Should pedophilia be legal?

[Grockel]

Adults having sex with children is considered one of the most heinous crimes. The rape of a child causes significant trauma and physical harm. However consensual sex with children, which may not even be penetrative, is a grey area. In order for something to be justifiably criminalized it must be harmful, for this reason homosexuality has been decriminalized. There are several factors which need to be discussed when deciding if pedophilia is intrinsically harmful.

Age of consent

Ages of consent are arbitrary and differ across nations. In Italy a 40 year old can legally have sex with a 14 year old, whilst in California a 20 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend is committing statutory rape. The problem with an age of consent is that it doesn't allow for exceptions: young people are criminalized for having consensual sex whilst vulnerable teenagers over the age of consent are unprotected. There is no scientific evidence suggesting that sex before a certain age is intrinsically harmful.

Taboo and morality

How society views sex is important, sexual ethics are subjective and ever changing. Sexual taboos exist in every culture and cause individuals to feel shame, guilt and other powerful emotions. These taboos are often unjustified, such as the taboo against interracial sex. Whilst sex with children is taboo in western cultures it has been, and still is, acceptable in some parts of the world. Recently the west has imposed it's sexual ethics on the Pitcairn Islands where children routinely have sex with adults. One woman told reporters:

"I was 13 ... I felt like a big lady. I wanted it"

What right do we have to impose our laws on these people? In the West parents can feed their kids junk food and raise them with religious beliefs, why should they not also be allowed to decide on how the child develops sexually?

APA (American Psychiatric Association)

The APA conducted 59 studies on college students. They discovered that two-thrids of sexually abused men and more than one-quarter of sexually abused women "reported neutral or positive reactions." They concluded that the negative effects of child sexual abuse "were neither pervasive nor typically intense".

In the Psychological Bulletin (1998, vol. 124) the American Psychiatric Association stated:

"Childhood sexual abuse is on average, only slightly associated with psychological harm--and that the harm may not be due to the sexual experience, but to the negative family factors in the children's backgrounds. When the sexual contact is not coerced...it may not be harmful at all." The APA also states that abuse "may only constitute a violation of social norms.".

Prior to the late 20th century much of the research on pedophilia was based on data from clinical populations, i.e., people who sought help for existing emotional/psychological problems. The APA concludes that "the inevitable result was that the pervasiveness of harm was greatly exaggerated, since only those who perceived themselves as needing treatment were included."

What are your opinions of adults having consensual sex with children and teenagers?

Edited February 27, 2013 by Grockel

[elfmotat]

Pedophilia already is legal. Acting on it isn't.

[Grockel]

Pedophilia already is legal. Acting on it isn't.

 

Allow me to rephrase the question: Is adults having sex with children intrinsically harmful?

 

Children are not asexual. Toddlers have been known to masturbate, even doing so in public as they are unaware of any taboo. According to such researchers as De Jong, 1989, by the age of two or three years children begin to explore their own genitals via masturbation, and to explore the genitals of other children by means of such games as "playing doctor," playing "mommy and daddy," and by means of childish attempts at sexual intercourse. Dr Saltzman says: "Ordinary sexual experimentation between children within the same family is definitely not incest."

 

Why can't an adult be a apart of this sexual experimentation?

Edited February 28, 2013 by Grockel

[dimreepr]

I don’t think the exploration of sexuality by children via adults is intrinsically harmful, given the exploration is initiated by the child. I can’t, however, see a safe way to determine which child is the explorer and which child has been coerced or groomed. Adults grooming children use a variety of psychological methods which often leave the children confused and vulnerable. It’s far safer to let it remain illegal and socially unacceptable.

[imatfaal]

Adults having sex with children is considered one of the most heinous crimes. The rape of a child causes significant trauma and physical harm. However consensual sex with children, which may not even be penetrative, is a grey area. In order for something to be justifiably criminalized it must be harmful, for this reason homosexuality has been decriminalized. There are several factors which need to be discussed when deciding if pedophilia is intrinsically harmful.

Children by their nature and by definition cannot give informed and actual consent - part of being a child, and part of the legal concept of a child is that they do not have full adults knowledge, conceptions, responsibilities, and power. A child cannot give consent. It is not a grey area. Society can criminalise anything it damn well chooses by the way - in a very simplified way, the elected legislature makes a rule, and as long as it fits the "rule for making rules" it is then enforceable.

 

...Age of consent

 

Ages of consent are arbitrary and differ across nations. In Italy a 40 year old can legally have sex with a 14 year old, whilst in California a 20 year old having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend is committing statutory rape. The problem with an age of consent is that it doesn't allow for exceptions: young people are criminalized for having consensual sex whilst vulnerable teenagers over the age of consent are unprotected. There is no scientific evidence suggesting that sex before a certain age is intrinsically harmful.

Arbitrary rules are by their very nature arbitrary. Your last sentence is completely false - I think what you might mean is that there is no scientific consensus or evidence regarding below which age sex is harmful and above which harm is lessened.

 

... Taboo and morality

 

How society views sex is important, sexual ethics are subjective and ever changing. Sexual taboos exist in every culture and cause individuals to feel shame, guilt and other powerful emotions. These taboos are often unjustified, such as the taboo against interracial sex. Whilst sex with children is taboo in western cultures it has been, and still is, acceptable in some parts of the world.

It is not a sexual taboo to rape children - it is a crime and breach of all modern systems of humanity, morality and ethics. And the fact that it is acceptable in some parts of the world has sod all to do with making it legal elsewhere.

 

Recently the west has imposed it's sexual ethics on the Pitcairn Islands where children routinely have sex with adults. One woman told reporters:

 

"I was 13 ... I felt like a big lady. I wanted it"

 

What right do we have to impose our laws on these people? In the West parents can feed their kids junk food and raise them with religious beliefs, why should they not also be allowed to decide on how the child develops sexually?

The Pitcairn Islanders are a rump end of a set of mutineers from british ships - do you seriously feel that they make a valid sample as evidence to change western views. And they did not have Western values imposed - the laws which governed them were enforced after many years, the delay mainly being caused by fear of confronting powerful figures on the island, a fear of destroying the island community, and lack of ability to report crimes.

 

...APA (American Psychiatric Association)

 

The APA conducted 59 studies on college students. They discovered that two-thrids of sexually abused men and more than one-quarter of sexually abused women "reported neutral or positive reactions." They concluded that the negative effects of child sexual abuse "were neither pervasive nor typically intense".

 

In the Psychological Bulletin (1998, vol. 124) the American Psychiatric Association stated:

 

"Childhood sexual abuse is on average, only slightly associated with psychological harm--and that the harm may not be due to the sexual experience, but to the negative family factors in the children's backgrounds. When the sexual contact is not coerced...it may not be harmful at all." The APA also states that abuse "may only constitute a violation of social norms.".

 

So thats 75 effin percent of sexually abused girls have negative reactions - and you quote it prove your point!! Even if it were only (and I use that word advisedly) 33 percent across the board (per male) - yes it would still be reason to ban it. If 33 percent of children that do act A (regardless of the nature of the act) suffer mental trauma - and a fraction of them go on to longterm complications then it is still enough to make it illegal. For heaven's sake this is childhood mental suffering we are talking about and you seem to be saying that 75% female children suffering and 33% male children suffering is acceptable - that is not the case! And frankly psychiatric thinking on mental trauma has moved on considerably since 98

 

...

Prior to the late 20th century much of the research on pedophilia was based on data from clinical populations, i.e., people who sought help for existing emotional/psychological problems. The APA concludes that "the inevitable result was that the pervasiveness of harm was greatly exaggerated, since only those who perceived themselves as needing treatment were included."

So a large number of people seeking help for emotional and psychological problems found the root of those problems in their sexual abuse as a child - whilst that does not show that all sexual abuse causes trauma it does amply demonstrate that trauma was a result in their cases and thus that the causal factor is to be avoided.

 

...What are your opinions of adults having consensual sex with children and teenagers?

As per the first response they cannot have consensual sex. Changing the age of consent is a very dangerous option - although for same-age couples it might be a option

[Arete]

Allow me to rephrase the question: Is adults having sex with children intrinsically harmful?

 

 

Yes.

 

http://journals.lww.com/co-obgyn/abstract/1993/12000/child_sexual_abuse.12.aspx

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/bul/99/1/66/

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J287v02n02_08

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2804%2916771-8/fulltext

http://jiv.sagepub.com/content/7/2/189.short

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

A caution to tread lightly here, as this can be a hot-button issue, and be mindful of the rules — including presenting evidence vs anecdotes, or soapboxing — and etiquette.

 

Also that this is posted in Psychiatry and Psychology rather than Politics, so the legal aspect of the discussion really isn't on-topic here.