Very low probability of 2 advanced societies at same time in near universe

lbiarge · February 24, 2013

(hypothesis against the mainstream)

The probability of 2 advanced societies needed for the seti proyects is near 0:

To give an approximation we need consider the live of the star, our star (the Sun) has 4.57 billion years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun ) and with estimated live total of 12.3 Billion years (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_longer_do_scientists_think_the_sun_will_live)

Our advanced society has only 100 years (really many less) and probably will have few years more (oil peak, …).

In all forms we can consider 1000 years of advanced civilization for connect with other civilizations in the universe, this means that 1000/12,300,000,000 = 8.13 e-8 or 0,0000000813 (other stars have more years of life, so the division would be less – until estimated 10 trillion years - http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_old_are_stars)

Searching live extraterrestrial and the very low probability of 2 advanced civilization at same time, this is of 8.13 e-8 x 8.13 e-8 = 64 e-16. This is near infinite impossible.

Well, we are at present in supposed advanced society, so to take in count with other civilization in Milky way the relation would to be only of 8.13 e-8 and like “The Milky Way contains at least 100 billion stars^[23] and may have up to 400 billion stars” in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way this means supposing total of 400 billion stars a probably of 400 billion x 0,0000000813 = 32,520 possibilities.

But this 32,520 is far of the good answer, in our Milky way only are visible near to “5000 visible "stars"” - http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070619192110AAkkCVp

Also can speak over 84 millions of stars http://www.space.com/18193-milky-way-photo-84-millions-stars.html , this would be a better approximation but 84 millions x 0,0000000813 = 6.82 considering near 1000 years of advanced society in both planets.

Now our next question would be if we are really advanced to contact with other civilization and the answer is “NO”

Do you believe we could obtain signal from all this planets with probably live in the 84 millions of stars visible in the Milky way? Really you believe we can only listen their signals? More problems are with send signals.

Our actual technology permits us near the limit to contact with our satellites a few more that our solar system “the voyager” or the satellite send to Pluto. This technology is according to know where is the satellite, …

Probably our actual technology cannot take contact neither with the nearest start to us (“Proxima Centauri is the nearest star to the Sun” - Proxima Centauri is the nearest star to the Sun.) with a distance of about 4.24 light years (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri).

“Pluto is about four light-hours from Earth” http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071120195143AAcI3bi and “Pluto's distance from Earth makes in-depth investigation difficult. Many details about Pluto will remain unknown until 2015,” in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto so Proxima Centauri is only 24/4 = 6 x 365 x 4.24 = 9285.6 more distance that Pluto.

You can read the Communication system with voyager 1 in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1 that “includes a 3.7 meter diameter parabolic”

Really the Hubble telescope cannot give details from Pluto and that it have “Surface area of 1.665×107 km2 - or 0.033 Earths” and pretend to obtain signal of planets to many more distance.

If Hubble telescope cannot give signal of a body so big and at so low distance: Do you believe we can receive so little signal from so big distances in electromagnetic waves?

Radio telescopes may help for stars and other universe signals but not for societies signals : “Just as optical astronomers make images using the light emitted by celestial objects such as stars and galaxies, radio astronomers can make images using the radio waves emitted by such objects” - http://www.nrao.edu/index.php/learn/radioastronomy/interference

The radio telescope signal are very attenuated (speaking over the star signal) “The radio signals arriving on Earth from astronomical objects are extremely weak -- millions (or billions) of times weaker than the signals used by communication systems.”- http://www.nrao.edu/index.php/learn/radioastronomy/interference , so imagine the power of a society signal infinitely less that the big strong signal of stars.

Imagine the big power to send a signal for to be a strong near to star signal, probably all the energy of the planet would not be enough.

Also we need to add the interferences in waves for stars (“Satellite Interference By The Sun” in http://www.ips.gov.au/Educational/1/3/9 ) because any planet need to be around a star and that star would make interferences to the society signals.

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Maybe in the future a new advanced society in Earth admit connection with other planets in the universe but our advanced society is below the requirements for connect in same form that primitive man cannot contact to the antipodes.

In relation to send signal the problem is many more, we would need with actual technology transmit with a power near of a star to obtain a so little quantity of signal like stars are visible with telescopes and also transmitted in an exact direction and only in the direction of the parabolic antenna. More, also need admit a big dispersion in actual antennas by a big radio.

An example: Soho satellite lost communication with the Earth from June 24 to August 4 of 1998 by an error in “antennas were no longer angled toward Earth” - http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/space/9808/04/soho/index.html and with not so big distance from Earth. Distance of “1,500,000 km 1% of the distance to the Sun” - http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_distance_of_SOHO_satellite_from_the_earth

Probably the scientists could obtain a solution to see a probably oxygen atmosphere but this will be probably the only relation with probably live in other planets.

In same relation that with advanced societies we can make the relation with live, considering the Earth live of “life date to 3.85 billion years ago” - http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/293/when-did-life-on-earth-begin-ask-a-rock

So the relation with life is 3.85 billion/12.3 Billion years = 0.313 but in relation to live, not necessary of oxygen and without technology.

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Probably we make to consider the big quantities of money spend in live in other planets and seem near to a fraud. The probability to obtain contact with live or know existence of life is infinitely low, so near 0 in all form, same in all stars would have life. Our advanced society probably cannot take constant neither with a civilization in Proxima Centauri.

This seems only a FRAUD. An entertainment.

More information over positive result can to be show for example in:

Seti of nasa - http://history.nasa.gov/seti.html

seti@home - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI@home

For example, “The price tag for the Cyclops array was $10 billion USD” (radio telescope) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_for_extraterrestrial_intelligence , maybe be good for universe signals, fraud for life signals.

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Really connecting with other advanced civilitacion is near impossible or more. We need to add the low probability of 2 advanced societies in same time, the interferences from the star of each solar system, the antenna, the very big atenuattion with universe distances, the very big signal in relation to stars, …

But seem a good tale and in good relation to fraud or machination like UFO, …

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Thanks.

© Luis Biarge Baldellou. - webpage :

Mike Smith Cosmos · February 25, 2013

The probability of 2 advanced societies needed for the seti proyects is near 0:

John Gribbin the New Scientist commentator and Author of many science books has just published a new book on this very subject

namely : -

book called

The Reason Why - The Miracle of Life on Earth By John Gribbin

. a good read !

Edited February 25, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

lbiarge · February 25, 2013

John Gribbin the New Scientist commentator and Author of many science books has just published a new book on this very subject

namely : -

book called

The Reason Why - The Miracle of Life on Earth By John Gribbin

. a good read !

I'm against that.

look: make a few years "maybe a million civilization in Milky way, we go to make contact with theirs. Later, some year later, no contact, answer: we are only, miracle of life in Earth.

I say all against this, maybe be a million civilization in Milky way but it's impossible make contact, No with our technology.

We neither can know if there are life in any part out of our solar system

Edited February 25, 2013 by lbiarge

Moontanman · February 25, 2013

You need to support this assertion with more than speculations...

Our advanced society has only 100 years (really many less) and probably will have few years more (oil peak, …).

If you cannot show this to be true, the rest falls completely apart... There is no reason to assume our civilization will fall if we run out of oil, in fact renewable energy can and almost certainly will slowly replace oil. In fact i think it's reasonable to assume our civilization will expand out into the solar system at least and the almost unlimited resources there can and will be used to further our civilization...

I do how ever agree that the idea that SETI will be able to eavesdrop on the radio leakage from other civilizations is less than supportable at this time...

lbiarge · February 25, 2013

You need to support this assertion with more than speculations...

Sorry is the opposite, who affirm anything is who need give proofs, you affirm that we can contact with other civilization, give the proofs.

If you cannot show this to be true, the rest falls completely apart... There is no reason to assume our civilization will fall if we run out of oil, in fact renewable energy can and almost certainly will slowly replace oil. In fact i think it's reasonable to assume our civilization will expand out into the solar system at least and the almost unlimited resources there can and will be used to further our civilization...

I do how ever agree that the idea that SETI will be able to eavesdrop on the radio leakage from other civilizations is less than supportable at this time...

Really is the opposite, you and none cannot show that our technology could run out of oil.

And I not say that our technology civilization has only 100 years, really has 0 days, our technology not permit relation with civilization out of our solar system.

Example: the fans that create electricity are made with metals, transported by trucks, up with crane, all that only can give the oil. And when I speak over 80 millions barrel I say only the oil, our civilization consume this and many more (all the generated by fans, gas, ...)

More: why you believe that our technology society begin after the oil era? Why we cannot make a technology civilization with horses in the 14 century?

There are many studies that doubt if any alternative energy to oil has return any energy more that the cost of their construction.

Maybe you need to reconsiderer that the unique energy source is the petroleum, all the rest are only combustibles that cost more energy obtain that really give.

Edited February 25, 2013 by lbiarge

Moontanman · February 25, 2013

Sorry is the opposite, who affirm anything is who need give proofs, you affirm that we can contact with other civilization, give the proofs.

No i did not...

Really is the opposite, you and none cannot show that our technology could run out of oil.

I feel rather strongly we have a language problem here, I think you said we are going to run out of oil and our civilization is time limited by the future lack of oil... is this what you are saying? If so you are ignoring a huge amount of scientific progress like solar, wind, tidal, geothermal, Nuclear, not to mention making oil of of other organic materials and algae... running out of oil is a problem but not an insurmountable one...

And I not say that our technology civilization has only 100 years, really has 0 days, our technology not permit relation with civilization out of our solar system.

You are going to have to elaborate on this, i don't understand what you are asserting...

Example: the fans that create electricity are made with metals, transported by trucks, up with crane, all that only can give the oil. And when I speak over 80 millions barrel I say only the oil, our civilization consume this and many more (all the generated by fans, gas, ...)

And yet I pointed out solutions to that problem in the last paragraph...

More: why you believe that our technology society begin after the oil era? Why we cannot make a technology civilization with horses in the 14 century?

Again i do not understand what you are asserting here...

There are many studies that doubt if any alternative energy to oil has return any energy more that the cost of their construction.

I suggest you show them...

Maybe you need to reconsiderer that the unique energy source is the petroleum, all the rest are only combustibles that cost more energy obtain that really give.

Again that assertion needs to be supported...

lbiarge · February 25, 2013

http://peakoil.com/consumption/enough-energy-after-peak-oil-to-rebuild-and-repair-concrete-infrastructure

http://www.oildecline.com/

http://www.google.com/search?q=energies+petroleum#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=energies+after+peak+oil&oq=energies+after+peak+oil&gs_l=serp.3...7821.11252.1.11522.15.15.0.0.0.0.156.1724.3j12.15.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.4.serp.e0gxrNdOwsc&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42768644,d.ZG4&fp=ce5d43a4985ebd88&biw=1280&bih=560

and many, many more .....

Not only energy, also many materials that are from petroleum.

How much plains use electricity? How much interplanetary rockets?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_uranium

Nuclear power is energy from the future, or: How do you believe that the pools of Spent nuclear fuel would to be freeze by many thousand years?

Edited February 25, 2013 by lbiarge

Moontanman · February 25, 2013

http://peakoil.com/consumption/enough-energy-after-peak-oil-to-rebuild-and-repair-concrete-infrastructure

http://www.oildecline.com/

http://www.google.com/search?q=energies+petroleum#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=energies+after+peak+oil&oq=energies+after+peak+oil&gs_l=serp.3...7821.11252.1.11522.15.15.0.0.0.0.156.1724.3j12.15.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.4.serp.e0gxrNdOwsc&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42768644,d.ZG4&fp=ce5d43a4985ebd88&biw=1280&bih=560

You do realize that blogs are not evidence of anything but the bloggers opinions? peak oil cannot be shown as the end of our civilization any more than peak lumber can be seen as the end of construction...

and many, many more .....

Not only energy, also many materials that are from petroleum.

How much plains use electricity? How much interplanetary rockets?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_uranium

Nuclear power is energy from the future, or: How do you believe that the pools of Spent nuclear fuel would to be freeze by many thousand years?

peak uranium assumes no other type of nuclear power can be used when in fact thorium can not only be used to generate power it can also be used to generate power from the reactor waste we now store...

lbiarge · February 26, 2013

_{Is your opinion only against other opinions.}

_{According with you all without proofs, but this without proofs is also only your opinion.}

_{Thorium "Canada, China, Germany, India, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the United States have experimented with using thorium as a substitute nuclear fuel in nuclear reactors" in _{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium} this is a probably future, but only probably, At actual time is not usefull.}

_{Also use of other radiactive elements making reactors but not useful none today and with great costs.}

_{I would remember that the other energies that you say already are use in actual time, an example: you have 2 salary and you use all, after a time you lose 1 of theirs. Do you believe you can spend the same with half salary?}

I can speak also over fusion from hidrogen, better that thorium, but both are today only theoretical without aplication and without obtain energy.

_{All you say is your opinion, against that are many, the realitiy is not always like you desire. The peak oil is near agree you or not.}

Edited February 26, 2013 by lbiarge

Moontanman · February 26, 2013

_{Is your opinion only against other opinions.}

No, those are opinion blogs, not scientific research...

_{According with you all without proofs, but this without proofs is also only your opinion.}

_{Thorium "Canada, China, Germany, India, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the United States have experimented with using thorium as a substitute nuclear fuel in nuclear reactors" in _{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium} this is a probably future, but only probably, At actual time is not usefull.}

There is a reason for this... I will elaborate..

_{Also use of other radiactive elements making reactors but not useful none today and with great costs.}

You didn't watch the video did you? I only suggested what the video clearly stated, uranium 238 and plutonium can be used to produce energy in a thorium reactor... not only greatly increasing the amount of usable uranium but reducing the half life of the radioactive waste by orders of magnitude...

_{I would remember that the other energies that you say already are use in actual time, an example: you have 2 salary and you use all, after a time you lose 1 of theirs. Do you believe you can spend the same with half salary?}

I can speak also over fusion from hidrogen, better that thorium, but both are today only theoretical without aplication and without obtain energy.

No, thorium reactors are real they work, hydrogen fusion has been a pipe dream that is only a decade away for 60 years... The only reason why we use uranium reactors is that the produce material for nuclear weapons, even at the beginning of the nuclear age thorium was recognized as a way to produce energy but the people in charge wanted to produce energy and nuclear weapons...

_{All you say is your opinion, against that are many, the realitiy is not always like you desire. The peak oil is near agree you or not.}

I never said peak oil was not near, what I said was that peak oil did not portend the end of our civilization...

lbiarge · February 26, 2013

You didn't watch the video did you? I only suggested what the video clearly stated, uranium 238 and plutonium can be used to produce energy in a thorium reactor... not only greatly increasing the amount of usable uranium but reducing the half life of the radioactive waste by orders of magnitude...

Don't work.

Look: "If all goes well, the first plutonium-based reactor, PFBR, will start to produce 470 MWe power by March 2015, according to him." in a note of 13th Feb 2013 in http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130213/news-current-affairs/article/kalpakkam-reactor-runs-fast-track

Over this probably only say that is "bla bla bla"

The cost are growing, I read a little reactor in proof with many problems.

Same that fusion reactors.

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More information:

If the probability of 2 advanced civilization of 1000 years at same time is only 8.13 e-8, then the probability of 3 is near e-12, 4 of e-16, ….

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Supposing I’m wrong and you have reason:

Why none signal until now? And imagine the costs of all the seti proyects.

If there is any advanced civilization: Why not treat to contact with us?, probably we are not the needed technology but they would be?

Why not spend the same money to searching Gods? Why not for UFOs?

Why the people that affirm anything not give the proofs and need to give who say is false? Do you understand that GODS need to be considered true until anything proof that not exist? The probability of contact, GODS and UFOs are probably the same.

Why the evidence and proofs are insufficient?

Why the mathematical calculus is insufficient?

Why none evidence is an evidence of existence?

Why any scientists say that probably a million societies in Milky way and after no result change the idea to very strange the life and not resign and not obtain total discredit?

Why a electromagnetic signal from many distance could to be captured without a big attenuation in relation to the star lights? In Earth any signal transmitted to the universe is probably 1 trillion less that the sunlight and by that the signal received need also to be also of 1 trillion less.

Why the proofs and evidences always are insufficient against what we like or desire or belief? And in this case there are proofs against and there are not proof according to.

Edited February 26, 2013 by lbiarge

Moontanman · February 26, 2013

One of us needs to learn the others language dude... I can't follow you on this...

lbiarge · February 27, 2013

One of us needs to learn the others language dude... I can't follow you on this...

Sorry my bad english. I cannot write better.

Moontanman · February 27, 2013

Sorry my bad english. I cannot write better.

I have the feeling we are not quite as far apart on this as you think but I really can't follow you on this...

Edited February 27, 2013 by Moontanman

lbiarge · February 27, 2013

Can you copy here the test with problems? and/or number of the text?

lbiarge · March 11, 2013

An example considering contact with the nearest star from us:

I say also that same in the case of million of civilization the contact is impossible at least with our technology, with our actual technology probably we cannot contact with Proxima Centauri, this is only at 4.24 light years but this is only at 9285.6 more distance that Pluto.

To contact with other civilization you need many transmission power, probably in a magnitude near to our star power emission (or more, our star is a low star), consider the loses by attenuation.

Consider treat to contact with Proxima Centauri, you need a parabolic anten in that direction, a power of many wat, probably you would need near the power of 50 nuclear plants (or more) for obtain a signal probably 1 trillion less power that the Sun (without take in count the electronic for that - transistors, ...) with that signal probably you could make a signal of 2 minutes. This signal will arrive to Proxima Centauri in 4.24 years and only is signal for 2 minutes, in Proxima Centauri only would to ear the signal if there is a parabolic pointed to the earth. In case of receive by an advanced civilization they could send signal for us maybe yes or maybe not, ... All this for 1 only information in both directions???? the cost??? the value???? maybe also that when arrive the answer to us in 8.48 years our antennas are not directed to Proxima Centauri and we lost the answer.

An this only with the more nearest star to us.

Moontanman · March 11, 2013

An example considering contact with the nearest star from us:

I say also that same in the case of million of civilization the contact is impossible at least with our technology, with our actual technology probably we cannot contact with Proxima Centauri, this is only at 4.24 light years but this is only at 9285.6 more distance that Pluto.

To contact with other civilization you need many transmission power, probably in a magnitude near to our star power emission (or more, our star is a low star), consider the loses by attenuation.

Consider treat to contact with Proxima Centauri, you need a parabolic anten in that direction, a power of many wat, probably you would need near the power of 50 nuclear plants (or more) for obtain a signal probably 1 trillion less power that the Sun (without take in count the electronic for that - transistors, ...) with that signal probably you could make a signal of 2 minutes. This signal will arrive to Proxima Centauri in 4.24 years and only is signal for 2 minutes, in Proxima Centauri only would to ear the signal if there is a parabolic pointed to the earth. In case of receive by an advanced civilization they could send signal for us maybe yes or maybe not, ... All this for 1 only information in both directions???? the cost??? the value???? maybe also that when arrive the answer to us in 8.48 years our antennas are not directed to Proxima Centauri and we lost the answer.

An this only with the more nearest star to us.

I was referring to detecting signal leakage at the distance to alpha centari, a directed signal would be much easier to detect. In fact a radio telescope like arecibo would be detectable across the visible universe and it has no where near the out put you are suggesting...

lbiarge · March 11, 2013

I was referring to detecting signal leakage at the distance to alpha centari, a directed signal would be much easier to detect. In fact a radio telescope like arecibo would be detectable across the visible universe and it has no where near the out put you are suggesting...

Then I need to understand that you has gone to alpha centari and received signals from Earth. In this condition I can't say nothing more.

Better, you affirm that you have travel to "across the visible universe" and detected the radio telescope arecibo.

Good, very good. You are a God and I can't argue with an evidence like this.

Also I can understand we are probably between the most advanced civilization in the universe, and prepared to contact with any other.

Edited March 11, 2013 by lbiarge

Moontanman · March 12, 2013

If we are talking about civilizations like our own, and this is where I think we are in agreement, our civilization would or could colonize the entire galaxy in a few million years given very little more technology that we currently possess.

http://www.geoffreylandis.com/percolation.htp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Millennial_Project:_Colonizing_the_Galaxy_in_Eight_Easy_Steps

I think this can be explained by another rout but the idea of "if they exist where are they is a valid question, I think it can be asserted with a reasonable amount of surety that civilizations are either very rare, very short lived, or rapidly evolve away from being detectable or understandable by us... or, and this is my main assertion quite a few times here on this forum, they lose interest in planets altogether in favor of artificial habitats.... this would allow many intelligence's to occupy the same galaxy with little interaction with civilizations like us...

Then I need to understand that you has gone to alpha centari and received signals from Earth. In this condition I can't say nothing more.

Better, you affirm that you have travel to "across the visible universe" and detected the radio telescope arecibo.

Good, very good. You are a God and I can't argue with an evidence like this.

Also I can understand we are probably between the most advanced civilization in the universe, and prepared to contact with any other.

Please don't be insulting, I am trying to over come our communication barrier...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

Radio technology and the ability to construct a radio telescope are presumed to be a natural advance for technological species,^[28] theoretically creating effects that might be detected over interstellar distances. Sensitive observers of the Solar System, for example, would note unusually intense radio waves for a G2 star due to Earth's television and telecommunication broadcasts. In the absence of an apparent natural cause, alien observers might infer the existence of terrestrial civilization. It should be noted however that even much more sensitive radio telescopes than those currently available on Earth would not be able to detect non-directional radio signals even at a fraction of a light year, so it is questionable whether any such signals could be detected by an extraterrestrial civilization.^[29]

Should alien artifacts be discovered, even here on Earth, they may not be recognizable as such. The products of an alien mind and an advanced alien technology might not be perceptible or recognizable as artificial constructs. Exploratory devices in the form of bio-engineered life forms created throughsynthetic biology would presumably disintegrate after a point, leaving no evidence; an alien information gathering system based on molecular nanotechnologycould be all around us at this very moment, completely undetected. The same might be true of civilizations that actively hide their investigations from us, for possible reasons described further in this article. Also, Clarke's third law suggests that an alien civilization well in advance of humanity's might have means of investigation that are not yet conceivable to human beings.

http://www.disclose.tv/forum/galaxy-should-have-been-colonized-by-now-t66405.html

Edited March 12, 2013 by Moontanman

lbiarge · March 12, 2013

Very probably all this is the cause that I write an hypothesis against the mainstream.

Your solution is according to mainstream, but really is very expressive the evidences.

"Please don't be insulting,"

I say the same, You and all people can to be belief, that not change the TRUE.

This problem is near to the "exponential grow", normally mainstream consider it possible but only is impossible, and many people cannot understand that grow and exponential are incompatibles.

You can say all you like over contact with other civilization, but really our society and probably more advanced civilization have the same probability to contact that the primitive man to contact with other continent.

"Radio technology and the ability to construct a radio telescope are presumed to be a natural advance for technological species,^[28] theoretically creating effects that might be detected over interstellar distances" - none proof, is easy to say.

" Sensitive observers of the Solar System, for example, would note unusually intense radio waves for a G2 star due to Earth's television and telecommunication broadcasts" - an star transmit with trillion bigger power that a radio signal.

etc, etc, etc.

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1 last note with your permission:

Who affirm anything is who need to give proofs. You affirm, please give the proofs.

Sorry for my words, but it's very easy to attack without proofs, with words say by another person.

This make me to be the rare, but really I give evidences, against the mainstream that give none proof and affirm that can occur, so this work make the against work, that who deny need to give the proofs.

This is like say that God exist or give proof that not exist, same with UFo, magic, ....

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I also can give many phrases of Bible or Koran, ... and then say that you give proofs against that phrases, this is what you say to me, give a phrase without any proof and that I give proof against that, and remember: "WHO AFFIRM IS WHO NEED TO GIVE THE PROOFS"

Edited March 12, 2013 by lbiarge

Moontanman · March 12, 2013

I have been doing my best to provide evidence of my position all the while you provide none and insult me, what part of this sentence do you not understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox

It should be noted however that even much more sensitive radio telescopes than those currently available on Earth would not be able to detect non-directional radio signals even at a fraction of a light year, so it is questionable whether any such signals could be detected by an extraterrestrial civilization.^[29]

lbiarge · March 12, 2013

Sorry if you consider that.

Moontanman · March 12, 2013

Do you even bother to consider the evidence I have given you or is simply shouting I am wrong all you have?

lbiarge · March 12, 2013

I prefer not continue this conversation, but I only say:

"At any practical pace of interstellar travel, the galaxy can be completely colonized in just a few tens of millions of years." - in Fermi paradox. with this I not need make more comments. This man not considered the need of combustible?

For end, I'm wrong.

Please close the topic.

lbiarge · March 17, 2013

"At any practical pace of interstellar travel, the galaxy can be completely colonized in just a few tens of millions of years." - in Fermi paradox. with this I not need make more comments. This man not considered the need of combustible?

You consider that we have a probably millions years civilization, what combustible?

In our planet the spatial race begin in 1957, from there the man as put the foot in Moon and make a hole in Mars. This in 56 years.

How could make comunications a civilization that would exist in a galaxy, with a probably longer of 100000 lightyears like our Milky way?

What would be the interest for conquist many planets with the cost in materials and combustible?

etc, .etc ...

And all this would be with only 1 civilization, not 2 like say the post

Edited March 17, 2013 by lbiarge

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Very low probability of 2 advanced societies at same time in near universe

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Moontanman

lbiarge

Moontanman

lbiarge

Moontanman

lbiarge

lbiarge

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