Synthesis of Potassium Perclorate

[boris_73]

well my battery charger use's a main socket supply but batterys does seem like a good idea but how long will thay last not very long i assume

[YT2095]

I reccomend for a 1`st time, doing it with less than 100ml total (use a tea cup).

 

see how you get on with that (that`s all I used in quantity as a kid).

By all means DO IT, I`m not trying to discourage you in anyway, I`m just trying to help you walk before running, or building some industrial scale thingy without ever having tested small scale

 

and btw, 5 days is a load of garbage, get your voltage and current right and molarity and temp, you`ll have have your Chlorate in less than 2 days!

the perchlorate is about the same too.

 

you are doing it ass backwards though, the Sodium version is much more soluble and faster reacting, the conversion to the Potassium salt after takes only Minutes!

 

WHY you`re strating with a K salt in the 1`st place beats me!??????

[Aspirin]

I suppose that you can shut it down i'd say every 6 hours to put some fresh batteries in while the other ones are charging up again

[boris_73]

so will a battery charger with 10w be the right current and what molarity should it be for say 100g then or at least 50g because it mentions if you have a very high concentration of potassium chloride it starts producing more chlorates which i do not want, i am using potassium chloride to make potassium perchlorate because its a better oxidiser ect even though it does take longer to make and is less soluble, and i am 18 im may not exactly a kid and one more thing how is it possible to heat the solution and keep it at say 40c especially with a plastic bucket because even if you used a heat resistant container a very low heat will still go higher then 40c in two days two days a least if i use the correct molarity voltage and heat ect

 

Edit: i have got 12g of sodium chloride and 48g of potassium chloride for about 100g of potassium perchlorate will this molarity be fine

[YT2095]

the elec keeps it hot (hence the need for considerable current, or time with low current).

 

you confuse me with the 18 bit, what`s the relevence here?

 

and yes, you`re really making extra work for yourself by STARTING with a K salt, seriously you ARE! (

 

as for the molarity, either scale down your existing synth quantities or make a saturated soln using a Na salt

[boris_73]

i dont know if you have read the edit above but i am using 12g of sodium chloride and 48g of potassium chloride but considering it is harder using a K salt i will use a Na salt so will 60g of Na salt work to get roughly 100g of sodium perchlorate, and will my battery charger be fine for the current i have either 10w one input: 200-240v 135mA 50-60Hz output: 10w or the 5volt one input:100-240v ~ 0.4A 50-60Hz output: 5v= 2A and i will be using 400ml of water will this set up be fine also should i still going to be concernd with the chlorine using this small sorry these are the last things i am going to ask if everything is fine hopefully:))) how long will it take using the 5v battery charger because it has more currents still about 2 days

[YT2095]

thing at a time, using NaCl only and from the start is a good choice! keep your Lo-Salt for the conversion after (it only takes minutes MAX!).

 

the thing to do now, is to make a saturated soln of it and use that, it really is that simple, don`t over complicate things for yourself on this synth, there`s no real maths needed at all, it REALLY is that easy!

 

oh yeah, and don`t forget to check your liquid level every now and then and feel free to top up with hot water from the kettle if it gets too low

[boris_73]

sorry i know i said ill ask no more questions but anyway ) should i still be conserned about the chlorine or will a window open be enough and when should i add the lo-salt once i have made sodium perchlorate and then should i a make a solution of sodium perchlorate and lo-salt and electrolise it and this will give me potassium perchlorate if so then that will be good because i can see the differnces between potassium and sodium perchlorate

 

Edit: which battery charger will work better the 5v or the 10w but the 5v one does have more current then the 10w

[jdurg]

Chlorine gas is much denser than air, so it will tend to settle down to the ground and collect. So just having an open window won't do a heck of a lot unless you can set up some air currents which will direct the gas out to the open window. With all the chlorine that will be generated, there actually may be a concern with the hydrogen gas. If the hydrogen and chlorine gasses mix, the presence of light is enough to make it react and explode forming hydrogen chloride gas!

[boris_73]

bloody hell i thought i would be in the clear now i have to worry about hydrogen and chlorine reacting and exloding to for hydrogen chloride gas the process isnt as simple as its made out to be

 

Edit: coming to think about it i dont think that much hydrogen will be produced i use to set up an electrolysis set using pencil leads a 9volt battery and two bottles upside down in water and i left it for about 2 hours for some reason i could never produce any hydrogen but i managed to produce a little oxygen this way but it was a very small amount all i can think what went wrong with the hydrogen is that it floated away when i went to ignite it

[Aspirin]

Don't do experiments in the house .

Synthesise KCLO4 in a garden shed or at some relatives's farm (if you have any relatives like that). I mean who the hell cares about a stinky garden shed if it blows up. It's not likely that it'll blow up if you don't have any lights in it.

[boris_73]

i suppose i could use a shed and connect my battery charger to an extension cord ha problem solved, but i still want to know how much hydrogen and chlorine will be produced from 60g of sodium chloride and 400ml of water and if there is an actual danger of an explosion

[YT2095]

before we we start little panic alerts here, the only concern is the Chlorine, I`ve been doing this synth on and off for nearly 20 years and on scales of 50 Litres at a time during!

 

I`ve NEVER had an explosion now do I know anyone that has!

 

so before we start to write our little wills out in panic, I tell you again the only Danger is the Cl gas! and you`ll smell long before it creates a problem!

 

`Nuff Said!

[boris_73]

well that's fine with me so my set up will be in a shed and even if chlorine is produced it wont be near any people and by the time process has finished the chlorine should be in the atmosphere:)))) all i need to know now is what i asked above

1. will the 5v battery charger be better because it has more current

2. when i have made sodium perchlorate should i make a solution of sodium perchlorate and lo-salt and use electrolysis to make potassium perchlorate

3. will 3 days be enough for the reaction to finish

4. should i still check the amps to get a reading of 8-12 on the carbon rod or is this rubbish

 

Edit actually ill do it in my garage at least there is a mains supply in there, will there be any problem with the chlorine reacting with any chemicals in the garage or is there not going to be enough chlorine produced to do any damage by. chemicals i mean garden chemicals weed killer ect

[YT2095]

2. NO!

 

make you sodium perc, make a soln of the lowsalt add the 2 together and stir, in seconds the KClO4 will fall out of soln

[boris_73]

what thats it its that easy how much lo-salt should i add to if i had say 50g of sodium perchlorate does'nt it matter say in excess eg 60g also one more thing to make sure i have got rid of all the chlorates will the cristalization process get rid of them all if i do it twice sorry for keep asking all these questions i just want to make sure i have got everything clear before i make it

 

Edit: do you use the coffee can or coke can as a steel electrode or do you use something else

 

Edit2: what do you do about the chlorine when you produce 20+ ltrs just leave a bottle of ammonia around

 

Edit3: and do you have to check the amps as well as the water level every few hours

 

Edit4: how can you dry either potassium or sodium perchlorate

[lucky45]

also where can you but potassium chloride from i have tried Holland and Barrett because i thought they would sell it but no luck also where can you buy potassium dicromate from

 

You can buy potassium chloride at any water conditioning store I buy mine at a local True Value 40 lbs for 20 dollars. And you can buy Potassium Dicromate at (The science store) online.If you use it in your KCL cell you will have to use Barium Chloride after your cell has done running to precipitate it out (Both chemicals are POISINOUS!! so be carefull I use it and I have my own way of filtering it out without a filter.Next time Lucky45

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bugar, if there is going to be that much chlorine produced i dont think ill do it but it seems such a simple and quite easy way to make it, unless i can actually find something to absorb the chlorine but saying that there is going to be 5 days worth of chlorine produced

What I do in one of my many Chlorate cells to exaust chlorine (experimental only) is I have a little silicon hose (1/8th" diameter) epoxied to my cell lid flush to inside of lide and attach a fish tank air pump hooked up to it forcing gas out my main exaust tube which it vented outside. It works for me, Lucky45

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If you're worried about the iodide, just run a massive amount of chlorine gas through a solution of the salt. This will cause the KI to turn into KCl and I2. Then you just need to evaporate to dryness. The final step would be to spread the crystals out over a large surface area and heat it up a good deal. This will cause any remaining iodine to sublimate away leaving you with a pure KCl.

 

what thats it its that easy how much lo-salt should i add to if i had say 50g of sodium perchlorate does'nt it matter say in excess eg 60g also one more thing to make sure i have got rid of all the chlorates will the cristalization process get rid of them all if i do it twice sorry for keep asking all these questions i just want to make sure i have got everything clear before i make it

 

Edit: do you use the coffee can or coke can as a steel electrode or do you use something else

 

Edit2: what do you do about the chlorine when you produce 20+ ltrs just leave a bottle of ammonia around

 

Edit3: and do you have to check the amps as well as the water level every few hours

 

Edit4: how can you dry either potassium or sodium perchlorate

 

Hi There What I do to dry my KCLO4 is to put it in a pyrex dish and set it on top of my oil burner for 3 days (mild heat) then I powder some in a granite bowl with pestal finally I put under a heat lamp about 10 inches apart for about 1 minuete note; BE carefull you dont have anything organic or Al powder in with it!!! It must be pure!!! Lucky45

[lucky45]

I Have made KCLO4 by 3 differant methods so far The best way although it takes about 2 weeks to make is by electroysis using either Titanium or SSteel But use hospital grade SSteel. Very little cleaning is involved and no contamination of your cell liquor.

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I Have made KCLO4 by 3 differant methods so far The best way although it takes about 2 weeks to make is by electroysis using either Titanium or SSteel But use hospital grade SSteel. Very little cleaning is involved and no contamination of your cell liquor.

Use a platinum anode

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Ihave been making KCLO4 for over 2 yrs Aspirin, Ill post my thoughts asap. Im in the middle of purifying some KCLO4 right now, talk later

[lucky45]

I dont use a coffee can or anything like that. I use an acrilic jar for my cell body. I also use Titanium for my cathode, however ( you can use a high grade of SSteel. Kitchen or hospital grade) not that real shiny SS you see everywhere. Also The currant I use is 5-6 volt -4-15 amps. The higher the amps the faster you make perchlorate, but you must use a water bath with anything over 6 amps. also My cell is sealed and I vent to outside. If you make KCLO4 from KCL. you will get chlorine gas. Lastly I get my raw product and let dry on top of my oil burner or coal stove. Then I mill it in a mortar and pestal to consistency of baybe powder. the I put in a glass pie pan and hold a heat gun over it,stiring constantly untill it flows like flour. Anymore questions please post me.. (forgot to say that there are very few metals that you can use for an anode. The best is Platinum,- next is lead dioxide, and also MMO metals will work. Tell me what are you using for a power source?

[DeepSpace]

Pt anh MMO anode are difficult to get =.=