Fundamental Religious People

[Ceasium]

Hey guys,

 

it has been lately in the news that there has been a group of fundamentalistic muslims in the UK that has harassed people, and tries to lay on the Sharia on people. It is very obvious to me that fundamentalism is not only limited to muslims, but that there are radical jews and christians as well (and from many other religions). All this got me thinking, there are a couple of things I do not understand about fundamentalism (as an atheist) that I do not understand. I've tried googling this topic, but it came up with very little results.

 

First of all could someone explain to me why there are people that are so devouted to their religion, and why they even sacrifice their life for their religion?

 

Secondly, can someone explain to me how one can turn from a liberal theist into an fundamentalistic one?

 

And lastly how big is the chance that an fundamentalist theist changes his views and turns back into a mildly religious purpose?

 

- And could you yourself give your point of view on fundamentalism? I'm wondering what others think of orthodoxy

Edited January 30, 2013 by Ceasium

[Moontanman]

I'm not sure you are using the word orthodoxy correctly...

 

 

or·tho·dox·y

/ˈôrTHəˌdäksē/

Noun

1. Authorized or generally accepted theory, doctrine, or practice.
2. The quality of conforming to such theories, doctrines, or practices.

 

I think you are equating orthodoxy to fundamentalism...

[Ceasium]

Yes, I was refering to fundamentalism. I mistranslated the word, I'll edit my text.

[Moontanman]

Hey guys,

 

it has been lately in the news that there has been a group of fundamentalistic muslims in the UK that has harassed people, and tries to lay on the Sharia on people. It is very obvious to me that fundamentalism is not only limited to muslims, but that there are radical jews and christians as well (and from many other religions). All this got me thinking, there are a couple of things I do not understand about fundamentalism (as an atheist) that I do not understand. I've tried googling this topic, but it came up with very little results.

 

Fundamentalists are not limited to Abrahamic religions and in fact Hindus, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, all have their fundamentalist branches as do other religions. Fundamentalism is adhering to some basic principles, often religious, and sometimes to the point of ignoring reality...

 

First of all could someone explain to me why there are people that are so devouted to their religion, and why they even sacrifice their life for their religion?

 

I don't think anyone can accurately answer this question but often the religion promises that the person who sacrifices themselves automatically go to what ever version of a idyllic after life their religion teaches.

 

Secondly, can someone explain to me how one can turn from a liberal theist into an fundamentalistic one?

 

Generally due to influence exerted by people in a position of respect and power.

 

And lastly how big is the chance that an fundamentalist theist changes his views and turns back into a mildly religious purpose?

 

You are asking me to guess the motivations of another human being, always a fools errand.

 

- And could you yourself give your point of view on fundamentalism? I'm wondering what others think of orthodoxy

 

I think fundamentalists are a group desperate to deny reality because they think that wavering from their basic beliefs condemns them to hell or their religions equivalent...

 

Often they are people with little higher education and this makes them easily swayed by con artists proclaiming to know the real truth...

[Iota]

 

First of all could someone explain to me why there are people that are so devouted to their religion, and why they even sacrifice their life for their religion?

 

It stems from a person's need to believe in a creator in the first place -completely irrationally- because they do so despite there being no evidence for one ('then how did everything get here?' doesn't count as evidence).

They believe that by sacrificing themselves in this life they will be rewarded with a superior afterlife. They desperately devote their lives to whoever they think is god (out of the thousands of religions that have existed), and if they believe for whatever demented reason that they are serving their god by sacrificing themselves, and often in the process also killing others, why wouldn't they? There's nothing for them to lose, they've become inconvertible, irrational and radical.

 

 

Secondly, can someone explain to me how one can turn from a liberal theist into an fundamentalistic one?

 

No one can explain this, any number of things could cause this to happen. A lack of education and being brought up with a certain set of beliefs will almost certainly increase a person's susceptibility to become radicalised.

 

 

And lastly how big is the chance that an fundamentalist theist changes his views and turns back into a mildly religious purpose

 

Again, think about the questions you ask, do you really think anyone can answer you that? To derive the "chance" and therefore probability of 'someone' being converted between different intensities of theistic states is impossible. The average reasonably intelligent person can tell you the factors that MIGHT affect someone's decision to convert to a less radical theistic ideology.

 

Never mind my opinion on fundamentalism, I don't think religion benefits anyone. People should pay more attention to what we know is or is not true, and spend less time dwelling on purely faith-driven ideas.

[iNow]

First of all could someone explain to me why there are people that are so devouted to their religion, and why they even sacrifice their life for their religion?

The short answer is this. We evolved as pack animals, and for thousands of years religion has benefited from and improved upon its ability to exploit our natural tendency to align and agree with those around us. When those around us are fundamentalists, we're much more likely to be fundamentalists ourselves. In short, it's the environment in which we exist. I feel that the effect of our environment is only made worse when one assumes they are acting directly on gods instructions.

 

Our devotion and connection to the tribe helped us survive, regardless of what stories or morals were shared in that group. We are born with this tendency, and this tendency to adapt our own thoughts and feelings to more closely align with the pack around us is powerful. It is magnified by the way our brains form our own realities. We shape our perceptions of the universe in all of its magnificence within our minds, and each of us shape it a bit differently. When certain thoughts or rituals or beliefs are shared by others, our thoughts and beliefs take on greater importance and seem more valid. It is one thing to believe something for ourselves, but it is quite another to hold a belief that is shared by others. That makes it more important.

 

Add to that the belief that we are acting on gods instructions... that we are following direct mandates laid down by the most powerful being possible and there is no atrocity too heinous to commit. The idea of god is larger than the idea of community or society or morality. If god says we must do it, then nothing else matters. This is what fundamentalists are taught... That they are acting as the hands of some god.

 

To simplify, though... People are devoted to their religion because they were taught to do so. That's really all it is. They were taught to hold these thoughts dear. They were taught that god is expecting them to behave a certain way, and they were taught what those behaviors were. They were even punished for not being devoted to these instructions and punished for questioning them. With that as the foundation, they sacrifice their lives because they place belief in the afterlife and feel they are earning gods love for all eternity... The most valuable thing they could ever receive (based on what they've been taught and based on what they believe).

 

Secondly, can someone explain to me how one can turn from a liberal theist into an fundamentalistic one?

Poverty, anger, pain... Isolation in a community where fundamentalist teachings are all you hear... Life in an environment where you are not exposed to any alternative viewpoints or allowed to question commands and instructions... A loss of hope, a feeling of helplessness, a desire to be a part of something bigger and greater and grander... also, fear. These are all things that could turn someone into a fundamentalist.

And lastly how big is the chance that an fundamentalist theist changes his views and turns back into a mildly religious purpose?

I think it depends on the person, and also on how much interaction they have with nonfundamentalist people. We are shaped by our environments. If you alter the fundamentalists environment so they are exposed to different people and different thoughts and different ideas, that will tend to increase their chances of moving away from fundamentalism.

And could you yourself give your point of view on fundamentalism?

It reminds me that humans... despite all of our amazing technology and advancement and profound literature and thought... still have a very long way to go before we realize our full potential and become what we should be as a species. Edited January 31, 2013 by iNow

[Ceasium]

Thank you for enlightening me on this topic.

 

I've read some more and found some 'disturbing' things out. In my country of origin the church is sending priets to people who just moved, and try to convert them. They really jump in upon the fact that people have the need to belong to a group, and they offer one instantly. Besides this, the church contacts people in the more run down quarters and tries to convert them. These people have a lot of the characteristics that iNow told me about, and therefore are very easy prey.

 

The best we can do is to hope that someday people will recognize that they will be better of without fundamentalism. Let's hope that it happens fast