The way to take college/uni for Neuroscience?

[kurple]

Hi I'm still in high school and I'm wondering: If i want to go to into neuroscience research which courses I should take? and where?

 

On the top of my head I know I want to take courses about:

 

- the physical parts of the brain (cellular/molecular neuroscience)

 

- what instruments we currently have to study the brain (neural engineering, EE?)

 

- a course to learn more in depth about instruments/tools so I can make my own if I have to (EE?)

 

As for schools I'm looking at John Hopkins, MIT, and Harvard (lol as if I'll get in). I know, the list is very limited lol.

 

Sorry my own research is so limited, but honestly I just want to start somewhere and get a better feel of things.

 

What I'm personally into is observation of synaptic modification. Basically I want to study about memory. I'm not trying to become a neurosurgeon or anything like that. I guess my plan is to rely on grants of my research? I still have a lot of researching to do as to how I'll maintain my job lol.

If I can get some better lighting on things it would really help.

Edited December 15, 2012 by kurple

[iNow]

More important than where you study is usually with whom you study. You can get a decent foundation in neuroscience nearly anywhere. What you want to do is study with the professors and researchers who inspire you and who seem interested in similar things as you. Volunteer in their labs. Take their classes. Become friends with their grad students. It's often better to focus more on who is teaching the class than how the syllabus describes the class.

[kurple]

So are you implying that I look for professors instead of schools? Unfortunately I don't know many people in this field, but thanks for the advice I'll go look for some.

 

You mentioned I can get a decent foundation in neuroscience nearly anywhere, but I'm still in the dark about this subject. Can you give me an example of what you did or something?

[iNow]

Yeah, sure. Please note that I am not a practicing neuroscientist, but it was always one of my favorite topics in school and I like to stay up to date on what's happening in the field. I took some related classes freshman and sophomore year... stuff like "Biopsychology" and other courses specifically focused on the mechanisms underlying human perception and cognition. It was when taking these classes that I volunteered in the labs and helped the grad students / teacher's assistants with their own dissertations... usually over beer and burgers! There are things you can do today, however....

 

I like to watch TED talks about neuroscience, as there are a lot of really great ones:

 

http://www.ted.com/search?q=neuron

http://www.ted.com/search?q=neuroscience

 

There are some really cool books, too... Like A Brief Tour of Human Consciousness by V.S. Ramachandran.

 

I also subscribe to science news sites centered around neuroscience, like this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/mind_brain/neuroscience/

 

And I Liked the Neuroscience Research Techniques page on Facebook so I get regular updates in my newsfeed.

 

 

As for finding a professor, a lot of that comes from reading the papers and journals and books and seeing which ones really stand out to you. There are some authors that you may just "click" with, or whom you find fascinating and brilliant and like they're "speaking your language." It's always good to try studying under them whenever possible, but it's not always easy to achieve this. That's why I said you can get a decent foundation at nearly any university and supplement that with self-study. I hope this helps. Enjoy.

[kurple]

Thanks for sharing your experience with this topic.

 

 

I'll search around for a professor/researcher who is researching in the topic that I'm interested in and try to look up their school. To tell you the truth nobody really "inspired" me into this subject; I inspired myself. That's why I'm not very keen on how or where to search for professors/researchers to mentor me.

 

 

I'll try for a few days and report if I find anyone.

 

 

I should really be looking for a school soon for fall semester or I might not even make it.

 

 

Which brings me to my next question: Am I too late to be looking for schools at this point? It's already december and some schools have already closed registrations. And I've noticed that some schools require "biology, physics, inorganic and organic chemistry, and calculus" (standford for example) before I take neuroscience. So is neuroscience actually a class people take in their 3rd or 4th year? I know I'm asking a lot, but honestly there's no one I can talk to about this "obscure" subject.

[iNow]

I think many students take the prerequisite courses like History, Biology, English, Math 101 during their first year or two, and then get into more specific classes that interest them like neuroscience in late sophomore or junior year. It just depends, though. You might follow a completely different path.

 

Do you have a guidance counselor you could speak with? Alternatively, perhaps you could explore a syllabus at a few schools to learn about their approach.

[Ringer]

Are you looking at a neuroscience class, or a neuroscience major? Virtually all schools have neuroscience classes, but not all have neuroscience as a major.

[kurple]

neuroscience as both a class and a major. Honestly I don't know what the appropriate class I'm suppose to take in order to research into what I wanted to. Neuroscience is the closest thing I can get.

[CharonY]

It depends a lot on the school and ideally you should look for one with a strong curriculum as well as active research. Generally it is not taught in the first two semesters or so, as some foundations in bio are needed. I am thinking that courses may start popping second year or so. It depends how strong and focused bio teaching is (as opposed to life-science oriented curricula).

[kurple]

Yeah I've noticed that neuroscience isn't a freshman course and I'm required to take biology and sometimes psychology for a school's neuroscience course.

I've looked into 3 schools so far: Harvard, MIT, and John Hopskins.

 

Right now the most prospective mentor I'm looking at is Susumu Tonegawa in MIT. So I'm really hoping I get accepted there (it's a far cry).

 

If all fails I got a back-up plan in my local community college to knock out prerequisites while I work on a better application.

 

I really learned a lot from this thread. Thank you all for helping.

But one thing I'm still missing is a post from an actual neuroscientist to give me a personal insider on how to go about things, his own research, and which prospective schools he was also looking at. You know a "mentor"? lol.

Edited December 17, 2012 by kurple

[iNow]

I'm unsure if we have an actively practicing neuroscientists as part of the community right now. We have many folks with very strong backgrounds in bio, and others in psych (also chemistry, physics, and maths), but I'm unsure on neuro.

 

I will say that one of the best things you can do is to get the prerequisite courses in bio and psych done early, and to study hard in each of them... absorbing as much as you can. Once you form that foundation with the basics you'll have a much firmer structure on which to build your knowledge of neuroscience... the field that inspires you and where you find your most intense passion.

 

Thanks also for reminding me how fun it is to be young and have your whole future ahead of you. In the meantime, hopefully you'll hang out and participate in other parts of the community here... reading, contributing, and sharing. Good luck with it all, kurple!

[CharonY]

I do not think that we have got a neuroscientist here. My suggestion is to pick up a few good neuro books (e.g. Kandel or any of the many available). Note that in science you do not necessarily get a good mentor relationship. It depends a lot on size of the lab and the principal investigator. Also note that the right research group tends to be become relevant during the postgraduate studies, before that showing a good foundation is usually sufficient.

[Ringer]

I am where you will be shortly. Since my University doesn't have a strict neuroscience major I have to double major to get the courses I will need for grad school. Keep in mind that neuroscience is a very large field with very diverse topics. Some parts are more psych related while others are more bio heavy, know that what you want to cover may be better covered in a different area than your strict major. With that in mind graduate schools aren't super picky about what your major was as an undergraduate as long as you have experience in the fundamentals of whatever area you will be in. If you have never had neuroscience, but have had cellular development classes, you can work with neurological development in graduate school. At least that's how it is many places I've looked into.

[kurple]

...Also note that the right research group tends to be become relevant during the postgraduate studies, before that showing a good foundation is usually sufficient.

 

In regards to research how exactly does it happen?

 

When can I start?

Who gives our these labs/funding?

How likely is it to get funded?

How do people go about joining them, on the reserve side how do I go about joining an already established one?

Is research your thesis (for PhD)?

If you graduate without completing your research do you stay in the university or something else? On that note will the research get scraped?

 

Still a lot of questions to ask lol. Sorry folks.

[CharonY]

 

In regards to research how exactly does it happen?

 

When can I start?

Usually you can start during your undergrad study as a volunteer, but it generally requires a little experience (e.g. taking a few practical courses in the area). Undergrad research often results in more work for the researchers in the lab (as they have to do hands-on teaching), and having no basics is usually a bit too much effort (unless you demonstrate some practical usefulness).

Who gives our these labs/funding?

Most funding is provided by agencies such as NIH, NSF and other federal or state departments. Sometimes research (usually applied) is sponsored from other sources.

How likely is it to get funded?

Depends on type of funding, research and reputation of the principle investigator. Getting personal stipends, for instance, is not super-hard. Getting research funds to actually run a lab, much more so. On average the NIH funding are dropping well below 10% (i.e. 90% of all grant applications are rejected), with the more sought-after grants being much lower (close to 1-5%). The average R01 (which is one of the oldest funding mechanisms of the NIH and is considered a bread-and-butter fund) is in his/her 40s, for example.

How do people go about joining them, on the reserve side how do I go about joining an already established one?

Is research your thesis (for PhD)?

If you graduate without completing your research do you stay in the university or something else? On that note will the research get scraped?

Depends on to what purpose you join a lab. Generally you just ask. Undergrad research is generally not tied to a given degree (but can naturally lead to a bachelor/master/PhD thesis. Research is generally never completed, chances are that if the results are useful someone else will continue, if you produce crap it will be scrapped. Note that there significant differences between countries (or even type of schools within a country).

Edited December 17, 2012 by CharonY

[Ringer]

Usually you can start during your undergrad study as a volunteer, but it generally requires a little experience (e.g. taking a few practical courses in the area). Undergrad research often results in more work for the researchers in the lab (as they have to do hands-on teaching), and having no basics is usually a bit too much effort (unless you demonstrate some practical usefulness).

Whoa, hold on a second. . . The researchers above you are supposed to help? Why wasn't I told?!??! I need to talk to my Professors about this.

[CharonY]

Well, teaching is not necessarily helping

Also, professors are talking to you?

[kurple]

Thanks for all the replies. To be honest I didn't think this forum was as active before today lol.

 

New question.

 

After getting a very specialized degree/PhD/whatever, for example neuroscience, how likely is it to get a job? I always thought researchers get millions of dollars and a really cool underground secret lab from the government like from movie, "The Invisible Man". (jk, but seriously)

 

How do degrees land a job? For example Physics or any major that are "kinda" more focused on research.

 

Any personal stories to share?

[CharonY]

If you are thinking with regards to an academic career, the outlook is bleak. The only real stable position is becoming a tenured professor (there are also positions in private and national labs, but they are so few that one should not plan on getting them), meaning that between teaching, getting funding and leading a lab you will have little time for actual research. However, less than 20% of all PhD holders will eventually get tenure.

How to land a job? In the end it depends on a heap of luck (you can tweak chances to your favor, but not just by being a good scientist).

It depends on whether you happen to work on a project that is a hot topic. It depends on whether your PI during your PhD/postdoc has the interest and power to further your career. In other words, many factors that are not in your power contribute to it. The reason is that there is a huge surplus in capable scientists, and nowadays it is almost impossible to distinguish yourself on your own.

In short, degrees do not land you a job, contacts and networks do.

 

Just to give an idea, after PhD you are going to become a postdoc, which, depending on the lab (and country) often involves working on several projects, leading grad students, some administrative work and sometimes teaching. Generally around 4 years are expected in biological sciences then you are supposed to find a faculty position. Problem is that most will not get it (as mentioned) and if you hang around for longer it actually reduces your net worth. Depending on area your likelihood of getting interviews drop after prolonged postdocs. So you technically have a somewhat narrow (though depending on your work often flexible) window to make a transition to faculty.

 

After that (if you are really lucky and have networked like crazy) you may become an assistant prof (or equivalent) and you are tasked to lead a lab, teach classes, doing administrative work (on faculty level) and get funding in. At this stage getting money is usually one of the main criteria of actually keeping the job (i.e. getting tenure). The funding rate of the big agencies such as NIH are somewhere between 2-10%. So if you do not get money after 5 years you may get your tenured denied. At this stage you may be around 40 and out of a job. Chances of getting a new shot at tenure are low as the new generation(s) of academics are now on the tracks.

 

In other words, if you want a stable and secure career with clear progression, academia is not for you. It is a highly competitive field and there is no clear path towards a career here. You really have to want that life, otherwise it is really not worth the stress.

Edited December 18, 2012 by CharonY

[Ringer]

Well, teaching is not necessarily helping

 

Also, professors are talking to you?

They have to, besides researching with a couple I also prep the biology department freshmen to junior lab classes. I get most of my sneak discussions in when they're telling me how they want the labs set up.

[TheRat]

I'm also very interested in neuroscience and want to go into research. I personally experienced a major ischemic stroke on November 22nd this last year and thanks to very quick intervention by doctors I am almost fully recovered (just mild spasticity in my left arm and hand and a lopsided smile). Anyways, the entire experience has inspired me to get my shit together and go back to school (I'm 25 and have an unfinished general humanities degree).

 

I've been accepted into my university as a transfer student and I'm incredibly excited about taking classes again. Now the question is what major(s) to do to get into a grad program in neuroscience. At my school the kinesiology, psychology and biology programs all have neuro and cognitive science courses, but different focuses. Kinesiology is actually very bio heavy with courses like human anatomy, physiology, biomechanics, neuroanatomy but also has some fluff courses like sociocultural perspectives. Biology has more research opportunities but is more animal focused. Psychology has pretty much everything but I wouldn't have to take any fluff courses and has really interesting stuff like memory, cognition, sensation and perception, neural basis of behaviour etc.

 

My questions are: can I get into a grad program in neuroscience with a kinesiology degree? Which major minor combination will give me the best chance to get into grad school?

 

I'm leaning towards combining kinesiology with psychology because they have the most relevant courses, but I'm worried about not getting enough research opportunities. Also, kinesiology and psychology are reputed to be easier programs than biology which brings up my other concern my brain! Its been through a lot recently and while I seem to be coping pretty well and don't appear to have been affected in terms of concentration,memory or other cognitive functions I worry about being able to handle a heavy courseload.

 

Sorry for all the questions, hopefully you guys can give me some suggestions!

Cheers

[Ringer]

You can get into neuroscience grad programs with virtually any degree that has something to do with the brain. Personally I am doing a Biology/Psychology double major, but the best thing to do is contact a couple of universities and ask them what types of classes they would prefer to see you take. Other than that it's personal preference.

[TheRat]

Ok, then hopefully psychology and kinesiology should do it. It seems like in Canada lots of schools have started undergrad neuroscience programs, although most people taking them are looking to get into medical school. That's a good point about contacting the universities directly.