Texas Secession - A Unique Card to Play

[swansont]

I am not obligated to you and the whims of your dumb little nation group because I was born "nearby", or inside some wild imaginary perimeter of land you over-claimed for yourselves. I am a person. Not a widget.

That's an interesting perspective, and conundrum. You could "vote with your feet", as they say, but moving to some destination carries with it an implied (or explicit) consent to follow the government's rules, otherwise you would not have moved there. Only by staying within a system with which you are not satisfied can you adopt a position that the government isn't the boss of you. Immigrants being granted citizenship have to swear an oath to support and defend the constitution of the US, among other things, but the average citizen* by birth does not.

 

*military and civilian government employees swear an oath of office

[iNow]

I am not obligated to you and the whims of your dumb little nation group because I was born "nearby", or inside some wild imaginary perimeter of land you over-claimed for yourselves.

Like the earth itself?

[ParanoiA]

That's an interesting perspective, and conundrum. You could "vote with your feet", as they say, but moving to some destination carries with it an implied (or explicit) consent to follow the government's rules, otherwise you would not have moved there. Only by staying within a system with which you are not satisfied can you adopt a position that the government isn't the boss of you. Immigrants being granted citizenship have to swear an oath to support and defend the constitution of the US, among other things, but the average citizen* by birth does not.

 

*military and civilian government employees swear an oath of office

 

Yeah, that "vote with your feet" bit is real cute when you've taken more land than you can use and occupy. That's why I keep bringing it up. We have a choice like we have a choice for presidents....as in, not really. I don't vote *for* living in any nation on the freaking planet - but I don't get that choice now do I? It's all been taken by other control freaks. Then pretend like it's a "choice" to choose which cobble of assholes you want to be subjected to.

 

No, that's a set up, not a choice. We're well aware of how the deck is stacked. Controlling humans dominate everywhere. We know. The only reason I'm even against terrorism is the targets they typically choose.

 

Like the earth itself?

 

The earth is a nation group?

[akh]

The only reason I'm even against terrorism is the targets they typically choose.

 

 

Care to explain that? Which group(s) of innocent people would you like to see die?

 

As far as individual freedom, I know some say they would prefer utter anarchy, but I don't think they really know what they are asking for. Why would Texas have any less control of an idividual? Seems to me the conservatives, by definition, would ply more control.

Edited November 20, 2012 by akh

[john5746]

...

 

No, that's a set up, not a choice. We're well aware of how the deck is stacked. Controlling humans dominate everywhere. We know. The only reason I'm even against terrorism is the targets they typically choose.

 

...

 

You say you want a revolution

Well, you know

We all want to change the world

But when you talk about destruction

Don't you know that you can count me out

 

 

...

As far as individual freedom, I know some say they would prefer utter anarchy, but I don't think they really know what they are asking for. Why would Texas have any less control of an idividual? Seems to me the conservatives, by definition, would ply more control.

 

Yeah, they love to say, "if you don't like it, leave". Basically, you would have 50 places where you could self-deport to.

 

This libertarian dream stuff is just the other end of the coin from the communist crap from years ago. Utopia, where everyone can live in their own bubble without any compromise. Sounds great, it just happens to be impossible and it really isn't that great. Far better for people to learn to live in a culture of diversity, then to setup bubbles of segregation. Personal liberty and social welfare are not mutually exclusive. Reaching the optimum does require concessions from each, imo, but I think it is more of a balance, not either/or

Edited November 21, 2012 by john5746

[ParanoiA]

Care to explain that? Which group(s) of innocent people would you like to see die?

 

 

Sure. Anyone who dreams up ways to increase their liberty at the expense of mine, or to trim my liberties to make society for palatable for their dumb culture they think is so important and "special". I would like all of them to suffer greatly, as they have caused countless others.

 

As far as individual freedom, I know some say they would prefer utter anarchy, but I don't think they really know what they are asking for. Why would Texas have any less control of an idividual? Seems to me the conservatives, by definition, would ply more control.

 

No, they don't know what they're asking for. Anarchy would promote a lot less freedom. Freedom at the expense of others would be wholesale.

 

It's always a toss up as to which sucks the most to live around: conservatives or liberals. Conservatives aren't socially open minded and free, but they are far more tolerant of contrary political ideas. Liberals will let you smoke a joint, but not without taxing the shit out of it and they are intolerant to contrary political ideas.

 

This forum is the most tolerant liberal tank I've ever contributed to. Anecdotally speaking, liberals and democrats are intolerant assholes that try to shut down anyone's contrary view - uber quick with the shutdown cards, racism, sexism, bigotry, no matter what is being said and who is saying it. I've been completely shocked over the last few years to find I have a better relationship, and fulfilling dialogue with people described as intolerant bigots.

 

You say you want a revolution

Well, you know

We all want to change the world

But when you talk about destruction

Don't you know that you can count me out

 

Oh come on that's not the lyrics John and you know it...Lennon says "Don't you know that you can count me out..in". Did you forget that "controversy"?

 

 

 

A little perspective for those of you locked in your bubble: If I decide to, say...thumb my nose at *your* ideas for *my* retirement and refuse to participate in the social security system, you will initiate force to make me implement *your* ideas for *my* retirement. Were not talking about me ignoring your laws to go rape women. No, Im talking about ignoring your laws to turn around and do nothing to anybody.

 

You will eventually send men with guns to my house to make me participate in your ideas for my retirement. Even if it means putting me in a cage you have built, you will do it.

 

Sorry, but who is acting in the extreme here? I dont put people in cages for refusing to implement my ideas for their lives. Nor do I pull guns on them and make them do things I think are best for them.

 

This is what happens when control freak federalists check control freak federalists. Youve built a cocoon of delirium that would make Fox News jealous. Seriously, that is some funny shit. Tell me more...

Edited November 21, 2012 by ParanoiA

[iNow]

Sure. Anyone who dreams up ways to increase their liberty at the expense of mine, or to trim my liberties to make society for palatable for their dumb culture they think is so important and "special". I would like all of them to suffer greatly, as they have caused countless others.

This is a very nebulous and ill defined group you've just sentenced to death, and yet you have the audacity to call others the extremists?

[ParanoiA]

This is a very nebulous and ill defined group you've just sentenced to death, and yet you have the audacity to call others the extremists?

 

Nebulous and ill defined would be fabulous clues as to why I haven't sentenced anyone to death. No one has died by my hand, or ever will. However, I have suffered at the hands of those I have described. And I won't apologize for supporting their suffering they may experience at the hands of someone else they were trying to bully. They get what they deserve.

 

My focus is on getting you creepy control freaks out of my personal space, and appealing to the general benefits of diversity and extending it to ideas rather than just skin color, sex, nationality, blah blah blah...there's more to diversity than identity politics. And like any human being I feel anger and resentment and I struggle to achieve my ends.

 

You are the extremists. Your willingness to use men with guns - to initiate the force - to micro-manage everyone's lives, most of which you have *never* met, is infinitely more extreme than my position to not force you to do anything. We're talking about retirement choices. Not pillaging neighborhoods. We're talking about health insurance, not killing puppies. You kidnap people and put them in cages that you have built...for pot - medical pot at that, not for violating any body else's rights or hurting or taking from someone else.

 

You people are nuts if you think I'm extreme for not making you do anything at all, and not doing anything to you and wishing for the same in return. Seriously...do you hear yourself?

Edited November 21, 2012 by ParanoiA

[akh]

 

You are the extremists. Your willingness to use men with guns - to initiate the force - to micro-manage everyone's lives, most of which you have *never* met, is infinitely more extreme than my position to not force you to do anything. We're talking about retirement choices. Not pillaging neighborhoods. We're talking about health insurance, not killing puppies. You kidnap people and put them in cages that you have built...for pot - medical pot at that, not for violating any body else's rights or hurting or taking from someone else.

 

You people are nuts if you think I'm extreme for not making you do anything at all, and not doing anything to you and wishing for the same in return. Seriously...do you hear yourself?

 

I honestly don't think you understand the position(s) of many of the core members of this forum. The exact issues you address are some of the very same that upsets many here. I will not speak for others, but I for one have always had issues with the imprisonment of drug offenders. I have no desire to take things form others by force. I own not a single firearm.

 

But when you make statements that you would support terrorism (or you wouldn't be against it) if certain people who you feel have done you wrong were the targets...that is about as extreme and radical as you can get. I have read some fairly inflamatory ideas and remarks on this forum. But in all honesty, this is the first time I have found them to be as frightening as yours. You say nobody will die by your hand, but your previous comments suggest that you would be fine if others did die, if it furthered your ideology. That's messed up! There are some clerics in Iran and Taliban leaders elsewhere that share your approach. They preach and applaud death to "infadels", but will claim to have no blood on their hands.

Edited November 21, 2012 by akh

[ParanoiA]

But when you make statements that you would support terrorism (or you wouldn't be against it) if certain people who you feel have done you wrong were the targets...that is about as extreme and radical as you can get. I have read some fairly inflamatory ideas and remarks on this forum. But in all honesty, this is the first time I have found them to be as frightening as yours. You say nobody will die by your hand, but your previous comments suggest that you would be fine if others did die, if it furthered your ideology. That's messed up! There are some clerics in Iran and Taliban leaders elsewhere that share your approach. They preach and applaud death to "infadels", but will claim to have no blood on their hands.

 

Not to further my ideology, that isn't personal enough. This is about personal resentment, not ideology. Because I don't actually promote ideology as much as I promote tolerance to ideology. I'm about everybody getting their way. I'm not about picking and choosing which way is correct, and then making everybody do it. I resent that.

 

Politics is not a game to me. It effects my life. The qualify of my life is greatly deteriorated by the controlling choices of my countrymen. They have set up so many rules and stuctures that anyone who thinks the least bit differently than the majority just can't freaking move. I can't do anything without bumping into some law, some bullshit screwing up my idea, trying to force me to be another sheep...an american widget.

 

I have to waste a lot of time, a lot of money, and lot of anger and resentment to live how I want. And I haven't succeeded.

 

An example I've used before is retirement. My idea of retirement is different than the mainstream. My idea of retirement is not about saving gobs and gobs of cash and hoping I don't die before I plow through it, eating up resources at break-neck speed. Rather, my idea of retirement is focusing on more self sustaining solutions, resource conservation and etc...so I don't need gobs and gobs of cash.

 

But paying into social security removes money that could have been used for solar panels. Could have been used to help build and pay for my modest ICF home, perhaps built into a hill, or bermed up nice. Could have been used to drill a well, or develop some small plot of land for agriculture, raising cows, or etc. It could have been used for more permanent, efficient retirement solutions.

 

But I don't get to do that. I have to participate in social security, divert money from solutions I find more appealing, in place of solutions that are almost antithetical to my entire beliefs. That divertion of money is very real. I feel it every paycheck. That could have been a land payment, on the way to achieving my idea of retirement.

 

I have to waste a lot of time, a lot of money, and lot of anger and resentment overcoming your ideas for my life to achieve my ideas for my life. I find that very extreme. And even moreso if you expect me to do it without being mad.