Linear momentum not conserved, an example

[Semjase]

The example shown below clearly shows that linear momentum is not

conserved here.

 

Here's something special

 

http://semjase.net/indexsemjase3.html

[Bignose]

Really? The evidence against one of the most verified law of physics ever is based on supposed extraterrestrial contacts?

 

If the experiment can't be repeated, it is suspect at best. Certainly nothing I'd consider enough to overthrow an exceptionally well verified law.

[Semjase]

The extensive UFO evidence proves that linear momentum is not conserved, since about

all UFO sighting indicate that there is no emitting of radiation or gases that would sustain

such lift and discrediting all UFO sighting would be virtually impossible.

 

If the theoretical analysis of the experiment predicts that linear momentum is not

conserved then it would be worth while to conduct the experiment.

I challenge anyone to prove theoretically that linear momentum is conserved

in this experiment. This experiment will also work in a gravitational

environment if laid horizontally.

[ajb]

The extensive UFO evidence proves that linear momentum is not conserved...

 

I think that would only imply that there are external forces to take into account.

 

Anyway, I do not follow your example. Can you break it down further and carefully explain what you are doing?

 

I expect we don't have conservation of angular or linear momentum due to the application of torque. But then I don't quite follow your example.

[swansont]

The extensive UFO evidence

That's an oxymoronic statement. The fact that there are unidentified aspects to the observation implies that we do not have all the evidence we need to analyze the situation.

[Semjase]

I'll further explain my example by making a simple analogy, lets imagine a battle flail with

a handle that is 1 meter long connected a chain that is also 1 meter long that is connected to

a 1 kg ball, lets assume that the chain and handle are massless, the flail is laid

horizontally on a frictionless table. The chain is set at 90 degrees with respect to the

the handle and is straight. Look at the illustration as looking down on the table.

The ball is set into motion by an external force very slightly in the + y direction.

A shaft connected to the end of the handle of the flail then accelerates the ball in

a perfect 90 degree arc, this is possible by maintaining a tension on the chain

while accelerationg the handle that results in a vector force to offsets the centrifugal force by 100%.

If the initial velocity ball is zero in the x direction and after 90 degree acceleration has

a velocity of q in the x direction and zero in the y direction then is linear momentum is

q kg m/s. The key to this whole example is the force acting on the chain at the end of the

then handle, due to conservation of energy the force at the end of the handle has to

be 1.414 times the force accelerating the ball along the perfect arc. Since the handle

it's self is moving in arc from 45 degrees to 135 degrees, the resultant force of the

the handle on the shaft in the - x direction will cause a greater increase or loss

in linear momentum in the mass supporting the table than the net net linear

momentum gained or lost by the ball.

[swansont]

It's very easy to set up a description of a problem that violates the laws of physics, but in reality the setup is unphysical. You have to show where you are getting your numbers, because a ball moving in a circle does not violate conservation of momentum — there is a force acting on it.

[Bignose]

The extensive UFO evidence

 

The extensive Unidentified Flying Object evidence... LOL. I know I haven't been a member as long as some of you guys, but this is a new one to me.

 

Though, allowing unidentified evidence to count could just blow the doors wide open in science

[Semjase]

As far as UFO evidence is concerned, there is extensive photographic evidence of unknown flying objects disobeying current physics laws, that have stood up

to scientific scrutiny as far as authenticity is concerned and reliable eye witness testimonies from many people confirm this photographic evidence.

Science can't just close the door on this phenomena.

 

A ball accelerated 90 degrees in a circular path obeys the law of conservation of linear momentum when the the centrifugal force is offset

by a string connecting the ball to the stationary origin and the acceleration of the ball is acted on by a force perpendicular to

the string. When the ball is accelerated in the same circular pathway to the same velocity by the flail arrangement

the acceleration and centrifugal force is a result of a chord connected to the ball and to the end of the handle of the flail. Due to the

geometric arrangement of the chord and the handle, as shown in the illustration, is not linear momentum

is not conserved.

 

To understand this you have to realize that the end of the handle where the chord is connected

is responsible for accelerating the ball.The length of the pathway of the end of the handle is .707*(the length of the pathway of

the ball), and due to conservation of energy the accelerating force at the end of the handle is 1.414*(accelerating

force on the ball). Since the accelerating force on the end of the handle acts for the same time as on the ball,

the (force time) acting on the the end of the handle in the +x direction is greater than the linear momentum of

the ball when it's reached the final velocity in the -x direction.

[Ophiolite]

As far as UFO evidence is concerned, there is extensive photographic evidence of unknown flying objects disobeying current physics laws, that have stood up

to scientific scrutiny as far as authenticity is concerned and reliable eye witness testimonies from many people confirm this photographic evidence.

Science can't just close the door on this phenomena.

1. Please provide citations of peer reviewed research that confirms that there is "extensive photographic evidence of unknown flying objects disobeying current physics laws".

2. Please explain why you believe any eye witness testimony is reliable. Again, citations to peer reviewed research demonstrating the value of any eye witness testimony would be appreciated.

[swansont]

To understand this you have to realize that the end of the handle where the chord is connected

is responsible for accelerating the ball.The length of the pathway of the end of the handle is .707*(the length of the pathway of

the ball), and due to conservation of energy the accelerating force at the end of the handle is 1.414*(accelerating

force on the ball). Since the accelerating force on the end of the handle acts for the same time as on the ball,

the (force time) acting on the the end of the handle in the +x direction is greater than the linear momentum of

the ball when it's reached the final velocity in the -x direction.

Merely stating this is not sufficient. A statement is not limited by physical law. An example: "I accelerate the ball to a speed twice that of light." See? I can make the statement, but that doesn't mean it happens in reality.

[Semjase]

When it comes to UFO's this evidence speaks for its self, debunk it!

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

 

 

[Phi for All]

It always amazes me why a) these types of photographs are always so blurry and grainy, b) none of the camera operators are freaking out that this is happening (even if I was alone I'd be giving a running monologue about what was happening), and c) so many people believe these are aliens that no one can contact.

[Semjase]

They only seem to choose select people,

here's some contact information

from one of these people.

 

http://www.semjase.net/semjeng4.html

 

http://www.semjase.net/semjeng5.html

 

http://www.semjase.net/semjeng9.html

[ajb]

Hang on, we may have first contact here. Semjase looks like a fabled Nordic.

 

On behalf of the scientific community of Earth I welcome you.

[Bignose]

When it comes to UFO's this evidence speaks for its self, debunk it!

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

 

 

Here is a photograph of the invisible dinosaur that lives in my garage, debunk it!

[Phi for All]

 

Here is a photograph of the invisible dinosaur that lives in my garage, debunk it!

I don't know about the dinosaur part, but the fact that it looks like a two-car garage you could actually park two cars in PROVES it's not really a garage at all.

 

The lack of oil stains where engines would be doesn't help your case much either. It does support the idea that this is indeed an invisible dinosaur enclosure though.

[Semjase]

I rest my case on these crop circle videos.

 

 

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/science/weird-science-sci/uk_cropcircles/

 

[John Cuthber]

I also rest my case on crop circles.

[Bignose]

I rest my case on these crop circle videos.

 

Scruffy is upset with you. He really wanted to know how you planned to debunk him.

[Semjase]

A dinosaur in the garage is a way out hypothetical without evidence you couldn't accept it,

if it's theoretical possibility you couldn't rule it out. It's not a fair comparison to

UFO phenomena .

[Unity+]

I find it funny how people can fall for such alien "evidence". I remember one article about how a man was able to deceive these group of people to form a cult and commit suicide by just putting a trash can lid in front of a camera, photo-shopped it, and claimed he had evidence of extra-terrestrial.

 

Seriously, if the government was hiding aliens from us, they would be proven to exist already. Unless you are implying that these "aliens" are invisible because we are brainwashed. I mean, it would be quite nice if there were aliens, but from evidence today there is no likely hood that we will see them any time soon.

 

 

[Semjase]

I think it's time for our civilization to grow up and face the

reality that they may be other advanced civilizations

in this universe.You sound you come from the pages of

Project Blue Book, the days of UFO hysteria are a thing of

the past.

[John Cuthber]

Semjase, I think you meant to say

"A dinosaur UFO in the garage is a way out hypothetical without evidence you couldn't accept it,

if it's theoretical possibility you couldn't rule it out. It's not a fair comparison to UFO dinosaur phenomena "

 

unless can show me the fossils of UFOs.

 

 

As for "I think it's time for our civilization to grow up and face the reality that they may be other advanced civilizations in this universe.".

I already accept it. There's no sensible denial that there may be other intelligent life in the universe, I also believe that it's quite likely.

However what seems unrealistic is that they always turn up in some deserted field and draw patterns then nip round to some poor old sod and play with their rectal probes.

FFS, if they can cross interstellar space you would think they can turn up stealthily if they wanted to or, if they wanted to announce their presence, all they need is a decent radio transmitter.

 

In any event, none of this has anything to do with the title of the thread.

You have not cited an example of linear momentum not being conserved.

If you can do that please do so, otherwise drop the subject and stop wasting the site's bandwidth.

Edited November 4, 2012 by John Cuthber

[ajb]

I think it's time for our civilization to grow up and face the

reality that they may be other advanced civilizations

in this universe.

 

Lot of people, including scientists do face this reality. Many scientists do think that the chance of life evolving elsewhere is good and that intelligent could indeed be out there. My own opinion is that it is indeed likely.

 

This is completely independent of the UFO phenomena. I expect there to be life elsewhere in the Universe, probably even civilizations, but what I am very sceptical of is the evidence that they have visited.