Mike Smith Cosmos Posted October 24, 2012 Posted October 24, 2012 (edited) If various OLOGIES are looking out for various aspects of world systems. EG Geology looking at the structure of the earth and its long history; Geography looking at the surface systems, Biology looking out for living things, etc etc Who specifically has the discipline that looks out for not just climate, but the whole shebang ! Ocean, air, rocks, life , climate, minerals , sea and all the interlinking systems that keep the Earth as a working system. Is there a degree course with ensuing professors who make it their business to get a handle on the WHOLE EARTH SYSTEM/SYSTEMS ? Edited October 24, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos
iDevonian Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Geology is more than just structural geology. I am sure other "ologies" cross around in other fields as well. We have environmental geology, hydrogeology, paleontology etc. Our views in geology often encompass the world as a whole. Other sciences do as well though. It is just a matter of what your specialty is. A geologist may be a geophysicist or a hydrogeologist, or a mineralogist, but a single individual cannot be an expert in all of these, even if the field covers them all. A single human cannot be an expert in all aspects of all fields. As a geologist though, I do look at a grand picture, personally.
Ophiolite Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 These days some university departments that would previously have been known as Geology are now known by the more general term Earth Sciences. I think that would capture the slighter wider range of topics you, Mike, are considering. I'll also note that your emboldened word specifically creates an ambiguity. You are asking what generalist deals in specifics. I suggest that there is no such beast. Perhaps we could coin a new name: Gaiaist. Hmm. Perhaps not.
Arete Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Is there a degree course with ensuing professors who make it their business to get a handle on the WHOLE EARTH SYSTEM/SYSTEMS ? I guess the closest I can think of off the top of my head are Bachelor of Environmental Science degrees - in which you touch on geology, geomorphology, atmospheric sciences, biology, etc. You might also be interested in GIS multifaceted spatial type studies - the added bonus being a significant industry demand for people with GIS skills. The issue that by becoming a jack of all trades, most scientists would become a master of none. Research, by its nature errs towards specialization, rather than trying to study everything at once.
Appolinaria Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Who specifically has the discipline that looks out for not just climate, but the whole shebang ! Ocean, air, rocks, life , climate, minerals , sea and all the interlinking systems that keep the Earth as a working system. What about ecology
STeve555 Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) You are basically implying the existence of a close to or total omniscient human being. Dude! Polymaths like that are quite hard to come by. There is one idiot savant out there who retains all he reads in books. And I do mean "all". "I am not sure whether I belong to the world of the living as of now, but I is the mofo closest to your wet übermensch dream." - Kim Peek. Some niggaz say you only use 5 percent of your total brain capacity. Well, if you use 20 percent you be like him. Something has got to give, though. Meaning, casus quo, he loaths white as well as eskimo (inuit in his vocabulary) people. When encountered with these sort of people he starts hissing like a scared cat and protrudes his nails for all haters to see. And he killed all five of his ex-wifes. All became his ex-wife after the slashing of the crotch-aorta. Edited October 26, 2012 by STeve555
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted October 26, 2012 Author Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) Geology is more than just structural geology. I am sure other "ologies" cross around in other fields as well. We have environmental geology, hydrogeology, paleontology etc. Our views in geology often encompass the world as a whole. Other sciences do as well though. It is just a matter of what your specialty is. A geologist may be a geophysicist or a hydrogeologist, or a mineralogist, but a single individual cannot be an expert in all of these, even if the field covers them all. A single human cannot be an expert in all aspects of all fields. As a geologist though, I do look at a grand picture, personally. Also Ophiolite, Arete, Appolinaria I guess what I was asking , was not what an individual should have as a sphere of expertise but what Institute or August body is in fact making it , its business to be intellectually involved in looking at the whole earth as a functioning system. Clearly James Lovelock ( Re Gaia ) now aged 93 has made it his personal business to address this matter, but is there no institute or august body that is approaching this matter. Perhaps by way of illustration :- If an intelligent beings' space ship or other device arrived on earth and asked to be taken to meet the organisation or body of intelligent persons who are responsible for the understanding of, the monitoring and if necessary adjusting where able and necessary, any possible control mechanisms :- To which organisation, institute or august body should we direct these said intelligent beings? ? EEK Some Question . As I write this it reminds me a bit of the Film " The man who fell to earth " Lets up the tempo . If the said intelligent being stated that we had been observed by them only very recently and they realized we were at a very real TIPPING POINT ( namely a not easily reversible situation ) . There is not the time to go through time consuming seminars, debates and interest groups who have their own agendas . To which organised body of persons, who would best be able to respond and understand what our visitors have to say about the Earth and its Total System/systems ? What would actually get done about things afterwards is another question all together, but some Institute or August body would need to understand about things immediately, as they as an Institute or August Body would know and recognize as they are already the experts . Who are these people and what is this Institute or August body . I think this is outside of political systems. These days some university departments that would previously have been known as Geology are now known by the more general term Earth Sciences. I think that would capture the slighter wider range of topics you, Mike, are considering. I'll also note that your emboldened word specifically creates an ambiguity. You are asking what generalist deals in specifics. I suggest that there is no such beast. Perhaps we could coin a new name: Gaiaist. Hmm. Perhaps not. Comments as to iDevonian Above or below Edited October 26, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 We're human. We don't do things like that. I really do think we ought to get ourselves together. ( ie some form of scientific representative body ). Surely the greatest size storm in living memory hitting east coast America is testimony that we are having some form of impact on our weather patterns .
PD7 Posted November 10, 2012 Posted November 10, 2012 What one science could help all other types? I would say phonology is rather important. The science of the phonetic and phonemic systems of a language. Read more: http://www.faqs.org/ologies-isms/Sou-Und/Sound.html#ixzz2BrNE80ts If not that then the science of Taxonomy is also important because its how we classify life forms into groups and species. Maybe a type of taxonomy could be started just to study what is impossible or possible. Call it maybe "Impossology". It could borrow from other type like environmental science and other studies do. Maybe probability and cause and effect. Other than that I am crossed as to what science is the most important. I consider all science important.
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted November 10, 2012 Author Posted November 10, 2012 What one science could help all other types? I would say phonology is rather important. The science of the phonetic and phonemic systems of a language. Read more: http://www.faqs.org/...l#ixzz2BrNE80ts If not that then the science of Taxonomy is also important because its how we classify life forms into groups and species. Maybe a type of taxonomy could be started just to study what is impossible or possible. Call it maybe "Impossology". It could borrow from other type like environmental science and other studies do. Maybe probability and cause and effect. Other than that I am crossed as to what science is the most important. I consider all science important. This post was originally driven by the idea that no One Group of organised individuals were looking out for the overall well-being of the Earth. That is if you removed groups having their own group agenda. As geology has one of the longest patch of earth history in its research agenda ( ie 4500 million years ago to the present day ) It might well have some ideas nestling in its data bank, as to how we should work within our environment. The famous scientist James Lovelock has tried to alert interested parties about what is likely to happen if we do not get our act together quickly, but not too many people seem to be listening.
Ophiolite Posted November 11, 2012 Posted November 11, 2012 Mike, it is almost as if you are wholly unaware of the work of the IPCC. Further, given that the issues relate primarily to biology, why do you think geologists should take the lead?
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted November 12, 2012 Author Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) Mike, it is almost as if you are wholly unaware of the work of the IPCC. Further, given that the issues relate primarily to biology, why do you think geologists should take the lead? No I am not trying to be oblivious to all the hard work of all of the scientists , of all of the organisations , of all of the quango's, of all of the political organisations etc who are pouring their lives out into " Playing a harp , while Rome burns " . But who is standing up and saying. Hang about guys we have really got to do something like next week, or next month, or next year, not in a few years when we might have quietly slipped over a " tipping point". Geological history seems to be full of a lot of tipping points, as far as I can see. These seem to precipitate sudden major changes. Our current industrial way of doing things seems to be shoving us ever more quickly to a tipping point. Poor old James Lovelock has been saying this for quite some time, He is now 93 . So yes I think Geology might well have a part in that voice on the river bank above the waterfall . Who is going to be the voice at the waterfalls edge shouting " Go Back to the side , before you go over the waterfall " ?. Why is he or she not on the media NOW . Today in Britain " die Back is sweeping out the ASH tree. Today in Venice the water flowed across the main square. Last week or two the floods came into USA. There is talk of a sunspot cycle all time low activity. This summer Britain did not have one. I was in Italy all summer and every, thing was burned to a crisp, water tables were disappearing , fires were raging . Who is going to say something ! Hey guys we need to go to higher ground ! (together with a few other things, like stop breeding so much , stop using oil and coal, start planting , start radically changing our way of life, start using all this science to provide everyone with the necessities of life etc etc etc etc etc ). . . Edited November 12, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos
Ophiolite Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Mike, as I tried to convey in an earlier post we have not evolved political machinery to the point where decisions between competing and diverse cultures can be made on a global level in a short space of time. The demands that we do something now are being expressed by individuals, organisations and governments. It does seem as if you are as unaware of these appeals as the key decision makers. Perhaps you and they should both try harder. You declare emotionally: ......... like stop breeding so much , But you fail to applaud the one child policy of China, or to recognise that Italy's population would be declining were it not for immigration and other European nations are heading in the same direction. stop using oil and coal, The Scottish government is targeting 50% of energy needs to be supplied by renewables by 2015. And that is simply step 1. start using all this science to provide everyone with the necessities of life etc etc etc etc etc How do you think we are able to feed and clothe 7 billion people. I'm sorry Mike, I applaud your passion, your intentions and your empathy, but I have serious reservations about your grasp of the facts.
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted November 13, 2012 Author Posted November 13, 2012 A) How do you think we are able to feed and clothe 7 billion people. B )I'm sorry Mike, I applaud your passion, your intentions and your empathy, but I have serious reservations about your grasp of the facts. Comment A) I think on the matter of feeding of 7,000,000,000 people. I believe somebody worked out how much each individual would get if all the productive land were divided up equally per person, I think it is approximately 1 hectare or two and a half acres of fertile ground. So I'm sure people could feed themselves on that ( with a family having by proportion more ). So there needs to be a bit of a reorganization somehow. Some simple mechanization ( on a " small is beautiful Basis " Shumacker ). A certain amount of bartering of labor through a simple world currency. Comment B ) Its not that I am unaware of all these people and organisations you have mentioned. But we seem to have all gone to sleep. When I was an angry young man in the 1960's? 1970's . Bob Dylan was singing evocative; people were lying about with flowers in their hair: grown men were streaking with no clothes on : Greenham common women were chaining themselves to railings out side American Air bases. People were marching 'Ban the Bomb' Green peace were sending boats into various Hot spots of challenge. The TV news was full of it. Now where we are potentially facing the next extinction event so I've been told, except this time its not Ediacaran enigmata or the dinosaurs that are facing mass extinctions but this time its Human beings facing it , unless we do something PDQ ( pretty dam quick ). YET The reported news now is all about some Prominent figure misbehaving: high power executives being paid incredible, in fact repugnant amounts of money when they fail in their job description, Afganistan, Banking and financial systems getting in a muddle etc night after night after night. If we look through the Geological history from the supercontinent of Rodinia, through the Supercontinent of Pangaea, on to the Next future supercontinent it is studded with change. Things had to change to adapt to new conditions. Humanity must change radically, an PDQ if it is to adapt and survive. Why do we not here this on the news , night after night , why are not all the other equivalent symptoms of the 60's and 70's not bubbling up. Perhaps we have all gone to sleep.
cofu Posted December 5, 2012 Posted December 5, 2012 to Mike Smith Cosmos - There is a looking out for the Earth as a whole... Reconstruction - II www.mammoths.50megs.com * The past of a planet includes: stage I - when the Earth was in other Galaxy; stages II, III, IV - when the Earth casually appeared in Solar system. All planets of Solar system - space wanderers, but the Earth (with inhabitants) could overcome a way from depths of Space - only in System of planets. The difference of speeds (at call into an orbit of the Sun) has practically fused all planet, thus the attitude of weights (Ms / magma), and also the attitude of volumes of an environment of a planet and magma has sharply changed. These factors have caused a break of Continent and occurrence of hills (in an equatorial part), later (30 - 60 days), centripetal forces have ordered coordinates of continental parts - so Atlantic ocean has appeared. During II stage the gravity has changed, the radius of a planet (the Ural mountains) has changed, the level of Ocean has raised, the geographical kind of a planet has cardinally changed. The areas of continental parts, which appeared (after II stage) in a zone of polar circles have caused the beginning of the new natural phenomenon; during III stage has proceeded (9 cycles) the new natural phenomenon (III of type). With the beginning of III stage in an environment of a planet after passive heating bowels (during II stage), have started to burn out active fragments - so separate mountain tops with volcanoes have appeared, after (9 cycles) new natural phenomenon on last site of the schedule (a1 - a) the environment of a planet in a zone of the Southern polar circle "has burnt through". As the result, a thermal stream of bowels and a solar energy have practically to melt all ice on a planet behind exception (29 million км3) - so at an extraordinary level of Ocean began IV stage, further in time (b1 – b11 - c) the thermal stream of bowels and a solar energy (temporarily) stabilize abnormal weight of an ice dome and non-stationary position Ms. The full cycle (f1 – a1) the natural phenomenon III of type includes: stationary (f1 - f) and non-stationary (e - d) positions Ms, and also avalanche sites of the schedule (f - e) and (d – a1). In time (f1 - f) - the total weight of ice domes reached size (~ 500 million км3), in time (f - e) - turn Ms on a corner (~ 25o) followed, and in a point (e) - dynamic balance Ms was established at min a level of Ocean and max by weight of ice domes, which in part (~ 2000 km) left zones of polar circles. As result, in time (e - d) - started to thaw and collapse in part ice domes (winter - summer), a level of Ocean intensively rose up to max marks, in time (d – a1) - the environment of a planet came back again in a stationary position. In a point (a1) - dynamic balance Ms with weight of ice domes (~ 150 million км3) was established at max a level of Ocean, so during III stage has proceeded (9 cycles) the new natural phenomenon. The system of weights (Ms / magma / a nucleus of a planet) is some kind of symmetric a humming top which rotates around of an axis in space, continuous turns Ms in stationary and non-stationary positions during III stage - have caused precession nucleus of a planet, and all system of weights (Ms / magma / a nucleus of a planet) as a whole. That математически to prove precession this system of weights - it is necessary to have an exact picture of internal party Ms which adjoins to magma, this problem is much more actual, than flight to Mars.* The external party of an environment of a planet on site World Ocean Floor Map shows, that the areas of continents during III stage were more as the shelf was a land, it has allowed to define max a mark of a level of Ocean, which was on (~ 400 м) below present mark in a point (с). Mediterranean sea repeatedly (9 times) was cut from Ocean, hence, a level of Ocean repeatedly fell on (~ 1400 м), these conditions were elementary carried out at weight of ice domes which changed in limits (~ 150 - 500 million кm3). Changes during a full cycle of the natural phenomenon (f1 – a1) - have allowed to define, with what speed the point (с) on sites of the schedule moved: (f1 - f) - the areas of ice domes and (on a surface of ice domes) allow to define quantity of annual deposits, for what time changed a level of Ocean in limits (~ 1400 м), this time makes (~ 50 - 80 thousand years); (f - e) - the read out days; (e - d) - step thawing and disorder (parts) of ice domes, this time makes (~ 30 - 50 years). Thus in time (f1-f) - continuously replenished a level of Caspian sea, deserts of Central Asia were a bottom of this sea, Black sea - which never had an output in Ocean, in a final phase of a site of the schedule (f1 - f) - Mediterranean sea was cut from Ocean; * In time (e - d) - disorder and thawing (parts) of ice domes in Northern hemisphere, water streams polished a granite in territory of the countries which adjoined to an ice dome, namely Scandinavian countries, Baltic, Canada - this volume of mechanical work was made by water streams (with sand), for (have executed 9 cycles) the natural phenomenon. Hence, the hypothesis about glaciers come many millions years ago - leisure fiction, a planet appeared in an orbit of the Sun in limits (500 - 800 thousand years), any Stone, Bronze, the Iron Ages also was not, a science Evolution and numerous opuses as there was a life on this planet, fairy tales on Neanderthal men - it is necessary to send for a long time in archive. Unfortunately Homo sapiens which have escaped after changes in time II stage, and have not understood, that they now are (not on a planet), and on the external party of an environment of a planet which continuously turned in stationary and non-stationary positions during III stage. Now the thermal stream of bowels changes a configuration of an environment of a planet especially intensively in the Southern hemisphere, Hence, on turn of change this will follow, about approach V of a stage. And which once again appear sudden for inhabitants who are allocated intelligence * Models of the globe Static and Dynamic have differentiated changes on a planet as a whole and on continents in particular is concrete on each stage, in what degree these changes were accompanied by geographical changes accordingly zones of linear displacement Ms. These models have proved, that the climate globally did not vary, even a code the Earth appeared in Solar system. If the gravity on the African continent would be kept, till now kinds mega faunae and mega florae has not changed. Changes, which have proceeded on a planet in time II, III, IV stages practically had by abstract character for flora and faunae on African continent - for the reason, that this continent is in a zone min linear displacement (h1). The model of globe World Ocean Floor Map allows receiving the answer, whether the antipode to the African continent during III stage in a zone of linear displacement Ms (h5) was. However it is necessary to note, that present desert Sahara at presence of ice domes, during III stage it has been covered with woods and channels of the rivers which are now looked through, have been filled with water, one of riddles - why on the African continent the civilization which in time I a stage supported functioning Эко of the conveyor in planetary scale, was not kept, cannot explain even Both models of the globe. So, inhabitants of a planet are floating, at boundless Ocean of Time continuing to ignore real events of the past, and creating absurd scripts of the future. Reconstruction in a context with a site www.mammoths.narod.ru Kherson 2012 Savvov
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted December 7, 2012 Author Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) COFU. . I am finding it very hard to read and understand your post. I think it is because of some form of translation system is making the translation not obvious. . Could you possibly abbreviate your points to say 6 short paragraphs. ? . Then when I have got the point, I can have a go at reading the long script. Edited December 7, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos
Ophiolite Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 Mike, I think you can save yourself the effort. The words that may have confused you are, I think, really there. when the Earth was in other Galaxy; stages II, III, IV - when the Earth casually appeared in Solar system The post appears to be from a gentleman with a very peculiar understanding of geology. I recommend leaving well alone.
Essay Posted December 10, 2012 Posted December 10, 2012 If we look through the Geological history from the supercontinent of Rodinia, through the Supercontinent of Pangaea, on to the Next future supercontinent it is studded with change. Things had to change to adapt to new conditions. Humanity must change radically, an PDQ if it is to adapt and survive. Why do we not hear this on the news , night after night , why are not all the other equivalent symptoms of the 60's and 70's not bubbling up. Perhaps we have all gone to sleep. And if you look closely at that geological history, you can discern a trend or direction of change that almost seems like an intention (Gaiaintention). ...And, in addition to adapting more quickly, we could also try to slow the rate of change back to geologic-time scales, at least for global biosphere forcers. Learning different perspectives on history is what woke me up to these looming plights. History, including geological history, might serve to replace many of the "focusing functions" that religion used to provide in our societies. Instead of geoengineering, we need... Gaiaengineering = new jobs and careers to help build a new economy. ~
cofu Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 ОбычныйIf various OLOGIES are looking out for various aspects of world systems. EG Geology looking at the structure of the earth and its long history; Geography looking at the surface systems, Biology looking out for living things, etc etc Who specifically has the discipline that looks out for not just climate, but the whole shebang! Ocean, air, rocks, life, climate, minerals, sea and all the interlinking systems that keep the Earth as a working system. Is there a degree course with ensuing professors who make it their business to get a handle on the WHOLE EARTH SYSTEM/SYSTEMS / to Ophiolite - the Earth really casually appeared in Solar system, for this purpose it is not necessary be the scientist enough to familiarize with characteristics of planets of Solar system. The science Geology - in itself cannot particularly explain anything, why there were the hills, separate mountain tops why the level of Ocean repeatedly changed, during III stage. With the past of a planet the Past of a planet are borrowed a lot of scientific in the various countries, the past of a planet is a destiny of old scientists, to criticize their work is a waste of time because huge work (old scientists) is fragmentary executed, Dynamic and Static models of the globe using information blocks, traces of the natural phenomenon III of type, have proved chronology of changes on a planet as a whole and on continents in particular - accordingly stages. It is natural to criticize a theme “ Dynamic model of the globe ” any Academy of sciences, neither scientifically research institutes, nor forums, educational institutions has not risked - which is direct or are indirectly borrowed with questions of the past on a planet and questions of a structure and physical properties of a planet. These organizations have decided, that "DM" simply is not present, but on a site www.maps.com It is distinctly visible, that in recent times the level of Ocean was on (~ 400 м) below and consequently the weight of ice domes changed in limits which are simple for defining, it is elementary possible to execute as really changed a configuration of continents and oceans, a condition of ground in the Scandinavian countries (practically absence гумуса), allows to define really when ice domes have thawn - but it at all does not interest old scientists. Mike Smith Cosmos - has expressed desire to familiarize with science which considers as a whole Earth System / Systems - please, criticize not in general, and it is concrete.
Ophiolite Posted December 12, 2012 Posted December 12, 2012 cofu, I think you are using a translation program. This makes your writing difficult to understand. Do you really mean that you believe the Earth "casually appeared in Solar system"? Верите ли вы, что Земля формируется где-то в другом месте, затем переехал в Солнечной системе?
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted December 14, 2012 Author Posted December 14, 2012 CoFU Your Language is getting marginally better for me to understand what you are saying. Perhaps we could take one important point at a time ! so What is your Main Point ?
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted January 4, 2013 Author Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) CoFU Your Language is getting marginally better for me to understand what you are saying. Perhaps we could take one important point at a time ! so What is your Main Point ? I have been back and had a look . This is what I saw Artist Impression Edited January 4, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted March 15, 2013 Author Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) I have been back and had a look . This is what I saw Artist Impression DSCF0034.JPG And still they Come ! Edited March 15, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos
OSHMUNNIES Posted May 29, 2013 Posted May 29, 2013 If various OLOGIES are looking out for various aspects of world systems. EG Geology looking at the structure of the earth and its long history; Geography looking at the surface systems, Biology looking out for living things, etc etc Who specifically has the discipline that looks out for not just climate, but the whole shebang ! Ocean, air, rocks, life , climate, minerals , sea and all the interlinking systems that keep the Earth as a working system. Is there a degree course with ensuing professors who make it their business to get a handle on the WHOLE EARTH SYSTEM/SYSTEMS ? I'll be honest, I only skimmed most of the above posts. It seems that the general takeaway message from most of the other comments, however, is that they are trying to convince Mike that no one field of study (currently) can encompass every complex system present on the Earth. Mike seems to understand this perfectly fine, however. If I may, Mike...I think that you're driving at the concept of the future of integrated Earth Systems Science (all sciences, effectively). Although no single human is capable of fully conceptualizing the interconnectedness of all Earthly processes, we do have computers, and more specifically, computer models that are becoming more advanced every year. Models that simulate climatic, geochemical, geomechanical, geothermal, biological, sociological (the list goes on) processes are continuously upgraded to incorporate more data and perform more calculations faster. Currently, models such as these are conducted in sub-disciplinary contexts, but many modeling programs can already combine multiple principles and give cross-disciplinary results. A good example are simulators that predict mineral precipitation in groundwater systems under various hydrothermal conditions = chemistry + physics + geology Integrating all of these systems and processes mathematically is no small feat, but the collaborative scientific community is gradually approaching a point at which comprehensive models accurately (depending on your definition of accurate) represent and simulate the entire Earth system. This could take decades or centuries, but it gives us something to do in the meantime, doesn't it? : )
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