Was the Chelyabinsk Meteor engaged by a UFO and shot down?

[Moontanman]

why did they not stop it way before it came close to earth or divert it?

[D H]

An expert in the field of meteors say if the meteor

would have exploded closer to the Earth there could

of been a 100,000 causalities this would give benevolent

aliens a reason to intercept it and cause it to explode at a

higher altitude. This interview is very interesting and informative.

 

Nonsense. Richard Hoagland is an expert in two things, crackpottery and parting fools from their money.

[Tim the plumber]

I know the instant reaction of this is "here we go again" but have a look at the video and see if you also think that it looks like a missile hits the thing from behind causing bits of meteor to fly off forwards. That speeding up is (I think) inconsistant with a low pressure explosion due to internal ice flashing to steam.

 

There are stories of an alien guardian angel. I'm more betting on a Russian strategic defence system.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2MIA3OjzU

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

New thread merged

[Semjase]

Finally some acknowledgement out of Russia that

a UFO struck the meteor causing it to explode which has

been identified by many people.

 

http://www.skynews.com.au/offbeat/article.aspx?id=850395

 

 

 

[John Cuthber]

From that page "The event was filmed by a number of spectators with many people identifying a UFO"

Lol.

[Semjase]

Here's another article substantiating the possibility of a UFO

striking the meteor prior to it exploding.

 

"But facts began to emerge. In the internet began to appear videos,
at least three of which were similar, on which you can see how an object
catches the meteorite.

"Such a number of videos, made from different angles, makes us believe that something blew up the meteorite."

Komanev also claimed there was a spike in the number of UFO sightings
in the days before the meteor lit up the skies over Chelyabinsk.

 

Read more:http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/441162/20130301/russia-meteor-ufo.htm

[John Cuthber]

"Komanev also claimed there was a spike in the number of UFO sightings

in the days before the meteor lit up the skies over Chelyabinsk."

They were probably looking for the other meteor.

[DimaMazin]

What was temperature of the meteorite in cosmos(close to the Earth)?There could be a water in the meteorite?

[John Cuthber]

OK, lets think about this.

Imagine a concrete cube a metre on each side approaching the earth at 20km/sec.

At it travels through the vacuum of space nothing much happens.

In the outer reaches of the atmosphere it reaches a point (Somewhere near the outer reaches of the stratosphere I think) where the air is about a thousand times less dense than at sea level- about 1 gram per metre cubed.

It has to push that air out of the way.

Consider what happens in the next millisecond. It moves forward 20 metres and, in doing so it sweeps a 20m3 volume of air out of its way.

To do so it accelerates that air to roughly the speed of the block. (It's an approximation, but I think we can live with it.)

So, it accelerates 20 grams of air to 20,000 m/s in 0.001 seconds

The momentum transfer is 400 kgm/s

(20,000 *20 but divided by 1000 to convert the air mass from grams to kilograms.)

And the rate of change of momentum is 1000 times that (because the transfer takes 1/1000 sec)

So the force is 400,000 newtons

That's quite a big number but it's spread over the whole surface of the block so it's the equivalent of just 4 times normal atmospheric pressure.

It's 400KPa in SI units

 

As the rock carries on the rate at which it has to shove air out of the way rises with the density of the air.

Once the air density reaches 10 grams per cubic metre the pressure has increased to 4000 KPa and when the block is travelling through air with just a tenth of the density of normal air at the surface the pressure on the windward face is something like 40MPa

 

Now, according to this website

http://www.cement.org/tech/faq_strength.asp

the compressive strength of concrete is (depending on the mix etc.) of the order of 15 to 140 MPa.

And, of course, that's measured at normal temperatures.

 

If the block were travelling through air of normal density- the stuff we are breathing, the forces on it would be at least 3 times higher than it's compressive strength (measured at normal temperatures). In essence the arse end of it would be trying to overtake the front end and the stuff in the middle would get crushed.

 

 

So, Semjase, why in the name of all that's holy do you think that anything needed to shoot it to make it break up?

 

Never mind aliens, high school physics is able to explain this.

[Semjase]

OK, lets think about this.

Imagine a concrete cube a metre on each side approaching the earth at 20km/sec.

At it travels through the vacuum of space nothing much happens.

In the outer reaches of the atmosphere it reaches a point (Somewhere near the outer reaches of the stratosphere I think) where the air is about a thousand times less dense than at sea level- about 1 gram per metre cubed.

It has to push that air out of the way.

Consider what happens in the next millisecond. It moves forward 20 metres and, in doing so it sweeps a 20m3 volume of air out of its way.

To do so it accelerates that air to roughly the speed of the block. (It's an approximation, but I think we can live with it.)

So, it accelerates 20 grams of air to 20,000 m/s in 0.001 seconds

The momentum transfer is 400 kgm/s

(20,000 *20 but divided by 1000 to convert the air mass from grams to kilograms.)

And the rate of change of momentum is 1000 times that (because the transfer takes 1/1000 sec)

So the force is 400,000 newtons

That's quite a big number but it's spread over the whole surface of the block so it's the equivalent of just 4 times normal atmospheric pressure.

It's 400KPa in SI units

 

As the rock carries on the rate at which it has to shove air out of the way rises with the density of the air.

Once the air density reaches 10 grams per cubic metre the pressure has increased to 4000 KPa and when the block is travelling through air with just a tenth of the density of normal air at the surface the pressure on the windward face is something like 40MPa

 

Now, according to this website

http://www.cement.org/tech/faq_strength.asp

the compressive strength of concrete is (depending on the mix etc.) of the order of 15 to 140 MPa.

And, of course, that's measured at normal temperatures.

 

If the block were travelling through air of normal density- the stuff we are breathing, the forces on it would be at least 3 times higher than it's compressive strength (measured at normal temperatures). In essence the arse end of it would be trying to overtake the front end and the stuff in the middle would get crushed.

 

 

So, Semjase, why in the name of all that's holy do you think that anything needed to shoot it to make it break up?

 

Never mind aliens, high school physics is able to explain this.

 

 

The compression strength of chondrite is 14 MPa, the meteor reportedly broke up at

75,000 feet and the air density at that altitude is approximately 1/25 that of sea level.

Depending on the aerodynamics of the meteor, maybe the meteor shouldn't of broken

up at that high an altitude considering the compressive strength of chondrite, this

gives credibility to the UFO theory.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

So the numbers you quoted suggest that chondrite is weaker than concrete. How does this lead you to conclude it shouldn't have broken up on its own?

[Semjase]

So the numbers you quoted suggest that chondrite is weaker than concrete. How does this lead you to conclude it shouldn't have broken up on its own?

 

14 MPa is a compressive strength of 2050 psi which is a ton per square inch. Lets do a rough estimate on the meteor if it was a 30 foot

cube, then it has a surface area on one side of 30*30*144 = 130,000 square inches. At 1 ton per square inch the drag resistance

would have to be 130,000 tons to shatter the meteor, which is a very rough figure, but gives you an idea the forces required to

shatter it. A compressive strength test on the meteor fragments may shed some light on the fact, that the drag resistance at 75,000 feet

was enough to shatter the meteor.

[John Cuthber]

Well, we may not have used quite the same maths, but we came to the same conclusion.

Air resistance would have produced enough force to shatter the meteor.

No need for aliens.

Why did you say they were involved?

 

Incidentally, measuring the bits of the meteor which "survived" will obviously overestimate the strength of the thing as a whole, but we don't know by how much.

[Semjase]

Well, we may not have used quite the same maths, but we came to the same conclusion.

Air resistance would have produced enough force to shatter the meteor.

No need for aliens.

Why did you say they were involved?

 

Incidentally, measuring the bits of the meteor which "survived" will obviously overestimate the strength of the thing as a whole, but we don't know by how much.

 

I miss-phrased my English, I should of said that it was possible that the meteor would be

shattered do to air resistance depending on uncertain variables, it is also possible that

it wouldn't be shattered due to the same uncertain variables, which leaves the UFO

theory which has photographic and eyewitness evidence, this Daily Mail article

clearly presents the UFO case.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2286035/Did-UFO-shoot-Russian-meteorite-blasting-smithereens-Now-conspiracy-theorists-launch-extraordinary-claims-new-footage-emerges.html

[pwagen]

 

I miss-phrased my English, I should of said that it was possible that the meteor would be

shattered do to air resistance depending on uncertain variables, it is also possible that

it wouldn't be shattered due to the same uncertain variables, which leaves the UFO

theory which has photographic and eyewitness evidence,

No it doesn't and no it doesn't. Just because there are "uncertain variables" doesn't automatically mean a supernatural explanation is the right one. And lens flares in grainy videos do not constitute as evidence.

[John Cuthber]

14 MPa is a compressive strength of 2050 psi which is a ton per square inch. Lets do a rough estimate on the meteor if it was a 30 foot

cube, then it has a surface area on one side of 30*30*144 = 130,000 square inches. At 1 ton per square inch the drag resistance

would have to be 130,000 tons to shatter the meteor, which is a very rough figure, but gives you an idea the forces required to

shatter it. A compressive strength test on the meteor fragments may shed some light on the fact, that the drag resistance at 75,000 feet

was enough to shatter the meteor.

 

OK, the rock came in at about 20,000 m/s

A 30 foot square is about 10 metres by 10 metres.

That's about 100 times more area than in the quick calculation I did earlier.

And, of course, it's sweeping out about 100 times more air in a given time, so the force is 100 times bigger and the net effect is that the pressure is roughly the same.

 

You say the rock will stand 14MPa in compression which is in the same ballpark as the figure I gave for concrete (it's a bit lower than the bottom end of the range I used)

You get 400 K Pa for each thousandth of an atmosphere of air pressure so, you need about 35 thousandths of an atmosphere

You say it broke up when the pressure was about 1/25 atm i.e. about 40 thousandths.

 

That's about as good an agreement as I could have hoped for.

The rock broke up just where science predicts.

 

 

On the other hand, if the aliens were trying to help us, they should really have hit it sooner.

So the actual data scores one for the science and nil for the alien conspiracy nutters.

 

BTW, the daily mail isn't really a newspaper: it's a bit like Fox News.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

 

 

Semjase, I have tried to watch your hour long video from u tube, about the interviews ,regarding the various coincidences. The second half seems missing. silent.

 

Have you got a link with the complete interview as even the u-tube version seemed to have the second half missing.

 

 

I,m looking over my shoulder a lot these last few weeks !

 

Mike