r1dermon Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 ok, so im going to be making some rocket propellent. it will consist of ammonium perchlorate, aluminum powder, HTPB, isonate, DOA and HX878. my question is. i want to make a green flame propellent, and i want it have almost the same ISP as the above propellent. now, what should i use to make i green? wont barrium nitrate slash the ISP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 use barium sulfate; it won't react with anything there but will give yoru green colour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 "use barium sulfate; it won't react with anything there but will give yoru green colour" Seconded. Just don't use anything like barium chlorate that will indeed give you a nice green flame, but will probably cause premature detonation of your propellant mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 chlorates are never good for such mixtures. use perchlorates instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 "chlorates are never good for such mixtures. use perchlorates instead" Yeah, if you have to choose between the two. Metal chlorates are of course very unstable, but perchlorates aren't too stable either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 actually, ethyl perchlorate for example is absurdly unstable, as all organic chlorates/perchlorates are. perchlorates aren't all that stable but they are significantly more so than chlorates and more effective than nitrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted December 18, 2004 Author Share Posted December 18, 2004 hmmm, barium sulfate....any ideas on proportions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 18, 2004 Share Posted December 18, 2004 "hmmm, barium sulfate....any ideas on proportions?" I'm not quite sure, but I'd go with a 0,5%-1% of overall fuel weight first to see what happens. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 yeah, considering it isnt the propellant itself, just a little is needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 since a large majority of flames are Yellow(ish) in color, perhaps a Blue (copper salt) would give a better green when mixed? just a though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 cuprous salts work i suppose, although barium works better from what i have heard. nonetheless, cuprous salts are less expensive and more readily obtainable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted December 19, 2004 Share Posted December 19, 2004 Barium salts are often used as Brightners in compositions as opposed to the green they CAN exibit. a Blue would produce a better Green in the instance where a Chlorine donor isn`t present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 so say i add some table salt, and a copper compound in the same proportions, you think that would give a better green flame? i'll try both, i've already had some barium ordered. what should i use for the copper salt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 eh...dont add table salt. it produces a strong yellow that really eliminates all the other colours. you have barium ordered??????? you mean a salt of barium i hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 "you have barium ordered??????? you mean a salt of barium i hope" What's wrong with pure barium, it can be easily stored under mineral oil. Although in this case, you'd probably prefer a barium salt instead of pure barium metal. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 what's wrong is that it's like $100 for a few grams. not exactly pocket change for a colour effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Ummm............ I got my 20-25 gram sample of barium metal for only about 30 bucks. If you paid $100 for a few grams, you were SEVERELY ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 i actually don't have barium but ive seen it that expensive. props to you for getting it so cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 i actually don't have barium but ive seen it that expensive. props to you for getting it so cheap Here ya go. Now you can get some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Metallium Inc. owns. Bought my rare earth collection from them, only $119 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 nonono, barium nitrate. although. i wouldnt mind an ampoule of the pure stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 "nonono, barium nitrate." UH-OH. Are you aware that barium nitrate is a) very reactive b) very poisonous (lethal dose ranges from 1 to 15 grams!) c) a very good oxidizer? Go with a sulphate or another relatively safe salt, the nitrate is a HUGE safety risk if mixed with your propellant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1dermon Posted December 21, 2004 Author Share Posted December 21, 2004 what if i use IT in place of amonium perchlorate? hmm...maybe some bright green flash compositions will become of this barium nitrate. where do i get barium sulfate? my supplier doesnt carry it. and they carry a lot of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 it wouldnt work as well. perchlorates are definitely the best for the job. edit: well there are perxenates.....but we wont talk about them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'd imagine you could use carbonate instead of the sulfate? Edit: "well there are perxenates.....but we wont talk about them" Yeah, they're rather unpractical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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