Apparently, I am a "Challenged" Ballot Voter

[akh]

So, I stood in line in the rain at 6:10 this morning to make sure I could get in and out when the polls opened at 7 am. Presented my drivers license to the lady at the voting desk, they scanned it and told me I had to fill out a provisional ballot. So I go to the next desk to fill out the provisional ballet where they inform me that my United States Citizenship is in question! The guy at the provisional desk actually already had a piece of paper in front of him with my name on it, before he knew who I was, that stated my citizenship was in question.

 

Born in the USA, lived here all my life, but they don't think I am a citizen. I have never had this issue, ever!

 

The only strange thing is that my license has my correct address and the address in their system was incorrect. The incorrect address was the same address that was placed on my license as a mistake at the DMV, which I corrected over a year ago. Georgia mails out drivers licenses, so you must live at stated address to get the license. I did not get much information from the voting officials, but they did not think that the address mistake was the issue. In any case, I was told when I corrected my address at the DMV, that my voter registration information would be updated.

 

I think this is directly related to the very strict voter ID laws in Georgia. But really? I have lived in the USA all my life. I was born here! I have had a passport in my name issued in this state (Georgia). I carry insurance here, paid taxes here, got married and divorced here, and I am employed here. But Georgia does not think I am a citizen!

Edited November 6, 2012 by akh

[CaptainPanic]

Did you vote though?

[imatfaal]

AKH - what a sinking feeling in the pit of the stomach, I hope you did manage to vote and that your vote will be counted! At what point do we call shenanigans and start seriously talking about civil liberties and democracy?

[akh]

Did you vote though?

 

Yes!

 

And I had to stand over the guy as he stumbled through the process. He had know idea what he was doing, which makes me very nervous about the voting process. He had to keep calling the other official over make sure he was doing it correctly (at least he wasn't trying to hide the fact that he was clueless), but he admitted he had never actually filed one before. But, I still have to file additional paper work to prove that I am a citizen of a country that I was born in and have lived in my entire life.

 

 

[CaptainPanic]

AKH - what a sinking feeling in the pit of the stomach, I hope you did manage to vote and that your vote will be counted! At what point do we call shenanigans and start seriously talking about civil liberties and democracy?

That point was the year 2000, as far as I'm concerned. But I am not an American.

[Phi for All]

Born in the USA, lived here all my life, but they don't think I am a citizen. I have never had this issue, ever!

Can I ask you what party affiliation you registered with? It shouldn't matter, but in every case I've heard so far where the local election commission has decided to jump with both feet on the slightest anomaly the voter has been registered Democrat. And Georgia is a pretty firm red state.

[swansont]

I'm bringing two forms of government ID AND my voter registration card with me this afternoon. I had no trouble with the primary earlier this year, nor in any prior election in the 14 years I've lived in Virginia, though,so I don't expect trouble.

 

However, I won't wear an "I voted" sticker before I vote. Saving that little prank for a less-important election, just in case. I should have done it in for the primary earlier this year — one of the polling officials was engaging in some good-natured needling, so it would have been fun to joust a little.

[akh]

I

Can I ask you what party affiliation you registered with? It shouldn't matter, but in every case I've heard so far where the local election commission has decided to jump with both feet on the slightest anomaly the voter has been registered Democrat. And Georgia is a pretty firm red state.

 

If you were a betting type, where would you put your money? I run against the grain on many issues in this state.

 

I have voted in Georgia for the last three presidential election cycles, this one was the forth. I went to university here, paid in state tuition. There are multiple levels of information that identifies me as a citizen of the United States and of Georgia, yet.....

 

I am starting to fume more and more about this as the day goes on. I was in shock at first, it was a bit surreal now that a have had a few hours to think, I really am worried about the fate of this country more than ever.

 

Unfortunately, I have to work all day or I would have made a few phone calls already.

 

Another thing, I can go online, as I did weeks before to confirm my voter registration. Its there, along with information giving directions to my pollinjg location. They knew that I would show up there to vote, they had a sheet of paper, a document with my name on it already in place. But somehow I was unaware of any issue until I tried to vote (WHICH IS MY RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN!)

[iNow]

I think this is directly related to the very strict voter ID laws in Georgia.

And I think you're probably right. It's unfortunate. For all the talk about voter fraud we hear, these types of laws seem to be resulting in far more disenfranchisement than they claim to be preventing.

[Phi for All]

And I think you're probably right. It's unfortunate. For all the talk about voter fraud we hear, these types of laws seem to be resulting in far more disenfranchisement than they claim to be preventing.

It should be mandatory that if a news outlet puts out a wild story about anything, they should give an equal placement when the story is debunked. Unfortunately, that's why most of the voter fraud claims go unchallenged. Most get debunked as garbage but the retraction is never prominent enough to undo the damage done (the Missouri SecState once said 79 voters were registered at the address of a vacant lot, which later proved to be a complete lie but the meme still exists).

[akh]

I'm bringing two forms of government ID AND my voter registration card with me this afternoon. I had no trouble with the primary earlier this year, nor in any prior election in the 14 years I've lived in Virginia, though,so I don't expect trouble.

 

 

I would suggest that anybody who still needs to vote today should do just that. Although, in my case it would not have made any difference. I was still flagged in the system and they could not make a card for the electronic voting machines. I still don't understand how I can confirm my registration online, yet seperately they have me flagged as having questionable citizenship.

 

I still have concerns over the actual provisional ballot. It seems some election officials are trying to get them thrown out if there are any errors.

[Phi for All]

For all the talk about voter fraud we hear, these types of laws seem to be resulting in far more disenfranchisement than they claim to be preventing.

Sorry to harp on this bit, but iNow is supported by an unlikely, though intellectually honest, source:

 

Former John McCain 2008 presidential campaign adviser Steve Schmidt said in an interview Monday that voter fraud is not a serious problem in U.S. elections, despite conservatives' extensive talk of such a threat. "It's part of the mythology now in the Republican Party that there's widespread voter fraud all across the country. In fact, there's not," Schmidt said on MSNBC, when "Daily Rundown" host Chuck Todd asked about whether Schmidt feared the GOP is becoming the party that might be against "more possibilities to find ways to vote."

 

"Whether you're Democrat or Republican … you want everybody who's eligible to vote to vote, and that's how you want to win elections. And, so, I think that all of this stuff that has transpired over the last two years is in search of a solution to a problem—voting fraud—that doesn't really exist, when you look deeply at that question," Schmidt said.

http://www.politico....I3Y-pWo.twitter

[JohnB]

Sorry to harp on this bit, but iNow is supported by an unlikely, though intellectually honest, source:

 

http://www.politico....I3Y-pWo.twitter

 

Phi, I wouldn't be so sure. We prosecuted about 80 people at the last Federal election with some 14 million voters and the US is claiming about 90 prosecutions for 300 million votes. Either Americans are unusually and almost unbelievably honest, or someone is fudging the numbers.

[Moontanman]

I voted with no ID at all! I simply walked in stated my name and voted... Weird huh?

[akh]

Phi, I wouldn't be so sure. We prosecuted about 80 people at the last Federal election with some 14 million voters and the US is claiming about 90 prosecutions for 300 million votes.

 

I don't follow, are you making a correlation? So the experience in your country should be a direct relation to what really happens here? Of those prosecuted, how many were actually convicted? What was the offence? What was the reason/motivation behind the attempt at fraud?

 

Ever think that the more voters you have, the less likely there is to be fraud simply because it does not make sense to commit fraud when a single vote is far less likely to alter the outcome?

 

 

 

Either Americans are unusually and almost unbelievably honest, or someone is fudging the numbers.

 

Proof of either accusation? Why can it not be the opposite situation?

 

BTW, it seems my issue is directly related to the F' up at the DMV and my address. At least that is what I am being told. But, there is a high degree of vagueness as to why this called my nationality into question. The DMV issue may have been the initial flag, but there seems there is much more to this.

[iNow]

Phi, I wouldn't be so sure. We prosecuted about 80 people at the last Federal election with some 14 million voters and the US is claiming about 90 prosecutions for 300 million votes. Either Americans are unusually and almost unbelievably honest, or someone is fudging the numbers.

Unfortunately, John, even if you have a valid point, this is little more than an argument from ignorance. "I cannot personally see how the US could do so well with this issue given the struggles I see in my own country, therefore the US cannot possibly be doing that well."

 

I don't know whether you are right or wrong on this point. I'm merely saying the above argument doesn't give us anything meaningful by which to decide that.

[Phi for All]

Phi, I wouldn't be so sure. We prosecuted about 80 people at the last Federal election with some 14 million voters and the US is claiming about 90 prosecutions for 300 million votes. Either Americans are unusually and almost unbelievably honest, or someone is fudging the numbers.

My objection to our response to voter fraud is more practical. Even if you assume our real numbers are a whole order of magnitude greater, the Republican measures in the states that adopted the voter ID laws were vastly out of proportion with a problem that happens .000003% percent of the time.

 

That's usually my first clue that there's a realer reason for those actions.

[akh]

Another update.

 

The list of acceptable forms that verify my nationality is long, but very short on actual options for me. The only two options that could apply are Birth Certificate, US passport, or Insurance document created 5 years prior to application that shows nationality. Well, I don't currently have a passport. I did not have any insurance other than car insurance 5 years ago, as I could not afford it. Which leaves me with birth certificate, which is retained in Florida, my place of birth. I can get the document to the Georgia Board of Registrations and Elections in the allowed three day time period via electronic transmission. But it costs money, of course and I must have some way to create and send the file with a copy of my drivers license (Really? So I can use my drivers license to get my birth certificate to prove my nationality and citizenship, yet my drivers license itself was not enough to allow me to vote). I don't have a scanner, so that means I have to pay at Office Depot or what ever or wait till I get to work to use their scanner.

 

All this because of laws passed to combat nearly non-existent voter fraud? I never in my wildest imagination would have thought this would be happening to me. But it is...feels like shit to be one of the disenfranchised. Feels like shit to have your own country, your place of birth, deny you one of your basic rights as a citizen for what amounts to as no clear reason what so ever.

[Moontanman]

akh, I hesitate to ask but are you of a minority race? Most of the people challenged, at least according to media sources, are somewhat less than lilly white... I know several black people who claim that voter intimidation was once pretty much routine... The tea party, claims their current effort has nothing to do with race but I have my doubts about the veracity of that...

[imatfaal]

Another update.

.../snipped

 

What a rigmarole - but don't let the bastards win, you gotta play them at their game and beat them. If a measurable proportion of challenged voters just cannot be bothered to fight it will be proof to the anti-democratic elements that such underhand tactics work

[akh]

akh, I hesitate to ask but are you of a minority race? Most of the people challenged, at least according to media sources, are somewhat less than lilly white... I know several black people who claim that voter intimidation was once pretty much routine... The tea party, claims their current effort has nothing to do with race but I have my doubts about the veracity of that...

 

Caucasian by all accounts, but not lily white. Middle and last name are Armenian. Two other voters that appeared at the provisional desk before I left were black and asian... no joke. Asian guy was super mad, but I didn't listen in on his issue because i did not feel it was my business. Huge voting issues in the neighboring county. Multiple voters who had registered did not show up in the rolls.

[Moontanman]

Caucasian by all accounts, but not lily white. Middle and last name are Armenian. Two other voters that appeared at the provisional desk before I left were black and asian... no joke. Asian guy was super mad, but I didn't listen in on his issue because i did not feel it was my business. Huge voting issues in the neighboring county. Multiple voters who had registered did not show up in the rolls.

 

 

That's really interesting, i wonder if you were targeted due to your last name. My last name is apparently completely made up (as far as I know it is attached to no nationality and rather rare) and all I had to do is walk in and give my name and address and I didn't even give my real address... I gave my last address since i hadn't changed my address since I moved last.

 

Somehow this stuff shouldn't be left up to the state, obviously there should be some standardization...

 

Oh no I am a voter fraud...

[JohnB]

Well that touched a nerve, I wonder why?

 

Rather than a correlation, I based my comment on a lack of correlation. Those putting forward the idea of this extremely low rate have to explain why it is an outlier. Your argument is essentially that Americans will defraud, steal, rape, murder and assault at similar rates to the rest of the First world but won't cheat on elections. I'd like some sort of explanation as to why this is. If out of 50 States you had one that tracked with all the others on all figures but car theft was orders of magnitude lower, wouldn't you question as to why this is? Either there is a good and sufficient reason for the discrepancy, or the figures are suspect.

 

I perhaps should have phrased it better and more completely.

 

akh, I should have said "convicted", there were, by the report I read over 1,000 investigations. Some hundreds admitted to the fraud and were given summary fines, other cases were dismissed and others went to court.

 

As to the idea that a larger population makes it less worthwhile to cheat, this is simply wrong. The question is not how many people are in the electorate, but by how many votes is it won. That is the vital point that people forget.

 

TBH, every tme you blokes have an election I'm profoundly grateful for our Australian Electoral Commission, which is totally independent and looks after these things. They check the rolld and issue the voter cardss and they check them at the polling booth. They do everything and the only thing a political party representative is allowed to do is watch the count after polls close. You may watch, you may point out "spoiled" ballots, but your hands must never cross over the top of the table or you will be thrown out. Cheating is made harder by each party aving a scrutineer at every polling booth. 3 or 4 people around a table and the only person trusted is the AEC vote counter. It's hard to slip in some extras if you are being watched closely.

 

And I wouldn't be too concerned about the different IDs thing. Our aussie passport is viewed as the ultimate proof of identity in every nation except ours, you can't even open a bank account with only a passport for ID. But having the passport means that you can get a photo ID drivers licence and that plus the passport is fine. Government rules, not making sense since they were invented.

[iNow]

As Phi already pointed out, the larger issue is that the cure seems worse than the disease. We can let the 80 or so real frauds happen, or we can implement a policy that disenfranchises 800,000. You do the comparison. The math is not hard.

[Moontanman]

Don't worry JohnB, we have True the Vote looking out for us...