Moontanman Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 Hey please make it public wanna see what actually there............... Not my video, for some reason ABC News took it down...
michel123456 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Even if they're mostly metal or rock, there is still a chance of pockets of ice or frozen gas within. The heat from friction builds up enough pressure to cause an explosion. Found this below from here . Not very convincing. Why do asteroids burn up in the atmosphere? Answer: The answer is NOT friction as many people believe. When a meteoroid enters the upper atmosphere of Earth, it is travelling at a very high speed; in the neighborhood of 30,000 MPH. As it enters the atmosphere the air in front of it is compressed. When a gas is compressed, its temperature rises. This very hot air then heats the leading edge of the meteoroid as high as 3,000 degrees F (1,650 degrees C). Then enough heat is generated that the meteoroid catches on fire and eventually vaporizes (disintegrates). Most meteoroids that enter burn up completely, a small percentage make it to the ground where they remain as small, extremely hot rocks, and an even smaller percentage actually cause catastrophic disasters. __________________________ There are inaccuracies in the explanation above. The meteoroids that make it to the ground, at least the small ones, are not extremely hot. Just think, once the object has been reduced to a few ounces or a few pounds, it is not going to heat up any further in the last few miles before impacting the Earth. It will most likely cool down. Only the very large ones will cause devastation and impact craters. and they will still most likely not be hot. How hot can an object of a few tons that was travelling through cold space get after a few minutes of causing heat by compressing the air it passes through? Like ice, only the surface melts. The interior will still be cold until its internal -250 degree C temperature is raised. That could take a very long time for a large object. All this looks like coming from "common sense". i see no scientific explanation. When one reads from wiki: The total energy released was equivalent to nearly 500 kilotons of TNT,[10][1][2] which would make it 20–30 times more powerful than the atomic bombs detonated at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.[1][2][11][10] To me that is not an explosion caused by thermal (chemical) reaction. More like a hydrogen bomb. Edited February 17, 2013 by michel123456
michel123456 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) -----------------------Found this about Barringer Meteorite Crater in Arizona: In 1960, Eugene Shoemaker, Edward Chao and David Miltonwere responsible for the discovery of a new mineral at the Barringercrater. This mineral, a form of silica called “coesite”, had first beencreated in a laboratory in 1953 by chemist Loring Coes. Its formationrequires extremely high pressures and temperatures, greater than anyoccurring naturally on earth. Coesite and a similar material called“stishovite” have since been identified at numerous other suspectedimpact sites, and are now accepted as indicators of impact origin.Finally, in 1963, Eugene Shoemaker published his landmarkpaper analyzing the similarities between the Barringer crater andcraters created by nuclear test explosions in Nevada. Carefully mappingthe sequence of layers of the underlying rock, and the layers of theejecta blanket, where those rocks were deposited in reverse order, hedemonstrated that the nuclear craters and the Barringer crater werestructurally similar in nearly all respects. His paper provided theclinching arguments in favor of an impact, finally convincing the lastdoubters. From here (emphasizing mine) -------------------- And the "does not work mobile" from the OP is also interrogating. Edited February 17, 2013 by michel123456
Semjase Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) A credible scientific explanation for the Russian meteor will be difficult NASA says it weighed 10,000 tons before it entered the Earth's atmosphere, Russian scientist say it was 10 tons that mean 99.9% of the meteor would have to evaporated before it got close to Earth looking at work done by gravity on the meteor and slowing due to air resistance would have to account for the evaporation energy of almost the entire meteor. Also the meteor did not travel far from being a smaller glowing object to a massive glowing object followed by a large explosion, the energy numbers have to make sense for this whole event. The composition of the meteor fragments would also have to justify the blinding white light from the meteor. For the Tunguska event of 1908 there was never a credible scientific explanation given for it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9874662/Russian-meteor-exploded-with-force-of-30-Hiroshima-bombs.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/9874790/Russian-meteor-lack-of-fragments-sparks-conspiracy-theories.html http://www.ibtimes.com/russias-other-meteor-crash-mysterious-1908-tunguska-event-1088770 Edited February 17, 2013 by Semjase
michel123456 Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Scarce information "The bright fireball is not the object burning, it's the ionising gasesin the atmosphere. Plasma. The area in front of a spacecraft's heat shield during re-entry into the atmosphere --------------- Edit: exploding plasma? Edited February 17, 2013 by michel123456
D H Posted February 17, 2013 Posted February 17, 2013 But heat comes from the outside and the meteorite is supposed to be solid rock. It is not full of kerozene. Have you ever gone primitive camping? If you have, you should know that you don't use sedimentary rocks such as sandstone for the fire ring because if you do they might explode. Combustion is not needed. All that is needed is the water that's bound in the rock to be released as steam. The internal pressure that results, coupled with the inherent weakness of those rocks, makes the rocks explode. That is what happened with this meteor. Carbonaceous chondrites make sandstone look downright sturdy, and some contain quite a bit of water and other volatiles. Found this below from here . Not very convincing. All this looks like coming from "common sense". i see no scientific explanation. It's answers.com. What do you expect? Answers? Bon jour. To me that is not an explosion caused by thermal (chemical) reaction. More like a hydrogen bomb. You're forgetting about kinetic energy, [math]KE=\frac 1 2 mv^2[/math]. This meteor had a mass of about 10,000 short tons and was going about 47,000 mph. That represents a lot of energy, about 30 times the amount of energy released by the Hiroshima bomb. 2
Semjase Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 This is the most interesting video I've seen of the meteor mind blowing if true but most likely fake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXdJ7wm4Opk
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 This is the most interesting video I've seen of the meteor mind blowing if true but most likely fake http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXdJ7wm4Opk Certainly interesting viewing ! Has anybody yet confirmed or disproved a link between the Russian Exploding meteor and the passing asteroid skimming the upper satellite orbits. It otherwise seems remarkably coincidental !
Spyman Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Has anybody yet confirmed or disproved a link between the Russian Exploding meteor and the passing asteroid skimming the upper satellite orbits. It otherwise seems remarkably coincidental ! The asteroid flyby and Russian meteor explosion had significantly different trajectories, showing that they were completely unrelated events, NASA officials said. http://www.space.com/19838-russian-meteor-blast-bigger-size.html
CaptainPanic Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 I am no expert, but I will still give my 2 cents on why such a rock may cause a sudden explosion. The following sequence of events seems likely to me: 1. Rock enters atmosphere. 2. Air gets compressed in front of rock. Heats up a lot. 3. Rock also heats up, but only on outside. 4. Large temperature difference cracks the rock (like a thermal shock). It breaks. 5. All the rock fragments now have a MUCH larger frontal surface area, compressing much more air, turning much more kinetic energy into heat in a much shorter time. It is so sudden, that this is observed as an explosion. Once again: I am not an expert on meteorites, but I know a thing or two about heat transfer... and that tells me that a few seconds is a very short time to boil any water inside a rock. Even if the temperature reaches thousands of degrees, you have to deal with heat transfer. I would be surprised if the temperature a few centimeters inside the rock would change at all so quickly. If this is a big rock, then I don't think that expanding steam would be the cause of the rock to break up.
michel123456 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) I am no expert, but I will still give my 2 cents on why such a rock may cause a sudden explosion. The following sequence of events seems likely to me: 1. Rock enters atmosphere. 2. Air gets compressed in front of rock. Heats up a lot. 3. Rock also heats up, but only on outside. 4. Large temperature difference cracks the rock (like a thermal shock). It breaks. 5. All the rock fragments now have a MUCH larger frontal surface area, compressing much more air, turning much more kinetic energy into heat in a much shorter time. It is so sudden, that this is observed as an explosion. Once again: I am not an expert on meteorites, but I know a thing or two about heat transfer... and that tells me that a few seconds is a very short time to boil any water inside a rock. Even if the temperature reaches thousands of degrees, you have to deal with heat transfer. I would be surprised if the temperature a few centimeters inside the rock would change at all so quickly. If this is a big rock, then I don't think that expanding steam would be the cause of the rock to break up. You made your own explanation, does that mean that you too feel a lack of information? i can accept any explanation for the explosion but i need something that explains the flash. The light was so bright that it produced shadows (IOW it was brighter than the sun). You don't get such an effect with a simple fire. Edited February 18, 2013 by michel123456
D H Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 i can accept any explanation for the explosion but i need something that explains the flash. The light was so bright that it produced shadows (IOW it was brighter than the sun). You don't get such an effect with a simple fire. It wasn't fire. It was "just" kinetic energy. The cross sectional surface area suddenly increased by orders of magnitude when that rock exploded (no fire needed). That huge increase in surface area meant a huge increase in the rate at which energy was transferred to the atmosphere. Kaboom, and ka-flash.
Semjase Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 This must be the crater from the meteor what else could it be? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pRBt1jhc78
D H Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 This must be the crater from the meteor what else could it be? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pRBt1jhc78 What else could it be? It just might be the Door to Hell. Didn't anyone ever tell you not to believe everything on the internet?
michel123456 Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Kaboom say yes. Ka-flash I don't know why. When a pressure cooker explodes, there is no light.
D H Posted February 18, 2013 Posted February 18, 2013 Ka-flash I don't know why. When a pressure cooker explodes, there is no light. You are still ignoring kinetic energy. Your pressure cooker is not going about 20 kilometers per second. That meteor was. [imath]1/2\,m\,v^2[/imath] makes for a lot of kinetic energy when both m and v are rather large. In this case, 10,000 tons moving at 20 km/s represented a whole lot of kinetic energy, about the same as that released by 30 Hiroshima-type bombs. When that meteor blew up, the rate at which energy was transferred to the atmosphere went up by orders of magnitude because the tiny pieces had a whole lot more surface area than did the meteor right before it blew up. The bulk of that energy transfer was in the form of heat.
x(x-y) Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Makes sense. @Michel: The flash of light is essentially caused due to a very large amount of energy being transferred to the surroundings in a very short amount of time - due to increased relative surface area. Think about burning pieces of wood - if you set fire to a very large piece of wood (which has a high volume in relation to its surface area) then it will take a long time for it to burn and consequently the flame intensity (brightness) will be relatively low over a small amount of time. However, if you burn very small pieces of wood (which have high surface area to volume ratios) then the brightness of the flame per unit time will be relatively larger than the former scenario. It's the same situation with this meteorite - as it has exploded into smaller fragment, thus it's overall surface area to volume ratio will be larger than when it was a single rock, thus energy is transferred at a faster rate; hence the light "flash". 1
esbo Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Certainly interesting viewing ! Has anybody yet confirmed or disproved a link between the Russian Exploding meteor and the passing asteroid skimming the upper satellite orbits. It otherwise seems remarkably coincidental ! Yes me!!! I am uploading a video to youtube to explain it, gonna take another 70 minutes, huge file 1 GB for 3 mins of video lol. Never made a video to upload before so I have a lot to learn there. I believe I have proved it could be linked.. Will post a link when it is ready.
CaptainPanic Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Kaboom say yes. Ka-flash I don't know why. When a pressure cooker explodes, there is no light. True. And the reason is simple. There is not enough energy per kilogram of material to make it hot enough to make it glow. A pressure cooker, at 250 C contains an approximated T*Cp = 250*4180 = 1 MJ/kg of thermal energy. If we include some energy from the steam pressure, we can increase that. And for the sake of the argument, let's just say that a pressure cooker can contain twice as much energy (it's actually can't, but my point will still stand). So, 2 MJ/kg is your energy per mass in a pressure cooker, and that won't flash as bright as the sun. True. According to the telegraph, who cite NASA, the rock was going 44000 miles/hr, or 70811 km/hr, or 19.7 km/s. The kinetic energy contained in a kilogram of rock is then 0.5*m*v^2 = 0.5*1*19700^2 = 194 MJ/kg, about 100 times more than your pressure cooker.
michel123456 Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Informations diverge: 10 tonnes from the ones (that is ten thousands kilograms) 10,000 tons (I suppose meaning short tons) from the others = approx 9,072 tonnes (that is nine millions kilograms) That's a difference of 10^3 ------------------ From the very little info I can get it seems to me the most probable explanation is that the ionized gases of atmosphere exploded, producing a little sun for 5 seconds. This above a rotaded image of the trace in the russian sky. (original image from wiki here)
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Informations diverge: 10 tonnes from the ones (that is ten thousands kilograms) 10,000 tons (I suppose meaning short tons) from the others = approx 9,072 tonnes (that is nine millions kilograms) That's a difference of 10^3 ------------------ From the very little info I can get it seems to me the most probable explanation is that the ionized gases of atmosphere exploded, producing a little sun for 5 seconds. (image removed by mod - can be seen in the post above). This above a rotaded image of the trace in the russian sky. (original image from wiki here) . ---------- Michel ---------- . Are we going to live.? or are we all going to die ? . ---------------------------------------- . Edited February 20, 2013 by CaptainPanic We only need such a huge picture once
CaptainPanic Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 Michel Are we going to live.? or are we all going to die ? Mike Is this trolling.? or Are you just confused what the topic is about? We are all going to die. Eventually. But that is really another topic, methinks. Now, let's talk about meteors, asteroids and explosions again. 1
michel123456 Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) As Captain said we are all going to die but not all together at the same time which is what frightens people. That's another topic indeed. And that is not related with the asteroid. As pointed above injuries were caused by curiosity and buildings. And lack of information on what to do when a flash occurs. On the last picture one can observe the fumes make a spiral. As if the asteroid was rotating upon itself, like a spinning bullet from a rifle. The straight path indicates the same. (or maybe - I don't see clearly- maybe it is a double spiral rotating clockwise & counter clockwise. The double fume is intriguing anyway. Edited February 19, 2013 by michel123456
imatfaal Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 ! Moderator Note Connexions with between 2012 DA14 and Chelyabinsk Meteorite are speculative at best and the discussion has been moved to speculations. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/73028-2012-da14-any-link-with-chelyabinsk-meteorite/ Please try to keep to the topic of the Chelyabinsk Meteorite.
michel123456 Posted February 19, 2013 Posted February 19, 2013 And why the samples found on the ice lake did not melt the ice? Where they cold when reaching the ground?
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