Social Consequences of a new Human Specie (by speciation, not massive murder)

[POLLITO110]

 

Please elaborate on what you mean by this?

In Catalonia or Catalunya (or how exactly is said in English). We speak Catalan, there are also a lot of spanish colons that speak spanish, so people uses to have two mother tongues. Catalan+ French in the rousillon (that is now inside french borders) And Catalan + Spanish in the remaining territories (eg.barcelona). Some colons only speak Spanish. There are also like 150 languajes (like punjabi, urdu, and of course english...).

 

What means mainstreamed? That is a therm from the united states, that means the opposite than being included in a Gifted Program. So if you are extremelly gifted and you are mainstreamed, what happens is that when you are 4 years old you parents say: " Be ready, because you will go to the school and learn a lot of thinks, this is very difficult". But in the first day you realize that this school is for people that cannot read or count, so you don't want to have nothing to do with it, because it's insulting. Then if this continues, you develop underperforming. Moderately gifted do it with 8-9-10 years.

 

When you have underperforming, you thend to not learn nothing in the school that is related to what they want to teach you (eg grammar, caligraphy...), if you compensate it with what you learned outside the school some years ago, this goes almost undetected, otherwise, they confuse you with a retarded, wich derivates to a visit by a psychiatrist, and so on until there appears some specialist in giftedness. When you move to another school that has no capacity for giftedness, then the problem begins again from the beginning or worse.

 

You can perform at a acceptable level in the school, but as you are not interested at all in what they are teaching, the teacher gets angry and you go to the psychiatrist anyway. This is why most extremely gifted, have been diagnosed because the psychiatrist wanted to know if the boy is really gifted or has some rare illness that is not TDAH, Asperger... because they have already been discarded. If the child is moved to a special center (one in the whole country along with spain, that is also carrying their own problems), then their negative symptoms disappear by sudden. If the parents are against bringing the child to an special center , And they do not have the pater custodia of the child suspended by authorities (like my case). Underperforming continues and gets worse. Then at the end of the mainstream (university included), and if there is not a job that could continue the effect, underperforming begins to vanish. Sometimes completely, sometimes not.

 

At least this is what happens in my country.

 

 

 

Species is singular and plural form, there's no such thing as "specie" in that sense. Not very on topic, but regarding your topic heading, how is it possible for a new species to emerge by means of "massive murder"?

 

I've seen in that forum, that some people wants to do eugenesics by killing everybody with a low iq.

 

I suppose that the idea is that if there only remains people with a high iq, there is reproductive isolation because the other individuals are killed, and they evolve to another species that is different that the extinted homo-sapiens, or they continue with the name homo-sapiens but all are from an specific race.

 

This idea has many flaws, because:

 

A). You do not actually need to do it, because reproductive isolation is already there.

B). There are things like the hothousing effect (the educative), and more than one would be given the wrong label.

C). It's more likely to see low iq people wanting to kill high iq people that are from another specie.

D). It's difficult to put a number, to get people that has a iq different enough to be another species, you need to search from a hugue population.

E). It's way very expensive, you need to kill a lot of people.

and so on.

 

A new species could also appear by banning inter-marriages. Humans create new species by selective mating or pollination. A new race is easier to obtain than a new species.

Edited February 11, 2013 by POLLITO110

[CharonY]

Has it ever occurred to you that being treated different may be the consequences of certain behavioral cues that may not actually be related with standardized test performance?

 

Also, it should be noted that almost everyone performs better under special programs, where extra attention is paid to individual students. Sometimes it is less of a being gifted situation but more of a motivational.

 

Regarding employment, Arete pretty much hit the nail right on the head. Performing well career wise means that one should also be able to focus one's intelligence on solving interpersonal problems.

Feelings of entitlement have, as far as I can tell, never charmed someone into offering a job.

Edited February 12, 2013 by CharonY

[Arete]

I've seen people with 206-208.

 

Here's where your story begins to become particularly implausible. One in several tens of millions of people will have an IQ score this high. The chances of encountering not one, but many in a lifetime as to have had asked such individuals the same question on numerous occasions and formed a generalization as to the reply to that question - unless you frequent global consortiums of geniuses on a regular basis - is far fetched.

[Ringer]

I must ask, what are the IQ tests that these people with abnormally high IQs took?

[CharonY]

That makes me wonder, does Spain have mandatory IQ tests (or at least in Catalonia)? I was just wondering about all the people who precisely know their IQs...

[POLLITO110]

Quote

 

That makes me wonder, does Spain have mandatory IQ tests (or at least in Catalonia)? I was just wondering about all the people who precisely know their IQs...

Quote

 

Here's where your story begins to become particularly implausible. One in several tens of millions of people will have an IQ score this high. The chances of encountering not one, but many in a lifetime as to have had asked such individuals the same question on numerous occasions and formed a generalization as to the reply to that question - unless you frequent global consortiums of geniuses on a regular basis - is far fetched.

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I must ask, what are the IQ tests that these people with abnormally high IQs took?

The answer is in this PDF: http://www.centrohuertadelrey.com/files/fck//file/what_are_extraordinarily_gifted_children_like.pdf

I took the test when i was 8 years old, mainly because i toped an infantil test that gave me 180 and i was telling it everywere (found very odd the fact to being tested by people coming from so far), but my parents banned me from attending the center, I also appear in a book done by the same organization.

This is a center in the middle of spain, but catalan population is over-represented. For me it's another form of colonial expoliation from spain, because such school should be in catalonia. Then they are thaugt to speak only in Spanish.

When I was 24-25 years old, I once found when leaving work, a group of these guys that began to ask me about the stamford binet, and i did not know what were they meaning (i did not go to the same school as them, so i forgot about it).

This was after i destroyed an admitance test from an organization, and surprisingly they hired me, but only for two months. The rare think in this case is that i was having a job (most coworkers with normal or low iq). Also, when someone calls a psychiatrist, or tells me to go to a psychiatrist or psychologist, they end calling the same woman (that is the author of this pdf).

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Has it ever occurred to you that being treated different may be the consequences of certain behavioral cues that may not actually be related with standardized test performance?

Yes, when they know about my real performance (or a part of it), they act more violently. But many said that when i was a baby i falled to the pod where someone was making LSD. I ted did not know my test results.

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Also it should be noted that almost everyone performs better under special programs, where extra attention is paid to individual students. Sometimes it is less of a being gifted situation but more of a motivational.

Once i was moved to a kind of gifted program where the teacher was prepared for retarded people, and the results were not so good. And yes, motivation increases the performance, so by just putting better furniture in the school, you may perform better, I call it brute force, because you spend money without knowing what exactly are you doing.

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Regarding employment, Arete pretty much hit the nail right on the head. Performing well career wise means that one should also be able to focus ones intelligence on solving interpersonal problems.

Feelings of entitlement have, as far as I can tell, never charmed someone into offering a job.

I'm aware of the necesity of interpersonal inteligence, and the damage that made the stereotype of Sheldon Cooper (they added him asperger artificially). But most problems begin from people that is gealous and sometimes desperate to remove me.

 

 

While I empathize with your lack of employment, it remains that empirical study demonstrates the opposite to what you are stating and your experience is anecdotal. We have only your personal, subjective perception that your ability to perform well on a standardized analytical intelligence test was the reason you were deemed unacceptable for employment.

My anectdotal experience is contrary to yours - I work in a well known, private university in the US where, while no one ever discusses IQ scores, intelligence is celebrated.

I have however seen people be unsuccessful at interview, or fail to get tenure due to being perceived as abrasive, a "poor fit" for the department, arrogant, or otherwise unable to easily integrate socially into the department. No one wants to work with someone who will be difficult to get along with - and in my experience, even at a university which demands the highest level of academic achievement, IQ means naught if you can't interact well with the rest of the people you work with.

 

I fitted in the past, because otherwise they could not discover my performance, because my focus has been to artificially fit in the companies (my parents couldn't upkeep me) , then the result was very contundent, because i also have a lot of disincrony, so my profile is very scallating. I'm in Internet marketing now, so, I'm no longer interested in a job (except when i'm scrubbed up like when i was in cpatank). I only need to sell tons of adult material to win like $200.000 or $300.000 a month (and a partner from deloitte in spain, wins only like 120.000€ a year), it's like changing of country. But using massive traffic sources (not adwords) this way can not be done directly, because i have a terrible budget (unemployable, and then scrubbed up, i began to promote AFF, that is crap, and it was converting). I was once winning 2000€ a day with a spanish network but they did not pay me. I've also been training a man from Bali in IM, just as a hobby.

 

I also have some vegetable gardens and a greenhouse where i invented some stuff: water collection device, equipment to allow flexible plastic to resist snow, equipment that passively allows the greenhouse to support at least -16,6ºC outside min temp (the lowest i recorded here) without freezing the plants inside (-0,5ºC is not frost)... All of them are low-cost without using power.

 

What is an abrasive man?

 

 

Not by any standard definition of species. This statement is simply biologically false.

I mean that relationships are given by affinity, then as this is from where children go, reproductive isolation happens.

Edited February 12, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Arete]

 

I took the test when i was 8 years old, mainly because i toped an infantil test that gave me 180 and i was telling it everywere

 

 

Wait - so this entire perception of your intellect comes from a single IQ test you did ~20 years ago when you were 8 years old?

 

 

I mean that relationships are given by affinity, then as this is from where children go, reproductive isolation happens.

 

I think you'll have a tough time justifying why your personal sexual preferences are a) extrapolatable to anyone else, let alone an entire phenotype of humans; and b) driving any diversification through differential selection, let alone any strong enough to drive sympatric speciation.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Arete

[POLLITO110]

Wait - so this entire perception of your intellect comes from a single IQ test you did ~20 years ago when you were 8 years old?

 

When you have 200+, all test lose their accuracy once you are 10 years old, instead of the normal 16. This is because the tests have a ceil, and it's very difficult to make questions for 200+IQ for adults. In fact, only the old stamford binet 3 LM form is able to capture a such big iq. Otherwise, nobody would take a such expensive test.

 

http://www.dirhody.com/discanner/dontthrow.html

 

This was not just one tests, if you read better, there is also the warm-up test, and a selectivity exam. I also have been practicing the sport of destroy tests in a very contundent way, however an accurate score is no longer possible for me.

 

 

I think you'll have a tough time justifying why your personal sexual preferences are a) extrapolatable to anyone else, let alone an entire phenotype of humans; and b) driving any diversification through differential selection, let alone any strong enough to drive sympatric speciation.

 

Well, In other forums i had to post a video where a monkey was trying to have sex with a goat. Because someone asked if there is any possiblity for a man with 135 IQ or so, to have a relationship with a woman that has normal intelligence.

Then, there is people that is gifted (again just 130-135) and has always been trying to mate normal women, sometimes they are undetected gifted and married people, that once detected, they understand the situation and divorce to go with another gifted woman.

 

There is also people, that meet another gifted woman for first time and happens the following:

A.) They fall in love for first time.

B.)They do not go very far, but then, they can no longer go with normal women.

 

There have also been people that meet another gifted boy, and confused it with homosexuality.

 

These cases are given from gifted adults forums, this is why my examples are for people with 135 or so that is lost. I known some, that when discover that they may preffer more intelligent women, they have the same process than homosexuals that have been acting as heterosexuals and now discover their true preferences.

 

I do not know if this has to do with some paperwork saying that populations where homosexuality is more accepted, there is more economic success. (Because one can easier say: "If homosexuals are going with people that are the same sex, i can go with women that have the same intelligence than me").

 

However, I spied in homosexuality forums, and all their problems that are not related to self acceptance are very different,mainly, because they are detected very easily by the common folks, they use to be people with normal iq, and they may also be sexually attracted by any heterosexual that is the same sex (or not).

 

Note that what happens between people that is 135 or so repect to people with normal intelligence, uses to be smaller than what happens between 135 and 170+.

 

There may also appear group pressure: When there is a group of extremelly gifted, and see another that goes with a normal women, they may laugh at them. So i assume that it's not the same a very disperse population than an artificially clustered one.

Edited February 12, 2013 by POLLITO110

[POLLITO110]

Today i have seen a dating website were they match people by DNA: http://www.genepartner.com/

If this page grows like google, Someone could bribe them to create new species. They claim that it increases fertility.

[Ophiolite]

Approximately how many people, to a close order of magnitude, with IQs in excess of 170 have you met?

[POLLITO110]

Approximately how many people, to a close order of magnitude, with IQs in excess of 170 have you met?

 

As i've been mainstreamed, not a lot of them . But there are schools with at least 30 or 40 of them and sometimes i've been surronded. A special case is the school of extremely gifted of china, that has already had more than 1000 graduates.

Once, when i was 24 years old, i found like 6 or 7 kids,almost all of them of the same age, except one that was already like 8 or 9 years old that claimed to be my sons, or at least some of them. But they could be kidding me or be confused, bacause i did not still have girlfriend then, There is a similar experiment from 1979 to 1999.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Klark_Graham

 

In this case, the experiment was just intended to improve the white race by eugenesics and was not considering that these children could be from a different species (there are documentals). I do not remeber to have participated in something similar, but once a woman that was desperate (32 years old and me just 20-21) to have a child (and i suppose that wanted to have it alone), asked me to fill a recipient with sperm. Maybe then more women wanted to have a baby with the same quality sperm (I have tricks) and all the children ended having to go to the same school due to extreme giftedness, because the woman had many family members from a gifted organisation, but that's just a speculation.

 

In the same school group (all gifted) there were more children, and some had almost destroyed a land contention wall by filling its draining holes and throwing a lot of water (there was already a 20cm space between the wall and the ground, then y told that someone stop the watering tap). I have been once asked for destructive things about architecture and i answered it (and is a very speciofic thing that many architects do not know).

I was just going to a job interview in the neighborhood and found this wall falling (and it was not raining).

 

I also know some women with more than 170, some are married and some don't.

And a day i was in france (tarbes) with my parents and suddenntly appeared a very intelligent women that was watching at me, and my mother got scared and removed me from the place.

Edited February 15, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Moontanman]

Are you Sheldon Cooper?

[Ophiolite]

 

As i've been mainstreamed, not a lot of them . But there are schools with at least 30 or 40 of them and sometimes i've been surronded. A special case is the school of extremely gifted of china, that has already had more than 1000 graduates.

Once, when i was 24 years old, i found like 6 or 7 kids,almost all of them of the same age, and one that was already like 8 or 9 years old that claimed to be my sons, or at least some of them. But they could be kidding me or be confused, bacause i did not still have girlfriend then, There is a similar experiment from 1979 to 1999, but i do not remeber to have participated in something similar.

 

In the same school group (all gifted) there were more children, and some had almost destroyed a land contention wall by filling its draining holes and throwing a lot of water (there was already a 20cm space between the wall and the ground, then y told that someone stop the watering tap). I have been once asked for destructive things about architecture and i answered it (and is a very speciofic thing that many architects do not know).

I was just going to a job interview in the neighborhood and found this wall falling (and it was not raining).

 

I also know some women with more than 170, some are married and some don't.

And a day i was in france (tarbes) with my parents and suddenntly appeared a very intelligent women that was watching at me, and my mother got scared and removed me from the place.

So, to repeat my question, how many people, to a close order of magnitude, with IQs in excess of 170 have you met? I was hoping for an objective, technical response, not a rambling, subjective anecdote. This is meant to be a science forum after all.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Ophiolite

[POLLITO110]

If you ask me for who i have met (i did not mention people seen in tv, like Larry Page), then you get a personal anecdote. If you want a detailed census, note that i am not a tax office nor a sect control deppartment. For a more Accurate answer, I suggest you to go to somewhere like the davidson academy... At least they know how many studdets they had. But I'm afraid that you will only find a partial census, because many go undetected. That is not as easy as counting rabbits.

 

Statistically, there should be 35000-70000 in the world, but some gifted schools claim that the population may be higher than the statistics because they had unusual distributions (ie, 8 189+IQ children found in a population of only 40M, including adults...).

 

You could count them by collecting the DNA of all the people and then finding wich have the traits of a different species taken from a previous experiment. Maybe then, you will get your answer, and new experiments could be easier to take. But there is a lot of people against a global DNA blacklist.

 

Nowadays, experiments are more likely to be taken in artificially clustered populations.

 

Are you Sheldon Cooper?

 

Nope, but some of the stereotypes created by him have been applied to me. Like the asperger syndrome. If I ask for a job, and the employer believes that i will do the same as Sheldon Cooper does, i will not be hired. And once, a person in the university that was supposed to place me in a job, compared me with him and placed me in a job that had been previously covered by people with asperger syndrome and after i left there, three asperger girls replaced me (only kind of manpower they could aspire to obtain). So it's a serious matter.

 

If you ask me why i left this job, i wasn't going to stay one more minute than the necessary just to allow some inepts to laugh at me. Salaries there were drastically and cronically low, you could be 10 years without promotion earning just the minimum wage, that was about 550-600€ a month. But for them, having me was a luxury, so they asked me many times to continue there.

Edited February 15, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Ophiolite]

Do you have comprehension difficulties? Unless you have problems with memory recall you should be able to come up with an estimate of how many people with an IQ 0f 170 or greater you have met. If I were in the habit of meeting persons with high IQ and being aware of it, as you claim to be, then I should take only a few minutes to arrive at a reasonable estimate. I should expect with your considerably superior computational powers derived from your elevated IQ that this should be the work of only a few moments. Would you please now provide this number, without ridiiculous and irrelevant sidetracks. Thank you.

[POLLITO110]

Do you have comprehension difficulties? Unless you have problems with memory recall you should be able to come up with an estimate of how many people with an IQ 0f 170 or greater you have met. If I were in the habit of meeting persons with high IQ and being aware of it, as you claim to be, then I should take only a few minutes to arrive at a reasonable estimate. I should expect with your considerably superior computational powers derived from your elevated IQ that this should be the work of only a few moments. Would you please now provide this number, without ridiiculous and irrelevant sidetracks. Thank you.

 

What do you mean by have met? does it involve sex or something? As i have been mainstreamed i have met too low, In other words, i have been banned from meeting intelligent people. The number can be 12-13 or up to 100, it depends on your concept of met (i'm not in mensa nor anything) .

 

May I ask you the same question?, maybe you know some women for me.

Edited February 15, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Arete]

The number can be 12-13 or up to 100,

 

I think Ophiolite's point is, that on average, you would have to meet 50 million people - or the equivalent of the entire population of South Korea to meet 100 people with IQ's of 170 or over.

 

This makes the claim that you have met 100 people with IQ's over 170 seem considerably implausible.

[POLLITO110]

I think Ophiolite's point is, that on average, you would have to meet 50 million people - or the equivalent of the entire population of South Korea to meet 100 people with IQ's of 170 or over.

 

This makes the claim that you have met 100 people with IQ's over 170 seem considerably implausible.

 

This does not work this way. When you have an artificially clustered population, 100% people there has this iq range. Then, if the population has 30 members, i add 30 to the stimate. 30 people observing what i'm doing its not necessarilly having met them, but having seen them. What it's done to create an artificially clustered population, is first filter the people that got a high iq somewhere, and then, test these people to have an accurate iq. In most cases, are the profoundly gifted themselves or their parents, that decide to go to the artificially clustered population by themselves.

 

However, if you sum the total population of the countries from where they are, sum at least 650 million.

 

If you want to know a big number of 170+ Iq people, begin visiting places like this:

http://www.davidsonacademy.unr.edu/

 

 

I did not count any child from this video in my stimate.

 

In this other video, you can see a reproductive couple, and his offspring:

 

This is just one single case, but it makes to begin to think, why did precissely these 2 got an offspring toguether? I'm sure that if you see population statistics, they were not likely to have met (if they aren't brothers of course).

Edited February 17, 2013 by POLLITO110

[dmaiski]

I doubt this, in fact i would be willing to assert that you could not possibly look at me and judge my IQ to within + or - 20 IQ points

 

 

depends on your iq

 

usually it goes like this

iq : my analysis

50 : moron

70 : moron

90 : idiot

110 : idiot

130 : i need to dumb things down for them a bit

140+ : i can actually talk to this person

 

its not an issue of looking at a person and seeing their iq, its an issue of talking to the person and instantly realizing they can not understand a word you just said

 

btw mine is ~150 depending on what I ate for lunch

iq tests cap out at ~170

[Ophiolite]

Based upon your last post I recommend you get retested.

[Arete]

its an issue of talking to the person and instantly realizing they can not understand a word you just said

 

I think it says more about your ego than anything else - or perhaps your communication skills. A famous professor once told me that "If you can't communicate a simple idea to a student of reasonable capability, the problem is not with your student, but with you ability to communicate that idea."

 

Given you consider 75% of the human population "idiots" or "morons" and that you need at least to "dumb things down a bit" for 98% of the population lends itself to the possibility that you are either incredibly poor at communicating, or exaggerating, just a little

 

Additionally - internet tests are not a suitable substitute for an actual IQ test - which is normalized based on the test population - hence of limited applicability to the rest of the population. BTW - I don't think I've ever actually known the IQ of a colleague, or my own for that matter.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Arete

[Delta1212]

 

 

depends on your iq

 

usually it goes like this

iq : my analysis

50 : moron

70 : moron

90 : idiot

110 : idiot

130 : i need to dumb things down for them a bit

140+ : i can actually talk to this person

 

its not an issue of looking at a person and seeing their iq, its an issue of talking to the person and instantly realizing they can not understand a word you just said

 

btw mine is ~150 depending on what I ate for lunch

iq tests cap out at ~170

A moron is classically more intelligent than an idiot.

[POLLITO110]

35-50 is the IQ of an average chimpanze:

 

http://www.paulcooijmans.com/intelligence/iq_ranges.html

 

iq tests cap out at ~170

 

It depends, the famous nicologic tests of the internet, claim to be reliable up to 170, but once i made one where you could score 200 that disappeared from the website.

http://www.nicologic.fr/?page_id=109

 

In professional tests there is the stamford binet 3 and the 4 ampliated (only for children):

 

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/dont_throw.htm

 

In this article appears an score of 229+,

 

Since the time that article was released, an additional child has been found who scored 182 on the Stanford-Binet (Form L-M) and 127 on the Stanford-Binet: Fourth Edition. Another scored 137 on the WISC-R, and a year later tested 229+ on the Stanford-Binet (Form L-M), at the age of nine missing only two items on the entire test! This "test artifact" amounts to blatant discrimination against the highly gifted, and has major implications for the location of gifted students, and for their placement in programs. The situation is shocking, but no one appears to be paying attention because the highly gifted are not of central interest to test constructors. In contrast, the gifted and highly gifted were definitely important to Lewis Terman, who constructed the original Stanford-Binet. Among other things, Terman planned to use the test to find potential "geniuses," so he had an investment in creating a difficult enough examination with a high enough ceiling to permit their discovery.

Edited March 11, 2013 by POLLITO110

[Moontanman]

whoop te do my iq... I am unimpressed... by your best... if you must so arrogantly, dumb it down for me, i would say... we have little to talk about anyway...

[POLLITO110]

depends on your iq

 

usually it goes like this

iq : my analysis

50 : moron

70 : moron

90 : idiot

110 : idiot

130 : i need to dumb things down for them a bit

140+ : i can actually talk to this person

 

its not an issue of looking at a person and seeing their iq, its an issue of talking to the person and instantly realizing they can not understand a word you just said

 

btw mine is ~150 depending on what I ate for lunch

iq tests cap out at ~170

 

If i had to post a similar scale, the minimum would be less than 130, but i would not use psychiatric therms that have already been created in the past to lavel other specific iq ranges (i.e the less tan 20 was an idiot)

 

http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqbasics.aspx

 

What happens with gifted people, is that up to 150, you accumulate stigmatisation from the average population, when you have more than 150, people has already reached its maximum stigmation level, so additional iq points do not hurt. You do not have to confuse stigmatisation from normal people by unavility to comunicate.

 

This is why you could surely talk to a pet that may be less inteligent than 140:

 

Edited March 11, 2013 by POLLITO110