Redrang604 Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 i have been researching this compound and sources are conflicting one another, some say it breaks down to a chlorite or chlorate, others chlorine and oxygen, also some say it can be a liquid, others only a gas, some say explosive, some merely say it breaks down. Can anyone give me a DIFFINITIVE list of properties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 ya im with Redrang on this i found "Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) is a synthetic yellowish-green gas with chlorine like odor. ClO2 is unstable as a gas and will undergo decomposition into chlorine gas (Cl2), oxygen gas (O2) and heat. However, ClO2 is stable and soluble in an aqueous solution." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 ok let me put this to rest. chlorine dioxide, also known as chlorine peroxide [math]ClO_2[/math] is extremely unstable because chlorine can't really have a +4 oxidation state or formal charge. it decomposes in an explosive manner to form chlorine and oxygen. it will oxidize things. according to my merck index (13th edition): "strongly oxidizing, yellow to reddish-yellow gas at room temp. unpleasant odor similar to that of chlorine and reminiscent of that of nitric acid. unstable in light; stable in dark if pure, but chlorides catalyze its decompn even in the dark. REACTS VIOLENTLY WITH ORGANIC MATERIALS. in concns in excess of 10% at atm pressure easily detonated by sunlight, heat, contact with mercury or carbon monoxide. mp=-59 celsius; bp= 11 celsius. sol in water (3.01g/l at 25 celsius and 34.5mm Hg) with slight hydrolysis to chlorous and chloric acid; sol in alkaline and sulfuric acid solns. solid is yellowish-red crystalline mass; liquid is reddish-brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 well then from my other thread what am i really producing? If its chlorine dioxide in an luquid solution its not exploding when exposed to light i beleive its just breaking down into Cl2 and oxygen. now if i dont have chlorine dioxide then what is it. and merck says its unstable cant that just mean that it decomps into cl2 and oxygen? im just really confused about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 how should i know what you made? look at the properties i listed for chlorine dioxide. if they match the properties of your gas, it probably was chlorine dioxide you made. YET AGAIN, chlorine dioxide does not simply "break down" to chlorine and oxygen. rather it DECOMPOSES RAPIDLY in such a manner than MANY MOLECULES OF GAS are evolved with a great RELEASE OF ENERGY. this is called an EXPLOSION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 "rather it DECOMPOSES RAPIDLY in such a manner than MANY MOLECULES OF GAS are evolved with a great RELEASE OF ENERGY. this is called an EXPLOSION" It's GOOD that you CLARIFIED things for us. Even though, the stuff Nave got might only have traces of ClO2, resulting in rapid decomposition yes, but not necessarily a "proper" exposion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrang604 Posted December 22, 2004 Author Share Posted December 22, 2004 What is the difference in decomoposition strength can vary with its state, is it more stable as a solid than as a gas, or liquid. Because what i get is a viscous red brown liquid which slowly creates oxygen and chlorine gases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 I'd imagine things are generally more stable when solid. I'm not sure if this goes with every molecule though. In your solution, there might be slow, yet continuous production of ClO2, which then decomposes. Or then it's something completely else. :I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 how should i know what you made? look at the properties i listed for chlorine dioxide. if they match the properties of your gas, it probably was chlorine dioxide you made. YET AGAIN, chlorine dioxide does not simply "break down" to chlorine and oxygen. rather it DECOMPOSES RAPIDLY in such a manner than MANY MOLECULES OF GAS are evolved with a great RELEASE OF ENERGY. this is called an EXPLOSION Yes, but H2O2 is also an unstable compound that breaks down into oxygen gas and water gas. Whether it explodes or not depends on the concentration. When 3% H2O2 undergoes a rapid decomposition, it's not all too impressive. When 50% H2O2 undergoes a rapid decomposition, it's incredibly impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 "When 50% H2O2 undergoes a rapid decomposition, it's incredibly impressive." Hope you hadn't "been impressed" by it personally, at least not too close due to accidentally dropping something not-suitable-with-H2O2 to your beaker. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted December 22, 2004 Share Posted December 22, 2004 "When 50% H2O2 undergoes a rapid decomposition' date=' it's incredibly impressive." Hope you hadn't "been impressed" by it personally, at least not too close due to accidentally dropping something not-suitable-with-H2O2 to your beaker. )[/quote'] lol. Definitely no. It was on a video of 'Things that can go wrong' in my safety training course in college. They showed 50% H2O2 going off, nitroglycerine forming and exploding in the beaker, old chunks of potassium catching fire as they were cut, old bottles of diethyl ether detonating, and a bunch of other nasty things. Must have been fun to make that video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrang604 Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 it seems that in consulting a soulubility tabel to find some way to determine chloride ions in the presence of sulfate ions i stumbled across a reference to both chlorine dioxide and chlorine monoxide, according to the book chlorine dioxide is only found in gasous state, however chlorine monoxide can be found as a red brown liquid which is exactly what i get in the reaction i am doing NaClO3 + H2SO4 --> ?. can anyone substantiate this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 chlorine dioxide can be a liquid... read above. merck index trumps all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 "chlorine dioxide can be a liquid... read above. merck index trumps all" Redrang's beaker (and probably something more dear to him) would have probably been long gone if the liquid he has was even relatively pure ClO2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 Well we did some self tests on our "CLO2" and it reacted like it.. It was in a liquid form and we shined a light on it and we could see the reaction increase(we put the light behind glass so we wouldnt heat it). Also merk says, "REACTS VIOLENTLY WITH ORGANIC MATERIALS." So i put some sugar in it and waited for a bit then it exploded(no flames) but it must have shot up 10, 15ft lol. So do these tests prove that i hav ClO2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 i would say you have aqueous chlorine dioxide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 ok so if we do then its decomps(but not fast of enough for an explosion) and releases cl2 and oxygen right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 it decomposes explosively yielding chlorine and oxygen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 it decomposes explosively yielding chlorine and oxygen Whether it decomposes explosively or not depends on concentration. H2O2 will decompose explosively at high conenctrations, otherwise it will passively decompose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted December 23, 2004 Share Posted December 23, 2004 "i would say you have aqueous chlorine dioxide" I would say that you have a solution of probably somewhere near 50% ClO2(aq). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redrang604 Posted December 23, 2004 Author Share Posted December 23, 2004 actually i used a strip of cobalt chloride to test for water it came up negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 hmm would there be a way to test what % of ClO2 we have? also would there be a way to increase the % of ClO2 that we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 does anybody else here think it's a bad idea for amateurs to mix random chemicals? dude. get some experience and THEN go back to chlorine dioxide someday maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caustic Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 does anybody else here think it's a bad idea for amateurs to mix random chemicals? dude. get some experience and THEN go back to chlorine dioxide someday maybe I believe that mixing chemicals is a good way for amateurs to gain valuable knowledge and experience that cant be gained from a merc index. Redrang604 and Nave may be working with hazardous chemicals but its not like theyre doing anything stupid. They are pretty sure that they have ClO2 and have researched it. Just follow your basic safety procedures and use common sense. I say keep up the good work and keep us posted with anything else you discover. easily detonated by sunlight, heat, contact with mercury or carbon monoxide Hey i have an idea, drop a little Hg into it (from a distance) and see what happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 I believe that mixing chemicals is a good way for amateurs to gain valuable knowledge and experience that cant be gained from a merc index. Redrang604 and Nave may be working with hazardous chemicals but its not like theyre doing anything stupid. They are pretty sure that they have ClO2 and have researched it. Just follow your basic safety procedures and use common sense. you obviously didn't read their first posts. they came onto this forum saying that they snuck into their school lab and mixed sulfuric acid and sodium chlorate, just for the hell of it. they had no idea what the product would be, and appeared to know little even about their reactants. that's not smart chemistry. i myself am very much in support of experimentalism but advocate INTELLIGENT application. i had a really dangerous encounter with H2S, SO2 and Br2 not too long ago due to a combination of negligence in a slight error in calculation of concentration and impurity in my reagents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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