What actually came down to the Earth 4,500million years ago ?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

- We know roughly what we have today, at least in the earth crust. But in what form was the EARTH's matter at the formation of the swirling ball that became the EARTH

 

. Was it in element form, molecules, compounds, mineral, crystal, grit, dust , lump, slush, slime, ice , gas ?

 

.

[D H]

Was it in element form, molecules, compounds, mineral, crystal, grit, dust , lump, slush, slime, ice , gas ?

Yes.

 

It's not an either/or question.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Yes.

 

It's not an either/or question.

.

 

I was rather hoping for a wider picture of what happened. The question was stimulated when I was trying to find the source of the element Calcium, which was responsible for the white cliffs of Dover and all the copious other sedimentary outcrops, and strata which have Calcium as their ultimate source. I appreciate that various shell creatures etc are in the chain but I was looking for the chemical source. I have been on a hunt through the life line back via pre-cambrian and have spent the last day trying to get to grips with oxygen generation via stromatolites, as mats of bacteria. I then thought well , where did the oxygen come from ? Its unlikely it fell to earth at the start, but came through some form of oxide pre produced in outer space. So did all the elements come from molecules of various elements, like H2O or water/ice /vapour. So was calcium carbonate produced in space ? And what about all the rest ?

 

 

[iDevonian]

.

 

I was rather hoping for a wider picture of what happened. The question was stimulated when I was trying to find the source of the element Calcium, which was responsible for the white cliffs of Dover and all the copious other sedimentary outcrops, and strata which have Calcium as their ultimate source. I appreciate that various shell creatures etc are in the chain but I was looking for the chemical source. I have been on a hunt through the life line back via pre-cambrian and have spent the last day trying to get to grips with oxygen generation via stromatolites, as mats of bacteria. I then thought well , where did the oxygen come from ? Its unlikely it fell to earth at the start, but came through some form of oxide pre produced in outer space. So did all the elements come from molecules of various elements, like H2O or water/ice /vapour. So was calcium carbonate produced in space ? And what about all the rest ?

 

 

 

Id use the term "cyanobacteria" with oxygen production. Rather than stromatolites. Thats just me though. Maybe you could turn to astronomy and the formation of heavy elements within stars. Supernovas fuse basic elements to create the variety we see today. They then explode. Also, early earth was extremely hot, a molten ball of magma, so I cant imagine there was any ice on the planet during earths formation. The elements predate earth in age.

Edited November 20, 2012 by iDevonian

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Id use the term "cyanobacteria" with oxygen production. Rather than stromatolites. Thats just me though. Maybe you could turn to astronomy and the formation of heavy elements within stars. Supernovas fuse basic elements to create the variety we see today. They then explode. Also, early earth was extremely hot, a molten ball of magma, so I cant imagine there was any ice on the planet during earths formation. The elements predate earth in age.

 

Yes. Thank for your comments. I am reasonably ok. on the production of all the elements in both Sun sized stars up to the element Iron , and then from stars 10-20 times larger than the sun producing the remaining elements amongst others before and during their supernova end.

 

Its what happens next from being exploded, distributed elements in dust/gas clouds .... to .... earth mantle/core that I am at a bit of a loss. .

 

From the other direction namely plunging down through the aeons of 100's of millions of years through the various periods. I found myself wondering where all the calcium was coming from, to find itself in the white cliffs of dover, limestone, chalk etc.

 

I sot of overshot and I have been looking down around EUKARYOTES and I guess your Cyanobacteria which presumably are the slime living bacteria in mats a) producing oxygen in vast quantities to allow the rest of us to breath and b ) algae ( not quite sure what they were up to .. more photosynthesis and oxygen ??

 

I have then headed up from deep within the Pre-cambrian times groping around like some burrowing slime looking for calcium. As I approached the Pre-cambrian/cambrian boundary I had an interlude with ediacara biota.... extermination......... then BINGO ...there it was CAMBRIAN creatures busy like stink taking hold of CALCIUM by the ton . They were making themselves Backbones, shells, protective backs all from CALCIUM. With their new found protective coatings they were winning the war on everything else. We are still doing it. OOps I must take some more calcium pills. So there were all the fossils calcium shells being converted into fossils while the soft bodied Pre-cambrian life was leaving barely a message to later life like us.

 

However I still have the problem as to what the form of calcuium was, that the cambrians were eating, maybe they were eating the Pre-cambrians like ediacara biota.

 

I have the feeling that its the bacteria that absorb CaCO3 fix the carbon and give off some O.

 

 

So if that is the case how did exploding Calcium get to CaCO3 in the mantle/crust ? Presumably the Black underslime in the bacterial mats is the CARBON, the Oxygen is for animals to breath. Also shell, crusty, backboned cambrians get plenty of calcium in the pre-cambrian species that survived.

 

Perhaps you can fill in the gaps or my wrong understanding.

 

All good fuel for my paintings. I have recently painted two trilobites, an Edicara biota and the entire geological chronology from Precambrian to Quaternary, illustrated.

 

I will try to photograph and upload soon.

 

.

 

 

[Moontanman]

Mike, I am having trouble understanding what you are talking about. If this doesn't help then we need to further discuss this for sure.

 

Calcium was part of the solar nebula, a very small part to be sure but once the dust and gasses condensed into our planet calcium was present in the crust as various compounds, Calcium Chloride and Calcium Oxide was probably a large part of it, it's doubtful that pure calcium was present, calcium is a reactive element and would seldom if ever occur as a pure element, these compounds would have been combined into various rocks. Weathering by rain and exposure to CO2 caused huge amounts to dissolve in the oceans ending up as calcium carbonate. Organisms and other natural processes pulled this Calcium carbonate out of the water to be deposited as rock.

 

Is this helpful or did I get your question wrong?

[iDevonian]

Yes. Thank for your comments. I am reasonably ok. on the production of all the elements in both Sun sized stars up to the element Iron , and then from stars 10-20 times larger than the sun producing the remaining elements amongst others before and during their supernova end.

 

Its what happens next from being exploded, distributed elements in dust/gas clouds .... to .... earth mantle/core that I am at a bit of a loss. .

 

From the other direction namely plunging down through the aeons of 100's of millions of years through the various periods. I found myself wondering where all the calcium was coming from, to find itself in the white cliffs of dover, limestone, chalk etc.

 

I sot of overshot and I have been looking down around EUKARYOTES and I guess your Cyanobacteria which presumably are the slime living bacteria in mats a) producing oxygen in vast quantities to allow the rest of us to breath and b ) algae ( not quite sure what they were up to .. more photosynthesis and oxygen ??

 

I have then headed up from deep within the Pre-cambrian times groping around like some burrowing slime looking for calcium. As I approached the Pre-cambrian/cambrian boundary I had an interlude with ediacara biota.... extermination......... then BINGO ...there it was CAMBRIAN creatures busy like stink taking hold of CALCIUM by the ton . They were making themselves Backbones, shells, protective backs all from CALCIUM. With their new found protective coatings they were winning the war on everything else. We are still doing it. OOps I must take some more calcium pills. So there were all the fossils calcium shells being converted into fossils while the soft bodied Pre-cambrian life was leaving barely a message to later life like us.

 

However I still have the problem as to what the form of calcuium was, that the cambrians were eating, maybe they were eating the Pre-cambrians like ediacara biota.

 

I have the feeling that its the bacteria that absorb CaCO3 fix the carbon and give off some O.

 

 

So if that is the case how did exploding Calcium get to CaCO3 in the mantle/crust ? Presumably the Black underslime in the bacterial mats is the CARBON, the Oxygen is for animals to breath. Also shell, crusty, backboned cambrians get plenty of calcium in the pre-cambrian species that survived.

 

Perhaps you can fill in the gaps or my wrong understanding.

 

All good fuel for my paintings. I have recently painted two trilobites, an Edicara biota and the entire geological chronology from Precambrian to Quaternary, illustrated.

 

I will try to photograph and upload soon.

 

.

 

 

 

 

The cliffs of dover, if im not mistaken are a couple hundred million years old. They are made of tiny shells...coccoliths. Organisms (and plate tectonics n such) created them. If you want to know how organisms make shells or coccoliths or other calcium carbonate structures, then that is something a biologist may be more familiar with. It is likely that the methods used to develop calcium carbonate in organisms today, are the same as they were back then.

 

I just read the post before mine. I personally do not know much about how organisms make their shells, but the person who has posted before me has suggested something that may be the case. It sounds reasonable.

Edited November 21, 2012 by iDevonian

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Mike, I am having trouble understanding what you are talking about. If this doesn't help then we need to further discuss this for sure.

 

Calcium was part of the solar nebula, a very small part to be sure but once the dust and gasses condensed into our planet calcium was present in the crust as various compounds, Calcium Chloride and Calcium Oxide was probably a large part of it, it's doubtful that pure calcium was present, calcium is a reactive element and would seldom if ever occur as a pure element, these compounds would have been combined into various rocks. Weathering by rain and exposure to CO2 caused huge amounts to dissolve in the oceans ending up as calcium carbonate. Organisms and other natural processes pulled this Calcium carbonate out of the water to be deposited as rock.

 

Is this helpful or did I get your question wrong?

 

 

No, you did not get my question wrong.

 

Yes , this has been very useful and spot on the time scale I was looking at. I am using this information , melded with other research I am gaining from various books and conversations. I had a conversation today with a retired teacher of chemistry who endorsed what you said. He was part of an Art Painting Group, that I am also part of. I immediately put the ideas to to Paint. Today I painted an image of calcium compounds descending to the infant earth. The earths crust was just being made by the churning of magma in the upper mantle. The various calcium compound dust, particles, agglomerates , were mixing in with the mantle like cream in a dark red pudding. Some of the calcium compounds were being scraped off the top of the mantle due to their low density and immediate presence on the mantle top. Thus was sown and shown some of the white calcium based compounds , ready for dissolving in the future ocean as Calcium Carbonate as well as the injesting by future life and depositing as sedimentary rock. This glimpse of the earth of between 4,500- 4,000 million years ago is a thrill to behold.

 

With your help and that of iDevonian, john Cuthbert and Ophiolite, as well as a book I am currently reading by Richard Fortey ( Life an unauthorised Biography 1998 ), I have built up this image. Maybe it is not quite right , but to me it has filled a missing picture.

 

Now I need to build up the timeline from this mineral soup to the Cambrian- Pre-Cambrian border.

 

.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Ophiolite]

The Earth formed from condensed particles in the solar nebula that approximated the composition of chondrites. This extract from a 2007 review article explains it in more detail. (Annual review of earth and planetary sciences. Volume 16 (A88-52285 22-46). Palo Alto, CA, Annual Reviews, Inc., 1988, p. 53-72)

 

Chondrites are sedimentary rocks principally composed of chondrules, which are roughly millimeter-sized particles that were once wholly or partly molten in the nebula and were deposited with several other kinds of particles at the midplane of the solar nebula. Chondrules are largely composed of olivine, (MgxFe1−x)2SiO4, and low-Ca pyroxene,MgxFe1−xSiO3, where x is the Mg/(Mg+Fe) ratio, which crystallized in hours or minutes between∼1800 and∼1300K. These silicates are also major minerals in the chondrite matrix— the fine-grained silicate material that coats chondrules and other coarse chondritic ingredients and in some cases fills the interstices between them. The other two important ingredients of chondrites are the refractory inclusions, which are composed almost entirely of crystalline siliacates and oxides rich in Ca, Al and Ti and formed above 1300K, and the metallic Fe, Ni grains which appear to be closely associetedwith chondrules and coeval with them.

 

Three features suggest that the chondritic ingredients come from the solar nebula disk from which the planets formed. First, their bulk cjhemical composition match that of the Sun's photosphere (neglecting the incompletely condensed elements H, He, C, N, O and the inert gases). Second, chondrite matrices contain small amounts of interstellar and circumstellargrains. Finally, the mineralogy, chamical and oxygen isotopic composition of the chondritic ingredients can generally be understood in terms of thermal processing over the diverse temperature in the solar nebula.

 

I take exception to calling an aggregate of melt derivatives a sedimentary rock, but other than that the summary is excellent.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The Earth formed from condensed particles in the solar nebula that approximated the composition of chondrites. This extract from a 2007 review article explains it in more detail. (Annual review of earth and planetary sciences. Volume 16 (A88-52285 22-46). Palo Alto, CA, Annual Reviews, Inc., 1988, p. 53-72)

 

Chondrites are sedimentary rocks principally composed of chondrules, which are roughly millimeter-sized particles that were once wholly or partly molten in the nebula and were deposited with several other kinds of particles at the midplane of the solar nebula. Chondrules are largely composed of olivine, (MgxFe1−x)2SiO4, and low-Ca pyroxene,MgxFe1−xSiO3, where x is the Mg/(Mg+Fe) ratio, which crystallized in hours or minutes between∼1800 and∼1300K. These silicates are also major minerals in the chondrite matrix— the fine-grained silicate material that coats chondrules and other coarse chondritic ingredients and in some cases fills the interstices between them. The other two important ingredients of chondrites are the refractory inclusions, which are composed almost entirely of crystalline siliacates and oxides rich in Ca, Al and Ti and formed above 1300K, and the metallic Fe, Ni grains which appear to be closely associetedwith chondrules and coeval with them.

 

Three features suggest that the chondritic ingredients come from the solar nebula disk from which the planets formed. First, their bulk cjhemical composition match that of the Sun's photosphere (neglecting the incompletely condensed elements H, He, C, N, O and the inert gases). Second, chondrite matrices contain small amounts of interstellar and circumstellargrains. Finally, the mineralogy, chamical and oxygen isotopic composition of the chondritic ingredients can generally be understood in terms of thermal processing over the diverse temperature in the solar nebula.

 

I take exception to calling an aggregate of melt derivatives a sedimentary rock, but other than that the summary is excellent.

 

 

Great, Now you have got me investigating Meteorites and their Calcium compound content. ( More things to think about , to Draw and Paint )

 

I love it. Thanks

 

.

 

 

Great, Now you have got me investigating Meteorites and their Calcium compound content. ( More things to think about , to Draw and Paint )

 

I love it. Thanks

 

.

 

" My God " I have just looked up Chondrules in Wickapedia " Its all full of stars " Said Richard Bowman in "2001 a space Odessy "

 

 

The images of Chondrules are mind blowing

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Trillions upon trillions of meteorites. Some with white Condrules of Calcium.?

.

.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Trillions upon trillions of meteorites. Some with white Condrules of Calcium.?

 

.

 

.

 

 

I think I now have my first shot of the Early bombardment of the infant Earth some 4 ,300 MYA ( million years Ago )

 

 

 

 

Artists Impression

Edited January 4, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

 

I think I now have my first shot of the Early bombardment of the infant Earth some 4 ,300 MYA ( million years Ago )

 

 

DSCF0034.JPG

 

 

Artists Impression

 

Help , Get me out of here !

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Help , Get me out of here !

 

 

Clearly, Asteroids and meteors have been and are still showering down on our Earth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Russia seems to be a common landing site.

 

 

And still there was the coincidental Asteroid pass by !

Edited March 14, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

WHY did NOBODY not tell me about the CALCITE The TRILOBITES have CALCITE EYES

 

Calcium Carbonate must have been made up above . sprinkled out of the sky like baking powder or come down already dissolved in water. The Trilobites got hold of it and developed CALCITE EYES! CALCIUM AGAIN

 

 

 

REF:

Richard Forty in Book The Oxford Book of Modern Scientific Writing Page 82 2008/2009 Pub Oxford University Press USA

 

Richard Forty was a Contributor among many famous scientists Chap Title 'Trilobite'

Edited May 25, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Ophiolite]

I don't quite see (with non-calcite eyes) why you are so enamoured by/excited about calcium. It is the fifth most common element in the Earth's crust and plays a central role in biology and geology. But it isn't as important as oxygen in either regard.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I don't quite see (with non-calcite eyes) why you are so enamoured by/excited about calcium. It is the fifth most common element in the Earth's crust and plays a central role in biology and geology. But it isn't as important as oxygen in either regard.

Well I think what fascinates me is this post Cambrian/pre-Cambrian divide. If I have picked it up right , some 3,000,000,000 years went by with calcium being about in one form or another, and yet it did not seem to take off in life forms until mainly the Pre Cambrian to Cambrian border ( there must be another name for this - like pc-c boundry ). Then they got their teeth,( and started eating each other) shells, spines and appeared in the fossil explosion. ( Also its probably because its white )

 

And it was such a surprise to me , the other day that these pervasive trilobites, that seem to span many of the periods in the geological column,got hold of miniature Calcite crystals in arrays to see with.

 

 

By the way thanks for your succinct , geological comments for my U3A group. You are now the great GURU. The great Professor up in Glasgow or somewhere We need a Big Picture of you , 6 feet High, to bring out at the beginning of our meetings. !

Edited May 27, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Moontanman]

Well I think what fascinates me is this post Cambrian/pre-Cambrian divide. If I have picked it up right , some 3,000,000,000 years went by with calcium being about in one form or another, and yet it did not seem to take off in life forms until mainly the Pre Cambrian to Cambrian border ( there must be another name for this - like pc-c boundry ). Then they got their teeth,( and started eating each other) shells, spines and appeared in the fossil explosion. ( Also its probably because its white )

 

And it was such a surprise to me , the other day that these pervasive trilobites, that seem to span many of the periods in the geological column,got hold of miniature Calcite crystals in arrays to see with.

 

triolobiteeyes.jpg

 

By the way thanks for your succinct , geological comments for my U3A group. You are now the great GURU. The great Professor up in Glasgow or somewhere We need a Big Picture of you , 6 feet High, to bring out at the beginning of our meetings. !

 

You realize that's not the way it works don't you? Calcium was no doubt used in many chemical pathways before it was used as armor then teeth and eyes. No trilobite found a clear calcite crystal and used it as an eye...

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

No trilobite found a clear calcite crystal and used it as an eye...

 

I Know . That is just " tong in cheek " about the gathering.

If you have some pre history of calcium from super nova to precambrian/cambrian border I would be delighted.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I have come across this NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC VIDEO which gives a good visualisation as to what happened in those very early PRE CAMBRIAN times ,when the Earth was being formed.

 

 

 

THE STORY OF EARTH PART 1 to 6 by National Geographic

 

Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4pt0fFn_a4

 

 

 

Obviously nobody knows exactly how it happened . But this has brought a better picture for me .

 

Mike

Edited August 15, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

A National Geographic Video Showing what elements came down to make up the Core of Earth

 

Important

[ GO TO 1:23:37

( it's an hour and a half video but the last 5 minutes show the Elements forming in the Core )

 

So move video to 1 Hour 23 Minutes 37 Seconds to watch the CORE Materials ]

 

 

Link http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=6d0R4imErhs#t=5070

 

 

Unless of course you want to watch the whole decent through the Earths crust all the way to the core. Fascinating !

 

mike

Edited November 14, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos