seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 I dream of one day owning an orchard like my great grandmother once did. I am completely interested in growing optimally organic and pure produce. I know the government is and has been spraying chemicals into the atmosphere, not 100% sure why, but that is beside the point, does anyone have any information about parts of the US that have not been affected by this, if any? I am trying to find locations with the cleanest soil, atmosphere and water in order to truly produce chemical free plants.
Phi for All Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Are you talking about the chemtrail conspiracy theory?
seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Well, yes. But I don't think its a conspiracy or a theory. It's just what they are doing. Spraying chemicals in the atmosphere to act as a kind of synthetic ozone to protect from radiation. Conspiracy theorists think they are trying to cause health complications among other things, but I don't know about all that. I just know its unnatural.
John Cuthber Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Why do you think " the government is and has been spraying chemicals into the atmosphere, ".
seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 You are not very helpful john cuthber. If you read my post I clearly stated it is to reflect radiation. But I am not at all even sure if that is why. m brobably in the dark as to the why, I only know they are doing it. I want to find out geographic locations that have been affected the least or possibly not affected at all. Can you help me with that? If not, a reply is of no use to me.
hypervalent_iodine Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 ! Moderator Note Chemtrails is most assuredly a conspiracy theorist hot topic. As such, I'm moving this to Speculations.
Ziven Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 The problems caused by chemical pollution in north American is much weak than in north-east Asia. However you shall mention that the lifetime of the Asians are much longer than the Americans. The evidence shows that the chemical pollutions are not too harmful for human beings' lifetime. This is the good news for modern people. However, there is a bad news for us. There are no denying facts that the fertility rate in east Asia are decreasing rapidly these years, especially for Tokyo, Soul, Shanghai and Singapore. It seems that the chemical pollution can take great effect on fertility rate. At present, the decreasing of fertility rate is a good news for those countries. Because there are so many people in East Asian. I hope the pollutions will disappear after the population decline to some extents. Then the fertility rate can re-growth again.
weiming1998 Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I dream of one day owning an orchard like my great grandmother once did. I am completely interested in growing optimally organic and pure produce. I know the government is and has been spraying chemicals into the atmosphere, not 100% sure why, but that is beside the point, does anyone have any information about parts of the US that have not been affected by this, if any? I am trying to find locations with the cleanest soil, atmosphere and water in order to truly produce chemical free plants. "Chemical free plants"? Don't bother, you're never going grow one. Edited November 7, 2012 by weiming1998 1
seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 "Chemical free plants"? Don't bother, you're never going grow one. Why do u say that?
Phi for All Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Well, yes. But I don't think its a conspiracy or a theory. It's just what they are doing. Spraying chemicals in the atmosphere to act as a kind of synthetic ozone to protect from radiation. Conspiracy theorists think they are trying to cause health complications among other things, but I don't know about all that. I just know its unnatural. Ask yourself this, please. Why would anyone want to cause health problems on that kind of scale, in a manner that would seem to affect every living thing on the planet? I have to say, it's easy to think in terms of organic = natural, but the fact is that organic farming isn't as sustainable as you seem to think. There's no way we could feed everyone on the planet if all farming were done organically. And while some types of chemicals may be more harmful than others when used in modern agriculture, to say that all chemicals are unnatural is ludicrous. It's also ludicrous to assume that all organic methods are non-harmful. Rotenone, nicotine, pyrethrum and neem are all considered OK for organic gardening, and they're worse than most other pesticides modern farmers use (rotenone is six times more toxic than carbaryl, a synthetic product used for the same things). The fact that they break down quickly (always considered a plus by organic supporters) means they are more of a danger to life in the immediate vicinity when and where they're used. I've bought lots of organic food in my time, but the more I learn, the more I realize that the assumption that it's always better is not true. Why do u say that? Because chemicals make up everything.
seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Ask yourself this, please. Why would anyone want to cause health problems on that kind of scale, in a manner that would seem to affect every living thing on the planet? I have to say, it's easy to think in terms of organic = natural, but the fact is that organic farming isn't as sustainable as you seem to think. There's no way we could feed everyone on the planet if all farming were done organically. And while some types of chemicals may be more harmful than others when used in modern agriculture, to say that all chemicals are unnatural is ludicrous. It's also ludicrous to assume that all organic methods are non-harmful. Rotenone, nicotine, pyrethrum and neem are all considered OK for organic gardening, and they're worse than most other pesticides modern farmers use (rotenone is six times more toxic than carbaryl, a synthetic product used for the same things). The fact that they break down quickly (always considered a plus by organic supporters) means they are more of a danger to life in the immediate vicinity when and where they're used. I've bought lots of organic food in my time, but the more I learn, the more I realize that the assumption that it's always better is not true. Because chemicals make up everything. Organic farming is unsustainable? So our ancestors used harmful pesticides and genetically engineered their crops, right? How could people ever have survived without that shit, right?
uncool Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Organic farming is unsustainable? So our ancestors used harmful pesticides and genetically engineered their crops, right? How could people ever have survived without that shit, right? Our ancestors also didn't have 7 billion people to feed. Check Phi's post - "There's no way we could feed everyone on the planet if all farming were done organically." That's the objection that was made. =Uncool- 2
Moontanman Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Organic farming is unsustainable? So our ancestors used harmful pesticides No, they starved or flourished depending on the vagrancies of the pest population vs the number of people willing to work for nothing (slaves or serfs). and genetically engineered their crops, right? How could people ever have survived without that shit, right? They actually did genetically engineer their crops through artificial selection, a slow process when you are starving... Organic farming is a scam, the word organic has become meaningless, dog shit is organic, want to eat some? Ever actually try to grow something, like say tomatoes with out any pesticide? One night and caterpillars can eliminate your entire plot. I grew up on a farm where pesticides were used very sparingly, not because of any ill effect but because they cost money, fertilizer other than animal dung was out of the question. It was hard work and difficult to grow as much as needed to feed your self much less others. As for pesticides some of the worst poisons are 100% organic, don't believe me? Eat a pack of cigarettes... All life is made of chemicals, if you are going to argue a point make sure you know how sharp it is... 2
seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Ok ill go eat a pack of cigarettes and some dog shit. Thank you for the advice. Our ancestors also didn't have 7 billion people to feed. Check Phi's post - "There's no way we could feed everyone on the planet if all farming were done organically." That's the objection that was made. =Uncool- There is plenty of unused land And mental capability to solve that problem naturally. And plenty of people who could produce crops, instead of working for Wal-Mart or McDonalds. This has gone far off point of my original question. I asked if anyone knows of land in the US that has been the least affected by chemtrails. If u do not believe in chemtrails, or believe that the way we are doing things now is the only way to do it you need not reply.
Moontanman Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Ok ill go eat a pack of cigarettes and some dog shit. Thank you for the advice. Please do and report back, if you want to live I suggest the dog shit... There is plenty of unused land And mental capability to solve that problem naturally. And plenty of people who could produce crops, instead of working for Wal-Mart or McDonalds. That is disgustingly elitist... This has gone far off point of my original question. I asked if anyone knows of land in the US that has been the least affected by chemtrails. If u do not believe in chemtrails, or believe that the way we are doing things now is the only way to do it you need not reply. One more time seaker, you started this discussion with a totally unsupportable premise, you support the idea of chemtrails with something other than nutter horse feathers and I'll take you seriously... BTW, since things like pesticides have been found even in remote places like Greenland and Antarctica I doubt you will ever find what you seek on this planet... And obviously the way things are being done now is not the only way and pesticides that concentrate in our food supply have to be limited and they are being limited but the whole chemtrails thing is just nuts... The best home made organic pesticide i have used is water that has been soaked in tobacco... The most supportable part of the whole "organic" movement is stopping the use of hormones and antibiotics in meat production, that I can get behind, chemtrails not so much...
imatfaal Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 seaker Just a quick note to clarify matters; anyone can reply or take part in this thread whether they agree with your premises or not. This is a discussion forum and no one gets to limit the participation of posters and without a wide range of opinions any debate is pretty meaningless. Asking "if anyone knows of land in the US that has been the least affected by chemtrails" is a leading question - it presumes the truth of the premise that chemtrails are a documented and established reality; they are not, and many on this forum will be able to refute that premise. We have been throwing bonemeal on the land, ploughing in excrement, and using predator species for generations - it is just now we are very good and precise at doing it 1
seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 Well thank you very much. I do appreciate the polite conversation. I have all of the information I'm assuming I can get from you modern geniouses on this topic. I will abandon my plans and fall in line with the mainstream opinions.
imatfaal Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Well thank you very much. I do appreciate the polite conversation. I have all of the information I'm assuming I can get from you modern geniouses on this topic. I will abandon my plans and fall in line with the mainstream opinions. Just cos it's mainstream doesn't mean it is wrong. People don't agree with your assertions - so argue with them, bring forth facts, make predictions, use logic; but don't simply assume that we are drones who just fall in line and that debating is a lost cause, that's insulting and plainly wrong. Instinctively I know you are correct, but also I know instinctively that length contraction/time dilation is nonsense, that quantum mechanics is spooky rubbish, and that evolution just doesn't make sense; but we endeavour to move beyond our primal reactions and use reason and logic to understand, mold, and develop the world around us. Relativity is sound, quantum mechanics is incredibly well documented, evolution is as good as a scientific theory get - all counter-intuitive and yet all correct. The fact that your ideas feel right and are intuitively plausible does not give them any scientific credibilty. Most of the opinions you find here are not the result of laziness, of easy acceptance, or of toeing the line; they are formed through reading, learning and research. Do us the honour of arguing, or admitting defeat, but don't fall in line or imply that we do. 1
Moontanman Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Well thank you very much. I do appreciate the polite conversation. I have all of the information I'm assuming I can get from you modern geniouses on this topic. I will abandon my plans and fall in line with the mainstream opinions. That is sad, if you really have credible evidence that the government is spraying us all with some unknown and less than benign chemicals then stand your ground. No one here is omniscient, I support wholeheartedly the limiting of persistent toxic chemicals in the environment. I live near the ocean and love to eat seafood, it is very important that we as a species limit the use of persistent toxins in the environment. As a top level predator these chemicals naturally concentrate in us... these chemicals can be seen very prominently in sea food since everything eventually ends up in the oceans. The whole idea that we are not doing anything to stop this problem or that we are intentionally using chemicals that persist just because it's easier ignores a great many strides in limiting environmental poisons. I am old enough to remember rivers catching on fire and fish kills being the norm. i am completely willing to discuss this with you but you lost me and probably many others when you said chemtrails are real, if you really have something then stand your ground, present your evidence, but don't assume I or anyone else is going to assume chemtrails are real and ask if we know of anyplace they are not being sprayed. It's like asking if we know anyplace where invisible dragons don't roam free... 2
Phi for All Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 you modern geniouses Corollary to Skitt's Law: Sarcasm relating to someone else's intelligence will always backfire. Happens to the best of us.
seaker Posted November 7, 2012 Author Posted November 7, 2012 That is sad, if you really have credible evidence that the government is spraying us all with some unknown and less than benign chemicals then stand your ground. No one here is omniscient, I support wholeheartedly the limiting of persistent toxic chemicals in the environment. I live near the ocean and love to eat seafood, it is very important that we as a species limit the use of persistent toxins in the environment. As a top level predator these chemicals naturally concentrate in us... these chemicals can be seen very prominently in sea food since everything eventually ends up in the oceans. The whole idea that we are not doing anything to stop this problem or that we are intentionally using chemicals that persist just because it's easier ignores a great many strides in limiting environmental poisons. I am old enough to remember rivers catching on fire and fish kills being the norm. i am completely willing to discuss this with you but you lost me and probably many others when you said chemtrails are real, if you really have something then stand your ground, present your evidence, but don't assume I or anyone else is going to assume chemtrails are real and ask if we know of anyplace they are not being sprayed. It's like asking if we know anyplace where invisible dragons don't roam free... Have you heard of Edward teller? No dragons, just facts. Do research before you buy into the government and media. I'm done here
Moontanman Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Have you heard of Edward teller? No dragons, just facts. Do research before you buy into the government and media. I'm done here Don't forget to take your tin foil hat with you when you go...
Phi for All Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 Do research before you buy into the government and media. In other words, read the same pop culture, paranoid, fringe-appeal, time-wasting novelties you're reading? The ones that have references to other pop culture, paranoid, fringe-appeal time-wasting books so you know they're true? Word of advice, if the information these books contain is treated like it's sacred, that means it can't stand up to much scrutiny. Do better research before you buy into them. 1
A Tripolation Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 I am trying to find locations with the cleanest soil, atmosphere and water in order to truly produce chemical free plants. Give up now. You clearly know nothing about farming if you think you want overly clean soil and water. Plants thrive on that "pollution" stuff like potassium and nitrate. Also good to see that no one here is really supporting organic crops as a superior alternative to conventional farming. 2
Ziven Posted November 8, 2012 Posted November 8, 2012 (edited) Of cause chemtrails is only speculated by someone. However, I think seaker's mind is very simple. She just wants to find a place without pollution. The pollutions produced by industries are more serious than the trails of the plane. Since the industrialization is globe, we cannot find a place without pollution, even in Antarctic. Edited November 8, 2012 by Ziven
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