Social Consequences of a new Human Specie (by speciation, not massive murder)

[POLLITO110]

I've noted that many people that is extremelly gifted (like 180- 190 or 220), Often believes that is an elf an alien a devil... everything except an Homo Sapiens. When i was a child, in sometimes believed that i was a macaw or something, specially in front of a biologist to avoid getting a label that begins with the word "Homo". Anibody will doubt that a child with a lot of iq, is very different than others (unless for negligence reasons), the DSM is not valid for him, a normal personality test is not valid for him, a mainstream school should not be considered valid for him, an encephalogram will show a constant and hugue epilepsy attack if understod as a normal human brain, so it will also be not valid for him, the basal consumption of calories may not be the same as a normal human with same weight due to a more hungry brain ... there are a lot of differences.

 

Then there is evidence of fight for the resources (I'm unemployable and not considered as such by the social services, so i know what i'm saying, human resources professionals should ratificate), And a isolation in reproduction: Only fell really aroused by women with more than 170, but i detect them easily enough. furthermore, women with more than 170 claim to think more or less the same about men. On the other side, normal homo sapiens women would only go with me if they are very desperate. Then, since it's possible to bring 170+ women from another country if necessary (or the opposite movement), there is in fact reproductive isolation. You do not need to reccur to masive murder as someone said.

 

Then, once i saw in the tv, than thay they made a karyotipe of children with 150 or so, and found inversion in many chromosomes, i thing, that the most affected was the two (that was also responsible for mutating apes to humans). then there were 3 or four more, that luckily i think that are not viable to generate a live newborn with trisomy (like a 4 trisomy or so) . I assume that nobody told that they were facing a new specie of the homo genus (this would also be dangerously similar to the word homo-parental for example), because it may posibly be a taboo. But the truth is that when you mate a men for example with 200iq, with a woman with similar iq, the child will presumably have also a similar iq (cases like Justin Chapman aside).

 

I do not know if there is a serious experiment about that or if the experiment is secret.

 

Someone, found that neanderthals mixed with sapiens, and descendats are live nowadais, then, it's no longer required to be 100% genetically incompatible to be a different specie.

 

I suppose that since there is reproductive isolation, there will be a point where both species will reach 100% incompatibility.

 

Does someone know how much different you have to be in order to be considered a different genus than the homo genus?

 

And note that i'm not saying that an iq test will generate a new specie, but that a different specie will in fact, have a different intelligence (i'm not confusing specie with race). When scientists find a new extinct hominid specie one of their first questions is if they were intelligent or not.

Edited February 7, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Moontanman]

I've noted that many people that is extremelly gifted (like 180- 190 or 220), Often believes that is an elf an alien a devil... everything except an Homo Sapiens.I sometimes believe that i'm a macaw, specially in front a biologist to avoid getting a label that begins with the word "Homo". Anibody will doubt that a child with a lot of iq, is very different than others (unless for negligence reasons), the DSM is not valid for him, a normal personality test is not valid for him, a mainstream school should not be considered valid for him, an encephalogram will show a constant and hugue epilepsy attack if understod as a normal human brain, so it will also be not valid for him, the basal consumption of calories will not be the same as a normal human with same weight due to a more hungry brain ... there are a lot of differences.

 

Then there is evidence of fight for the resources (I'm unemployable and not considered as such by the social services, so i know what i'm saying), And a isolation in reproduction: Only fell really aroused by women with more than 170, but i detect them easily enough. furthermore, women with more than 170 claim to think more or less the same about men. On the other side, Homo sapiens women would only go with me if they are very desperate. Then, since it's possible to bring 170+ women from another country if necessary (or the opposite movement), there is in fact reproductive isolation. You do not need to reccur to masive murder as someone said.

 

Then, and theorically the most important, i saw in the tv, than thay they made a karyotipe of children with 150 or so, and they had inversion in many chromosomes, i thing, that the most affected was the two (that was also responsible for mutating apes to humans). then there were 3 or four more, that luckily are not viable to generate a live newborn with trisomy (like a 4 trisomy or so) . I assume that nobody told that they were facing a new specie of the homo genus (this would also be dangerously similar to the word homo-parental for example), because it may posibly be a taboo. But the truth is that when you mate a men for example with 200iq, with a woman with similar iq, the child will presumably have also a similar iq or bigger (cases like Justin Chapman aside).

 

Someone, found that neanderthals mixed with sapiens, and descendats are live since nowadais, then, it's no longer required to be 100% genetically incompatible to be a different specie. Does someone know how much different you have to be in order to be considered a different genus than the homo genus?

 

I suppose that since there is reproductive isolation, there will be a point where both species will reach 100% incompatibility.

 

 

having a high IQ would not make you a new species, nor will a high IQ make you reproductively isolated, being Homo sapiens has nothing to do with who you are attracted to sexually. Since the genus Homo includes neanderthals and quite a few other species I'm not sure what you mean by making you another genus"

 

 

Does someone know how much different you have to be in order to be considered a different genus than the homo genus?

 

 

well gorillas and orangutans are of another genus...

[POLLITO110]

 

having a high IQ would not make you a new species, nor will a high IQ make you reproductively isolated .

 

At the end of my post i told, that it isn't that a higher iq makes the specie, but being from a diferent specie also means that you have a different iq than the homo sapiens. If australopitechus could take an iq test, i'm sure that would have a very biased score, maybe 50 or so. I do not think that scores like 140 are biased enogh to reflect a diferent specie, i know many and they do not have the sense of being a different specie, but maybe from these people, evolved a new homo genre with 180 or 190 iq of average. These iq differences are usually reflected in the karyotype.

 

When you have an high iq and you can only go with women with an high iq, then you make way for the reproductive isolation. What happened until nowadays is that if you didn't find women of the same specie in your neghborgood, you hat to die single or try to commit hybridation with a normal homo sapiens women. But since you can know women online and the world has a lot of population, you can find a women in another country and this makes much easier to find a woman with a big iq. This is why speciation in humans it's now running faster than ever.

 

 

being Homo sapiens has nothing to do with who you are attracted to sexually

 

But a greath part of natural selection does. With this you do not need to spread your genes to all the mankind, you only have a specie with very few individuals that has to increase his population enough to prosper. There is also people that commited hybridation and claims to be very happy, but this tendency is decreasing.

Edited February 8, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Moontanman]

At the end of my post i told, that it isn't that a higher iq makes the specie, but being from a diferent specie also means that you have a different iq than the homo sapiens. If australopitechus could take an iq test, i'm sure that would have a very biased score, maybe 50 or so. I do not think that scores like 140 are biased enogh to reflect a diferent specie, i know many and they do not have the sense of being a different specie, but maybe from these people, evolved a new homo genre with 180 or 190 iq of average. These iq differences are usually reflected in the karyotype.

 

I don't think IQ can be used to suggest a new species...

 

When you have an high iq and you can only go with women with an high iq, then you make way for the reproductive isolation. What happened until nowadays is that if you didn't find women of the same specie in your neghborgood, you hat to die single or try to commit hybridation with a normal homo sapiens women. But since you can know women online and the world has a lot of population, you can find a women in another country and this makes much easier to find a woman with a big iq. This is why speciation in humans it's now running faster than ever.

 

Why would IQ cause reproductive isolation? I would have to see some evidence that speciation in humans is running faster than ever, in fact I would think it is actually slower since we are mixing our genes up far faster now than we did thousands of years ago so in fact we have less reproductive isolation not more. Do you really think IQ is a prerequisite for mating? Only smart people mate with other smart people?

 

But a greath part of natural selection does. With this you do not need to spread your genes to all the mankind, you only have a specie with very few individuals that has to increase his population enough to prosper. There is also people that commited hybridation and claims to be very happy, but this tendency is decreasing.

 

What on earth do you mean by this?

[Arete]

Speciation is a population process.

 

Divergent mate preference will only lead to speciation if the divergent selection pressure is strong enough to cause a sufficient break down of gene flow to allow for the accumulation of fixed differences between populations.

 

Taking your numbers to be IQ scores, the notion is flawed on many levels.

A) IQ is normalized. Therefore the average in a given test population is always 100. If you tested MENSA members the mean would be 100. If you test a group of mentally handicapped people, the mean is 100. They aren't globally applicable - even if your test group is large and broadly representative of the global human population, there will be variance between tests. IQ is also variable for an individual - you might score 110 one day and 96 the next if you are tired.

 

B) IQ tests generally have a standard deviation of 15. Using a standard Z table, the probability of a person having an IQ of 170 is 0.000002, or one in 500,000. I would seriously doubt that 1) a dispersed population that small would be able to maintain a significant level of genetic isolation as to become distinct and that 2) you or anyone else can "easily tell" another person is in the top 0.000002% of the population based on IQ. So, the whole concept of mate preference due to IQ driving diversification is implausible.

 

C) The human karyotype is fixed at 2n=46. Chromosomal rearrangements in humans can result in reduced fitness, and thus will be selected against. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_abnormalities . Changes in karyotype do not necessarily produce reproductive isolation e.g. mus musculus has karyotypes ranging from 2n=22 to 2n=60. http://www.academia.edu/560026/Staggered_Chromosomal_Hybrid_Zones_in_the_House_Mouse_Relevance_to_Reticulate_Evolution_and_Speciation

Edited February 8, 2013 by Arete

[Ophiolite]

I've noted that many people that is extremelly gifted (like 180- 190 or 220), Often believes that is an elf an alien a devil... everything except an Homo Sapiens. When i was a child, in sometimes believed that i was a macaw or something, specially in front of a biologist to avoid getting a label that begins with the word "Homo".

Interesting. Do you have any documentary evidence (e.g. research papers) describing this, rather than just personal anecdotes?

[Moontanman]

Arete, obviously the next phase...

[POLLITO110]

 

I don't think IQ can be used to suggest a new species...

Look it from another scope, if there was a neanderthal in the street, people will think somethink like : "look at this freak, he does not even deserve to have a job". that is the same that they would think of a person with a very high iq.

 

 

Why would IQ cause reproductive isolation? I would have to see some evidence that speciation in humans is running faster than ever, in fact I would think it is actually slower since we are mixing our genes up far faster now than we did thousands of years ago so in fact we have less reproductive isolation not more. Do you really think IQ is a prerequisite for mating? Only smart people mate with other smart people?

 

Speciation is not running the same way for all humans, even if 99,5% of humans are dispersing genes, the other 0,05% is more than enogh to populate a viable country. if IQ is a prerequisite for mating? not exactly, it's more or less the same that happens when a person mentally retarded looks for a GF outside his special school, and finds none.

 

 

What on earth do you mean by this?

 

There is people with 45 years or so, than married with a women that has 90 points of iq less, then they have children that are giften but less than his father, so they are hybrids. In the past it was very usual because there was no way to find a woman with a similar iq, they then think that are fallen in love in abscence of a better alternative. But in modern times it does not happen this way as before, because it's easier to meet an intelligent woman.

 

 

B) IQ tests generally have a standard deviation of 15. Using a standard Z table, the probability of a person having an IQ of 170 is 0.000002, or one in 500,000.

 

I'm aware of the statistics, and how difficult is to find a person intelligent enough that has also a diferent sex and is single.

But when speaking of the IQ scale used for humans, first the real distribution is very different than that, because if someone has 2 children, can duplitate the population of his country (not all countries have the same amount of people with a given iq). Then then, with a different scale of iq, there would also be differences of iq between the two especies, one will have 100 and the other 55 or so.

 

 

C) The human karyotype is fixed at 2n=46. Chromosomal rearrangements in humans can result in reduced fitness, and thus will be selected against.

 

Chimpanzes and neanderthals are both 2n=48, and nobody (or almost nobody) doubs that they are different species. Choromosal rearangements are more fit when both progenitors have the same. Furthermore, when you want to have a children you have to try more than once, quit smoking, take a lot of caffeine, allow a 3-5 days span between each trial... and this without thinking in the possibility that someone could use genetic engineering to have children with hugue iq's (people like the mother of justing chapman, of parents that are addict to greenhousing, to give an example), and given success stories like the vice-president of microsoft, bill gates, Paul allen... You can say: "get an offspring with iq=200 and have a 1000% ROI after 12 years". and more than one person will want to buy a son of another specie. Then if the parents do not know what to do with the child, say "no money back". I'm not saying that i will open a business with this model.

 

 

 

Interesting. Do you have any documentary evidence (e.g. research papers) describing this, rather than just personal anecdotes?

 

When i title my post "social consecuences", i'm expressing my concert about what would happen if the society begins to take the fact that there is another live specie of hominids seriously. Take in mind, that many people think that anything that is from a different specie can be hunted and eaten, for example. Humans are already known for the extintion of many species.

 

There have been murders that could be reinterpretated as inter-specie violence and competition for the resources. Eg. When a gifted individual is denied from getting a job and everithing from the society and decides to become a serial killer, I know that there is more than one case (unnabomber,columbine...), but i'm not very familiarised with serial murder cases. Then if there is a case of inter-specie murder, humans will be more likely to want to extinct the whole specie.

[Arete]

 

 

"look at this freak, he does not even deserve to have a job". that is the same that they would think of a person with a very high iq.

 

False. IQ positively correlates with increased job performance and employment. You are more likely to have a job if you have a high IQ score.

http://www.iq-tests.eu/iq-test-Practical-validity-800.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289609001226

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/j.1556-6676.1995.tb01786.x/abstract

 

 

 

Speciation is not running the same way for all humans, even if 99,5% of humans are dispersing genes, the other 0,05% is more than enogh to populate a viable country. if IQ is a prerequisite for mating? not exactly, it's more or less the same that happens when a person mentally retarded looks for a GF outside his special school, and finds none.

 

Actually, speciation is less likely in populations with high effective population sizes. The large human population size, in concert with extremely high migration rates makes speciation in humans under current circumstances extremely unlikely. Speciation is not "running" at all in humans, who are clinally differentiated.

http://www.pnas.org/content/78/6/3721.short

http://www.sciencedi...002929709001578

 

 

 

There is people with 45 years or so, than married with a women that has 90 points of iq less, then they have children that are giften but less than his father, so they are hybrids. In the past it was very usual because there was no way to find a woman with a similar iq, they then think that are fallen in love in abscence of a better alternative. But in modern times it does not happen this way as before, because it's easier to meet an intelligent woman.

 

IQ is highly plastic and enviromentally influenced. The IQ of the parents is not necessarily a predictor of the offspring, e.g.

"The models suggest that in impoverished families, 60% of the variance in IQ is accounted for by the shared environment, and the contribution of genes is close to zero"

http://pss.sagepub.c.../14/6/623.short

 

 

 

But when speaking of the IQ scale used for humans, first the real distribution is very different than that

 

Err, nope. The distribution of IQ scores is normalized and therefore normal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient

For a given IQ test, 1 in 500,000 people will score 160. One in several million will score 180.

 

 

Chimpanzes and neanderthals are both 2n=48, and nobody (or almost nobody) doubs that they are different species. Choromosal rearangements are more fit when both progenitors have the same.

 

I gave you an example in the previous post of house mice, which are the same species and range between 2n=22 and 2n=60. Whether or not a chromosomal rearrangement will reduced is reduced hybrid fitness or inviability is dependent on the type of rearrangement.

 

 

When i title my post "social consecuences", i'm expressing my concert about what would happen if the society begins to take the fact that there is another live specie of hominids seriously.

 

It's not currently a seriously considered possibility because there is simply no evidence for it. Speciation due to assortative mating based on IQ is flawed on many levels. For starters, as I stated before it's a normalized measurement specific to a given test population and hence a poor indicator. It's significantly environmentally determined. It's a continuous trait. Finally, if your "cut off" for a mate is shared by only 0.00002% of the population, the most likely outcome for such individuals is removal from the gene pool - given the extreme unlikelihood of finding a mate.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Arete

[POLLITO110]

 

False. IQ positively correlates with increased job performance and employment. You are more likely to have a job if you have a high IQ score.

 

This may be in your country, in my country i'm unemployable (without subsides) for that. This is a matter of human resources. Maybe you know somewere that is going to hire people for his big iq, if so, please enlighten me. I studied Business Administration and do internet marketing. I destroyed the admittance test of deloitte and pricewater house coopers (answer all the questions before time runs out, in other words, capped), i also destroyed one test for ibm that was made by internet, and they thought that was an error. And this is not the whole list. Other members making the test at the same time than me, where frightened for my performance.

But i suppose that not all offices of a company have the same admitance test.

Some people from E&Y also admited that they could not promote someone to partner in 4 years (normal is 20), so they fired me when began to discover how far goes my real performance (after less than 3 weeks). Then the problem gets biger, when this company admits that is not capable to make radical acceleration, then says to the university: we were interested in a diferent kind of boy (and nobody argued about this in the 30 years of history of the program), so the university moves me to a job designed for people with Down and/or asperger syndrome (because it was the worst job they had), in a non-profit organisation that is just desperate to fill this job vacant (pay drastically low), not concerned about the profile of the worker, and not suitable at all for me.

 

It's not currently a seriously considered possibility because there is simply no evidence for it. Speciation due to assortative mating based on IQ is flawed on many levels. For starters, as I stated before it's a normalized measurement specific to a given test population and hence a poor indicator. It's significantly environmentally determined. It's a continuous trait. Finally, if your "cut off" for a mate is shared by only 0.00002% of the population, the most likely outcome for such individuals is removal from the gene pool - given the extreme unlikelihood of finding a mate.

 

I know that humans have it way easier to find a girlfriend. Note also that, for example, the idea of moving children with iq higher than 170 to a especial school for them, is done in part to remove this isolation, then with hugue populations, you get more suitable mates which are previously selected. In china there are more than 1000 graduates from their school for extremelly gifted students, but i suspect that most or all of them are men.

 

 

Err, nope. The distribution of IQ scores is normalized and therefore normal. http://en.wikipedia....igence_quotient

For a given IQ test, 1 in 500,000 people will score 160. One in several million will score 180.

 

There are abnormal distributions in very high iq's, in part because the population is so small that one member more in this population can double the total population for a given iq range. You could say that if there is more population with for example 180, these will be drifted to the iq 140 population to fit the model, but the difference will stay there with a different name,the iq based speciation is more about affinity than about numbers.

Edited February 10, 2013 by POLLITO110

[POLLITO110]

 

IQ is highly plastic and enviromentally influenced. The IQ of the parents is not necessarily a predictor of the offspring, e.g.

"The models suggest that in impoverished families, 60% of the variance in IQ is accounted for by the shared environment, and the contribution of genes is close to zero"

http://pss.sagepub.c.../14/6/623.short

Is this model used in extremely gifted, or is comparing people with iq 's like 110 or 125? I suppose that being empoverished can reduce the aparent iq of a extremelly gifted child, specially when mainstream schooling (underperforming can also affect result of iq tests), or maybe the child is insulted or beaten by his parents to try to make him normal... But then, when the child leaves school, his iq may tend to his potential level (if there is not a job that induces further underperforming). Other thing that happens often, is that poor children are tested with cheap tests, that are not accurate, if you want to test a child with iq for example 200, you need something like the stamford-binet 3 LM form, that costs like $600 every time. and, before taking this test, the child has to ceil a screening test. There is the so called "club of the 148 iq's" ,that are children that ceiled the wisc-III or similar, but no further test was taken, so you could have a child that when was 6 years old scored 180 in an infantil test, and with 8 years scored 148 in the wisc-III, so there is people that believes that the iq of the child tends to a normal iq, and the child should be mainstreamed. That's a negligence that happens in my country.

And from my point of view, people with 100-110 are not different at all (or almost) from people with 125+. The point here is compare people that is 170-180-210... with people that is 80-100-120... (people that cheated in iq tests will lack the affinity, anywais, so is more likely to mate a normal person). You can not move from 100 to 180 if you are not born with a a neuronal system allowing it (excluding test cheats). There are cases of people moving from 54 to 190 because the first test was not made properly and failed to capture the child's ability.

 

Ah, and phenomenons like hothousing, that are more likely to happen with richer families, are what make children seem more inteligent, because they know numbers and letters with three years old... these children can quite well move from 100 to 125+ and corrupt statistics, but they are not really gifted.

Edited February 11, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Moontanman]

Look it from another scope, if there was a neanderthal in the street, people will think somethink like : "look at this freak, he does not even deserve to have a job". that is the same that they would think of a person with a very high iq.

 

You really went there... sigh... Neanderthals were not as different from us as you think, in fact we carry some of their DNA. If you dressed a neanderthal in a three piece suit and he walked down the street he would look like a short powerfully built man, most people wouldn't give him a second glance. As for the part about a person with a high IQ, exactly how do you look at a person and determine he has a high IQ?

[Alyaarn]

A new species will arise over time as the environment changes and as natural selection comes into *BIG* effect. You'd really have to have large amounts of people separated into a different environment. This group of people will thin down, and only those with preferable traits will have a better chance of surviving. Millions of years later, and genetic mutation among those with more "preferable" traits will be more and more evident.. thus "creating" a new species better adapted to this certain environment.

[Ophiolite]

@Alyaarn

 

Since the current human population is evolving there will come a time when future humans would no longer be fertile were they able to mate with modern humans. By definition they would then be a new species. Of course, you could argue that they were separated by time rather than distance and I wouldn't disagree with you.

[POLLITO110]

 

As for the part about a person with a high IQ, exactly how do you look at a person and determine he has a high IQ?

 

For me is like when you see a person and determine if it's a man or a woman. I suppose that it' not as easy for a person with a normal iq.

 

 

Millions of years later, and genetic mutation among those with more "preferable" traits will be more and more evident..

 

Humans are able to create especies very quickly, why shouldn't they do it with themselves? As i said, these traits are more evident by people that is more intelligent. I know people that has and high iq, and is trying to mate normal women, and if you say them to mate intelligent women, they suffer a similar transition as if they were getting homosexual, with the difference that they do it quickly and they are not changing the sex of their preferences. But i agree that with years these traits will become more evident.

Edited February 11, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Moontanman]

For me is like when you see a person and determine if it's a man or a woman. I suppose that it' not as easy for a person with a normal iq.

 

I don't know, I've found that arrogant tools tend to stand out in a crowd...

[POLLITO110]

 

I don't know, I've found that arrogant tools tend to stand out in a crowd...

 

I did not say it for arrogancy,just the nature of the question. I tried to avoid to envolve retarded people. Other way to say it, is determine why do you know that a person is severely retarded (without a syndrome that has especific facial characteristics). As example, many boys with Down Syndrome (even having special facial characteristics) realize that are different from the others very late, sometimes with 15 or 16 years old, but all normal humans know that this boy has DS. At the end, people with DS, thend to mate other DS. However, male DS boys are sterile.

 

Maybe somebody should answer this question with some quind of survey in societies like mensa, or more likely in teenagers like in the davidson academy , then, if there is enough population, determine for each iq range and if the children have been mainstreamed or not, and if there are posivilities of reproductive isolation. Then it should be comproved after 15 or 20 years to see if the subjects are really doing what they stated.

 

For quick data with only orientative value, just use a love test that could be trimmed from a magazine. But in this case it should be attached to another test (like the wooden penis and the condom test), so the teenagers are not frustrated by a magazine-trimmed test. But in this case take in mind that a lot of high iq teenagers, are not still aware that they prefer inteligent women (specially mainstreamed boys).

 

And I doubt that the chinese government will allow this study, because they ban everything that claims that some chineses are actually different.

 

There is also the phenomenon of misdiagnosis, that proves that people with normal iq, can have it difficult to detect people with high iq.

Edited February 11, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Arete]

 

 

This may be in your country, in my country i'm unemployable (without subsides) for that.... and not suitable at all for me.

 

While I empathize with your lack of employment, it remains that empirical study demonstrates the opposite to what you are stating and your experience is anecdotal. We have only your personal, subjective perception that your ability to perform well on a standardized analytical intelligence test was the reason you were deemed unacceptable for employment.

My anectdotal experience is contrary to yours - I work in a well known, private university in the US where, while no one ever discusses IQ scores, intelligence is celebrated.

I have however seen people be unsuccessful at interview, or fail to get tenure due to being perceived as abrasive, a "poor fit" for the department, arrogant, or otherwise unable to easily integrate socially into the department. No one wants to work with someone who will be difficult to get along with - and in my experience, even at a university which demands the highest level of academic achievement, IQ means naught if you can't interact well with the rest of the people you work with.

 

 

I know that humans have it way easier to find a girlfriend. Note also that, for example, the idea of moving children with iq higher than 170 to a especial school for them, is done in part to remove this isolation, then with hugue populations, you get more suitable mates which are previously selected. In china there are more than 1000 graduates from their school for extremelly gifted students, but i suspect that most or all of them are men.

 

Humans have it way easier than what? People with high IQ's are not a different species. China has over a billion people. Why are you extrapolating your personal preference for partners based on IQ applies to everyone in your position?

 

 

 

There are abnormal distributions in very high iq's, in part because the population is so small that one member more in this population can double the total population for a given iq range.

 

IQ tests are normalized. They can't be abnormally distributed, by definition.

 

 

the iq based speciation is more about affinity than about numbers.

 

Not by any standard definition of species. This statement is simply biologically false. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species#Definitions_of_species

 

Is this model used in extremely gifted, or is comparing people with iq 's like 110 or 125? I suppose that being empoverished can reduce the aparent iq of a extremelly gifted child, specially when mainstream schooling (underperforming can also affect result of iq tests), or maybe the child is insulted or beaten by his parents to try to make him normal

 

Any decent experimental design would control for the IQ of the test population and specifically not test special cases. IQ can be affected by nutrition, peer association, exposure to toxins like lead, educational environment, social stability, etc. The high environmental quotient, and temporal variability of IQ are a couple of the many factors that make the premise of this entire thread fundamentally flawed. The rest of your post discusses the variability in IQ - which in turn makes it a poor indicator of what is likely a multigenic, complex trait in any case.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Arete

[zapatos]

I destroyed the admittance test of deloitte and pricewater house coopers (answer all the questions before time runs out, in other words, capped), i also destroyed one test for ibm that was made by internet, and they thought that was an error. And this is not the whole list. Other members making the test at the same time than me, where frightened for my performance.

 

Some people from E&Y also admited that they could not promote someone to partner in 4 years (normal is 20), so they fired me when began to discover how far goes my real performance (after less than 3 weeks).

That is quite a story. I've never heard anything quite like it.

[Moontanman]

I did not say it for arrogancy,just the nature of the question. I tried to avoid to envolve retarded people. Other way to say it, is determine why do you know that a person is severely retarded (without a syndrome that has especific facial characteristics). As example, many boys with Down Syndrome (even having special facial characteristics) realize that are different from the others very late, sometimes with 15 or 16 years old, but all normal humans know that this boy has DS. At the end, people with DS, thend to mate other DS. However, male DS boys are sterile.

 

Maybe somebody should answer this question with some quind of survey in societies like mensa, or more likely in teenagers like in the davidson academy , then, if there is enough population, determine for each iq range and if the children have been mainstreamed or not, and if there are posivilities of reproductive isolation. Then it should be comproved after 15 or 20 years to see if the subjects are really doing what they stated.

 

For quick data with only orientative value, just use a love test that could be trimmed from a magazine. But in this case it should be attached to another test (like the wooden penis and the condom test), so the teenagers are not frustrated by a magazine-trimmed test. But in this case take in mind that a lot of high iq teenagers, are not still aware that they prefer inteligent women (specially mainstreamed boys).

 

And I doubt that the chinese government will allow this study, because they ban everything that claims that some chineses are actually different.

 

There is also the phenomenon of misdiagnosis, that proves that people with normal iq, can have it difficult to detect people with high iq.

 

 

I doubt this, in fact i would be willing to assert that you could not possibly look at me and judge my IQ to within + or - 20 IQ points

[Ophiolite]

OK, I know everyone is thinking this, so I'll be bastard who asks it.

 

@Pollito110, if your IQ is so amazingly high, why is your English (grammar, spelling, logical flow) so deplorable? Perhaps English is not your native language, which would wholly explain the problem. I'm just curious.

[POLLITO110]

 

Perhaps English is not your native language,

In fact, I'm Catalan. Furthermore, i've been mainstreamed for 20 years (which has been very noxious for me).

 

 

I doubt this, in fact i would be willing to assert that you could not possibly look at me and judge my IQ to within + or - 20 IQ points

 

It depends on how big it is, the bigger, the more difficult. I've seen people with 206-208... that asked me: guess my iq. Then i inmediatelly guessed: "that's higher than 130", but then i have to note where do they have the ceil , try to emulate his brain activity and then how hard it feels. And this should be compared to a number taken when studying iq tests and how many strenght you need to solve a question that is related to a certain iq level. Then i guessed a bit more than 200, the point here is that if you can not reach this level you cannot guess it, or maybe you will think that the man is a devil. Once i guessed one that was 168, i told him a bit less than 172-173 (because i've just been studying a problem of 175. And it's not the only thing I can do (i can also guess the authistic mind, nobody scapes).

 

Do it is easier If the man or woman has less than 130, and in my case, if the air temperature is higher than 28-30ºC (I think the optimum is also below 42-46ºC, where i'm beginning to get slower in order to support the heath, i've a greenhouse ). Anywais, before developing this technique, i used to go directly after gifted girls that where supposed to be hidden.

 

Normal humans, also detect that i'm different than them, but they are not as much accurate, and often confuse me with another kind of creature (like a wizzard, a devil, a crazy...).

 

Then, in a relationship you have more time than just a look to guess how intelligent is the other, it's why there are relationships that last 2 or 3 days and they find out that it was an error. If they argue and their iq is very different, then one may get scared and flee.

Edited February 11, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Moontanman]

In fact, I'm Catalan. Furthermore, i've been mainstreamed for 20 years (which has been very noxious for me).

 

 

Please elaborate on what you mean by this?

[Iota]

Species is singular and plural form, there's no such thing as "specie" in that sense. Not very on topic, but regarding your topic heading, how is it possible for a new species to emerge by means of "massive murder"?

Edited February 11, 2013 by Iota

[Ophiolite]

Normal humans, also detect that i'm different than them, but they are not as much accurate, and often confuse me with another kind of creature (like a wizzard, a devil, a crazy...).

 

Yes, I can see how that confusion could easily arise.