Bullies

[psi20]

I'm guessing there is something in psychology relating to a variety of aggressive behaviors that people show, some more than others. And I'm also guessing there's more than one kind of bully. I know some general reasons why people bully others, but I want to know about this kind of bully in particular.

I try to grab a rubber band on the floor and this guy slides down and grabs my wrist. He vehemently tries to pry my hand open, but I put it in my other hand. Then he starts twisting my hand, or at least the sleeve of the wrist I was wearing. Then he aims a rubber band gun at my face and threatens to shoot me. He then threatens to slap me if I don't give the rubber band to him. I decide to give it back to him as to not cause trouble. He then starts to act nice, saying he didn't mean any of it. Then he tries to befriend me by flattering me.

Some other things about him is that he tries to be the center of attention, pushes people when they're in his way, and tries to be nice to the teacher. According to the way he tried to befriend me, it also appears that he believes I can easily be taken advantage of.

Now, I don't want to just acquiesce next time. But I'll need to know where to hit him hard, not physically but mentally. What are the psychological characteristics of this kind of bully? What kind of mental games can I play with him? What do I say to make him cry? I know it's ironic, but I want my revenge! >:}

[iglak]

fear.

it's always fear with bullies.

and it's almost always a fear of losing social power, especially in school.

they are usually also spoiled.

[edit] there really isn't another kind of bully, just degrees of fear, and some may be afraid of something other than social status, but very few. [/edit]

 

the only thing i can think of to get him back would be to NOT give the rubber band back, and tell him you won't specifically because he is trying to bully you. and don't let him grab your arm, you have to be fast enough that he won't succeed in bullying you. and the biggest tip i can give: stay calm, and always talk to him calmly, he'll feel intimidated that way, because he isn't having an effect on you.

and if you are fast and strong enough, when he points the rubber band gun at you, you could try to yank it out of his hand. then you could take the rubber band off and give the gun back to him if you want to do something a little bully-ish.

throughout this though, stay calm, don't laugh, and don't be afraid of anything he does.

 

 

or if you want to make him cry you would have to use bullying tactics on him instead, which requires a possy of people that will laugh when you laugh for no apparent reason.

but i highly recommend you don't bully him, because that will only make him mad and more of a bully, and he may even try to hurt you (punching, or with a real weapon). also, you won't even see him cry, he'd cry when he gets home, if ever.

[coquina]

Anecdote about dealing with bullies - I believe that many of them are out-and-out cowards.

 

When I was in elementary school, for the most part the same people stayed in the same class from one year to the next. There was one extremely mean boy who had tormented the rest of the class all through school.

 

When I was in the 5th grade, the teacher had left the room for a few minutes and this kid started his antics again. He pushed me & called me a name that was extremely rude and vulgar. I had had enough of him and I hauled off and slapped his face - as hard as I could, fully expecting that he was going to come after me with his fists and I was going to have to defend myself.

 

To my amazement, he started to cry. Not sniffles, mind you, but great noisy wails of anguish. He sat down and his desk, put his head down, and was still boo-hooing when the teacher returned to the room.

 

Of course, just as every class has its bully, it also has its tattle-tail, who was waiting at the door to dramatically announce to the teacher that "there'd been a fight."

 

When the teacher demanded an explanation of me, and I told her what he had said, (which was backed up by several classmates who had heard it), I was exhonerated from wrong-doing. She told the bully to stop his sniveling, he'd gotten just what he deserved.

 

During the remaining years at school, I don't think he ever bullied anyone again, and he certainly gave me a wide berth.

 

Regretably, now in America, taking retribution of this sort would have gotten us both expelled.

[iglak]

Regretably, now in America, taking retribution of this sort would have gotten us both expelled.

yeah, force seems to be the thing that works best and fastest with them... but we can't do that.

even if it's justified.

even if it's in self defence.

even if it helps everyone, including the person you hit.

you'd likely get expelled.

[Mokele]

Regretably, now in America, taking retribution of this sort would have gotten us both expelled.

 

Not necessarily. All you need to know is how to manipulate the school administrators. With the new emphasis many schools have on "anti-bullying" stuff, if you cast yourself as the victim merely fighting back, you can often win.

 

I was never that good of an actor, but I'd say that manipulation authority figures into doing your bidding is one of the best things you can learn in school.

 

Mokele

[YT2095]

I found that Avoiding them worked Most of the time, occasionaly you get unlucky tho

 

then it`s a case of thinking of HUGE Sheets of Blank paper and hoping you`ll go invisible.

 

probably not much help at all, but I did a good 15 years of that, so if you CAN relate to that feeling, at least you`ll know you`re not alone

[MadScientist]

I'm guessing there is something in psychology relating to a variety of aggressive behaviors that people show' date=' some more than others. And I'm also guessing there's more than one kind of bully. I know some general reasons why people bully others, but I want to know about this kind of bully in particular.

I try to grab a rubber band on the floor and this guy slides down and grabs my wrist. He vehemently tries to pry my hand open, but I put it in my other hand. Then he starts twisting my hand, or at least the sleeve of the wrist I was wearing. Then he aims a rubber band gun at my face and threatens to shoot me. He then threatens to slap me if I don't give the rubber band to him. I decide to give it back to him as to not cause trouble. He then starts to act nice, saying he didn't mean any of it. Then he tries to befriend me by flattering me.

Some other things about him is that he tries to be the center of attention, pushes people when they're in his way, and tries to be nice to the teacher. According to the way he tried to befriend me, it also appears that he believes I can easily be taken advantage of.

Now, I don't want to just acquiesce next time. But I'll need to know where to hit him hard, not physically but mentally. What are the psychological characteristics of this kind of bully? What kind of mental games can I play with him? What do I say to make him cry? I know it's ironic, but I want my revenge! >:}[/quote']

 

 

We all have strategies for achieving goals. Some have more strategies than others, some have found strategies that work well and some can't find strategies that work at all.

In making this post you yourself are using one of your strategies for figuring out how to deal with this kind of bully, it's your "Asking for help" strategy, the way you asked for help is a sub strategy of that strategy. You knew that if you posted "Look you set of bastards, tell me how to deal with this bully now!!" then gone on to explain the facts in a similarly harsh fashion, nobody would have responded with anything positive, the strategy would have failed.

Sometime in your past you developed the strategy by asking for help in a clear, polite manner, you found that it worked so you stuck to it.

 

The bully you're describing has not yet figured out which strategies are the best to use to achieve some goals.

He sees a rubber band on the floor that he wants, I'm assuming that's the case because you mentioned he had a rubber band gun. So this wasn't an issue of "That guy wants that rubber band so I'll be a bastard and stop him from having it." He sees you going for it and the first strategy he tries is taking it by force, with you not being a weak person that strategy fails so he has to try another one and ask in friendly manner.

 

For some reason the world around him has told him applying force to people gets him what he wants. Either through watching his dad beat his mother so she'll cook his dinner or through beating people to get what he wants himself.

What you need to do is reprogram him.

 

When you refuse to give him the rubber band in a similarly aggressive manner to how he tried to obtain it, you had rapport with the part of him that was in control at that time, you were communicating with him on his own level.

If you'd gone to snap the rubber band saying "Agressiveness gets you nothing, if you'd asked nicely I would have probably given you the rubber band but.." then snap it.

That's a risky course of action to follow though, since he'll probably move into a more aggressive state and become violent.

 

Forget about revenge, it won't get you anything, the bully will still be a bully and he'll want revenge on you.

Get the teachers/tutors to reprogram him.

 

You need to formulate an effective strategy for programming the teachers to reprogram him in a way that won't leave you in the position of being a target for his revenge.

Make sure they know not mention your name or anything that he can connect back to you.

The best strategy I can come up with for you is to tell them to start keeping an eye on his behaviour, then they can catch him in the act and no one is grassing on anyone.

 

 

If you still want to get revenge on him you need to explain to him that he's an idiot, tell him to look around him and see how other people get things they want.

You can't do it face to face because you don't want to be beaten up.

Leave a note in his locker or somewhere he'll find it, make sure no one sees you. You might need to try a few notes - "Does your daddy beat your mummy." or "Poor little Johnny is too stupid to know how to get things he wants."

 

How about this??

Find out where he lives, write a few letters to him calling him stupid or attacking his families behaviour patterns.

In case it's not a strategy he's picked up from his parents, they might be perfectly nice people. Write a letter to his father or mother - "Your son is a bully." citing a few examples of what he's done to various people.

Be careful about how you find his address though, remember you don't want to become a target.

 

Whatever you do, don't be afraid of telling the teachers to keep an eye on him.

Bullies ruin lives, I should know because a few of them made a mess of me during my school years.

 

As for the slapping or shooting you with the rubber band gun, just stare him straight in the face and calmly ask "What will that get you??"

See, this guy's too stupid to be able to plan ahead so you've got to force him to plan ahead.

If his response is "Let's see." then he either slaps or shoots you just snap the rubber band, if he responds with yet more aggression step your response up. Tell the teacher or at least explain to him "If I tell the teacher you'll be put on detention or given some other form of punishment. What would you do then?? Beat me up?? If you did that you'd only receive an even harsher punishment. This would carry on until one of us is lying in a pool of blood, if it's me that's lying in that pool of blood it'll be you that's spending time in jail."

 

 

Hope that helps...

[coquina]

I just re-read what you wrote.

 

You said he had a rubber band gun - was it "his" rubber band that you grabbed, or were several of you having a rubber band fight?

 

I think there is a difference if you just happened to drop a rubber band on the floor and he decided he wanted it as opposed to him having the only gun and shooting at you, or several of you having guns and shooting at each other.

 

In the first case - he was certainly bullying, in the second case he saw it as "his" rubber band and wanted it back, even though he had been tormenting you with it, in the third case, "all's fair in love and war".

 

If it was case 2 and you grabbed it to stop him from shooting you again, when he grabbed your wrist you could have stepped on his arm, hard, and said "Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, when you grabbed my wrist I lost my balance." Or you could have stood up suddenly and butted him under the chin - it would have hurt your head, but it would hurt his chin worse and might have knocked his lights out. Again, you could claim it was accidental - you were losing your balance and stood to keep from falling over. In either case, he would have learned that bullying can end with painful results, and you wouldn't have gotten in trouble because it was clearly an accident on your part.

 

The fact that he was friendly after you gave him the band might indicate he is friendless but doesn't know how to appropriately interact with people. In which case, you might have positive results by starting a friendly conversation with him on the rare occasions that he is not being an a$$ and ignoring him at all other times.

[Auk]

Although people sometimes feel sympathy for the victims we must also think of the bullies . What prods them on to ruthlessly show their determination at being alpha male/female. Troubles at home can usually lead to such an attitude. Sometimes it is simply the person's choice, a decision to show his superiority.

[YT2095]

Sometimes it is simply the person's choice, a decision to show his superiority.

or in fact to HIDE their Inferiority!

[Auk]

Ya that's true. Also the bullie would never be satisfied by his continuous bullying because of the fact that he is always seeking dominance and trying to hide his inferiority.

[YT2095]

sadly the case, and having being on the receiving end of such on many occasions, you do indeed begin to see paterns and traits exhibited by these people, the Damning part for both sides is that the ones that get Bullied and can see this bhavior, are the ones that could HELP the bully to get past it, and the bully will Never listen! because it`s not congruent with the "Image" and that`s all they have at the end of the day "Image"

 

there we`re several I COULD have helped out as a kid, I even tried a few times because I though it was the "Right Thing" to do. fact is, I wasted my time, and got hurt trying to do it

[Auk]

I never really tried that against the bullies at our school. I just overcame my fear for them and hit them back until they left me alone. Isn't that all that that works when the teachers are idiots that don't care unless their sued and the bulleis don't listen. Am I a sort of temporary bully in using that tactic?

[coquina]

I know that bullies like to do their dirty work when they can catch you alone. However, I've often thought that an effective defense would have a group of people who have been bullied to get together and agree to go to the aid of one another.

 

If other people see the bullying going on and they all come to the aid of the bullee (is that a word?) he would soon learn to change his ways.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if a whole bunch of people carried a signaling device in their pockets that would send a vibrating signal to others in the group. Without any screams for help a bunch of folks suddenly come from nowhere and surround the bully, and say, "Are you quite sure you want to continue this activity?"

[Auk]

That would be sweet but you're assuming that it is just one bully. Usually it's a whole group of savages that outnumber the victim 10 to 1. Sometimes even a gang. Luckily our school is small.

[MadScientist]

That would be sweet but you're assuming that it is just one bully. Usually it's a whole group of savages that outnumber the victim 10 to 1. Sometimes even a gang. Luckily our school is small.

 

This isn't meant to be directed at Coquinas post, I realise you were talking about the show of force being enough to stop the bullies but I was thinking what happens if those retaliating escalated their behaviour against the bullies and used violence against them when they repeat offended a few days later??

 

Since these bullies are stupid enough to adopt the behaviour in the first place would they be clever enough to get the message the first time. How many times do we all have to be told to severely change our ways or else before it finally sinks in that we do have to change our ways??

 

IOWords, how easy would it be for the good kids to change into being bullies?? They wouldn't want to, just as the bullies wouldn't want to. Of those bullies there'll be a number of them who are used to be being beaten up by bigger bullies. So ganging up on them and enacting violent revenge will only serve to get those bullies to pick the retaliators off one by one in an even more violent way than before...

You'd fix some of them but probably not all of them.

 

You could try a two pronged attack and get the remaining bullies by using mental torture, find out their psychological weak spots and hit them there but that only leaves the same problem, some of those bullies will be used to that too. Then those pick off the retaliators again..

 

Now you've got to find the remaining bullies and why they're still bullies and a method of getting them to stop and if you don't get all the remaining bullies to stop you're in for a 3rd beating..

 

Then somewhere along the lines you risk the chance of ending up in a gang warfare situation. Because what happens when the bullies gang up on the retaliators and start picking them off when they're alone??

So now you've got two gangs, granted one is on the side of justice but power corrupts, how long before they start picking on others?? First they start defending the younger kids by getting the younger bullies but they'll start adopting the attitude of "Let me past you in the lunch queue because I stick up for you!!" and then that becomes "Give me your dinner money because I've forgot mine and I do stick up for you!!" and then just "Give me your dinner money!!"

 

I know that's a bleak outlook but it's a plausible one.

Wouldn't it be safer for the adults to sort them out so the kids don't even have a chance of any of that happening??

 

 

It is about time bullying was taken more seriously.

Think about this!!

If you went into a school full of kids right now and watched their behaviour, don't you think you could spot the bullies and those who were being bullied??

I'm pretty damn certain I could pick out almost all the victims and then through watching them find out who's responsible for them being victims.

So why the f#%! didn't my teachers spot that I was a victim or the other kids that would also obviously be victims to me today?? Because back then it should have been blatently obvious to those teachers who were victims, right??

The fat kids or the shy kids, you'd spot those kids in a room straight away and wonder why they were like that and think "Hey!! Fat kids get picked on and I know shy kids must feel oppressed in some way so, I wonder if they're being bullied??"

 

I'm not saying teachers are bad for not enacting on what's blatently obviously a possible problem at least, but there's obviously something wrong with that behaviour if some kids are managing to get bullied so much it's obvious they've got psychological problems or even so much some are comitting suicide.

 

I just hope some teachers read this and if they're sitting there right now thinking "Christ, I know loads of kids like that, maybe I should do more to try and find out why they're like that??" that they do decide to start taking more action.

Unless they feel comfortable sitting there letting innocent kids having their lives ruined. Those guys must have a very negative perception of the children they're teaching if they can't care that much about them to help them out.. They must think of kids as cattle that pass through their farm for a while

 

Anyway, rant over.

[YT2095]

Wouldn't it be cool if a whole bunch of people carried a signaling device in their pockets that would send a vibrating signal to others in the group. Without any screams for help a bunch of folks suddenly come from nowhere and surround the bully, and say, "Are you quite sure you want to continue this activity?"

I like the way you think! )

[MadScientist]

Wouldn't it be cool if a whole bunch of people carried a signaling device in their pockets that would send a vibrating signal to others in the group. Without any screams for help a bunch of folks suddenly come from nowhere and surround the bully' date=' and say, "Are you quite sure you want to continue this activity?"[/quote']

 

 

Okay, what happens when the bully turns to them and says "Yes, what are you going to do about it??" or "Okay I'll stop." then walk away only to pick the retaliators off one by one with his/her friends, because that's what a number of the bullies would do.

Those retaliators are going to have to try another strategy. These are kids we're talking about who don't know think about things like we do.

You'd end up with a generation coming into the world who think it's acceptable to seek revenge on anyone who's wronged them, the next time someone has an innocent accident with them some of them they'll resort to revenge because they know that strategy works in this scenarios where they've been wronged in some way.

Next time someone cuts them up as they're driving along they go into road rage mode instead of thinking "Idiots.." and leaving it at that.

 

I'm all for your strategy but only after thinking about it and refining it.

Instead of just the other kids rushing to the victims aid the teachers are involved to, let the bully know that his/her entire peer group won't tolerate his/her behaviour. The bully has to stop and think "Christ everyone hates me, I'd better change." because the other strategies they've got to fall back on are gone since they can't pick the teachers off one by one.. They have to create new strategies by looking at how their peers behave and model them.

 

Another benefit of having the teachers involved is that the other kids can't resort to violence to teach the bully a lesson.

[ydoaPs]

i went to the same school as kitty. for those that don't know, it was a VERY poor school. no, it started poor, then someone jacked it's "or" and then it became po. it was a VERY corrupt school. the pricipal choked kids. that isn't relavent, exect it tells why i wasn't expelled.

 

in 3rd grade, this kid was bulliing be and i broke his nose. no one has ever bullied me since.

[MadScientist]

i went to the same school as kitty. for those that don't know' date=' it was a VERY poor school. no, it started poor, then someone jacked it's "or" and then it became po. it was a VERY corrupt school. the pricipal choked kids. that isn't relavent, exect it tells why i wasn't expelled.

 

in 3rd grade, this kid was bulliing be and i broke his nose. no one has ever bullied me since.[/quote']

 

Would you ever want your own kids to adopt that behaviour though, Knowing that a few days later you might get a phone call saying they found your child had been in an "incident" and come the worst off??

IOWords the bully he was standing up to got some of his bully friends and ganged up on your son to put him back in his place.

[YT2095]

ya know, as Cowardly as it may sound, I still maintain that Avoidance is the best policy. that way NO ONE has to get hurt, and it`s not Inciting trouble.

 

and it DOES work most of the time, it`s not a nice way to have to survive, always wondering is "He/They" are around the next corner that you`re obliged to walk around, it really sucks! but many bullies are that brain dead and wrapped up in their own ways, that unless you accident stumble across Him/They, they most certainly will never come Looking for you!

 

not only that, but spending lunch and break time in the Computer room or the Lab or Chess club in the library, you get to meet fellow "Geeks/Nerds" that have the same problems as you do!

[MadScientist]

and it DOES work most of the time' date=' it`s not a nice way to have to survive, always wondering is "He/They" are around the next corner that you`re obliged to walk around, it really sucks! but many bullies are that brain dead and wrapped up in their own ways, that unless you accident stumble across Him/They, they most certainly will never come Looking for you!

 

not only that, but spending lunch and break time in the Computer room or the Lab or Chess club in the library, you get to meet fellow "Geeks/Nerds" that have the same problems as you do![/quote']

 

One of the main snags with this strategy is that it's too easy to carry that behavour on into adulthood, I'm 36 and until fairly recently I was still dodging those bullies...

They were no longer people who picked on me for fun but people who controlled my life in other ways.

As one example the tobacco companies didn't find it too difficult to program me into being a smoker and I picked up other similar behavour patterns that fell into negative submissive behaviour. I became an overweight, smoking robotic hermit but I woke up a few years ago and took that control back that the bullies took off me. If any of you are suffering similar symptoms I highly recommend you read some material on Neuro Linguistic Programming, it will change your life!!

 

Enough about me and my past problems though..

To deal with bullies effectively you need to change them so they're no longer bullies then everyone benefits. It's not always going to be easy, the world's spent a long time turning them into bullies but it can be done.

[YT2095]

I turned in a different way, and I`m 37.

 

NOW I have all manor of plans and backups at the ready anytime I need them, I could give a "Bully" all the 10 pences and an empty fone box with 24 hours free access. I`de need to make a single call and in 20 mins we`de out number all of them

 

I don`t live in fear as I did as a child, being a "Nerd" or "Geek" in ADULT life isn`t a problem, it`s an asset, and you get owed favours as a result of your knowledge/helpfulness. you only ever need to do this once with the right person and your backed for life, do it several times and there`s never going to be a problem

[ydoaPs]

Would you ever want your own kids to adopt that behaviour though' date=' Knowing that a few days later you might get a phone call saying they found your child had been in an "incident" and come the worst off??

IOWords the bully he was standing up to got some of his bully friends and ganged up on your son to put him back in his place.[/quote']

 

yes, i would want my kid to take that action. bullies are cowards. if he DOES get hurt, i'd get him enroled in martial arts classes.

 

anyway, standing up to a bully doesn't necessarily take violence.

[MadScientist]

yes' date=' i would want my kid to take that action. bullies are cowards. if he DOES get hurt, i'd get him enroled in martial arts classes.

 

anyway, standing up to a bully doesn't necessarily take violence.[/quote']

 

I've changed my mind and totally agree with you, instead of being soft and reporting the bullies to the adults I'd rather my kids risk becoming the target of cowardly retaliatory attacks like getting beaten half to death by the bully and his/her mates after school. Why should I care?? It's not me that'll be lying in a hospital bed and I can teach them martial arts if they ever do get stabbed anyway...

 

Wouldn't it be better to fix all the bullies so they behaved more appropriately??