The Secret of the Vedas

[Phi for All]

 

Moontanman calls facts established from experiments as horse feathers. LoL

 

Observer in Quantum Experiments

 

Its your beliefs which are horse feathers Moontanman not mine. You guys need to give up these two beliefs urgently if you expect people to give back respect to you guys.

 

1. Your belief in free will

2. Your belief in the existence of an empirical reality independent of the human mind.

 

Because facts established from experiments contradicts both of those beliefs strongly. Sooner or later this will be introduced in schools.

!

Moderator Note

immortal, as John Cuthber said, you need to either back up your assertions or accept that you don't have any evidence and STOP MAKING STATEMENTS AS IF THEY ARE ESTABLISHED FACT.

 

Your account is currently under staff review. You have failed to provide adequate support for your claims on multiple occasions, which is against the rules you agreed to when you joined.

[tar]

Immortal,<br /><br />Concerning mind body dualism.<br /><br />There are figurative things I believe in. I am open to the general notion that that "my" existence is not completely framed by my birth and eventual death. There is some ownership of, and responsibility for the evolutionary chain that led to me, and the thread that will be carried forward by my relatives, close and distant. Based on empirical evidence...such as the fact that half the instructions for my TAR organism existed soon after my mother was concieved, and 1/4 of my pattern lived in my infant grandmother...and so on in halves...way back to Lucy. Empirically true as well are the carbon based lifeforms that have been constantly enriching the biosphere of the Earth, with molecules required for my existence. I am beholding to these, real, empirically verifiable organisms. They are real, and did live and die on this planet. This planet which is real, and not an illusion.<br /><br />But the evidence also shows that my consciousness is intimately married to my human organism, the body/brain/heart group that is named TAR, has a particular real, but deceased mother and a very real and very alive father. My mother's soul is "with Jesus" because she loved Jesus and lived with Jesus in her heart, and now she resides in my memory and the memories of all that she touched in her life. You can parse the figurative and literal into that statement in various ways, but it can be parsed without demanding that Jesus was the literal son of a literal rule giving, anthropomorphic God. It can be understood as Jesus being a symbol of mankind, in much the same way as half gods in several traditions have human and divine characteristics, and God can be taken as all the history and expanse of "being" that existed prior to, and allowing the emergence of conscious man. This general "being" shows itself to us all. We know it was before our birth, and we know it exists now, and we know it will continue to exist after our death. It is exactly NOT an illusion. It is evidently the case.<br /><br />To consider mind and body separate considerations, under the circumstances is not practical. There is no part of you, no "essence of you" that would have meant anything at all out of the context of reality. You already have full membership to reality. Mind and body are intertwined. Everywhere I go, there I am...and other obvious experiments can be run to prove this to be empirically true.<br /><br />So where is your "proof" that life and consciousness is an "illusion", when everything real suggests the exact opposite? You can not find a single god, or a single adorning jewel, anywhere, or any time in the natural history of the planet we reside on, or anywhere within our telescopic or microscopic view. No recorded pictures, no footprints, no anything. And no evidence of an identifiable "soul" making some natural transition from one "organism" to another. Figuratively sure, but literally? I don't think you have any evidence of this. Why, in the thousands of years that reincarnation has been believed in, has not anybody thought to leave a trail, or marker that they could then show to us, the "next time" they were born?<br /><br />And if this "separate" soul would have an indentity that was transferable from John McCoy in seventh century British Isles to Ming Qi in 12th century Mongolia, would it be the soul of Ming Qi or John McCoy that we would be identifying? And what, (god forbid) if John McCoy would have had Western thoughts and been a far enemy of Ming Qi?<br /><br />On free will. I took a pee a few minutes ago, and I did not require the assistance of the urination god.<br />Nor did I pray for his permission.<br /><br />Regards, TAR2

Edited January 21, 2013 by tar

[immortal]

Immortal,

 

Concerning mind body dualism. There are figurative things I believe in. I am open to the general notion that that "my" existence is not completely framed by my birth and eventual death. There is some ownership of, and responsibility for the evolutionary chain that led to me, and the thread that will be carried forward by my relatives, close and distant. Based on empirical evidence...such as the fact that half the instructions for my TAR organism existed soon after my mother was concieved, and 1/4 of my pattern lived in my infant grandmother...and so on in halves...way back to Lucy. Empirically true as well are the carbon based lifeforms that have been constantly enriching the biosphere of the Earth, with molecules required for my existence. I am beholding to these, real, empirically verifiable organisms. They are real, and did live and die on this planet. This planet which is real, and not an illusion.

 

But the evidence also shows that my consciousness is intimately married to my human organism, the body/brain/heart group that is named TAR, has a particular real, but deceased mother and a very real and very alive father. My mother's soul is "with Jesus" because she loved Jesus and lived with Jesus in her heart, and now she resides in my memory and the memories of all that she touched in her life. You can parse the figurative and literal into that statement in various ways, but it can be parsed without demanding that Jesus was the literal son of a literal rule giving, anthropomorphic God.

 

It can be understood as Jesus being a symbol of mankind, in much the same way as half gods in several traditions have human and divine characteristics, and God can be taken as all the history and expanse of "being" that existed prior to, and allowing the emergence of conscious man. This general "being" shows itself to us all. We know it was before our birth, and we know it exists now, and we know it will continue to exist after our death. It is exactly NOT an illusion. It is evidently the case.

 

To consider mind and body separate considerations, under the circumstances is not practical. There is no part of you, no "essence of you" that would have meant anything at all out of the context of reality. You already have full membership to reality. Mind and body are intertwined. Everywhere I go, there I am...and other obvious experiments can be run to prove this to be empirically true.

 

So where is your "proof" that life and consciousness is an "illusion", when everything real suggests the exact opposite? You can not find a single god, or a single adorning jewel, anywhere, or any time in the natural history of the planet we reside on, or anywhere within our telescopic or microscopic view. No recorded pictures, no footprints, no anything. And no evidence of an identifiable "soul" making some natural transition from one "organism" to another. Figuratively sure, but literally? I don't think you have any evidence of this. Why, in the thousands of years that reincarnation has been believed in, has not anybody thought to leave a trail, or marker that they could then show to us, the "next time" they were born?

 

And if this "separate" soul would have an indentity that was transferable from John McCoy in seventh century British Isles to Ming Qi in 12th century Mongolia, would it be the soul of Ming Qi or John McCoy that we would be identifying? And what, (god forbid) if John McCoy would have had Western thoughts and been a far enemy of Ming Qi?

 

You guys need to understand about the divine light rays that I speak of in my OP in order to understand the secret of the Vedas.

 

The Theology of Julian's Hymn to King Helios

 

This summarizes very satisfactorily the role that Julian has chosen for the Sun Gud , a deity to whom his devotion was very real. There is heartfelt testimony to this at the beginning of the hymn (130C):

 

"For I am a follower of King Helios. And of this fact I possess within me, known to myself alone, proofs more certain than I can give. But this at least I am permitted to say without sacrilege, that from my childhood an extraordinary longing for the rays of the god penetrated deep into my soul; and from my earliest years my mind was so completely swayed by the light that illumines the heavens that not only did I desire to gaze intently at the sun, but whenever I walked abroad at night, when the sky was clear and cloudless, I abandoned all else without exception and gave myself up to the beauties of the heavens; nor did I understand what anyone might say to me, nor heed what I was doing myself"

 

Hymn to King Helios

 

"But this visible disc also, third[21] in rank, is clearly, for the objects of sense-perception the cause of preservation, and this visible Helios[22] is the cause for the visible gods[23] of just as many blessings as we said mighty Helios bestows on the intellectual gods. And of this there are clear proofs for one who studies the unseen world in the light of things seen.[24] For in the first place, is not light itself a sort of incorporeal and divine form of the transparent in a state of activity? And as for the transparent itself, whatever it is, since it is the underlying basis, so to speak, of all the elements, and is a form peculiarly belonging to them, it is not like the corporeal or compounded, nor does it admit qualities peculiar to corporeal substance.[25] You will not therefore say that heat is a property of the transparent,[26] or its opposite cold, nor will you assign to it hardness or softness or any other of the various, attributes connected with touch or taste or smell; [134] but a nature of this sort is obvious to sight alone, since it is brought into activity by light. And light is a form of this substance, so to speak, which is the substratum of and coextensive with the heavenly bodies. And of light, itself incorporeal, the culmination and flower, so to speak, is the sun's rays. Now the doctrine of the Phoenicians, who were wise and learned in sacred lore, declared that the rays of light everywhere diffused are the undefiled incarnation of pure mind. And in harmony with this is our theory, seeing that light itself is incorporeal, if one should regard its fountainhead, not as corporeal, but as the undefiled activity of mind[27] pouring light into its own abode: and this is assigned to the middle of the whole firmament, whence it sheds its rays and fills the heavenly spheres with vigour of every kind and illumines all things with light divine and undefiled. Now the activities proceeding from it and exercised among the gods have been, in some measure at least, described by me a little earlier[28] and will shortly be further spoken of."

 

Emperor Julian and Neoplatonism

 

"Referring to the Phoenicians, Julian cites their teaching that "the rays of light everywhere diffused are the undefiled incarnation [imbodiment] of pure mind." Modern scientists are within an ace of confirming some of these more recondite facts for themselves."

 

Many people are slowly recognizing that this is true. This is what Aurobindo argued for and this is what I am arguing for in this thread, this is the secret of the Vedas, the divine light rays of the holistic Sun-deity which is one of the most ancient preserved religion of the world, no one has preserved this religion like we have, it pre-dates Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc and when we bring back this knowledge it will be more powerful than all the exact sciences put together.

 

 

On free will. I took a pee a few minutes ago, and I did not require the assistance of the urination god.<br />Nor did I pray for his permission.

 

Regards, TAR2

 

You are not in control of your life.

 

 

Apana

Apana, literally the “air that moves away,” moves downward and outward and governs all forms of elimination and reproduction (which also has a downward movement). It governs the elimination of the stool and the urine, the expelling of semen, menstrual fluid and the fetus, and the elimination of carbon dioxide through the breath. On a deeper level it rules the elimination of negative sensory, emotional and mental experiences. It is the basis of our immune function on all levels.

Apana is the god who controls your excretory functions, you don't have free will, everything is subject to the gods and everything is going according to their will.

 

Don't tell us that reality isn't real.

 

Why shouldn't I tell that to you guys when all evidence is in favour of my position?

 

 

At a physics conference attended by several hundred physicists (including the two of us), an argument broke out in the discussion period after a talk. (The heated across-the-auditorium debate was reported in the New York Times in December 2005.) One participant argued that because of its weirdness, quantum theory had a problem. Another vigorously denied there was a problem, accusing the fi rst of having “missed the point.” A third broke in to say, “We’re just too young. We should wait until 2200 when quantum mechanics is taught in kindergarten.” A fourth summarized the argument by saying, “The world is not as real as we think.” Three of these arguers have Nobel Prizes in Physics, and the fourth is a good candidate for one.

 

This argument recalls an analogy that refl ects our own bias. A couple is in marriage counseling. The wife says, “There’s a problem in our marriage.” Her husband disagrees, saying, “There’s no problem in our marriage.” The marriage counselor knows who’s right.

 

- Quantum Enigma, Bruce Rosenblum and Fred Kuttner

 

This time religion is going to correct science be rest assured of that.

 

!

Moderator Note

immortal, as John Cuthber said, you need to either back up your assertions or accept that you don't have any evidence and STOP MAKING STATEMENTS AS IF THEY ARE ESTABLISHED FACT.

 

Your account is currently under staff review. You have failed to provide adequate support for your claims on multiple occasions, which is against the rules you agreed to when you joined.

 

I'll be happy if the mods first apply those rules upon themselves before applying it on other members. I did gave numerous evidences in support of my specific claims.

 

Did you actually read that link? it says nothing about gods... yours or anyone else's ..

 

Start accepting these facts first then I'll show you how gods are real as a logical consequence of that.

[John Cuthber]

"You guys need to understand about the divine light rays that I speak of in my OP in order to understand the secret of the Vedas."

No, we don't.

However, you need to understand the note from the moderator,

In particular this

"Why shouldn't I tell that to you guys when all evidence is in favour of my position?" is exactly what you were warned about.