Lemon's Wager

[ydoaPs]

Everyone knows that Pascal's Wager is terrible. In fact, Pascal knew it was terrible (that's why he never published it). This video is a clever wager that turns the table on the original.

 

 

Thoughts? Rebuttals?

[Semjase]

Common sense dictates as far as the video is concerned , but if all the people who have committed

serious criminal acts throughout history that could of been avoided

had of listened to Pascal's wager and respected the idea of accountability

in the afterlife, think of all the suffering that could of been avoided.

[john5746]

Thoughts? Rebuttals?

Nothing in atheism suggests seeking forgiveness or doing good works. Maybe she could argue from a humanist position, but still would be hard to say that humanists do more good works than christians, especially given the uncertainty as to what the gods would consider to be good works.

 

I think the argument would be more along the lines that believing in a false god is worse than not believing in any in more religions. Not sure if that is true or not.

Common sense dictates as far as the video is concerned , but if all the people who have committed

serious criminal acts throughout history that could of been avoided

had of listened to Pascal's wager and respected the idea of accountability

in the afterlife, think of all the suffering that could of been avoided.

If you are trying to avoid human suffering in this life, then why not respect the idea of accountability in this life? It would avoid even more suffering, since they would be tied directly to the outcome. No middleman needed.

 

If there really is an eternal afterlife, then murdering someone with the "right" beliefs just sends them to heaven. So murdering someone with the "wrong" beliefs would create the most suffering.

[Moontanman]

Great video, pretty girl but then intelligence is always prettier than the alternative. She makes a very good point although I'd have to see what other religions actually say about non believers and the afterlife. I've never read of a religion that allows for non believers to participate in an afterlife. On the other hand Christianity has the most unjust afterlife of all i have read about...

[Semjase]

 

 

 

I think the argument would be more along the lines that believing in a false god is worse than not believing in any in more religions. Not sure if that is true or not.

If you are trying to avoid human suffering in this life, then why not respect the idea of accountability in this life? It would avoid even more suffering, since they would be tied directly to the outcome. No middleman needed.

 

 

 

 

People in this life know they may or may not be accountable, but in the afterlife

concept you know you will be accountable to a superior intelligence and there's

no way out of it.

 

[Phi for All]

I like the wager. The Christian heaven would have to have a lot of people who were total scum in life but repented on their death beds as they accepted Jesus. How is that better than having people who spent their lives making this world better for those who live in it but didn't place utter, unquestioning faith in a god who wanted them to focus on personal redemption?

[john5746]

People in this life know they may or may not be accountable, but in the afterlife

concept you know you will be accountable to a superior intelligence and there's

no way out of it.

This is kinda like a mom using the "wait till your dad comes home" to keep a child in line. It might work if the dad does indeed exist, come home and beat the kid from time to time. But, if the dad doesn't even come home, then the child will eventually act as if he doesn't exist. Either way, better for the mom to handle the discipline herself and to instill a method of self discipline in the child, because the child cannot escape itself.

 

We already know that even the strongest believers don't act like god is watching them all the time. They pick their nose, masturbate and fart as if no one is watching them. The bluff loses its potency over time.

 

So my argument is if you we are wishing, better wish for people to be much better parents and truly educate their children then to compensate with myths.

[Moontanman]

I like the wager. The Christian heaven would have to have a lot of people who were total scum in life but repented on their death beds as they accepted Jesus. How is that better than having people who spent their lives making this world better for those who live in it but didn't place utter, unquestioning faith in a god who wanted them to focus on personal redemption?

 

 

i agree, the Christian system is highly unfair and definitely unjust... Far too easy to commit heinous acts that destroy the lives of others and get by with it and just repent on your death bed and everything is a-ok. But live a decent life but lack belief and you fry for all eternity... kinda makes you want to make sure those who commit such acts don't get to make that death bed conversion don't it?

[Semjase]

This is kinda like a mom using the "wait till your dad comes home" to keep a child in line. It might work if the dad does indeed exist, come home and beat the kid from time to time. But, if the dad doesn't even come home, then the child will eventually act as if he doesn't exist. Either way, better for the mom to handle the discipline herself and to instill a method of self discipline in the child, because the child cannot escape itself.

 

We already know that even the strongest believers don't act like god is watching them all the time. They pick their nose, masturbate and fart as if no one is watching them. The bluff loses its potency over time.

 

So my argument is if you we are wishing, better wish for people to be much better parents and truly educate their children then to compensate with myths.

 

I told my son he'd be accountable in the afterlife life, I think it made some key differences in

to his viewpoint on life and actions. Same with president Reagan who knew he was accountable

to God so he didn't anything that stupid.

 

This goes hand in hand with having an accurate perspective

on God.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Semjase

[Phi for All]

I told my son he'd be accountable in the afterlife life, I think it made some key differences in

to his viewpoint on life and actions. Same with president Reagan who knew he was accountable

to God so he didn't anything that stupid.

 

You should then also remind your son not to sell illegal arms to Iran, funnel money to what would become the Taliban and Al Qaeda, or support Apartheid. Just sayin'.

 

Accountability is another concept that makes no sense with so many religions. We can NEVER know the extent to which our acts, even the kind ones, affect others. Giving money to someone may seem charitable but might keep them from finding their dream job. Helping one person might mean that someone more deserving suffers. Braking to avoid hitting a dog might cause someone further back in traffic to swerve and hit someone else head-on, killing them all. And conversely, doing something unkind could end up being the greatest benefit that person ever knew. How can we be held accountable for all the myriad variables in our lives and those affected by us?

[Moontanman]

 

 

This goes hand in hand with having an accurate perspective

on God.

 

 

That would seem to be the $64,000 question...