankton's single cell inside, on the surface of the Silurian Sea , down to the ocean bed, the whole tectonic plate at that time being south of the equator, back up to where the UK is now. The whole Eurasian plate having been shoved up here in the northern hemisphere by convection currents in the earths interior mantle.  Some journey over  460,000,000 years ( a mere half a billion years Uk billion ). One hell of a cycle. </div><div><br></div><div>There are the Geological cycles ( Just two of them ) .</div><div><br></div><div>What can we conclude from these geological patterns . </div><div><br></div><div>I love swimming in the sea and am not intimidated by high waves. If you try to face them head on one gets smashed. Turn and let the wave take you up to its crest ( assuming it has not yet broken  ), and its a lovely ride.  May be there is a Geological lesson to be learned here. </div><div><br></div><div><b><i><u>Go with the Flow</u></i></b>    </div><div><br></div><div>Sounds a bit Hippy ' ish.  Was not intended.  However appears to work,( in Geological systems that is) .  So why not in our approach to living in the current geological state of the planet.   </div><div><br></div>

Edited October 13, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Athena]

...maybe Facebook's FarmVille will evolve into a GeoFarmVille, to more accurately reflect reality.

 

 

If you get a chance to catch this on PBS or elsewhere, it is worth it.

 

A Thousand Invisible Cords: Connecting Genes to Ecosystems

 

http://www.environme...edu/events/2018

 

"Can a single plant or animal gene alter an entire landscape? Science now says yes... This one-hour documentary demonstrates that living things are connected in more ways that anyone thought possible. No longer can species be seen as isolated members of an ecosystem, but rather as genetically connected members of a rich interacting community."

===

 

They quote Darwin:

...my emphasis

 

At one point, they describe a working group, the "Cottonwood Ecology Group," which focuses on

Community and Ecosystem Genetics (genotypes & phenotypes) that included specialties such as:

 

Plant Genomics

Community Ecology & Genetics

Quantitative Genetics/Genomics

Population Genetics

Conservation Genetics

Ecosystem Genetics

Ecological Genetics

Plant Community Ecology

Quantitative Ecology

Ecosystem Ecology

Chemical Ecology

Soil Ecology

Aquatic Ecology

Limnology

Mycology

Entomology

Organic Chemistry

Wildlife Biology

Theoretical & Computational Biology

Conservation Biology

Evolutionary Biology

===...but where are the microbiologists?

 

Integrative science and cross-disciplinary programs are good ways to discover new levels of understanding, new paradigms, and socioeconomically helpful and restorative ways to multiply our advantages as we utilize planetary resources --making sustainabe management of those resources easier to achieve.

 

They don't mention "humus" which is the flux that mediates and moderates a lot of these connections, especially nutrient cycling and immune responses. They need members from the IHSS also!

 

http://www.humicsubs....org/index.html

International Humic Substance Society

 

 

The show also mentioned how Biodiversity is a foundational key to maintaining ecosystem services; promoting endurance, resilience, and productivity. Biodiversity should become more highly valued as interdisciplinary science further validates the Gaian perspective; life has a much broader effect (from geology to climate) than we easily appreciate, and it should be more highly valued--if only for our own long-term self interest.

They call biodiversity "a priceless resource."

 

In addition to biodiversity, the show also mentioned the importance of "mycorrhizal fungi" and "Silver Buckshot Solutions," all of which are main points in my sustainability talks; so I liked the show! It has a good message, a message which is somewhat ineffable; but they paint a good picture.

 

...silver buckshot!

===

 

 

...mycorrhizal fungi!

===

 

 

...integrative science & the value of biodiversity!

===

 

 

...life's influence on geology!

===

 

 

"When we try to pick out anything by itself we find that it is bound fast by a thousand invisible cords that cannot be broken, to everything in the universe."

-(John Muir, 1869 quote)

 

~

 

By following your link, a person can buy the DVD for less than $13 plus postage. I will buy one and then may be a second one for our local library. I have noticed our local library is short on math and science information and could use some help. That is one place we can start in building a better world, with our local libraries, assuring they have the information we want our neighbors to have before they buy something or vote. That is an extremely good investment for a better world, if our libraries have the space and will work with us on increasing the shelve space for science and math.

 

The sciences of Physics and Chemistry seem to have lead industry to a situation that is putting the worlds systems into a strained condition.

 

Should we possibly be using Geology as a way out of this current state. Perhaps diverting attention more in the direction of how the world was made over the last eons ( 4.5 billion years). And thus learning how humans can best be accommodated within the geological working structure.

 

Could we use a knowledge of Geology in a new active discipline, endeavor and enterprise .

 

This as opposed to using yet more and more effort in the direction of " conventional industry based on physics and chemistry mainly " , as a way to battle our way into the future. Is the current increase in conventional industry world wide not going to put increased strain on the environment and thus make our current position and endevours untenable ?

 

To demonstrate the lack of investment in Geology: I went into a University town yesterday and inquired from a well known Bookshop if they had ANY books on Geology? The answer was not one, but they could order them , but today none. I went into the same city , central library and asked for a book on Geology to do with the Silurian era and they had two books in their basement vaults, one of which I was able to view under reference conditions . It was dated as being printed in 1868. I open the book and a strange stale antique smell came from the pages. Good work, good rock layer drawings.

 

Not good, if you literally smelled something when you opened the book, it has bacteria causing the odor and that bacteria will destroy the book in time. Sorry, but I love old books and it really hurts to think of a book being stored in dungeon where it is of no use to anyone and could be destroyed. But back on subject, it is insane to not applying science to our daily lives and the care our planet. I am afraid I can not say more without getting off subject again, because to say more is include my understanding of God and being human and morals, and all this is not what these forums about. But really all the money we spend on education is a waste considering how poorly we are educated. Why would a library have shelves of books no one appreciates, because no one is educated to appreciate them? This goes with my objection to education for technology. Education for technology is not education for science, which includes much more than memorizing facts and being prepared to serve industry.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Athena

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

 

 

Not good, if you literally smelled something when you opened the book, it has bacteria causing the odor and that bacteria will destroy the book in time. Sorry, but I love old books and it really hurts to think of a book being stored in dungeon where it is of no use to anyone and could be destroyed. But back on subject, it is insane to not applying science to our daily lives and the care our planet. I am afraid I can not say more without getting off subject again, because to say more is include my understanding of God and being human and morals, and all this is not what these forums about. But really all the money we spend on education is a waste considering how poorly we are educated. Why would a library have shelves of books no one appreciates, because no one is educated to appreciate them? This goes with my objection to education for technology. Education for technology is not education for science, which includes much more than memorizing facts and being prepared to serve industry.

 

Yes, well I was rather ill for 24 hours after opening the Geology book about the Silurian sea, and smelling this strange old smell which you tell me is bacteria. It was printed in 1868, so I have probably released some dreadful 'Bug' from 1868.

 

If you have some relevant point to offer on geology which requires God and humans and morals and it relates to the subject in hand, then go ahead !

[Essay]

....A single plankton dies, having digested a few atoms of whatever and sinks to the bottom of the ocean....

 

...May be there is a Geological lesson to be learned here.

Go with the Flow....

 

 

...if going with the flow means "...applying science to our daily lives and the care our planet," as Athena mentions, then I'm all for it.

 

Geology is a science for the future because it will show us how life and soil processes strongly influence the development of the planet. Learning how the planet develops and responds to life and soil processes will allow us to intentionally manage our little lifeboat as it sails forth into the future.

 

Soils operate as a hydrologic buffer, a chemical buffer, an acidity buffer, an oxidation buffer, and as a thermal buffer--at least. Soil is the third largest pool of carbon on the planet's surface, and it acts to buffer CO2 levels in the atmosphere. There are geologic buffers that are larger and act on much longer time scales, but soils --mediated through plants-- cycle (exchanging and buffering) atmospheric carbon levels on a yearly basis.

 

Soils hold twice as much carbon as the entire atmosphere.

 

Soils can operate as a thermostat for the planet, if we will learn through geology how soils and other life processes generate our resource systems and modify the planet.

 

Land management should become one of the most valued vocations, as we realize its significance to maintaining and improving civilization globally. Geology will provide the insight to manage our resources sustainably, and to restore or modify our situation as needed--to promote and maintain biodiversity and healthy ecosystems.

 

Soils are the source of our sustenance; there is value in ensuring sustenance.

 

~

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

[quote name=Mike Smith Cosmos'

 

 

Essay. Athena. Ophiolite. iDevonian Sorry my last post got all scrambled for some reason or other. I have tried to unpick it and repeat it without the scramble.

 

As scientists we are, from time to time, to make observations and look for patterns that we can use. We can make theories and predictions on which to make further tests ;so as to prove or disprove the theory. A geological series of patterns that geologists have and are observing are :- That many changing aspects of the whole geological system are cyclical ;Namely that no matter how long the cycle might be, ;say ten seconds for the crest of a wave on the ;sea to rise and fall and rise again ;or the 10,000,000,000 year (10 billion year ) for the accumulation of atoms into dust particles from and exploding supernova, to build up into a solar system including the earth, and go through the whole geological time of the earth, until the sun dies as a red giant vaporizing the earth in the process and thus distributing the self same atoms to form dust in the universe AGAIN ; .This observation was muted by Jan Zalasiewicz in his recent book  " The Planet in a pebble ;2010ISBN 978 0 19 964569-5 I always find it hard to get my head around Geological times like a million years or 10 billion years.I tried to get some handle this morning on 10 billion years and thought in terms of a single rotation of the milky way galaxy being of the order of 1 or 2 million years ;say , the million years ;being 1000 times the time back to 1066 when William the C ; invaded England and 10,000 Revs ( being the spin of a fast motor per second ) , thinking in terms of 10,000 revolutions of the milky Way Galaxy ;=;approximately ;10,000,000,000 years .Ok. So as Zalasiewicz says in his book ( quoted above ) A single plankton dies, having digested a few atoms of whatever and sinks to the bottom of the ocean , gets covered in turbid mud, gets absorbed by microbes, rots, becomes part of the Silurian seabed 460 million odd years ago , becomes part of a stratified, folded rock layer , appears as some welsh slate in Wales U.K , Chipped out by a welsh miner 100 years ago , been on someones house for 50 years , the slate discarded a few years ago, recently eroded and back down the local river to the ocean some horrific ;number of years later from where it came from roughly. Probably these atoms having been moved from the plankton's single cell inside, on the surface of the Silurian Sea , down to the ocean bed, the whole tectonic plate at that time being south of the equator, back up to where the UK is now. The whole Eurasian plate having been shoved up here in the northern hemisphere by convection currents in the earths interior mantle; Some journey over ;460,000,000 years ( a mere half a billion years Uk billion ). One hell of a cycle.;There are the Geological cycles ( Just two of them ) .What can we conclude from these geological patterns .I love swimming in the sea and am not intimidated by high waves. If you try to face them head on one gets smashed. Turn and let the wave take you up to its crest ( assuming it has not yet broken , and its a lovely ride. May be there is a Geological lesson to be learned here.Go with the Flow , Sounds a bit Hippy ' ish. Was not intended. However appears to work,( in Geological systems that is) . So why not in our approach to living in the current geological state of the planet.

 

Just how we fit into the geological systems/cycles I am not sure! However what I am sure of is that as an industrial society we have taken some form of wrong turn somewhere along the way.

 

One lesson might be " the bugs go where they need to go to thrive and survive." Maybe there needs to be some form of redistribution of our location.?

 

Soil seems to be the end game of erosion, sediments, rock, folding, erosion , surely we can use and work within this perpetual cycling , while redistributing ourselves to where the soil is ? ( sounds like cities are out, re-population of the country is in. ) ( Cars are out , mini tractors are in ).

 

Hey this is exciting !

 

 

Edited October 14, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Athena]

Yes, well I was rather ill for 24 hours after opening the Geology book about the Silurian sea, and smelling this strange old smell which you tell me is bacteria. It was printed in 1868, so I have probably released some dreadful 'Bug' from 1868.

 

If you have some relevant point to offer on geology which requires God and humans and morals and it relates to the subject in hand, then go ahead !

 

I will just say, the difference between moral and immoral is the outcome. Ignorance is the biggest reason humans do destructive things. I think destroying our planet is the ultimate immorality. The best we can do is spread information and hope knowledge overwhelms ignorance. I think we need to discuss education, why we have it and who controls it, but that is a different subject. I just don't think the Military Industrial Complex has a motivation to assure students understand things that are really important to their lives.

 

Mike, you give new meaning to "from dust to dust".

 

Nature must be carefully balanced, and we could say "evil" results from imbalance. We learned a lot when we reintroduced wolves to their habitat. All life forms did better from trees to animals and the river and everything in the river. The moral is, too much of a good thing makes things go wrong. I want to direct this away from blaming humans, to broaden our point of view. When there are no wolves, to keep the deer population in check, the deterioration of the environment can be blamed on deer. Now, like the deer, humans are just doing what humans do. The problem is there are no forces that keep us in check. We have over come most the threats to our lives, and actually are doing a good job of prevent violence against each other too. Our biggest problem now is our success.

 

On the bright side, unlike deer we can become aware of the impact we are having, and we can change our behaviors. But darn, we have to do something about education, because humans seem to think they know everything they need to know, and are not seeking information. We need education to prevent this. That is somehow instill in young minds a burning curiosity so everyone is engaged in these forums, instead of watching mindless TV shows, or sitting at Star Bucks trying to look cool. I want to keep this on track- "conventional industry based on physics and chemistry mainly..." Who is regulating this? I few fanatic women have started screaming about how we are being poisoned by pesticides, but who pays attention to these hysterical women? Unless they are acting up, what is said in our media about the use of these chemicals?

 

A problem with relying on the bible for our understanding of reality and morals, is the book was written long ago. We had more laws against sodomy than laws regulating the pollution of our planet, and I am not sure this what we should be talking here, because this about human beings, not geology. But maybe the bible has some people fussing about the wrong things, and ignoring the things that should not be igored?

 

Several years ago, my local newspaper ignored a local author's book titled "Mineral Resources and the Destinies of Nations". This is essential information, directly impacting our daily lives, from the price of oil, to the wars we get into, and the newspaper ignored it. The author's second book, "GeoDestinies" got the author a special award from the Geological Association, and this time I was able to get the editor of the paper to pay attention to it, so just before everyone realized we have an oil supply problem, the local newspaper did acknowledge this problem. I mean talk about the problem ignorance can cause! Being ignorant of the connection between oil and our economy and oil and war is about the worst! Ah, we seriously need to rely on something besides the bible to understand life, and I think we need to rethink education, and stop preparing products for industry who are unprepared for life in a modern world.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Athena

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I will just say, the difference between moral and immoral is the outcome. Ignorance is the biggest reason humans do destructive things. I think destroying our planet is the ultimate immorality. The best we can do is spread information and hope knowledge overwhelms ignorance. I think we need to discuss education, why we have it and who controls it, but that is a different subject. I just don't think the Military Industrial Complex has a motivation to assure students understand things that are really important to their lives.

 

Mike, you give new meaning to "from dust to dust".

 

Nature must be carefully balanced, and we could say "evil" results from imbalance. We learned a lot when we reintroduced wolves to their habitat. All life forms did better from trees to animals and the river and everything in the river. The moral is, too much of a good thing makes things go wrong. I want to direct this away from blaming humans, to broaden our point of view. When there are no wolves, to keep the deer population in check, the deterioration of the environment can be blamed on deer. Now, like the deer, humans are just doing what humans do. The problem is there are no forces that keep us in check. We have over come most the threats to our lives, and actually are doing a good job of prevent violence against each other too. Our biggest problem now is our success.

 

On the bright side, unlike deer we can become aware of the impact we are having, and we can change our behaviors. But darn, we have to do something about education, because humans seem to think they know everything they need to know, and are not seeking information. We need education to prevent this. That is somehow instill in young minds a burning curiosity so everyone is engaged in these forums, instead of watching mindless TV shows, or sitting at Star Bucks trying to look cool. I want to keep this on track- "conventional industry based on physics and chemistry mainly..." Who is regulating this? I few fanatic women have started screaming about how we are being poisoned by pesticides, but who pays attention to these hysterical women? Unless they are acting up, what is said in our media about the use of these chemicals?

 

 

 

Geology is a study of the EARTH and as far as I am aware, and a fairly new science 1750 to today approximately. Although I suppose if one places Galileo as the start of modern science and experiment, that is not so different. But I believe that with modern radio active dating methods, and magnetic ocean sea floor measurements as they analyse tectonic plate movement, Geology has been able to get a more accurate date on artifacts and samples, thus being able to get a real handle on the strata under our feet as well as continental movements, and thus a clearer picture is now possible

 

 

The Earth is our home, and thus as any husband or householder , needs to know, he/she needs to get a good handle on the workings of the various electrical, plumbing and in this 21st century information technology systems if he is to keep the home running . So surely our priority knowledge should in in the workings of the Earth ( namely Geology )

 

So perhaps a new initiative to make Geology one of the essential subjects in school , is called for. Also perhaps television program makers should be given incentives to produce more programs on Easily understood and interesting Earth workings subjects within the area of Geology and many/multi-science subjects.

 

Perhaps other initiatives could be developed ( not just on global warming , although that is an obvious area of concern) as global warming is only one of the systems needing monitoring. To keep the idea of a householder going :- Global warming is like the householder finding " oh the central heating system seems to be malfunctioning as the thermostat reads 20 degrees centigrade but its very hot in the house at the moment" Perhaps the householder has a dripping tap, no hot water, cannot get on the internet, a damp wall, drafts whatever . There are many other symptoms appearing on the world stage at the moment having their different origin in different earth systems ( Population, crime, health, mineral supplies to mention only a few ) Many of these can be viewed better if not all in a geological context.)

 

So .... ?

Edited October 16, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Ophiolite]

Mike, at the outset I said this: It strikes me that the artificial classifcation of science into various sub-categories is an important component of the problem. Therefore I would vigorously oppose any proposal to seek solutions primarily within anyone artificially defined sphere of science.

 

You were inclined to agree: Yes I am inclined to agree , that rather than leaving things to one scientific discipline , that a multi-discipline approach to dealing with our future development of the world is really a good idea.

 

It seems the inclination left you almost at once, since you continue to promote the notion that geology should take pride of place in our bid to be good householders of the planet. At the moment one of our major problems is global warming, so shouldn't climatology be at the top of your list? Or, since we are arguably taking part in major extinction event, what about biology? Alternatively, given the fact that it is humans that are screwing things up don't we need to focus on psychology or sociology or political science?

 

Mike, I know you mean well, but I think your argument is not just simplistic, but dangerous.

 

 

Now, a secondary point. You say that: "Also perhaps television program makers should be given incentives to produce more programs on Easily understood and interesting Earth workings subjects within the area of Geology and many-science subjects."

 

Move to the UK and watch the BBC. Problem solved.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

You were inclined to agree: Yes I am inclined to agree , that rather than leaving things to one scientific discipline , that a multi-discipline approach to dealing with our future development of the world is really a good idea.

 

 

Move to the UK and watch the BBC. Problem solved.

 

I do believe in an holistic approach to world issues. I am currently trying to elevate the Geology corner of the whole spectrum, both in my own mind and others. Having experience an absolute absence of books on geology both in the library and book shops, I feel a dialogue on the subject could only do good. Having spent a lifetime working within the science area of physics , electronics , mechanics and engineering I feel slightly guilty that I have contributed is some small measure to the biased emphasis in engineering , electronics and the automotive sector, all of which seems to be giving us, or contributing to world problems. As recompense for my contribution I wish to do my little two penny worth towards highlighting a subject area ( Geology ) which might , help my childrens future and my childrens' children future .

 

As it happens , I am already in the UK. ( Devon ) trudging around the well furnish geological sites of Devon , Dorset, Somerset and Cornwall as well seeing all the lovely programs that do highlight these Geological areas. Bring them on more I say. And some !

Edited October 18, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

 

...if going with the flow means "...applying science to our daily lives and the care our planet," as Athena mentions, then I'm all for it.

 

Geology is a science for the future because it will show us how life and soil processes strongly influence the development of the planet. Learning how the planet develops and responds to life and soil processes will allow us to intentionally manage our little lifeboat as it sails forth into the future.

 

 

 

Soils are the source of our sustenance; there is value in ensuring sustenance.

 

~

 

 

 

. ESSAY .

 

.

As I said in my message " I am about to go on a figurative adventure by descending down into the Earths early state as far back as I can go and basically see what I can see. I will be heading through the Precambrian and come up again near the Precambrian Cambrian border. I will probably come across that dark black slime you talk about ! See you later !

Edited December 7, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Essay]

 

 

 

. ESSAY .

 

.

As I said in my message " I am about to go on a figurative adventure by descending down into the Earths early state as far back as I can go and basically see what I can see. I will be heading through the Precambrian and come up again near the Precambrian Cambrian border. I will probably come across that dark black slime you talk about ! See you later !

 

 

Many of the layers you'll be studying are simply petrified soils--buried and compressed (and so, heated) by time and newer soils. Older soils are also changed by the humus filtering down from above, as those older soils turn into the rock layers we see today.

===

 

It's not all organic matter/goo. There is the sand and silt and clay that give different qualities to the humus and organic matter; and the process of Humification and Diagenesis make it all so much more interesting. Current chemical analysis can often reveal the story of a lump of coal or a drop of oil, much like a diary of a carbon atom covering 100s of million of years; the story of slime and goo.

 

fyi: ...you might should look up diagenesis and humification....

See also (google/search): Cannel or boghead coals ...as well as Archaeopteris (not archaeopteryx).

 

...and then recall that early in terrestrial evolution, the entire planet might be covered with just a few species of pollen-rich plants/trees/bamboos. Biodiversity back in the early days of land plants was very limited; but when something was successful, it really took over--for a time.

...AND the plant/wood decay organisms hadn't evolved yet.... OMG!!! No decay, but burial of all that oily carbon-rich wood! Similar to how lots of oil-rich algae got buried in anoxic muds--with no decay, just diagenetic fossilization.

 

~ Enjoy!

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Help. There is no Oxygen in here I can't Breath .

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Help. There is no Oxygen in here I can't Breath .

 

 

And so the journey begins !

 

Its really quite hostile in here. My first sightings are of incoming metiorites. From what i can make out so far they have come from an accretion disc surrounding the sun . This has in turn come from a molecular cloud in this arm of the milky way. I think the calcium has already turned compound due to its reaction with carbon and water ice. I need to get down in the mantle and see whats going on with my special sensors.

 

 

Artists Impression

 

 

Edited January 4, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

. ESSAY .

 

.

As I said in my message " I am about to go on a figurative adventure by descending down into the Earths early state as far back as I can go and basically see what I can see. I will be heading through the Precambrian and come up again near the Precambrian Cambrian border. I will probably come across that dark black slime you talk about ! See you later !

 

I think I under estimated the Black Slime.

 

Once present on the earth, it seems to have spread everywhere it can . Now I have come back to the present it seems to be everywhere I look. Even in small amounts there is Slime all over the place.

 

The mats of the stromatelites are still doing there business over in Australia. But generally slime has got everywhere !