Karma and the teachings of Buddha - split from source of morality for theists and atheists

[immortal]

Karma, at least in Buddhism, is defined as the results of actions taken by volition - nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps you were thinking of karma as a mystic force?

 

You're an hypocrite, I am telling you its not too late either find yourself an another religion or just be an atheist, there is nothing wrong with it but please don't distort the doctrines of Buddhism.

 

http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/english/Natsok/0010_Teaching_English/Teaching_English_0074.htm

 

If you don't know what happens between the time after your death and your next rebirth then read the above teachings of bardo, saying that there is no mystic force is off the mark by a long way.

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And an another one says one needs to study Buddhism in order to understand the teachings of Jesus Christ, that's the most cunning way of falsely converting people into other religions I have ever seen, Buddhism has 100 peaceful and wrathful deities and will orthodox Christians accept those deities without abiding to the Ten commandments, its silly to say that Christians need to study Buddhism in order to understand the teachings of Jesus Christ. Let Christians worship and follow Christ and let Buddhists worship and follow Buddha, the road to divine fullness exist in both of these religions independently and if people follow that without being hypocrites then that's more than enough.

[imatfaal]

You're an hypocrite,...

 

!

Moderator Note

 

immortal

Do not make personal accusations or use insulting language. The above is unacceptable.

 

[John Cuthber]

Karma, at least in Buddhism, is defined as the results of actions taken by volition - nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps you were thinking of karma as a mystic force?

"Repentance properly understood does away with the karmic consequnces of past actions."

still has no meaning.

[Prometheus]

You're an hypocrite, I am telling you its not too late either find yourself an another religion or just be an atheist, there is nothing wrong with it but please don't distort the doctrines of Buddhism.

 

http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/english/Natsok/0010_Teaching_English/Teaching_English_0074.htm

 

If you don't know what happens between the time after your death and your next rebirth then read the above teachings of bardo, saying that there is no mystic force is off the mark by a long way.

 

Even if i am misrepresenting Buddhism, deliberately or otherwise, i fail to see how that makes me a hypocrite. Am i preaching one thing and practising another?

 

Regardless, it is you who is mistaken. The Bhardo teaching only appear in Tibetan Buddhism, 1000 years after the Buddha's death, and are not contained in the Pali Canon. They are a later addition. Only Tibetan Buddhists follow these teachings. The majority of Buddhists in the world do not follow these teachings. The Buddha did not follow these teachings. The Buddha did not teach these teachings. If you have evidence otherwise from the Pali canon then please let me know.

 

But we have had this discussion before, even on a Buddhist forum in which your thread was locked for being insensible, and I see no evidence you will ever change. I only wish to point out your misrepresentations of Buddhism.

 

"Repentance properly understood does away with the karmic consequnces of past actions."

still has no meaning.

 

Perhaps, I do not understand it. But that is for Peter J to answer.

[immortal]

Even if i am misrepresenting Buddhism, deliberately or otherwise, i fail to see how that makes me a hypocrite. Am i preaching one thing and practising another?

 

Yes, its a false pretence for you claim you're a Buddhist and what you're doing is slaying Buddha by defining your own flawed definition of Buddhism for the rest of us. I very well know who comes to Christianity and Buddhism for other reasons and who comes to become Christ and to attain Buddha nature.

Regardless, it is you who is mistaken. The Bhardo teaching only appear in Tibetan Buddhism, 1000 years after the Buddha's death, and are not contained in the Pali Canon. They are a later addition.

 

Vajrayana is based on esoteric teachings of Buddha and hence it was kept secret and was passed on orally, just because it was not written down doesn't mean the historical Buddha did not taught those teachings.

 

 

"According to this view, there were three "turnings of the wheel of dharma". In the first turning Shakyamuni Buddha taught the dharma as the Four Noble Truths at Varanasi which led to the Hinayana schools, of which only the Theravada remains today. In the second turning the Perfection of Wisdom sutras were taught at Vulture's Peak and led to the Mahayana schools. The teachings which constituted the third turning of the wheel of dharma were taught at Shravasti and expounded that all beings have Buddha-nature. This third turning is described as having led to the Vajrayana. The Vajrayana subscribes to the two truths doctrine of conventional and ultimate truths. Experiencing ultimate truth is the purpose of all the various tantric techniques practiced in the Vajrayana."

 

Even to this day the teachings of Vajrayana are kept secret and can only be attained by going through a series of initiations.

 

 

Only Tibetan Buddhists follow these teachings. The Buddha did not follow these teachings. The Buddha did not teach these teachings. If you have evidence otherwise from the Pali canon then please let me know.

 

That's your misconception.

 

 

Question: Who taught these teachings and where were they first revealed? Were they from the historical Buddha or from the Tibetan tradition?

 

Rinpoche: These are Tibetan teachings, but the source of these teachings is found in the tantras. In the tantras you can find the 42 peaceful and 58 wrathful deities. You can’t find this complete teaching in the tantra though, but you can recognize deities in specific tantras and know about what is held in the hands and all contents of this teaching. That was taught by the Buddha.

 

- Twelve days of Bardo, Rinpoche.

 

The majority of Buddhists in the world do not follow these teachings.

 

Jesus Christ taught esoteric teachings to a selected few, Buddha taught esoteric teachings to a selected few, the Brahmin priests have esoteric teachings which the outside mass doesn't know. The majority of the so called Hindus, Christians and Buddhists do not follow the teachings of their religions and that's no shocking news and that can never be an excuse for your wrong misconceptions of Buddhism.

 

But we have had this discussion before, even on a Buddhist forum in which your thread was locked for being insensible,

 

It was not locked based on any merit, it was locked because it shattered their preconceived notions of Buddhism and instead of taking the hardest path and investigating my claims they took the easy path as it is always the case with people and went on with their false preconceived notions of Buddhism.

 

and I see no evidence you will ever change.

 

You need to stop there for just a second and realize that it is you who need to change. Why do I give up the gifts that God has given me and come and surrender myself back to the days of my ignorance? I have gone passed all your exoteric levels and I am not foolish to come back to that lower level of understanding at which you are. Do you have a valid genuine reason as to why I need to change?

 

I only wish to point out your misrepresentations of Buddhism.

 

Very nice, you are wasting my time and you are wasting the time of atheists.

 

I have nothing personal against you, I am not pinpointing only at you, as we know its a problem with the majority. It just happens that you're in line with the point of my criticism.

[Prometheus]

 

Yes, its a false pretence for you claim you're a Buddhist and what you're doing is slaying Buddha by defining your own flawed definition of Buddhism for the rest of us. I very well know who comes to Christianity and Buddhism for other reasons and who comes to become Christ and to attain Buddha nature.

 

It would be a false pretence if i were deliberately misrepresenting the Buddha. But this statement:

 

I have nothing personal against you, I am not pinpointing only at you, as we know its a problem with the majority. It just happens that you're in line with the point of my criticism.

 

suggests you think i am genuinely mistaken. You have demonstrated you do not understand what false pretence is, nor a hypocrite. I point this out only because you have been rude, and it doesn't bode well for your understanding of much else if two words confound you.

 

 

Vajrayana is based on esoteric teachings of Buddha and hence it was kept secret and was passed on orally, just because it was not written down doesn't mean the historical Buddha did not taught those teachings.

 

So there is some teaching most of us do not know about, but you do, but you can't point them out at all. That is very fortunate for you. I too am privy to secret teachings of the Buddha which prove unequivocally i am right, but they are secret, and you wouldn't understand them anyway.

 

Oh, wait i forgot. The Buddha actually said that he did not hide any teachings from anyone:

 

the Tathâgata has no such thing as the 'closed fist' of a teacher who hides some essential knowledge from the pupil.

 

From the Buddha's mouth in the Pali canon, see for yourself if you think i'm lying: Digha Nikaya

 

 

 

Even to this day the teachings of Vajrayana are kept secret and can only be attained by going through a series of initiations.

 

 

Question: Who taught these teachings and where were they first revealed? Were they from the historical Buddha or from the Tibetan tradition?

 

Rinpoche: These are Tibetan teachings, but the source of these teachings is found in the tantras. In the tantras you can find the 42 peaceful and 58 wrathful deities. You can’t find this complete teaching in the tantra though, but you can recognize deities in specific tantras and know about what is held in the hands and all contents of this teaching. That was taught by the Buddha.

 

- Twelve days of Bardo, Rinpoche.

 

Jesus Christ taught esoteric teachings to a selected few, Buddha taught esoteric teachings to a selected few, the Brahmin priests have esoteric teachings which the outside mass doesn't know. The majority of the so called Hindus, Christians and Buddhists do not follow the teachings of their religions and that's no shocking news and that can never be an excuse for your wrong misconceptions of Buddhism.

 

 

I am vaguely aware that Tibetan Buddhists teach in such a manner, with a closed fist as the Buddha put it, but most Buddhists don't. It is clear you have only one source of knowing Buddhism, which i wouldn't criticise if you weren't so insistent that only your view of Buddhism is correct and everyone else is wrong (which most Tibetan Buddhists don't). It is fortunate that the 'right' form of Buddhism, consistent with your bizarre notions of 'evidence', just happens to be the one you like best.

 

If they were taught by the Buddha then it should be easy to find a reference in the Pali Canon. Oh, i forgot. Secret teachings not written down, even though the Buddha said he had no secret teachings. The Buddha's disciples at the time of his death are known - who received these secret teachings?

 

 

It was not locked based on any merit, it was locked because it shattered their preconceived notions of Buddhism and instead of taking the hardest path and investigating my claims they took the easy path as it is always the case with people and went on with their false preconceived notions of Buddhism.

 

Funny.

 

Do you have a valid genuine reason as to why I need to change?

 

The things you say, and how you say them, do not reflect reality, do not benefit mankind and do not make anyone a better person.

 

 

 

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To everyone else - sorry for the thread hijack, might be worth splitting off the topic.

[imatfaal]

!

Moderator Note

 

Split from philosophy (shurely ethics -ed?) topic "source of morality for theists and atheists"

 

If this thread becomes at all abusive or preachy we will have no hesitation shutting it down. It has been opened to allow a discussion of comparitive religious views and different doctrinal interpretations - not to showcase entrenched and dogmatic positions.

 

[ydoaPs]

You're an hypocrite, I am telling you its not too late either find yourself an another religion or just be an atheist, there is nothing wrong with it but please don't distort the doctrines of Buddhism.

Given how you twist and bend Christianity past its breaking point and preach it as absolute truth, the above quote is fairly amusing.

[immortal]

It would be a false pretence if i were deliberately misrepresenting the Buddha. But this statement:

 

suggests you think i am genuinely mistaken. You have demonstrated you do not understand what false pretence is, nor a hypocrite.

 

My argument is quite simple actually a Buddhist must adhere himself to the Buddhist cosmology and anyone who doesn't adhere himself or accept this cosmology is not a Buddhist.

 

You cannot call yourself a Buddhist and define your distorted vision of Buddhism like this-->

 

"Karma, at least in Buddhism, is defined as the results of actions taken by volition - nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps you were thinking of karma as a mystic force?"

 

It is a false pretence, you claim to be one thing and preach something else entirely, the correct word is hypocrite and that's what should have been attributed to you but it goes against the rules of this forum and hence I am avoiding it.

 

 

2.1 Vertical cosmology

• 2.1.1 Formless Realm (Ārūpyadhātu)
• 2.1.2 Form Realm (Rūpadhātu)
  • 2.1.2.1 Pure Abodes
  • 2.1.2.2 Bṛhatphala worlds
  • 2.1.2.3 Śubhakṛtsna worlds
  • 2.1.2.4 Ābhāsvara worlds
  • 2.1.2.5 Brahmā worlds
• 2.1.3 Desire Realm (Kāmadhātu)
  • 2.1.3.1 Heavens
  • 2.1.3.2 Worlds of Sumeru
  • 2.1.3.3 Earthly realms
  • 2.1.3.4 Hells (Narakas)
    • 2.1.3.4.1 Cold Narakas
    • 2.1.3.4.2 Hot Narakas

According to Buddhism, a human being can be reborn in any of these different realms or worlds based on his fruits of Karma, the historical Buddha himself recalled his memories of past lives and one can find all his previous past lives recordings in the Jatakas. He had 357 past lives as a human, 66 as a god and 123 as an animal.

 

Hence anyone can see how distorted and ignorant your distorted definition of Buddhism was. Its very clear from your posts here that you do not accept this cosmogony of Buddhism and like to pretend that you're a Buddhist by making your own views of Buddhism which openly contradicts with the teachings of Buddha.

 

I point this out only because you have been rude, and it doesn't bode well for your understanding of much else if two words confound you.

 

Do you realize how deluded and how rude you were when you said that it is you who is right and it is me who is misrepresenting Buddhism? Great, isn't it?

 

So there is some teaching most of us do not know about, but you do, but you can't point them out at all. That is very fortunate for you. I too am privy to secret teachings of the Buddha which prove unequivocally i am right, but they are secret, and you wouldn't understand them anyway.

 

Your posts very well reveal the level of understanding you are at and you claim you have secret teachings from Buddha? Do you think I am a fool to believe that?

 

Oh, wait i forgot. The Buddha actually said that he did not hide any teachings from anyone:

 

From the Buddha's mouth in the Pali canon, see for yourself if you think i'm lying: Digha Nikaya

 

No one has hidden any teachings from anyone, one's mind and body should be prepared before entering tantric Buddhism such as Guhyagarbha tantra, you can first test a Tibetan Buddhist and then he will test you to see whether you're prepared enough to receive such teachings or not and in this way in the past the knowledge was passed on orally from one person to another with in a tradition. Without taking that hard path don't continue to argue that Buddha did not taught these things or followed it and argue that your distorted visions of Buddhism is the correct one.

 

I am vaguely aware that Tibetan Buddhists teach in such a manner, with a closed fist as the Buddha put it, but most Buddhists don't. It is clear you have only one source of knowing Buddhism, which i wouldn't criticise if you weren't so insistent that only your view of Buddhism is correct and everyone else is wrong (which most Tibetan Buddhists don't). It is fortunate that the 'right' form of Buddhism, consistent with your bizarre notions of 'evidence', just happens to be the one you like best.

 

If they were taught by the Buddha then it should be easy to find a reference in the Pali Canon. Oh, i forgot. Secret teachings not written down, even though the Buddha said he had no secret teachings. The Buddha's disciples at the time of his death are known - who received these secret teachings?

 

Then you need to read more about Buddhism.

 

Terma (Buddhism)

 

The things you say, and how you say them, do not reflect reality, do not benefit mankind and do not make anyone a better person.

 

I very well know how to make this world a better place and what humanity or mankind needs the most. All the current problems of mankind is because it has lost its dharma, the Logos, the divine principle, the truth and the only way to establish it or rediscover it is by becoming Christ or attaining Buddha nature. That's the true message of all the religions of the world that there is a divinity that's worth thinking about and man should conduct himself based on this divine principle without coveting anything of this world.

 

Given how you twist and bend Christianity past its breaking point and preach it as absolute truth, the above quote is fairly amusing.

 

I need to do it, not to bring down Christianity but to bring down the atheism that has crept over this world. You have got no idea to what extent I can defend my views on Christianity and I think no religion has explicitly expressed their discovered truths of nature in the form of beautiful myths as the early Christians and I find some of their terminologies very useful to convey the view of the world that I have in my mind and hence I will defend it and why shouldn't I when all the evidence is on my side. Defending early Christianity is more important for me than defending the Vedas.

[Prometheus]

 

My argument is quite simple actually a Buddhist must adhere himself to the Buddhist cosmology and anyone who doesn't adhere himself or accept this cosmology is not a Buddhist.

 

 

Let's try a different approach, since you dodged most of those questions. Let;s just take one tiny element at a time.

 

Please give me a direct quote from the Buddha where he states one must adhere to Buddhist cosmology to become a Buddhist. An indirect quote will do, so long as it's from the Pali Canon.

[ydoaPs]

 

Let's try a different approach, since you dodged most of those questions. Let;s just take one tiny element at a time.

 

Please give me a direct quote from the Buddha where he states one must adhere to Buddhist cosmology to become a Buddhist. An indirect quote will do, so long as it's from the Pali Canon.

It's not going to happen. I don't remember anything that it is said the Buddha has said suggesting Buddhist cosmology is a requirement. I do, however remember that it is said that the Buddha has said it doesn't matter. All that matters is the Four Noble Truths (and, by extension, the Eightfold Path).

 

By immortal's own argument, immortal is just as guilty as you for whatever she claims you did, since she rejects the Christian cosmology of a 6000 year old dlat Earth created in 6 days.

[immortal]

Let's try a different approach, since you dodged most of those questions. Let;s just take one tiny element at a time.

 

Please give me a direct quote from the Buddha where he states one must adhere to Buddhist cosmology to become a Buddhist. An indirect quote will do, so long as it's from the Pali Canon.

 

The Pali canon is not the only source of Buddhism, what about the Mahayana Sutras and the Vajrayana Tantras which was taught by the eternal Buddha, you might just go on to say that Mahayana Buddhists are not Buddhists at all. LOL, you're a cherry picker aren't you?

[ydoaPs]

The Pali canon is not the only source of Buddhism, what about the Mahayana Sutras and the Vajrayana Tantras which was taught by the eternal Buddha, you might just go on to say that Mahayana Buddhists are not Buddhists at all. LOL, you're a cherry picker aren't you?

Yet, it's perfectly acceptable for you to make a No True Scotsman for Western Buddhists (and for the vast majority of Christians, for that matter)?

 

*cough*Pot*cough*Kettle*cough*

[immortal]

It's not going to happen. I don't remember anything that it is said the Buddha has said suggesting Buddhist cosmology is a requirement. I do, however remember that it is said that the Buddha has said it doesn't matter. All that matters is the Four Noble Truths (and, by extension, the Eightfold Path).

 

That's a view known as Hinayana meaning the lower school, you are ignorant of the higher schools of Buddhism.

 

By immortal's own argument, immortal is just as guilty as you for whatever she claims you did, since she rejects the Christian cosmology of a 6000 year old dlat Earth created in 6 days.

 

Who told that's what Christian cosmology is? Only psychic Christians who interpret the Bible too literally accept such a cosmology.

 

The psychic Christians will not receive anything.

 

 

"Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing." (Gospel of Philip)

The early pneumatic Christians believed in the Pleroma and this is the cosmogony of Christians and hence if anyone wants to call himself a pneumatic Christian he or she need to accept this Christian cosmology. My views are consistent and I'm ain't guilty of anything.

[ydoaPs]

Let's try a different approach, since you dodged most of those questions. Let;s just take one tiny element at a time.

 

Please give me a direct quote from the Buddha where he states one must adhere to Buddhist cosmology to become a Buddhist. An indirect quote will do, so long as it's from the Pali Canon.

I'd like to bring up that it's not just the lay Westerners that say the cosmology is irrelevant. Often, it is brought up that it is said that the Buddha compared his teachings to the footprints of an elephant:

 

"The four noble truths are the most basic expression of the Buddha's teaching. As Ven. Sariputta once said, they encompass the entire teaching, just as the footprint of an elephant can encompass the footprints of all other footed beings on earth."-Thanissaro Bhikkhu

 

And the Tibetan monk Geshe Tashi Tsering has said, "The four noble truths encompass the entire spiritual path with all its many aspects".

 

Saying that Buddhists must believe the "Buddhist Cosmology" is not only a claim based on a straw man of Buddhism, but it is a blatant No True Scotsman.

 

That's a view known as Hinayana meaning the lower school, you are ignorant of the higher schools of Buddhism.

Are they lying about what the Buddha said?

 

Who told that's what Christian cosmology is? Only psychic Christians who interpret the Bible too literally accept such a cosmology.

The exact objection could be raised against your No True Buddhist "argument".

[immortal]

Yet, it's perfectly acceptable for you to make a No True Scotsman for Western Buddhists (and for the vast majority of Christians, for that matter)?

 

*cough*Pot*cough*Kettle*cough*

 

LoL, the western Buddhists and orthodox Christians are infants when compared to the wisdom and understanding of traditional eastern Buddhists and the early Christians. Yes, the secular Buddhists are under a deep illusion and they claim they know more about Buddhism than the locals? LoL. No one laughs at them more than we do.

[ydoaPs]

LoL, the western Buddhists and orthodox Christians are infants when compared to the wisdom and understanding of traditional eastern Buddhists and the early Christians. Yes, the secular Buddhists are under a deep illusion and they claim they know more about Buddhism than the locals? LoL. No one laughs at them more than we do.

I wasn't aware that Tibet counted as "Western".

[immortal]

Are they lying about what the Buddha said?

 

Nope, they are the only one's who have preserved the soul of Buddhism and they revere Buddha more than the secular slayers of Buddhism.

 

Saying that Buddhists must believe the "Buddhist Cosmology" is not only a claim based on a straw man of Buddhism, but it is a blatant No True Scotsman.

 

There is a word for those who reject Buddhist Cosmology, hypocrites or cherry pickers.

 

I wasn't aware that Tibet counted as "Western".

 

Do you know what Tibetan Buddhists believe in? Really, you just don't and you have got no idea.

[ydoaPs]

Nope, they are the only one's who have preserved the soul of Buddhism and they revere Buddha more than the secular slayers of Buddhism.

So, they accurately preserve the teachings of Gautima when they say that it is said that he compared his teachings to the footprints of an elephant. You are wrong. One need not hold the Buddhist cosmology to hold the Four Noble Truths.

There is a word for those who reject Buddhist Cosmology, hypocrites or cherry pickers.

Let's leave aside that it is said that the Buddha has said that cherry picking his teachings is exactly what one is supposed to do. The actual words for the people who see that the Buddha's teaching that all of Buddhism is encapsulated in the Four Noble Truths is "Buddhists".

Do you know what Tibetan Buddhists believe in? Really, you just don't and you have got no idea.

I just quoted one saying, "The four noble truths encompass the entire spiritual path with all its many aspects". You are perpetrating a No True Scotsman fallacy based upon a straw man of the actual teachings. You are fractally wrong.

[immortal]

So, they accurately preserve the teachings of Gautima when they say that it is said that he compared his teachings to the footprints of an elephant. You are wrong. One need not hold the Buddhist cosmology to hold the Four Noble Truths.

 

The higher schools of Buddhism see Buddha as a living person in the eternal realm and that slams secular Buddhism explicitly. So please go and find a different religion, you cannot justify your distorted visions and yet maintain that we hold the correct version of Buddhism.

 

Let's leave aside that it is said that the Buddha has said that cherry picking his teachings is exactly what one is supposed to do. The actual words for the people who see that the Buddha's teaching that all of Buddhism is encapsulated in the Four Noble Truths is "Buddhists".

 

The Vajrayana tradition or the Nyingma culminates all the teachings of Buddha and hence it is called as the path of perfection. What you're doing at best is cherry picking, so secular Buddhists please don't interfere into issues which you have got no idea and stop distorting the teachings of Buddhism, you guys just cannot define Buddhism the way you want leaving aside important teachings and just get away like that.

 

I just quoted one saying, "The four noble truths encompass the entire spiritual path with all its many aspects". You are perpetrating a No True Scotsman fallacy based upon a straw man of the actual teachings. You are fractally wrong.

 

"My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times."

 

- Padmasambhava

 

This is Tibetan Buddhism, do you know who Samantabhadra amd Samantabhadri is? You might just go on to say that Padmasambhava, the second Buddha was not a Buddhist. He explicitly slams the view of secular Buddhists straight out. Hello, cherry picker. Welcome to Buddhism.

[ydoaPs]

The higher schools of Buddhism see Buddha as a living person in the eternal realm and that slams secular Buddhism explicitly. So please go and find a different religion, you cannot justify your distorted visions and yet maintain that we hold the correct version of Buddhism.

 

 

The Vajrayana tradition or the Nyingma culminates all the teachings of Buddha and hence it is called as the path of perfection. What you're doing at best is cherry picking, so secular Buddhists please don't interfere into issues which you have got no idea and stop distorting the teachings of Buddhism, you guys just cannot define Buddhism the way you want leaving aside important teachings and just get away like that.

 

 

"My father is the intrinsic awareness, Samantabhadra (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ). My mother is the ultimate sphere of reality, Samantabhadri (Sanskrit; Tib. ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་མོ). I belong to the caste of non-duality of the sphere of awareness. My name is the Glorious Lotus-Born. I am from the unborn sphere of all phenomena. I act in the way of the Buddhas of the three times."

 

- Padmasambhava

 

This is Tibetan Buddhism, do you know who Samantabhadra amd Samantabhadri is? You might just go on to say that Padmasambhava, the second Buddha was not a Buddhist. He explicitly slams the view of secular Buddhists straight out. Hello, cherry picker. Welcome to Buddhism.

You already admitted that it is said that the Buddha has said that all of Buddhism is encompassed in the Four Noble Truths. YOU are the one ignoring teachings. It is YOU that is "cherry picking". You are still wrong. Again, in the words of a Tibetan monk: "The four noble truths encompass the entire spiritual path with all its many aspects".

[immortal]

You already admitted that it is said that the Buddha has said that all of Buddhism is encompassed in the Four Noble Truths.

 

I did not admitted that. All of Buddhism including the Four Noble Truths is encompassed in the Atiyoga/Dzogchen tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.

 

YOU are the one ignoring teachings. It is YOU that is "cherry picking". You are still wrong.

 

Repeating the same thing again and again is simply a waste of time, it only displays your ignorance on the subject. As I promised secular Buddhists have no future and their views will be corrected by scholars and its a waste of time arguing with them.

 

Again, in the words of a Tibetan monk: "The four noble truths encompass the entire spiritual path with all its many aspects".

 

 

Dzogchen Rinpoche (2007: p. 89) holds that:

 

"When we study and practice the so-called lower and higher yanas, we might hear that the most sublime, or the pinnacle of all teachings are those of dzogchen, and this is true. The "lower" yanas of the shravaka and bodhisattva paths, the "higher" paths of the tantras, and the "pinnacle" path of dzogchen are distinguished from one another in this way. This gradation shows the various ways in which it is appropriate for beings of differing propensities to proceed upon the path. Ideally, a practitioner proceeds from the lower levels of practice to the higher levels, and then to the summit. This does not mean that the lower levels of practice are to be disparaged or ignored. We should not focus on the higher paths at the expense of the lower paths..."

 

 

You have been badly misinformed as the above quote from a Tibetan Buddhist explicitly says.

[ydoaPs]

Repeating the same thing again and again is simply a waste of time

Since you blatantly ignore the teachings of Gautima, then I guess it is.

[PeterJ]

Immortal - Please do not speak for Buddhism. You do not understand it. You do even like it, I'd be amazed to discover that you'd ever taken an interest in it, since most people who do quickly gain a better understanding than yours.

 

If I were a moderator you would have been banned years ago. It is not a surprise that you do so much talking here and not on a Buddhist site, where you would not get away with such nonsense.

 

You do all religion a disservice by your ridiculous pronouncements and arrogance. You make religion look like idiocy.

 

Karma is defined in one introduction to Buddhism as 'volitional action, lit., action, deed'. Seems clear enough. On what basis did you patronisingly disagree with Prometheus when he gave this definition?

 

 

.

It's not going to happen. I don't remember anything that the Buddha has said suggesting Buddhist cosmology is a requirement. I do, however remember that it is said that the Buddha has said it doesn't matter. All that matters is the Four Noble Truths (and, by extension, the Eightfold Path).

 

Well, I would mildly disagree.here. As far as practice goes it would not be necessary to hold any beliefs at all, whether about cosmology or anything else. Beliefs may even be detrimental, causing confirmation bias and restricted thinking etc. But if we are to accept the soteriological claims of the Buddha then we must accept his cosmology, since those claims could only be true if the universe is as he says it is. But, as you say, what really matters to the practitioner is the soteriology, not the cosmology.

[ydoaPs]

Immortal - Please do not speak for Buddhism. You do not understand it. You do even like it, I'd be amazed to discover that you'd ever taken an interest in it, since most people who do quickly gain a better understanding than yours.

 

If I were a moderator you would have been banned years ago. It is not a surprise that you do so much talking here and not on a Buddhist site, where you would not get away with such nonsense.

 

 

You're not going to get a reply; immortal is on a perminent vacation.