EU Nobel Peace Prize

[ACUV]

The EU received the Nobel Peace Prize while 21 EU members are members of NATO. Did anybody ever hear of a bigger piece of bullshit?

[ACG52]

Sure.

 

The year Yasar Arafat was given the peace prize. How about Henry Kissinger?

 

The peace prize is political sham.

[timo]

Or Barrack Obama receiving it simply for not being Bush junior. Not completely sure what is so wrong about being in the NATO,.

Edited October 13, 2012 by timo

[Ophiolite]

I am confident you gentlemen are correct. After all why waste time exploring the reason for the award to the EU. It's so much easier to engage in a mindless, agenda driven, knee jerk condemnation based upon ignorance, prejudice and a self-indulgent righteousness.

[JohnB]

Ophiolite is correct. Europe does indeed deserve a "Peace Prize".

 

When was the last time they went 60 years without warring with each other?

 

But seriously. Ophiolite, if you think that the prize has any meaning, could you explain what Obama did to earn it? We're talking about the political prize here, not the ones where paeople actually do amazing things in science and technology. Did he create peace in the Middle East? Lead a world wide revolution resulting in a better life for millions? Or did he just win and election?

 

Parts of the prize have become highly politicized. Calling it out as such is neither "kneejerk" nor "agenda driven", it is simply telling the truth.

[Ophiolite]

Please note that I was addressing specifically the award of the prize to Europe and not any other awards in previous years. The thread title addresses the current award and that is all I wish to address within this thread. In that regard posters seem to me to be guilty of a logical fallacy. i.e.

 

The Peace Prize has previously been awarded to undeserving recipients.

Therefore all recipients are undeserving.

 

I felt characterising this as knee jerk and agenda driven was less personal than calling it monumentally dumb.

[timo]

Please note that I was addressing specifically the award of the prize to Europe and not any other awards in previous years. The thread title addresses the current award and that is all I wish to address within this thread. In that regard posters seem to me to be guilty of a logical fallacy. i.e. ..

I could as well accuse you of only having read the thread title and not the OP. I find it rather alien that you feel competent to judge my intellectual capacity or my thoughts about the EU (=me) having been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize from my statement that giving the prize to Obama the previous time was a joke.

[Ophiolite]

I am not aware of convincing research which shows a direct correlation between intellectual capacity and incidents of "mindless, agenda driven, knee jerk condemnation based upon ignorance, prejudice and a self-indulgent righteousness." However, if such research exists I would be interested to see it.

[timo]

I was somehow expecting an apology rather than an insult.

[Ophiolite]

Then I have not been clear. I did not insult your intellect in my first post, nor was my last post intended as an insult.

 

I am now stating clearly that there was no intention to insult your intellect in my first post. I am sorry that you misinterpreted my intent. As the writer it is my responsibility to be clear. Obviously I failed to be so. However, I cannot apologise for something I did not do. I attempted to bring this out in my second post, which you have again interpreted as an insult, when it was meant to be two things:

1) A lighthearted riposte to reduce tension.

2) A genuine enquiry as to whether we do have any research out there which shows the correlation I spoke of.

 

There is nothing I can do if you choose to be insulted by what you think I have said, other than to explain to you that you have misunderstood.

 

By the by, your post I interpreted to implicitly agree with the OP and therefore my remarks included you. Are you telling me I misinterpreted your implicit content?

[ElasticCollision]

After Obama won it, I think it lost a lot of credibility. Now it has just become meaningless in my mind. The EU have done nothing to create peace in Europe.

Just look at the situation in Greece, Spain, Germany, Italy, etc.

Edited October 13, 2012 by ElasticCollision

[ecoli]

I hear they just gave the Nobel Prize in medicine to an attenuated influenza virus.

[timo]

By the by, your post I interpreted to implicitly agree with the OP and therefore my remarks included you. Are you telling me I misinterpreted your implicit content?

I am telling you that whatever content you interpreted into what I actually said is unfounded. Furthermore, I was trying to express that your insults (*) based on these implications that only exist in your mind are alienating. Since I see no end to this silly discussion otherwise: I do not consider awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to the EU a bad idea.

 

(*) I acknowledge you do not consider your statements insulting. I do - and certainly don't want to discuss that.

[ACUV]

The EU received the Nobel Peace Prize while 21 EU members are members of NATO. Did anybody ever hear of a bigger piece of bullshit?

 

There is of course being in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation and not being in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation whilst being in the European Community, sorry, Union. I wonder how the European Community, sorry again, Union can be given a prize meant for momentous occasions in history such as, well, why not peruse the recipients while pondering their qualities?

 

http://www.nobelpriz...eace/laureates/

edit : spelling and a ?

Edited October 13, 2012 by ACUV

[Ophiolite]

I am telling you that whatever content you interpreted into what I actually said is unfounded.

Excellent. Communication on internet forums is full of misunderstandings and misreadings. Thank you for clarifying your position.

 

Furthermore, I was trying to express that your insults (*) based on these implications that only exist in your mind are alienating.

The implications certainly were derived in my mind, but based upon what you wrote. I accept responsibility when people misread what I have written. I'm sorry you don't see the value in such an approach. Basically you are telling me you feel alienated and insulted even although I have told you no insult was intended. It seems you want to be offended.

 

Let me just add if I wished to insult you then you would be in absolutely no doubt that an insult had been delivered. I have no wish to insult you. I didn't insult you. You misinterpreted what I wrote - please, get over it.

 

I acknowledge you do not consider your statements insulting. I do - and certainly don't want to discuss that.

That's fine. No discussion from you, but naturally I reserve the right to comment. I really do find it puzzling that you choose to be insulted even although no intention to insult existed. That's weird behaviour. But, each to their own. Take care.

[ACUV]

So is your country in NATO and the EU? Do you think your country deserves a part of a prize for peace as a member of both? Timo, ecoli, ElasticCollision, JohnB, ACG52, Ophiolight?

[Ophiolite]

NATO's reluctant, but eventually successful role in halting the Balkan conflict in itself deserved the peace prize a decade ago. You seem to fail to understand that the function of a modern army is not to wage war, but to preven them.

[ACUV]

Seemingly so IYO then, it will have to be! Ophiolite, do you realise NATO does not represent the EU?

Edited October 14, 2012 by ACUV

[Ophiolite]

I'm sorry if I seemed to imply that, although that was very close to your position in the OP. The award of the Nobel Peace Prize to the EU was because it had "for over six decades contributed to the advancement of peace and reconciliation, democracy and human rights in Europe". You're opening post made a close tie between the EU and NATO, based on the number of coountries which are part of both organisations.

 

The award of the prize to the EU had nothing to do with NATO.

 

NATO arguably was a due the prize earlier for helping resolve the Balkan conflict.

 

These two points are independent.

[ACUV]

The EU received the Nobel Peace Prize while 21 EU members are members of NATO. Did anybody ever hear of a bigger piece of bullshit?

 

This is the Original Post Ophiolite.

 

I understand that NATO does not represent the EU. Is your country in the EU and NATO? If the answer to this question is yes then I'm asking you the following.

 

Does your country deserve this peace prize or part thereof?

[Ophiolite]

No country within the EU deserves the peace prize. The EU itself deserves the peace prize. It is the unified whole acting as a unit that merits that prize. I see no value in segmenting it. Next you might well ask me if specific parties within particular countries deserve a share in the prize and then specific citizens.

 

Since it seems important to you, thought wholly irrelevant to me, the country in which I currently reside and whose passport I carry is in the EU and NATO and the WHO and UN and G8 and UNESCO and the World Bank etc, etc, etc.

[ACUV]

Ophiolite,

 

Does your country deserve it inclusive or exclusive of it's NATO role?

[padren]

Why is NATO coming up so much in regards to the EU getting this recognition?

 

I don't understand the connection.

 

 

Personally, the only way I can think about the Nobel Peace Prize without getting into fights over it is by cutting them a whole lot of slack - peace is by far the most difficult human endeavor, not because there's so many scary violent people but we all suck so badly at objectivity that it's hard to even talk about progress towards greater peace without it becoming a source for angry derision.

 

I am not saying their decisions shouldn't be criticized or that they are always good - it just strikes me that we really don't have much of a clue on how to recognize and promote peace in our time. These guys are trying and they really should suck at it, and if they don't give up and continue to get support, constructive criticism, they should suck less over time much to the betterment of us all.

[Ophiolite]

Ophiolite,

 

Does your country deserve it inclusive or exclusive of it's NATO role?

Earlier I said it was the responsibility of the writer to make himself understood, but I do expect at least some effort on the part of the reader.

 

Which part of this did you not understand?

 

No country within the EU deserves the peace prize. The EU itself deserves the peace prize. It is the unified whole acting as a unit that merits that prize

 

The existence of NATO has certainly played a major role in ensuring the peace within Europe which is part of the rationale for awarding the prize. Therefore the EU deserves the prize in part because of the existence and actions of NATO.

 

Now will you answer a question. Why are you so obssessed about 'my country' and how I view it. I am a human. I live in the world. Despite their many weaknesses I have great admiration for the human capacity for cooperation, long term thinking and discovery. I happen to have a particular association with one part of the world, Europe. But I have lived and worked in six of the world's capital cities (only one of them European), visited more than fifty of them and have friends of more than a score of nationalities. Your obsession with 'my country' strikes me as parochial.

[ACUV]

 

Why is NATO coming up so much in regards to the EU getting this recognition?

 

I don't understand the connection.

 

 

It's a little like this Padren. Imagine if an organisation existed for the betterment of whales. Imagine if a famous organisation respected, in general, for the recognition of good deeds, happened to give their annual prize in respected recognition to this organisation which existed for the betterment of whales, all this while some of the members were also members of an organisation who have had a very questionable attitude about whether in fact they liked to see the detriment of whales.

 

Would it be fair questioning this?

 

 

The existence of NATO has certainly played a major role in ensuring the peace within Europe which is part of the rationale for awarding the prize. Therefore the EU deserves the prize in part because of the existence and actions of NATO.

 

 

Surely tis like saying, you deserve to be applauded for beating up the bully at school even though your brother knee'd him in the nuts.

 

 

Now will you answer a question. Why are you so obssessed about 'my country' and how I view it.

 

 

How obsessed you think I am, I don't know. If you were asked about your own country maybe you might feel more at ease answering about it. Does the man in the street/pub/church/bus station think your country is now being recognised in it's peaceful pursuits, with a little or a lot of help from NATO?