The Strength of Faith

[Phi for All]

That's like saying a coke didn't come out of the vending machine because they didn't push the quarter in forcefully enough. That's just silly. Sometimes the answer is a flat out "No".

 

Analogies fail often. God isn't as tangible as a vending machine, and when you don't get your Coke there are observable reasons why. How can you know if your prayer was answered in the negative, or if your faith isn't strong enough, or if there's simply no one listening? All three of those possibilities are unfalsifiable.

[Ralij]

Analogies fail often. God isn't as tangible as a vending machine, and when you don't get your Coke there are observable reasons why. How can you know if your prayer was answered in the negative, or if your faith isn't strong enough, or if there's simply no one listening? All three of those possibilities are unfalsifiable.

When you have a relationship with the divine options two and three vanish.

[iNow]

When you have a relationship with the divine options two and three vanish.

So does your connection with reality in the rational world.

[Ringer]

When you have a relationship with the divine options two and three vanish.

Unless your relationship is carnal two and three are still there.

[Ralij]

So does your connection with reality in the rational world.

The connection with the rational world is intact, but I cannot say the same of the connection with smug elitists who think they are omnipotent.

[Moontanman]

The connection with the rational world is intact, but I cannot say the same of the connection with smug elitists who think they are omnipotent.

 

 

The irony in that is thick enough to choke a T-Rex....

[Phi for All]

When you have a relationship with the divine options two and three vanish.

 

If it's a relationship, was there a time in the beginning of it when your faith wasn't as strong as it is now?

 

If it's a relationship, how can the connection be evaluated by anything other than your own one-sided perceptions and interpretations?

 

Is faith something that can start out more like hope before it eventually becomes steadfast and abiding and unwavering and unquestioning?

[rigney]

If it's a relationship, was there a time in the beginning of it when your faith wasn't as strong as it is now?

 

If it's a relationship, how can the connection be evaluated by anything other than your own one-sided perceptions and interpretations?

 

Is faith something that can start out more like hope before it eventually becomes steadfast and abiding and unwavering and unquestioning?

I'm not much of a believer, but when a classy guy like Reagan spoke his mind as he did, it made me wonder?

Edited February 25, 2013 by rigney

[Moontanman]

Ronald Reagan's opinions on religious faith is no better than any other person deluded into believing faith is something to be proud of...

[Phi for All]

I'm not much of a believer, but when a classy guy like Reagan spoke his mind as he did, it made me wonder?

 

There's no doubt in my mind that faith can be a source of inspiration to many. Reagan had great writers and professional training in speaking publicly to deliver such inspiration.

 

What I'm questioning here is why do so many choose to invest in the supernatural with their most unquestioning, unwavering and steadfast form of belief, their faith, while almost simultaneously investing so little of their belief in scientific methodologies that explain natural, reality-based phenomena with such accuracy and productiveness? Why does something with nothing but strong feelings to support it deserve the strongest form of belief?

[Ralij]

The irony in that is thick enough to choke a T-Rex....

It would only be irony if I claimed to be omnipotent, which I do not, merely that I know this one thing. Claiming something exists is much smaller dose of ability than to claim something does not.

[Moontanman]

It would only be irony if I claimed to be omnipotent, which I do not, merely that I know this one thing. Claiming something exists is much smaller dose of ability than to claim something does not.

 

 

Quite the contrary, both would require positive evidence, what is your point?

[Ralij]

If it's a relationship, was there a time in the beginning of it when your faith wasn't as strong as it is now?

 

If it's a relationship, how can the connection be evaluated by anything other than your own one-sided perceptions and interpretations?

 

Is faith something that can start out more like hope before it eventually becomes steadfast and abiding and unwavering and unquestioning?

When you know someone, you know someone, in the same manner that I have faith that you exist. How would one evaluate a connection with a friend other than asking them or others who know them? There are plenty of others who know the same person, so its not one sided in that it comes from myself only. There are no question in the 'does the divine exist' sense, but there is always the 'why was this course of action taken' and more importantly the 'how the actions were taken' of them. God created the heavens and the Earth, but such things are not explained in detail. Did they pop into existence like a cartoon? Did it take place over a long period of time and using what processes? A day passes yet there is no sun yet so what qualifies as a day and how long is it in comparison with what we know of? There are questions upon questions, even before one gets into the quagmire of translations from a dead language to a modern one, but the existence of Him is not a question to me. I do accept that there are questions left unanswered satisfactorially. Scientifically I accept that there is no hard evidence in the same way that is usual or at least is not accepted as such, but I'll wait for it. In the meantime, even if I am crazy, if I go out of my way to help others as I believe to have been told I see no harm in it since I do not believe in violence, war, or hatred (or even anger to a great extent, though I fail at this as it is in my nature to react to such things in such a way, but that would remain as a part of me, regardless as to my religious beliefs) in the name of religion or faith.

 

Quite the contrary, both would require positive evidence, what is your point?

I have the evidence in my own experience, I only need that bit of knowledge to know of existance, whereas knowing something does not exist one must know literally everything to prove that it doesn't.

[Moontanman]

When you know someone, you know someone, in the same manner that I have faith that you exist. How would one evaluate a connection with a friend other than asking them or others who know them? There are plenty of others who know the same person, so its not one sided in that it comes from myself only. There are no question in the 'does the divine exist' sense, but there is always the 'why was this course of action taken' and more importantly the 'how the actions were taken' of them. God created the heavens and the Earth, but such things are not explained in detail. Did they pop into existence like a cartoon? Did it take place over a long period of time and using what processes? A day passes yet there is no sun yet so what qualifies as a day and how long is it in comparison with what we know of? There are questions upon questions, even before one gets into the quagmire of translations from a dead language to a modern one, but the existence of Him is not a question to me. I do accept that there are questions left unanswered satisfactorially. Scientifically I accept that there is no hard evidence in the same way that is usual or at least is not accepted as such, but I'll wait for it. In the meantime, even if I am crazy, if I go out of my way to help others as I believe to have been told I see no harm in it since I do not believe in violence, war, or hatred (or even anger to a great extent, though I fail at this as it is in my nature to react to such things in such a way, but that would remain as a part of me, regardless as to my religious beliefs) in the name of religion or faith.

Why do you have to have faith in a supernatural being to do that?

I have the evidence in my own experience, I only need that bit of knowledge to know of existance, whereas knowing something does not exist one must know literally everything to prove that it doesn't.

 

 

If you cannot show it then you do not know it.... There is no positive evidence of the existence of a god, gods, or goddesses, in the face of lack of positive evidence the default position is "there are no gods"...

Edited February 26, 2013 by Moontanman

[Ralij]

Why do you have to have faith in a supernatural being to do that?

I don't, by any means, but if a supernatural being does not exist that is the greatest effect I can think that the philosophy would have on my impact on my community is that I may go out of my way a little bit more often than I otherwise may have.

[Moontanman]

I don't, by any means, but if a supernatural being does not exist that is the greatest effect I can think that the philosophy would have on my impact on my community is that I may go out of my way a little bit more often than I otherwise may have.

 

 

Why? Does your faith make you be a good person when in fact you would rather not be? I do not share "faith" in anything supernatural and yet i strive to help my fellow man, improve my society and do no harm to anyone, why can you not do that with no supernatural being to make sure you do so?

[Ralij]

Not saying that you wouldn't, by any means, I'm just naturally lazy (or its just living with allergens, but that may or may not be just an excuse) and need an extra bit of 'push' at times.

[Moontanman]

Not saying that you wouldn't, by any means, I'm just naturally lazy (or its just living with allergens, but that may or may not be just an excuse) and need an extra bit of 'push' at times.

If that's what it takes for you then I guess it's what you need but does it justify the billions of dollars that go down the black hole of religion very year due to faith?

[Ringer]

I don't, by any means, but if a supernatural being does not exist that is the greatest effect I can think that the philosophy would have on my impact on my community is that I may go out of my way a little bit more often than I otherwise may have.

With that logic non-theists who do equal good would be 'better' people would they not? Which I would think a just being would reward those who do good to do good instead of doing good because they are under pressure from another being. Therefore wouldn't being non-theist be the better option if one wants to be as good a person as they can be.

[iNow]

The connection with the rational world is intact, but I cannot say the same of the connection with smug elitists who think they are omnipotent.

 

Are you referring to me? Do people think I'm smug and elitist for not believing in Thor, or do I think I'm omnipotent for not believing in the tooth fairy?

[Moontanman]

No doubt, all you non tooth fairy crazies are smug...

[rigney]

Ronald Reagan's opinions on religious faith is no better than any other person deluded into believing faith is something to be proud of...

I know that statement isn't your reason for taking science as being verbatim, or is it?. Should it be said that what you have been taught to understand about science is to be believed without question? No! Without it being falsabiable to you it isn't scientific at all, right? While I'm not making a case for Christianity or religion in general, to make a blatent assumption as you have that it is all hog wash simply because you can't accept it, is very foolish indeed.

[Moontanman]

I know that statement isn't your reason for taking science as being verbatim, or is it?. Should it be said that what you have been taught to understand about science is to be believed without question? No! Without it being falsabiable to you it isn't scientific at all, right? While I'm not making a case for Christianity or religion in general, to make a blatent assumption as you have that it is all hog wash simply because you can't accept it, is very foolish indeed.

 

 

Since you know what you have asserted is hogwash I'm not sure how to respond, Reagan's views on faith are no better grounded in reality than anyone else's...

[rigney]

Since you know what you have asserted is hogwash I'm not sure how to respond, Reagan's views on faith are no better grounded in reality than anyone else's...

Hog Wash? Oh! I think you know better? But unless I miss my guess, Santa passed you right on by at Christmas, and now Easter Bunny is about to do the same thing.

[Moontanman]

Hog Wash? Oh! I think you know better? But unless I miss my guess, Santa passed you right on by at Christmas,

 

If I was you i wouldn't look for Santa next year, the fool refused to identify himself and we all know what happens to home invaders...

 

and now Easter Bunny is about to do the same thing.

 

 

Fortunately for him he doesn't have come in the house to do his thing...