Medicinal Marijuana

[jdurg]

Okay, so the money spent on law enforcement and the trials and imprisonment of marijuana offenders isn't spent by the government, but appears out of thin air? The oil and pharmaceutical supplies aren't purchased from foreign countries, but are just given to us out of the kindness of their hearts? If anything, it creates a very NEGATIVE cashflow for the USA because they have to spend all this money trying to maintain it as an illegal drug. Marijuana was made illegal for a reason, even if it was a racist reason. (A quick search in a legal library will show that marijuana was first made illegal because the government didn't want the Mexican immigrants using the stuff and becoming 'poor quality workers').

 

The oil industry will always be involved in a modern economy. There are far too many useful chemicals and compounds that are derived from fossil fuels, and there is no such thing as a 100% clean and green energy source. It just cannot happen no matter how hard people pray for it. There may be cleaner alternatives, but for every alternative you can think of there is at least one group who will protest it for one reason or another. Suddenly making pot legal will not solve all the problems in the world. I have no problem with the medicinal, or hell even the recreational, use of marijuana. I think it is an amazing plant that has a lot of different uses that we just haven't tapped into yet. However, I also know the downside of the plant and its usage, and what troubles it can cause. As a former/semi-user myself, if I went and said that my use of marijuana had no effect on me I'd be a complete and utter lier. Emotionally I am detached from just about everyone and everything in my life. I have to work much harder to keep my focus on things and make sure that I am doing what I am supposed to do. I quite using marijuana on a routine basis over three years ago now, and only on rare occasions do I still use it. Still, I will never forget how it did affect me and what dangers it can bring. Sadly, I don't think our society is smart enough to be able to use the drug responsibly without causing undue harm on others which in the long run will cost all of us. I think alcohol is a far worse substance, but there is no way it will ever be made 'illegal'. I personally would abstain from voting on whether or not to make marijuana completely legal unless numerous Phase 1 through Phase IV clinical trials were performed on the drug in order to confirm the short and long term effects of this chemical.

[SNAVEZNAD]

i think maurijuana should be completely legalized and available anywhere without a presciption because:

 

1. it's not a bad drug

2. alcohol and tobacco are far worse for you in every aspect

3. it's fun

4. it's never killed anyone

5. the only reason it's against the law is to keep our prisons packed for the profit of a few dummies

6. the stuff you get from your drug dealer might be tainted with other crap' date=' legalizing it would make it safer.

7. only nimrods think otherwise, and are brainwashed to be that way

 

Yes, I smoke pot occasionally, and I don't give a damn if it's illegal or not.[/quote']

agreed, marijuana has never killed anyone, but genetically altered pot (aka skunk) use in teenagers is proven to increase the risk of schizophrenia and other psychological problems. however, i've been told that this is only because it alters the development of the brain. so when you've finished being a teenager, it shouldnt do any harm

[MattC]

hahahaha.

 

2. alcohol and tobacco are far worse for you in every aspect

wrong

 

3. it's fun

so is shooting streetlights

 

 

5. the only reason it's against the law is to keep our prisons packed for the profit of a few dummies

remind me again... who profits from the prisons being full?

 

 

(pro legalization' date=' btw)[/quote']

 

I can't think of any way in which either alcohol or tobacco are better than weed. Can you list one? It hasn't been shown to have the same carcinogenic effects, liver toxification effects, or addictiveness of either alcohol or tobacco ... so how is it worse?

 

Shooting streetlights is destructive - it wastes public money, leaves shards of glass on the street for children to cut themselves on, and is noisy. Smoking a joint in the privacy of one's own home does not.

 

Prisons are not a public venture these days - they are a private one. Companies, not just the government, run prisons, and they stand to profit quite a bit from a large number of inmates making sellable products.

 

For the record, I do not smoke, though I have. I have smoked for a two year period, then quit for one full year, without any particular reason and without any withdrawal symptoms. In fact, stopping smoking came as naturally as switching from one brand of OJ to another - without effort, or thought. It was just what was most convienent, and what I wanted. After the year, I smoked some, on and off. During this time I have been a good student, able to get good grades in college, hold up a high paying job (high paying for a college student whose peers are earning approximately half the hourly wages; in the grand scheme of things, the pay is not all that great, of course. But I am a student, not a professional) doing network and system administration for a UC.

 

During the periods I have smoked, I have not gotten sick as much as the average person (not that this is any different from when I don't smoke - as a vegan who exercises well, eats well, and rests well, my immune system is doing quite well).

 

Naturally I am all for legalisation of weed (and illegalisation of tobacco ... I hate it! Smoke it if you must, people, but don't think you aren't pissing the hell out of everyone who has to smell that foul stench. Do it away from other people, other homes ...)

[Conceptual]

About a year ago I had an operation and the surgeon gave me oxycontin for pain. It worked great for the pain but gave me nausia. A friend gave me a little marijuana and a few hits got rid of the nausia. I don't smoke and hadn't smoked in a decade. I was feeling good after that. I can see how it might make cancer patient's life a little more comfortable especially with the radioactive hazardous legal stuff they pump them up with.

 

The way I look at it is that we, as a culture, we would benefit from an objective scale of drug hazard. If marijuana is the illegal zero point, that is fine, but everything that has more net negative effect and/or creates more deaths, etc., than this zero point, should also be illegal. There are a lot of legal drugs that have mortality rates and which can cause negative side effects, liver damage, etc.. If these drugs, instead are chosen for the legal zero point, than anything less hazardous should also be legal. That seems fair and objective science. I am being naive on purpose, because the rules will never be based on objectivity.

[Bio-Hazard]

We should just legalize it all together. However, enforce that any drug that can become addictive be thrown away. Alcohol.. eh.. it's for socializing.. I can't see straight up junkies who have their eyes rolling into the back of their head socializing..

 

So don't enforce heroine. I think we should ban cigarettes and replace them with weed minus the nicotine.

[RedAlert]

I consider the effects beneficial to my mind and spirit. It helps me meditate and helps me see our universe from a different and a more peaceful perspective.

 

Face it, your STONED.

[ecoli]

I think we should ban cigarettes and replace them with weed minus the nicotine.

 

I disagree... you ban cigarettes and the companies will "destroy" weed, they'll probably put tar and other junk in their too. Plus, its so cheap to grow, it probably wouldn't too profitable... well, I guess it depends how many people would buy it.

 

=mattd][/b]I consider the effects beneficial to my mind and spirit. It helps me meditate and helps me see our universe from a different and a more peaceful perspective.

 

And you've probably never seen yourself when your stoned either. I've been around plenty of people while'st drunk and/or stoned and I feel sorry for them. Its amazing the stupid shit people say and do while under the influence. Being with people who have little control over what they say or do (this is what weed does) is actually frightening. People who I wouldn't normally would be fine around, actually have made me question my well-being. They act (not everyone and not always) as if they could become physically violent without too much proding.

[kleinwolf]

I don't know the effect on long time (psychiatrically e.g.).

 

(BTW why bees do not make honey out of them, this could indicate a high toxicity)

 

But in fact do we speak of sativa or sativa indica (and even polyploïde version which can be even stronger)

 

In fact I'm seeking for a medicine against long term effect that could arise in some cases (sativa means "wild", humans retracting from the world and even severe schizophrenia).

 

I read in some newspapers that hindustani people could commercialize a medicine made out of bovine urine (this animal were sacred in those regions), but I don't know if this has something to do with cannabis use.

Edited April 3, 2009 by kleinwolf

[mooeypoo]

I don't know the effect on long time (psychiatrically e.g.).

 

(BTW why bees do not make honey out of them, this could indicate a high toxicity)

 

But in fact do we speak of sativa or sativa indica (and even polyploïde version which can be even stronger)

 

In fact I'm seeking for a medicine against long term effect that could arise in some cases (sativa means "wild", humans retracting from the world and even severe schizophrenia).

 

I read in some newspapers that hindustani people could commercialize a medicine made out of bovine urine (this animal were sacred in those regions), but I don't know if this has something to do with cannabis use.

What the heck are you on about? What does this have to do with marijuana? You're looking for a medicine for the long time effects of what, Marijuana?

 

Can you please be a bit more clear in your trail of thought, it's very unclear what you mean in this post or what your question is. Or even if it was worth resurrecting a 4 year old thread.

[kleinwolf]

Yes, people having used marijuana can have several symptoms (permanent weakness, energy loss, memory loss). Is there any treatment (regimes, aso)

[mooeypoo]

Yes, people having used marijuana can have several symptoms (permanent weakness, energy loss, memory loss).

As far as I knew, to stop having side-effects from marijuana you just need to stop having marijuana, and they go away after a little while. Specifically in the amounts that we're talking about in this thread (for medicinal purposes).

 

Can you give references for these?

[Mr Skeptic]

Some drugs can be stored in adipose tissue for a long time. Does THC do this?

[zule]

Some drugs can be stored in adipose tissue for a long time. Does THC do this?

 

 

No, THC is completely eliminated from your body in about a week.

The only place you can detect it for a long time is in your hair, but your hair is dead, the THC doesn't go back to your blood from there.

[Royston]

Some drugs can be stored in adipose tissue for a long time. Does THC do this?

 

Yes, it's stored in adipose tissue (fat) for up to a couple of months, and trace amounts will pass into the blood the metabolites of THC however, will stay in the hair for many months, hence hair drug testing.

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Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

No, THC is completely eliminated from your body in about a week.

The only place you can detect it for a long time is in your hair, but your hair is dead, the THC doesn't go back to your blood from there.

 

Zule beat me to it, I've read that THC is stored in fat for much longer than a week, do you have a reference for that at all ?

[zule]

Zule beat me to it, I've read that THC is stored in fat for much longer than a week, do you have a reference for that at all ?

 

I don’t actually have any reference. My post came from a course I took about biochemistry of drugs. But now, I have gone over my notes from that course and I have read that if the use of marihuana is occasional, the THC is eliminated in a week, but in chronic users it can accumulate in adipose for about two months. So, you are right.

 

I have tried to look for any reference in the pubmed but I only find time limits of detection, which depend on the measurement method.

 

Anyway, two months is not a long time for consider withdrawing the marihuana a good treatment to figh against the problems it could cause in certain people, not needing any additional one.

[Moontanman]

I am a chronic pain patient. Several collapsed vertebrae in my neck have caused me more pain in the last twelve years than I can describe. I spent ten years taking strong opiates for the pain and lost almost ten years of my life. I remember very little of those ten years other than the opiates didn't work as they were supposed to and i almost died from their effects. I found that MJ takes the edge off the pain and make it more tolerable with little or no side effects. MJ doesn't stop working after a few weeks of use, it doesn't make the pain go away, nothing will do that, but it allows it to be tolerable and allows me to live my life. My doctor told me if he found MJ in my urine tests he would turn me over the authorities and have my benefits stopped and leave me destitute. So i quit, but I refused to go back on opiates. Now I hurt all the time, it keeps me from being active. keeps me from having a life but at least I'm conscious all the time.

 

MJ doesn't kill people, there is no OD level for MJ. It's not physically addictive. Opiate based pain relievers kill people every day and are extremely addictive sometimes even when taken according to a doctors prescriptions. Both alcohol and tobaccos can kill you from over does, children are especially vulnerable to tobacco poisoning. Alcohol poisoning happens all the time hospitals treat people fro it every day, some don't make it. I cannot conceive of a reason why I should have to endure extreme pain most all the time simply due to MJ being something the government cannot allow to be legal simply because they cannot admit to being wrong about it. Is it good fro you, no I'm sure it isn't, is it the demon weed the gov says it is, Absolutely not. If you believe all the propaganda from the government then i cannot reach you but think about the people who could benefit from medicinal MJ next time you are asked to vote or give your opinion before you simply repeat what you have been told to think.

[mooeypoo]

There's no argument Marijuana is not as addictive or as damaging as alcohol or as Opiate based pain relievers, but saying it is completely without side effects, or that it is absolutely not addictive is plain wrong.

 

Here's a good reference on this for starters: http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg13-14.html

 

Actual scientific research shows that regular use of Marijana DOES have long term effects, depending on the amount and time it is used.

 

If you claim otherwise, moontanman, please show references. You make scientific claims without giving the proper reference, and it seems that the proper references are against you on this one.

 

Again, don''t fall into the slippery slope fallacy -- the fact that Marijuana has long term effect and that it can be addictive does not mean it is AS ADDICTIVE or AS DAMAGING than other drugs or pills, and the other way around: The fact Marijuana isn't as bad as other pills does not mean it doesn't have any side effect or that it is entirely not addictive.

 

In short, claims are worthless without proper references.

 

~moo

[Moontanman]

There's no argument Marijuana is not as addictive or as damaging as alcohol or as Opiate based pain relievers, but saying it is completely without side effects, or that it is absolutely not addictive is plain wrong.

 

Here's a good reference on this for starters: http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/teenpg13-14.html

 

Actual scientific research shows that regular use of Marijana DOES have long term effects, depending on the amount and time it is used.

 

If you claim otherwise, moontanman, please show references. You make scientific claims without giving the proper reference, and it seems that the proper references are against you on this one.

 

I never claimed it was harmless or not physiologically addictive, I know physical addiction, I took oxycontin for three years, I know what cold turkey means, i know what cravings are, MJ does not give you those things it is not addictive in any significant way, at least compared to oxycontin or MS contin or methadone. All of which were prescribed for my pain and were so addictive i honestly wonder how any physician could prescribe such things to any one.

 

Again, don''t fall into the slippery slope fallacy -- the fact that Marijuana has long term effect and that it can be addictive does not mean it is AS ADDICTIVE or AS DAMAGING than other drugs or pills, and the other way around: The fact Marijuana isn't as bad as other pills does not mean it doesn't have any side effect or that it is entirely not addictive.

 

No one has claimed this that I've seen but I have experienced real addiction, on a scale of one to ten with oxycontin at a 10 MJ would be .01 if that. Virtually everything has side effects what is needed is to decide if the side effect warrant it not being available as medicine. I think the contention that is is harmful enough warrant being illegal is nothing but a gross lie propagated by people who simply cannot allow anyone else to do anything they disapprove of.

 

 

In short, claims are worthless without proper references.

 

~moo

 

Have you pointed this out to all the people with the BS claims about how terrible MJ is?

[mooeypoo]

I never claimed it was harmless or not physiologically addictive, I know physical addiction, I took oxycontin for three years, I know what cold turkey means, i know what cravings are, MJ does not give you those things it is not addictive in any significant way, at least compared to oxycontin or MS contin or methadone. All of which were prescribed for my pain and were so addictive i honestly wonder how any physician could prescribe such things to any one.

I just posted REFERENCES that state that Marijuana *IS* addictive and *DOES* have long term side effects.

 

The fact you claim otherwise is MEANINGLESS unless you counter my references with other references proving your claims.

 

Marijuana is not the same as oxycontin or methadone. It is, however, addictive in certain amounts. I gave out a link, I suggest you read it.

 

 

 

No one has claimed this that I've seen but I have experienced real addiction,

Well, personal experience is not scientific evidence, SPECIFICALLY not for addiction. There are too many variables that might've affected YOUR personal situation to make you an exception. That's why scientific RESEARCHES exist.

 

on a scale of one to ten with oxycontin at a 10 MJ would be .01 if that. Virtually everything has side effects what is needed is to decide if the side effect warrant it not being available as medicine. I think the contention that is is harmful enough warrant being illegal is nothing but a gross lie propagated by people who simply cannot allow anyone else to do anything they disapprove of.

Reference. This above paragraph is MEANINGLESS without references.

 

Have you pointed this out to all the people with the BS claims about how terrible MJ is?

Stop putting words in my mouth or in other people's mouths and straw-man the argument. I did NOT say Marijuana is terrible, and the argument in this thread was NOT about how terrible marijuana is. I just stated the facts that it is not completely without side effects or addictive properties, either.

 

Further -- two wrongs do not make a right. If anyone else posted stuff with no references, they're as wrong as you are.

 

I suggest you go over the rules of the forum, as well, and start reading the references posted to you as well as looking up references of your own. Personal opinion in the matter of actual fact is *not* valid.

 

~moo

[Moontanman]

Mooeypoo, I apologize, all I have is my personal experiences of what I've seen and what I've experienced. when you have been in excruciating pain for 12 years and all the doc offers you is terribly addictive dangerous drugs that can and do kill, than can and do drive people out of their minds with withdrawal, drugs that steal your life, keep you from being a part of the world and still don't' really do anything much for the pain after a few weeks of use, suggesting the data that say MJ is addictive is simply misleading to say the least. I've never seen anyone even come close to the cravings caused by tobacco much less opiates. I'll concede it is possible some rare individual has had some significant withdrawal symptoms from MJ but this suggestion the addiction of opiates is even similar to the addiction of MJ is disingenuous to say the least. I read your link, it said MJ was addictive, if you say that is the same as opiates being addictive then you simply don't understand what real addiction is. Real addiction is wanting to die and eventually being afraid you will live, writhing in horrible pain for days on end, being so sick you cannot take care of your self and no one else wants to get close to you for fear of all the mess. I've seen people in a tizzy about cigarettes, it's nothing compared to opiates and MJ isn't in the same universe. I am sorry I can't be more distant from the problem but I've smoked pot when I was younger for many years and when i quit it was nothing, a few days of being irritable at most. to keep pointing out that MJ is addictive is like pointing out falling from an airplane is falling and so is falling off a step stool. Both are falling but they are not similar in any way other than the direction you travel. I have never said MJ doesn't cause you harm but it's harm is not even close to alcohol or tobacco or even eating wrong. The link you posted is meant to scare little kids from smoking pot, it wasn't a comparison of pot to things like alcohol or even a fair assessment of the danger of of pot compared to anything else. Nearly the same things could have been said about sitting in the sun too much or eating fruits with pesticide residue which we all have done. How about this link?

 

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7305

 

Marijuana is far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco. Around 50,000 people die each year from alcohol poisoning. Similarly, more than 400,000 deaths each year are attributed to tobacco smoking. By comparison, marijuana is nontoxic and cannot cause death by overdose. According to the prestigious European medical journal, The Lancet, "The smoking of cannabis, even long-term, is not harmful to health. ... It would be reasonable to judge cannabis as less of a threat ... than alcohol or tobacco."

 

I'll stay out of this thread I am far too close to the problem obviously.

[iNow]

Pot is addictive in the same way pizza or exercise is addictive. It is important not to equivocate this type of addiction with that which comes with something like heroine or nicotine.

[mooeypoo]

I think we are arguing different things.

 

I don't argue with you that Marijuana is not even CLOSE to the other drugs.

I just argue that it does have some side effects.

 

That is not excluding your point, you just seem to try and insist that since the side effects are so much lower than the other drugs, they're almost nonexistent -- that wasn't the original question.

 

You're just mixing two different subjects here, so the discussion is on two different questions.

 

The question asked if Marijuana has side effects. The answer is yes, and the answer was accompanied with a reference that stated which side effects those were.

 

The question was not whether the side effects are equal or not to other drugs. That's irrelevant - people who choose to use marijuana or not (specifically for MEDICINAL use, which is what this thread is about) do not usually do the consideration of getting addicted to methadon or alcohol or tobbaco. The question is strictly about marijuana, and is related to the question of whether or not marijuana should be allowed to be used for medicinal purposes.

 

And the piont is that just like anything else, Marijuana is not PERFECT. When considering the question of whether or not it should be used for medicinal purposes, then *BOTH* its pros and cons should be weighed and a decision should be made by seeing BOTH these sides, not just a dreamworld representation that Marijuana is absolutely harmless. It's not harmless. It might be worth the side effects for medicinal use -- thats a valid argument -- but it's NOT perfectly harmless, and the discussion of comparison to other drugs doesn't make it harmless.

 

~moo

[Moontanman]

Mooeypoo, seriously, who has said it is harmless? which post?

[mooeypoo]

You didn't say it was harmless, you said it's not addictive (which isn't true, really.. I agree it's probably very SMALL of an effect, but it's an effect worth noting exists), and your presentation seemed to show it as harmless.

 

I apologize if I read too much between your lines, though, it just sounded like you're presenting things in comparison - and therefore as extremes.

 

Anyways, we're arguing different points here, as I've said. There's no doubt Marijuana isn't even close to the other drugs. But it is, according to research, addictive (in certain amounts), and it does have long term effects.

 

Are these worth it to use Marijuana for medicinal purposes? I *personally* think they are, because of the comparison to the alternative pain killers, but I would still like the people who are going to use it to know of those side effects and addictive possibilities are.

[coke]

subscribed?

 

I'm pretty sure you mean perscribed.