I'd Just like to let you guys know

[LowWattBulb]

Popcorn, I say this with all due respect and I don't mean it in any derogatory way. Mental health issues are mishandled many times, even by professionals such as doctors and nurses, and well meaning family members can make issues worse. I have doubt that you had a very negative experience regarding psychiatric care, and I have no doubt it was extremely traumatic for you. That being said, it does seem evident from your posts that you do suffer from some form of mental illness. But it does seem that you need professional help, and I hope you get it.

[Iggy]

Im pretty sure that I can't access any probable presumptions about why I was diagnosed schizophrenic unfortunately, but I do have heterochromia and I did move out of my house when I turned 21 but had to move back in with my parents. I thought we lived an average life but I think I was raised in a low social class (suicidal friends, parents who worked semi low class jobs [my mom worked at banks and insurance companies, and my dad worked his way up the latter at an autoglass company]) My brother became a cop and he was always expressing authority over me.

 

Enough about me. I don't want to get too personal.

 

Fair enough.

 

I remembered while reading your response that I called wellbutrin an MAOI. I was pulling that from memory and it was wrong. It's a dopamine reuptake inhibitor among other things. Needed to correct.

---

 

I have doubt that you had a very negative experience regarding psychiatric care, and I have no doubt it was extremely traumatic for you.

 

I can't help but ask, is that a typo? If you mean to say that you doubt he had a negative experience and that was very traumatic... I can't square what you mean.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Iggy

[Popcorn Sutton]

I was wondering the same thing, I just assumed it was. Yea I'm getting treatment but Im not taking antidepressants anymore

[LowWattBulb]

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant to say "I have no doubt you had a negative experience."

[Popcorn Sutton]

I just recently saw a commercial for something like an anti depressant. It explicitly stated at the end of the commercial that there is a chance for heart attacks and strokes. Thank you for adding this disclaimer, however, these drugs should not exist because of how high the risk is.

[iNow]

I just recently saw a commercial for something like an anti depressant. It explicitly stated at the end of the commercial that there is a chance for heart attacks and strokes. Thank you for adding this disclaimer, however, these drugs should not exist because of how high the risk is.

 

But risk is a very relative term. There's a risk of drinking too much water and dying as a result of it, but we still need water. There's a risk that insulin will kill you if you take too much, but people still need it in various amounts to survive. There's a risk that driving your car will result in a fatal accident, but we still need them to commute and work and exist in this world. There's a risk that pregnancy will kill the mother, but we still need to procreate to avoid species collapse.

 

Likewise, some people are a much greater risk from their depression than they will ever be at risk of heart or stroke issues from taking anti-depressants. Each individual must weigh those risks and decide for themselves with help from their doctors what is the best path to take, and frankly it's irresponsible and dangerous for you to continue suggesting otherwise with practically every post you make.

 

You've made clear that you have had some bad personal experiences with these meds. I'm sorry you've had to go through that, and your feelings are understandable. You've also shared some good information about possible side effects that many people may not have been aware of, and I thank you for that.

 

I just ask that you please recall that your personal situation and personal experiences are not representative of everyone else, that you should seek to avoid making absolutist declarations or arguments for eradication of meds like these such as you have, and that you recognize there are several instances where the potential for benefit of these meds far outweigh the potential for harm depending on a persons individual circumstances and needs.

[Popcorn Sutton]

You know what? If I had a stroke, did it benefit me? At the time, I was severely depressed, after my stroke (if that is what it was), I was scared. It was not pleasant. But after things settled down, I looked back and forgot most of the stuff that was causing my depression. I had alot of anger towards people who have rejected me for various reasons. I've gone through alot of rejection, and I made it one of my goals in life to reduce the fear and consequences of rejection to something minute, not only for me, but for everyone. And that is partially why I want computers to be our literal best friends. Computers probably won't reject you, they can't run away. In any case, I took a test and it showed that I was severely depressed. It just makes me sick to know that something like taking a bullet to the head is required for curing this so called disease. Theres got to be other ways of dealing with this problem instead of conflicting with ones instinct to preserve their body and avoid pain.

[menageriemanor]

I'd just like to say I am sad that you have had a traumatic experience. There are some very kind and compassionate people on this site, and perhaps they can advise you how to approach doctors, to understand what you do and don't need, and the information to make those decisions. If you are feeling alone and cornered, you need to find some good medics and social workers, who will go with you, explain your fears, and discuss what the problems on both sides, might be. Many people have parents they realise they can't rely on, whatever their class. Sad fact is, many parents are walking wounded from their own life experiences, it is rare that a parent sets out to damage their child, they just get things wrong, don't understand, or become scared, or are so damaged themselves, they can't fix their behaviour. We just have to learn to block hurts, even if we have to move away. It does sound as tho you need them for now.

 

Have you gently asked what they are fearing from your behaviour? Maybe you don't realise what you do, that has them react so badly? Don't see this as a blame game conversation, but an information gathering exercise. Neither side accusing, just explaining. Find a service that does have lovely, kindly social workers that can go with you, discuss things calmly, be a supporter to you. At some point, tho, if everyone really, earnestly believes you need help, you have to trust them. Often, we don't understand our effect on others. As I said, if you have great worries about certain medication, get your supporter to make sure it is understood, and you get something to lessen the symptoms you fear. It seems that a lot of your distress is feeling you aren't being listened to, and no one has your back. Yet you must understand, that sometimes, those feelings are caused by your illness.

 

As well. you are 21, your parents are happy to share their home with you, in need, but are you showing the appreciation of their kindness? Are you taking illicit drugs, are you acting in a frightening way, at home, while on these drugs or withdrawing from them? How do you know, if you are taking drugs from a drugs lab in some filthy kitchen or factory, that those drugs don't cause your health problems? You can't know what cr#p is in illegal drugs. I'm not presuming anything, just giving you things to think about. It seems a bit disengenuous to screech about regulated drugs effects, IF you then take illegal drug lab stuff, which is known to be full of rubbish, often toxic, and capable of destroying brains and killing..

 

Please remember that every medic, every social worker, is an individual. There are some a*ses, they are only human beings, no better than anyone alse, but well educated. BUT there are also unbelievably good, kind people who genuinely care so much for people. One of the kindest, wisest, best people I know, is an English nurse. She suffered from depression herself, and was medicated. She is truly special, and has 4 huskies/mals, very much a handful, my idea of dog hell. I have gentle dogs, who live with sheep, hens, cats, won't hurt anything, from stick insect to snake. Had a very venomous snake in my kitchen, and if they'd tried to attack, they'd be dead, but they don't hassle anything, because everything living is apparently Mum's (me) best friend. So they ignored it, and I chased it out. Sorry I digressed, but that nurse even takes on really demanding dogs on her time off!

 

Then, medication. There are often ranges in strength, different ways of achieving goals.Medications to lessen effects. Lots of people function on meds, but have to faff about to get things right, long term. Take your trusted social worker, try tiny doses, build up. AND be fair, if you take illicit drugs, that can vary from each batch, you can't blame the hospital drugs for symptoms.

[random]

Hey popcorn I had a similar experience, placed in a secure mental institution against my will. From my experience it has to be court ordered for any treatment to be administered, UNLESS, the individual is posing a significant threat to themselves or others in which case several orderlies will restrain the individual while a medication is administered and they will be placed in observation.

 

I only witnessed it never experienced it so the medication I assume is a sedative and possible anti psychotic combination.

 

The "patient" has to be in very poor condition for a court to order treatment. From the perspective of criminal court, If you can understand who the judge is and their role in a basic manner (he decides if you win or lose) and if you understand the possible outcomes of trial (I can win or lose, if I lose I might go to jail) you are deemed fit to stand trial.

 

In my opinion even a delusional and paranoid individual in the midst of a psychotic episode can understand this yet be very incapable of directing or assisting their lawyer with information that could lead to a verdict of innocence.But it reinforces my point of just how far gone an individual has to be in order for the court to order treatment.

 

Anyway during my stay no medication was administered, I was given a diagnosis of " a severe psychotic illness" because of the timeframe (later accurately diagnosed schizo-affective ) but still deemed fit to stand trial.

 

Anyway, please don't take offence but I feel your not giving members here the whole story. I know your upset, feel stepped on, rights violated etc. so do I. but the law is very clear when treatment can be "forced" Different methods of persuasion and coercion are not really forced treatment. Though the threat of injecting you if you don't take medication orally does cross the line.

I have to weigh in on SSRI's too, I don't like them either when I did take them I got fat, lethargic and emotionally detached. The withdrawal was horrible, I could go on and on. There are many different SSRI's available making it possible to find one for your unique body composition. Citalopram showed the least side effects for me with positive results but I quickly developed a tolerance. Trazadone made me sleep about 16 hours a day and the new form of citalopram also does this. All of them killed sex drive.

 

That being said I have several friends very grateful for SSRI's that helped them get their lives back.

 

On a final note that "stroke" you claim that "felt like a gunshot".......that's a common side effect of both withdrawal from SSRI's and also while your body adjusts to the medication commonly referred to as "brain zaps" I don't know if there is a proper medical term. It feels like an explosion in your head with loss of balance, coordination, disruptions in your ability to communicate etc. All which could very easily be confused with a stroke. But it's not a stroke. See a doctor they will be able to confirm if your self diagnosis is accurate. I speak from personal experience I suffered the same effect and was concerned it was a serious medical condition.

 

I'm no doctor but common sense dictates they should have started you with a lower dose to build your bodies tolerance to the medication.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I'd just like to say I am sad that you have had a traumatic experience. There are some very kind and compassionate people on this site, and perhaps they can advise you how to approach doctors, to understand what you do and don't need, and the information to make those decisions. If you are feeling alone and cornered, you need to find some good medics and social workers, who will go with you, explain your fears, and discuss what the problems on both sides, might be. Many people have parents they realise they can't rely on, whatever their class. Sad fact is, many parents are walking wounded from their own life experiences, it is rare that a parent sets out to damage their child, they just get things wrong, don't understand, or become scared, or are so damaged themselves, they can't fix their behaviour. We just have to learn to block hurts, even if we have to move away. It does sound as tho you need them for now.

I do need them for now because I can't live in my car, the cops won't allow that. Unfortunately, their behavior is so fixed that I can't have any decent conversation with them. I am literally being nagged to death every time I am in their presence. My entire family seems to hate me, that much is obvious from their behavior. They are always passive aggressive when they talk to me. My dad will say things but every time he says something, he basically has the same subsumption. He blames everything on me. I don't even want to talk about it, it brings me a lot of unjustified anxiety. Every time they talk to me or send me a message or something, it might say something like "where are you" but really it means "I hate you, come home and clean". I get paralyzed every time I interact with them, and the paralysis lasts. I literally can't say anything to them that will cause them to be nice to me or get off my back, so recently I've just decided, I'm not going to interact with them any more than I have to. I get a message like, "where are you" and I send back "on earth", to which they respond "answer me now or I'm going to be pissed", but it doesn't even matter because they already are pissed at that point and they have been pissed at me for over 10 years now. And when I say that they paralyze me, I literally mean that I cannot have a single constructive though after they say anything to me. My mind gets fixed on my hatred and isn't constructive at all. I'm really not a bad person, they have no good reasons to be angry with me. "What are you doing?" I answered this question honestly for the first time yesterday, "I'm doing math." I'm not a normal boy in any way, and they are not normal parents. If your kid was doing math, would you be pissed? How can you be pissed if your kid spends most of their free time researching, writing computer programs, doing math, and stuff like that? My parents are embarrassing, paralyzing, destructive, and flat out abusive. They don't physically abuse me (normally) but they abuse the shit out of me mentally. Yesterday I was coming up with a theory (which was exciting to say the least) and I happened to receive a text message from my mom. Immediately and uncontestably, my mind focused on hatred. "Where are you" is then the most important question in the world and my future life depends on the answer to this question. It's ridiculous, I can't stand their behavior. The other day, I decided to post a semi-controversial status on facebook "I hate porn", my mom, dad, and brother all gave me a bunch of shit for it and demanded that I delete the status. Good conversations came from that status. I'm on the verge of deleting my family from facebook.

 

I could go on for days about how bad they are, but this is a science forum, and the things that get published on this forum should be goal oriented in some way. That being said. Here are the generalities of their behavior, and I will provide (honestly) the pragmatic aspects that led to the behavior and its fixed nature.

 

Generalities-

Passive Agression-

Ex. (mom opens the door) "What are you doing?" "I'm writing an essay mom" "You need to clean this room its ridiculous" (this happens often and as I said, it paralyzes me, interrupts my train of thought, pisses me off, and is completely destructive. I don't have the time or energy to maintain a perfectly clean room, the request is unreasonable. Eventually the room will become maximally entropic, which means that it is perfectly in order, but appears disorderly. Right now, "Did you take one of them antibiotics?" "Yes I did" "You gonna go eat your whopper?" "no not right now" (you need to hear the tone of the voice though to understand that it is passive aggressive)

Dad- straight forward, no bullshit, "what are you guys doing?" (me and my friend) "we're talking" "the nights over"

 

No possibility of change-

No matter what they say, it always has the same tone (condescending and hateful). I've pointed it out several times "Mom, I'm actually trying to speak smart with you right now so we can work through this issue" "Mer mer mer nag nag nag" "Do you notice your behavior? There is a pattern there, and it hasn't changed and it probably won't change." "Mer mer nag nag nag" "Can't we be friends? Can we be nice to each other?" "I AM nice to you, you just don't do what I tell you to do!" (she's not nice at all, she probably hates me)

The pattern of behavior has persisted throughout my entire life now that I think about it. She used to grab my arm, get a really nasty look on her face, stare me blank in the eyes, and dig her nails into my skin while telling me what I "will" do.

 

Hating all my friends.

 

Always telling me to do something (and if I do it, then you can be sure that there is something else to do next).

The most important information in their life is completely stupid, often abusive and very degrading (paralyzing) sentences and questions. All of which have a condescending tone to them.

 

Hating everything I do. Heaven forbid if I sit on the toilet too long.

 

 

The pragmatic aspect that heightens the psychosis involved is whenever I do something that they don't want me to do... or don't do something that they wan't me to do.

 

I'm done talking about this, it seriously isn't going to change, and I don't think anyone can help unless they're giving me a paycheck I can live off of.

 

(NB. I work for my dad and get paid shit. The job is very stressful and unfortunately, my dad is the top dog, so his behavior has pervaded through the business. Incidentally, I'm probably a source of stress for my coworkers because they know my dad is the big guy).

 

And, to reply to random's post.

 

I've been diagnosed schizophrenic, schizo-affective, mild to moderately bipolar, non schizophrenic, not bipolar.

 

The diagnoses are just labels that the doctors need to use for insurance purposes.

 

I'm not sure if I have a mental disorder, I got along just fine without medication for a very long time until the day my dad cornered me and chased me and dragged me by my collar to a psych ward.

 

I'm pretty sure that all of my "mental problems" can be successfully linked back to my family and the way people have treated me. I became schizo because I gained a lot of fame at my university for teaching classes (I could hear everyone talking about me, it was very disturbing. I hate when people talk about someone in their proximity and assume that that person can't hear what is being said. I'm pretty sure that I can hear a whisper in China if it's directed towards me)

[iNow]

I much more thoughtful take on the subject:

 

http://www.ted.com/talks/david_anderson_your_brain_is_more_than_a_bag_of_chemicals.html

Modern psychiatric drugs treat the chemistry of the whole brain, but neurobiologist David Anderson believes in a more nuanced view of how the brain functions. He illuminates new research that could lead to targeted psychiatric medications -- that work better and avoid side effects. How's he doing it? For a start, by making a bunch of fruit flies angry. (Filmed at TEDxCaltech.)

[Espresso Beans]

Hello Everyone,

 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but this thread seems to be a general "f.u" to the mental health care system v.s the "healing and recovering" prespective that it can offer.

 

I am a nurse and my first student placement was in a hospital psych ward short-term emergencies where the most popular options were either relocation to a long-term care facility - when they were openings or back into the community hopefully with the right support i.e social workers, doctors, family, friends, a plan to maintain contact between the patient and the health care system.

 

Its to bad but stories such as Baryon's and Popcorn Suttons are all too common. Individauls feel they are misdiganosied, are being forced to take medication (which in Canada nobody can force you to take any medication) I do admitthere is a special mental health act law in some (maybe all?) proviences/terratories (spelling?) that allows doctors and first-responders to force you to stay in care if you are a threat to yourself or others and in some cases court orders can be put in place where you seriously harm another and need to be transfered to a long-term care facility...such as in the case of a something like - a murder - where a person was [medically speaking] tripping major-balls.

I dont know so much about the American experince (where I am assuming most of you are) but I will say in Canada our mental health system has some "pros" to it but also a lot of "cons" - mostly I blame it on funding. Canadians are proud of universal (to some degree) health care but that doesnt mean it isnt underfunded especially in areas that are highly stimigatized (such as mental health) and there are a lot of gaps. Its sad, but most of the gaps in mental health are covered by non-profit agencies, which while doing a wonderful job, often attract undereducated individauls who dont know always know what to say other then the usual - mental health recovery is possible, you need to practice self-care, try and find some friends, come down to our office when you feel blue...

Our mental health system is often so stretched that the only patients admited to beds are those who are highly suicidal or at an extreme risk to the public.

However, I believe in a better world for me and you. The best mental health pratices are preventive in my opinion. I am offically diganoised bi-polar. At this point in my life I have been in flow-blown maina four times and expeirnced month long major dpressions after those short seven to ten day manias. Chemmical threapies (such as SSRIS) are really... only one piece of the puzzle. I practice yoga, go to the gym, write in a journal, take long walks, eat healthy and watch a wack load of comedies to try and keep my mind mentally balanced.

Further I also think its really really important to have a plan for when you mind is racing and you start deciding to do things you may regret such as contacting your doctor in that moment, using 911 (or whatever your emergency number is), going to an emergency room, calling good friends, a mental health team, etc

Either way the points about mental health systems needing work are totally totally valid and I hope to see postive changes in the future.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Espresso Beans

[Popcorn Sutton]

Like I've said before, I think that mental disorders are pragmatically acquired. I don't believe that we are born schizophrenic or bipolar or whatever it may be. I believe that a mental disorder can be traced back to an initial occurrence, one that people may not want to talk about because of how judgmental the world is. If we take this stance and find out a good way to find the location of a memory that caused the disorder, we could target the memory and either inhibit it or eliminate it. Whatever method we use to do that needs to be extremely precise though because at this point, ssri's and other anti depressants target large portions of the brain, and if stroke is a side effect of the medication (look it up you'll see the evidence that this is the case), then the stroke could, and often will be, cognitively incapacitating.

 

I don't think we want to be blamed for someones disability, it's best that we avoid that before someone truly decides to take action.

[random]

Maclean's magazine, march 25 2013 contained an interesting read on mental illness, I personally agree with alot of the points identified,

 

Particularily, Many illnesses in the new DSM 5 aren't even science based they are manufactured from a panel of psychiatrist's personal beliefs and theories.

 

Traditionally in science you make a hypothesis, test it and hand it over to other scientists to confirm your results, That doesn't seem to be the case with this highly regarded diagnostic tool anymore.

 

I think it could be a helpful and encouraging read for you Popcorn Sutton. Maybe some of the desires you expressed in this thread will become a reality.

[Popcorn Sutton]

I hate to say this, but I think I could do a much better job at taking care of myself than a doctor. If only I had a trustworthy source for the resources I need.

[iNow]

I hate to say this, but I think I could do a much better job at taking care of myself than a doctor.

 

Despite the fact that you lack the same years of training, countless experiences, practice with others in similar situations, and a relatively objective unbiased perspective on your situation and issues?

[Iggy]

I hate to say this, but I think I could do a much better job at taking care of myself than a doctor. If only I had a trustworthy source for the resources I need.

 

You might consider that the best care of oneself that one can take is with the care of a doctor. I mean, that's the doctor's job. If you've got one of those to do that then good on you, mate.

[Popcorn Sutton]

A doctor, a great base of knowledge, and access to any medication I feel that I would need. No hassle, no worries, hopefully a smooth recovery.

 

That would be nice