Some of my thoughts on things

[Ruphustea]

My main thought, the Bible is a physics book and its freaky.........

 

 

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.² Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

 

Two heavens= draw a line above and below the centerline drawn representing the "earth"

 

Waters= top and bottom energy

 

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. ⁴ God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. ⁵ God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day

 

Light=energy of light

Dark=dark energy dark matter

 

And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” ⁷ So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. ⁸ God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

 

Vault or Sky=event horizons for the atomic and the galactic speed of light

 

I drew these as two circles between the "heaven" lines but touching each other in the middle then cut it each circle again down the middle from heaven line to heaven line. You should now have two circles touching each other at their tangents and touching the heaven lines at the top and bottom tangents with a line connecting these points and a line down the middle by the earth line. The circle have 4 quarters.

 

separated the water under the vault from the water above it=separate light and dark energy

 

Color the quarters black yellow black yellow but the two quarters facing each other must be opposite

 

And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.¹⁰ God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

 

Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.”

 

This is easier to explain than draw. This is a twist in the circle arcs in other words if you take your pencil and start at the top of the circle and go down the arc toward the center it doesn't keep going around its arc it goes down a loops back up the other circle's arc. Top stay on top and bottom on the bottom.

 

dry ground “land"= inside the loop

 

the gathered waters he called “seas"= the loop

 

¹¹ Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so.¹² The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.¹³ And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

 

Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.=where the two energies twist there is pressure and particles can form and build. These particles can also produce particles like themselves. ie. electrons to positrons.

 

¹⁴ And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, ¹⁵ and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. ¹⁶ God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. ¹⁷ God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, ¹⁸ to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. ¹⁹ And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

 

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,= again these are event horizons

 

God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night.=well we must redraw it this time one circle is smaller

 

Starting to look like DNA.....I gotta go to work, I will post more if there is some interest.

[swansont]

The Bible as a physic book would make it one of the worst physics books ever. No rigor. You should have higher standards for your physics books.

[John Cuthber]

The Bible contradicts itself: physics doesn't.

Therefore, the Bible is not a physics book.

[Ruphustea]

How would you explain and describe everything you know about physics to early man that is just learning lanuage and writing? E=mc2? He'd wipe his a$$ with that tidbit you gave him. You would describe is as best you could with ways he understood. And you would make him fear you so the stuff you said wouldn't be forgotten and passed on, just like your mom said about touching fire. There are two interpretations to the bible, the litteral and the encrypted. Adam is a neutron Eve is a proton. The snake only interacts with Eve. The snake is an electron, I'm typing this from my phone so I don't have a quote but the Bible says about the snake that he will hit your head and you will strike his heel. The nucleus around faster than the electron. Look how a snake coils like the electric field of an electron.

[ydoaPs]

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them"-Matthew 4:8

 

 

Yeah, that's some good physics right there! Everyone loves a flat Earth.

[John Cuthber]

How would you explain and describe everything you know about physics to early man that is just learning lanuage and writing? E=mc2? He'd wipe his a$$ with that tidbit you gave him. You would describe is as best you could with ways he understood. And you would make him fear you so the stuff you said wouldn't be forgotten and passed on, just like your mom said about touching fire. There are two interpretations to the bible, the litteral and the encrypted. Adam is a neutron Eve is a proton. The snake only interacts with Eve. The snake is an electron, I'm typing this from my phone so I don't have a quote but the Bible says about the snake that he will hit your head and you will strike his heel. The nucleus around faster than the electron. Look how a snake coils like the electric field of an electron.

.

Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter because man (in his guise as a neutron) only has a half life of about 15 min so we will all have vanished by this time tomorrow.

 

You seem to have missed out a step or two.

Firstly, why would anyone have tried to explain modern physics to a cave man?

What would have been the point.

Secondly, as far as I understand it, there is no significant biological difference between the people from, say, 6000 years ago and those born today.

If I can take a modern child and explain physics to them (and I can) then I could have taken a child from Christ's time and explained it to them.

 

So, at best, the Bible is a bad textbook that says things that simply are not true (It's no better with biology since it thinks bats are birds) and which was aimed at a bunch of people who, if it had been explained properly (and you would think God would be able to do that) would have understood it, but probably not been able to make any use of it (because their technology wan't up to it).

 

I strongly urge you not to waste any more time on this idea.

[Ruphustea]

What is c^2 on a graph? An excedingly high mountain?

 

Yes I agree there is no biological difference. But if you just gave them a computer how many would understand it? Would the computer survive or just its description? How many understand it and can build one now for that matter? Certain people can understand physics now but many more cannot. And none of us understands every bit of everything. And I didn't say we were nuetrons I said Adam should be viewed as one. He was made in their likeness. I belive that means God a pair of black holes in orbit or a star and black hole in orbit and we are the part that's getting "sucked" off the star going to God at rest, the black hole. If you were trying to build human DNA where would you start? Eventually you get a DNA stran that's stable but with 1 chromosone. How do you make it become unstable so there is varience in the way DNA makes itself? You send the beast! Polonium 216. 6*6*6. Wiki it is uniquein structure and effects RNA and its part of our everyday lives.

[John Cuthber]

Well done on missing the point there.

Just giving them a computer wouldn't help them (there's nowhere to plug it in).

But I could explain physics to a child from 6000 years ago just the same way as i could explain it to a modern child.

 

If all else fails, remember that the bible teaches you that you shouldn't try to understand things.

Proverbs 3:5

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your understanding.

You see, God doesn't want you to understand things.

 

If that doesn't persuade you to abandon your search for physics in the Bible fair enough: but it won't be meaningful until you can make a testable (almost certainly numerical) prediction based on the Bible which can be verified by experiment.

Get back to us when you have sorted that one out.

[Arete]

Also - it appears from your bible quotes the bible suggests that plants not only evolved, but diverged into gymnosperms and angiosperms a day before the sun did.

A) Given the oldest known flowering plant is from a generous ~250 million years ago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowering_plant, and our best estimate of the age of the sun is approximately 4.6 billion years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun;

B) Autotrophic organisms such as pants require sunlight to live;

There appears to be a glaring deficiency in the bible as a literal description of reality in general.

[Ruphustea]

You can explain everything that happens in the field of physics to any child, you sir have a gift. I don't have nearly the knowledge you do and I am not saying I do. If I was to show any correlation to a experiment and the bible surely you would think its a coincidence and I would think its evidence. One of three thing is for sure, you're right, I'm right, or we are both wrong. I do not know how to decode the Bible completely, but I am putting this out there in case someone else would like to help. Your imput is just as helpful as others.

 

Again plants and trees bearing fruit are not actuall plants. They are the basic building blocks, the most basic particles. You can have a Sun without particles. You can't have a day without the Sun either so obviously a day does not mean 24 hours. We must think of God's relative time in the creation not ours.

[Arete]

Again plants and trees bearing fruit are not actuall plants. They are the basic building blocks, the most basic particles. You can have a Sun without particles. You can't have a day without the Sun either so obviously a day does not mean 24 hours. We must think of God's relative time in the creation not ours.

 

Sure, and the label on the antifreeze that says "poison" really means "mix with vodka to make a delicious cocktail". You can't interpret an explicit statement to mean something competely different to what it actually says and subsequently fit your model, and not wind up with a completely arbitrary, "just so" model with zero value.

 

The point was not to make light of the time period, but to demonstrate that event A had to happen before event B, contrary to the sequence presented in the bible.

[Phi for All]

This seems more akin to pattern recognition, which humans are very, very good at, and will sometimes force the issue when no pattern actually exists. Some see a man in the moon, others see huge figures in the night sky drawn by the stars, and you're cherry-picking things from the Bible that seem to relate to modern physics. Our desire for an order and meaning to things, to tie seemingly matching things together, is extremely pervasive.

[Ruphustea]

Yes Phi thank you. I am aware of this and I am doing my best not to read more into it than maybe there. Certainly there have been countless others "decoding" the bible. But I haven't heard any like what I'm saying, not that I've been looking either. Even the most basic wave or particle came from something, and even the bible says God has a God. I'm sure God comtemplated his creation as well and that was his best answer!

 

I didn't think much of the fairytale stories that make up the bible. They didn't make much sense. But I had an wow moment thinking about how energy density decreases and lenghts get long. This makes time tick away faster toward infinity and density of energy go toward 0. But there are no infinities in reality only in math. So I drew out x^2 and 1/x^2 and we know they cross at 1. So how do we change the curve after 1? Twist it, just like the electromagnetic wave twists. Well that buys a little bit of time but they still go to 0 and infinity. So then I thought about scaling time and density and having one graph stop and another larger scaled graph start next to it and redo the process on this graph. Well it looked like a helix. So I wikied DNA. Well it has a short end and a long end a 3 and a 5. Its made of protiens and antiprotiens. Well that sounds familiar. For whatever reason I went to genisis and it says the same thing about the universe a short end and a long end.

[Dekan]

The Old Testament account of creation seems quite coherent and logical. It describes exactly the way one might expect a rational God to operate. It makes sense.

 

So why do some people reject it? Consider this:

 

Modern Physics books require us to accept, and believe in, all kind of absurdities. Like a particle going through two different slits at the same time. Or a cat being simultaneously alive and dead. Or a space-traveller going away for 40 years, and coming back only 1 year older.

 

Doesn't the sheer ludicrousness, the irrationality of such beliefs, exceed anything in the Bible?

Edited January 7, 2013 by Dekan

[Arete]

The Old Testament account of creation seems quite coherent and logical. It describes exactly the way one might expect a rational God to operate. It makes sense.

 

This is incorrect. Gesis describes a series of events in an incoherent chronological order:

• In Genesis 1:1, the earth and "heaven" are created together "in the beginning," whereas according to current estimates, the earth and universe are about 4.6 and 13.7 billion years old, respectively.
• In Genesis, the earth is created (1:1) before light (1:3), sun and stars (1:16); birds and whales (1:21) before reptiles and insects (1:24); and flowering plants (1:11) before any animals (1:20). The order of events known from science is in each case just the opposite.
• God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19).
• Plants are made on the third day before there was a sun to drive their photosynthetic processes (1:14-19).
• "The greater light [the sun] to rule the day, and the lesser light [the moon] to rule the night." But the moon is not a light; it only reflects light from the sun.

etc.

 

and the second chapter of Genesis contradicts the first:

• In chapter 1 plants are created on the third day before humans are created on the sixth. But in chapter 2 the order is reversed.
• In the first creation story, God makes humans (male and female) after the other animals; in the second, God makes a man first, then the other animals, and then a woman.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[Ruphustea]

Well time dilation is proven. But not when Eistien made a theory predicting it. I feel very strongly that there is a great deal of knowledge of physics in the Bible and Einstien did believe in God, perhaps he got some inspiration for the Bible, I don't know.

 

Arete again he must create spacetime first that is his first creation. Its heavenS not heaven and earth is between them. Earth and heavens are part of spacetime in DNA earth is the backbone up the middle the heavens are the edges. The skys or vaults are the "ribs" of the DNA. This is what I think its saying. The land is the twists of spacetime, the rubber sheet if you like that. Things are held in these twists the sheet doesn't sag because of gravity. Gravity is a function of the sheet twisted around it and pulled tight all the time. It funnels things towards the mass in the twist.

[John Cuthber]

You can explain everything that happens in the field of physics to any child, you sir have a gift. I don't have nearly the knowledge you do and I am not saying I do. If I was to show any correlation to a experiment and the bible surely you would think its a coincidence and I would think its evidence. One of three thing is for sure, you're right, I'm right, or we are both wrong. I do not know how to decode the Bible completely, but I am putting this out there in case someone else would like to help. Your imput is just as helpful as others.

 

Again plants and trees bearing fruit are not actuall plants. They are the basic building blocks, the most basic particles. You can have a Sun without particles. You can't have a day without the Sun either so obviously a day does not mean 24 hours. We must think of God's relative time in the creation not ours.

The point is not how well I could explain it, but that I could make a much better job of it than God has if He wrote the Bible as a textbook.

 

 

Why did God write a book that's inconsistent with itself and science and also deliberately cryptic?

 

 

1 I feel very strongly that there is a great deal of knowledge of physics in the Bible

Earth and heavens are part of spacetime in DNA earth is the backbone up the middle the heavens are the edges. The skys or vaults are the "ribs" of the DNA.

2 This is what I think its saying.

1 Reality doesn't care what you feel or how strongly you feel it.

2 You are the only one who thinks that way.

[Ruphustea]

Look at the boson particle. There is a theorectical image on the web of the quarks coming out of a ball of nothing. Interesting how these quarks are predicted to be emitted in a conical shape a spinning helix with a small end and a big end.

[Arete]

I feel very strongly that there is a great deal of knowledge of physics in the Bible and Einstien did believe in God

Well not in the God of the bible:

 

• “I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.” Albert Einstein, upon being asked if he believed in God by Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the Institutional Synagogue, New York, April 24, 1921, published in the New York Times, April 25, 1929
• “I do not believe in immortality of the individual, and I consider ethics to be an exclusively human concern with no superhuman authority behind it.”Albert Einstein, letter to a Baptist pastor in 1953;
• “It is quite possible that we can do greater things than Jesus, for what is written in the Bible about him is poetically embellished.”Albert Einstein; quoted in W. I. Hermanns, "A Talk with Einstein," October 1943,
• “I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own — a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.”Albert Einstein, quoted in The New York Times obituary, April 19, 1955;
• “Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place is determined by laws of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this reason, a research scientist will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a prayer, i.e. by a wish addressed to a supernatural Being.”Albert Einstein in response to a child who had written him in 1936 and asked if scientists pray;
• “The idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I am unable to take seriously.”Albert Einstein, letter to Hoffman and Dukas, 1946;
• “For science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be, and outside of its domain value judgments of all kinds remain necessary. Religion, on the other hand, deals only with evaluations of human thought and action: it cannot justifiably speak of facts and relationships between facts.”Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, Westport, Connecticut: Greenwood Press, 1970, p. 25.

http://www.stephenja...s_einstein.html

 

 

Arete again he must create spacetime first that is his first creation.

 

Again, if you choose to intepret words competely differently to how they are written in order to support a pre-existing hypothesis, you wind up with an arbitrary, ad hoc set of cherry picked explanations which don't actually fit the model at all when viewed objectively.

Edited January 7, 2013 by Arete

[John Cuthber]

1 Look at the boson particle.

2 There is a theorectical image on the web of the quarks coming out of a ball of nothing.

3 Interesting how these quarks are predicted to be emitted in a conical shape a spinning helix with a small end and a big end.

1 which one? and how?

2 You do realise that isn't a real picture: it's just an artist's impression?

3 No it isn't.

If it were real then it might be interesting. A different artist would have drawn something else and it would have been just as right or just as wrong.

[Ruphustea]

I have no idea why its written like it is. The bible isn't accually written by God but by men that interpret what they visioned and dreamed. Perhaps its this way because of the danger of knowing everything. And we had to mature enough that we wouldn't destroy everything. Yes the bible as a physics book seems crazy and that's my problem. Would you post a link to some of your thoughts on how everything works? I would like to read them.

 

Point taken as I said the boson is theorectical and basing a theory on a theroy isn't good science. What of the rest I've said, would you rather discuss any of that?

[John Cuthber]

Bosons are real. Light, for example, consists of photons which are bosons, so are the carbon nuclei in your body: it's just that you cant draw pretty pictures of them.

I could try to explain how things work, but there's a lot of it and others put the point across better.

 

I suggest you start with any reputable science text book.

Of course, you could just look at the Bible again and spot all the errors in it- that would prove that it is not and can never be a good textbook (of physics or of anything else).

 

In any case, if you still make errors like saying "the boson is theorectical" it tells me that you don't know enough about science to make valid comparisons between the Bible and the real world.

[Arete]

basing a theory on a theroy isn't good science.

 

 

Err, that's precisely how scientific advances work. Building a speculation based on previous unsupported speculations bad science. So is ad hoc-ery (i.e. starting with a conclusion, and attempting to find evidence to support that conclusion, as opposed to starting with evidence, and then generating a conclusion which is supported by that evidence). The entire premise of trying to interpet the bible as somehow being a description of physics is by its very nature, ad hoc.

 

e.g.

 

I didn't think much of the fairytale stories that make up the bible. They didn't make much sense. But I had an wow moment thinking about how energy density decreases and lenghts get long. This makes time tick away faster toward infinity and density of energy go toward 0. But there are no infinities in reality only in math. So I drew out x^2 and 1/x^2 and we know they cross at 1. So how do we change the curve after 1? Twist it, just like the electromagnetic wave twists. Well that buys a little bit of time but they still go to 0 and infinity. So then I thought about scaling time and density and having one graph stop and another larger scaled graph start next to it and redo the process on this graph. Well it looked like a helix. So I wikied DNA. Well it has a short end and a long end a 3 and a 5. Its made of protiens and antiprotiens. Well that sounds familiar. For whatever reason I went to genisis and it says the same thing about the universe a short end and a long end.

 

This is a series of illusory correlations and false associations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_correlation

 

e.g. 3' and 5' prime ends of a DNA strand are simply naming conventions. Deoxyribose sugars are arranged in a ring. http://protist.biology.washington.edu/fingerprint/elementa.html

Edited January 7, 2013 by Arete

[Ruphustea]

The shape of the boson emissions are theoretical. Just as you stated pictures are a representation. I have read many things over the years. Don't you ever think outside the box, theorize about how everything works? I don't think the boson is the basic particle. The EM wave makes everything including the boson. I am not alone in this thought.

 

Yes one ring of 3 and one of 5. These rings have diameters right? So one is bigger than the other.

 

The DNA part may be illusionary but scaling density and speed is not.

[Arete]

That is incorrect. Deoxyribose rings are 5' at both ends of a nucleotide. The 3' and 5' convention just describes where the nucleic acid binds to the ring, describing the directionality of the DNA strand.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directionality_%28molecular_biology%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deoxyribose

 

Edited January 7, 2013 by Arete