arc Posted May 25, 2013 Author Posted May 25, 2013 wouldnt the ice melting at the poles lft the poles and cause the other side of the plate to sink? wouldnt the stress of the missippi filling to flood stage put stress on the plate causing quakes in washington dc and missouri? could these things add to plate tectonic stresses? my theory is that about thirty days after the ol miss recedes to normal level there will be a quake in the areas i first mentioned. Anytime a large mass like an ice sheet is removed quickly, such as during this current inter-glacial warming, there is the expectation that the crust below will rebound and in doing so produce seismic events. The North Pole is in the Arctic Ocean so we have to limit a simple model to the North American continent and that I believe would slowly rebound due to the ice melting. The other end in the south I would agree should show a negative elevation adjustment in accordance to the mantle depressurizing and readjusting for the crust's new displacement requirements. I don't see how you can choose such a narrow window for an event such as this, being this melting/rebound began at the end of the last glacial period and continues to this day.
robomont Posted May 25, 2013 Posted May 25, 2013 i look at it like a seesaw.theory. lotsa weight on one side then a little wwight wont make a difference.ie flooding. almost no wwight on the far side and then a flood on this side.major changes.these drought conditions we had and the wild swing to high ground saturation and flooding in my opinion means high potential for guakes and uplift at the polar region.maybe even stimulating iceland volcano. the reason for the narrow date on a quake in dc is the miss had gone back down about a month before the last big dc quake last year? remember because of the drought the ol miss was low last year.filled up then started dropping again.i think with the polar cap dissapearing is the reason quakes are more often.the cap is like a shock absorber on the other end of the seesaw.
arc Posted May 25, 2013 Author Posted May 25, 2013 This should help you in your studies. This phenomena almost completely involves one directional movement over the deglaciation period as the crust and mantle find equilibrium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound Due to the extreme viscosity of the mantle, it will take many thousands of years for the land to reach an equilibrium level. .... both postglacial rebound and past tectonics play important roles in today's intraplate earthquakes in eastern Canada and southeast USA. Generally postglacial rebound stress could have triggered the intraplate earthquakes in eastern Canada and may have played some role in triggering earthquakes in eastern USA including the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811.
arc Posted June 28, 2013 Author Posted June 28, 2013 http://science.nasa...._magneticfield/ A supercomputer model showing flow patterns in Earth's liquid core. Dr. Gary A. Glatzmaier - Los Alamos National Laboratory - U.S. Department of Energy. This article states that globally the magnetic field has weakened 10% since the 19th century. And according to Dr. Glatzmaier; "The field is increasing or decreasing all the time," "We know this from studies of the paleomagnetic record." According to the article; Earth's present-day magnetic field is, in fact, much stronger than normal. The dipole moment, a measure of the intensity of the magnetic field, is now 8 × 1022 amps × m2. That's twice the million-year average of 4× 1022 amps × m2. The mantle in this model is displaced by the thermal expansion of the outer core's liquid iron from the increased amplitude of current within the magnetic field's magnetohydrodynamic generator. The mantle's outward movement, against the force of gravity, produces a strain energy response as the mantle's viscosity resists the expansion, creating thermal heating of the mantle material as the strain tension is released. The strain energy response and thermal release increases proportionally to the distance from the mantle-core boundary, culminating at the crust-mantle boundary with maximum expansionary movement and strain energy thermal heating. The mantle's outer boundary surface area is stretched out and torn producing melting of the surrounding surface area materials. This thermal heating of the crust-mantle boundary coincides with the expansionary movement of the crust by the displaced mantle, providing a link between the thermal forcing of Earth's ocean and atmosphere to historic periods of plate tectonic expansion and contraction. As an example, the extension of the Basin and Range Area is dated to the Miocene Epoch (5.3 - 23.03 MYA). The province is believed to be the result of tectonic extensional processes that began around 17 million years ago in the Early Miocene. It was considered a warmer climate period than the following Pliocene and Pleistocene Epochs that were cooler periods of climate that coincide with the Himalayan and Andes mountain building periods, which according to this model are the result of a cooling of the outer core producing a contraction in the mantel/crust. These structures would require large scale subduction and displacement of crustal gravitational potential energy into the folded and raised rock strata. These mountain structures occurred while the Earth's climate went into a period of Ice Ages. This model gives significant, but not unambiguous, evidence that the thermal variability of the outer core produces coordinated geologic restructuring and climate forcing. arc
sunnydart Posted July 16, 2013 Posted July 16, 2013 do these plates help in cooling the surface of earth with the help of ground water inside earth.. ? like radiator cool the piston or cylinder surface inside the engine is it also possible..?
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted July 16, 2013 Posted July 16, 2013 Arc John Joly a french professor of the turn of the century 1890-1920 proposed, with the then recent understanding of radio activity,that the inside of the earth was heating up in certain places under the supercontinent of Pangea to such an extent that massive rents in the earths crust occurred. To cause Pangea to split . To move apart by the later understood Plate techtonics. Does Joly,s theory work with your new mechanism for Plate movement ? I think this was late Permian . And I believe the Deccan traps and the older Siberian traps with lava 5 km thick figured in the break up of Pangea. Is this about Right? Mike
arc Posted July 17, 2013 Author Posted July 17, 2013 (edited) do these plates help in cooling the surface of earth with the help of ground water inside earth.. ? like radiator cool the piston or cylinder surface inside the engine is it also possible..? Hello sunnydart, in both this model and the current standard model the planet's interior heat is migrating to the surface. http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2011/07/17/kamland-geoneutrinos/ This article is about the Kamioka Liquid-scintillator Antineutrino Detector (KamLAND), and states, of the 44 trillion watts of heat that continually flows from Earth's interior into space, 50 percent of the heat is due to radioactive decay and other sources, and primordial heat left over from the planet's formation must account for the rest. The research says radioactive decay of uranium, thorium, and potassium in Earth's crust and mantle is a principal source of the 20+ trillion watts. But where does the other slightly more than half come from? Stuart Freedman who is a member of Berkeley Lab's Nuclear Science Division and a professor in the Department of Physics at the University of California at Berkeley and who is also leading the participation of the U.S. Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab), says in the article; "One thing we can say with near certainty is that radioactive decay alone is not enough to account for Earth's heat energy". "Whether the rest is primordial heat or comes from some other source is an unanswered question." So this heat will move to cooler materials such as continental and ocean crusts. The ocean crust makes up 66% of total crustal area and is 1/5 as thick as the continental crust. The continental crust is approximately 25-70 km (31 mi), thick and with the ocean crust that is 7-10 km (6.2 mi) thick, they together form the upper layer of the tectonic plates. The ocean heat conveyor in my model is driven by the thermal release of the 80,000 kilometer (49,700 mile) long tectonic rift system that is referred to as the mid-ocean ridge. This system contains the world's largest continuous volcanic mountain range stretching 65,000 kilometers (40,400 mile) and occupies every ocean in the world including the Arctic Ocean sea floor. These volcanic structures rise to more than 3657 meters (12,000 ft.) high and are 1931 kilometers (1,200 miles) wide. While the ridge does run in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean it does not do so in all the others. While the average ocean crust depth is 8km (5 miles thick.) 1/5 as thick as the continents crust, it is just a mere 1 to 2 km (0.62 to 1.2 mi), at the point where the sea floor is formed by magma flowing into the fissure created by the opposing movement of the ocean crust. Image oceanexplorer.noaa.gov As seawater is forced under pressure into the layers of semi molten rock under the mid-ocean ridge (heat exchanger), it is heated to 300-400°C (572-752 F) and becomes extremely corrosive from volcanic chemicals. This high pressure super-heated fluid is capable of dissolving the surrounding basaltic rock and leaching out metals and other elements. This fluid is also very buoyant and begins rising rapidly back to the surface, reentering the ocean at hydrothermal vents. Measurements show that heat flow is 10 times greater near the ridge crests than for ordinary oceanic crust. Heat flow is a measure of the heat escaping per second from a given area and is usually measured in watts/m2. The numerous hot springs at divergent plate boundaries show that significant heat is also carried out of the crust by convective pore water. This data implies that a large source of magma lies beneath the ridge. Image courtesy NASA But to be an efficient atmospheric heat exchanger the ocean would have to resemble the dimensions of an industrial cooling pond. A large surface area with shallow depth to maximize evaporation and thermal transfer. http://www.scribd.com/doc/61249428/Introduction-to-Physical-Oceanography#outer_page_32 Oceanic dimensions range from around 1500 km (932 miles) for the minimum width of the Atlantic to more than 13,000 km (8,077) for the north-south extent of the Atlantic and the width of the Pacific. Typical depths are only 3–4 km. So horizontal dimensions of ocean basins are 1,000 times greater than the vertical dimension. A scale model of the Pacific, the size of an 8.5 x ×11 inch sheet of paper, would have dimensions similar to the paper: a width of 10,000 km scales to 10 in, and a depth of 3 km scales to 0.003 in, the typical thickness of a piece of paper. So, as you can deduct from the paragraphs above, in either model a majority of that heat ends up in the ocean. Whether or not you want to call it a planetary cooling system is up to you. I do not believe it is, the volumetric heat capacity of the Earth dominates the ocean to such extremes the ocean could not handle a true thermal equivalent of what would be considered a balanced system. The atmosphere weighs 5,700,000,000,000,000 (quadrillion) tons or a little over a millionth (0.000 001) or 1/1,200,000 of one Earth mass. The oceans 320,000,000 cubic miles of sea water weigh 1,450,000,000,000,000,000 tons which is 0.022 percent of the total mass of Earth. That puts things into perspective; the ocean dominates the atmosphere in both mass and temperature bias but is almost insignificant compared to the volumetric heat capacity (VHC) of the planets solid mass that contains temperatures high enough to phase-change the ocean into a Venus like atmosphere if even a fraction of the VHC was transferred into the ocean. Arc John Joly a french professor of the turn of the century 1890-1920 proposed, with the then recent understanding of radio activity,that the inside of the earth was heating up in certain places under the supercontinent of Pangea to such an extent that massive rents in the earths crust occurred. To cause Pangea to split . To move apart by the later understood Plate techtonics. Does Joly,s theory work with your new mechanism for Plate movement ? I think this was late Permian . And I believe the Deccan traps and the older Siberian traps with lava 5 km thick figured in the break up of Pangea. Is this about Right? Mike Hi Mike, the heat that Joly's model speculated to cause the super-continent breakup appears to be, if I understand correctly, caused by the large continent trapping the heat that slowly built up to a level that broke the land mass, releasing the immense volcanic lava flows. My model does not require a localized thermal content to break up land masses. The model has the crust put in tension during the outer cores expansion from increased temperature. The continental breakups are just periods of higher amplitude in the field generator. The crust is extended to a greater degree during these higher energy periods. The extra expansion in the crust produces the massive lava releases like the Deccan traps. The Deccan Traps were formed at the end of the cretaceous period 60 - 68 million years ago at which time it was estimated to cover 1.5 million square kilometers possibly half the size of India. Most of the volcanic flood basalt erupted near the area of the Western Ghats and continued off and on for maybe 30,000 years forming multiple layers of more than 2,000 m (6,562 ft) thick. It is considered one of the largest volcanic features on Earth. A real clear example of tension fracture and magma release according to my model would be the forming of the Atlantic Ocean. At the end of the Triassic period some 200 million years ago, environmental devastation by almost continuous volcanic activity eliminated half of all species that lived alongside the early dinosaurs, including most of the large amphibians and around one-fifth of marine organisms. Most of the land on Earth was locked up in the Pangaea super-continent, but this broke apart when the North American and African tectonic plates parted. The separation of the plates created a basin that became the Atlantic Ocean and opened up fissures in the Earth's crust, triggering volcanic eruptions that lasted for 600,000 years. The Mid Atlantic Ridge is a classic expansion fracture in massive scale. Edited July 17, 2013 by arc
arc Posted July 24, 2013 Author Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) Hi Mike, the heat that Joly's model speculated to cause the super-continent breakup appears to be, if I understand correctly, caused by the large continent trapping the heat that slowly built up to a level that broke the land mass, releasing the immense volcanic lava flows. My model does not require a localized thermal content to break up land masses. The model has the crust put in tension during the outer cores expansion from increased temperature. The continental breakups are just periods of higher amplitude in the field generator. The crust is extended to a greater degree during these higher energy periods. The extra expansion in the crust produces the massive lava releases like the Deccan traps. The Deccan Traps were formed at the end of the cretaceous period 60 - 68 million years ago at which time it was estimated to cover 1.5 million square kilometers possibly half the size of India. Most of the volcanic flood basalt erupted near the area of the Western Ghats and continued off and on for maybe 30,000 years forming multiple layers of more than 2,000 m (6,562 ft) thick. It is considered one of the largest volcanic features on Earth. A real clear example of tension fracture and magma release according to my model would be the forming of the Atlantic Ocean. At the end of the Triassic period some 200 million years ago, environmental devastation by almost continuous volcanic activity eliminated half of all species that lived alongside the early dinosaurs, including most of the large amphibians and around one-fifth of marine organisms. Most of the land on Earth was locked up in the Pangaea super-continent, but this broke apart when the North American and African tectonic plates parted. The separation of the plates created a basin that became the Atlantic Ocean and opened up fissures in the Earth's crust, triggering volcanic eruptions that lasted for 600,000 years. The Mid Atlantic Ridge is a classic expansion fracture in massive scale. Earth_seafloor_crust_age_1996.gif I am out of town for a few days and fortunately the hour and a half drive gave me a chance to take a few pics of one of my favorite areas. This is the Columbia river gorge between Oregon and Washington state, these images are of the Washington side and show the multiple layers of flood basalt flows that covered this region repeatedly. images above by this author Sometime in the middle of the Miocene, 17 to 15, Ma the Columbia Plateau and the Oregon portion of the Basin and Range became flooded with lava flows. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_River_Basalt_Group Photo taken from Three Devil's Grade in mid-Moses Coulee in November, 2006. Taken by uploader. All rights released. Williamborg 02:08, 18 November 2006 (UTC) The upper basalt is Roza Member, while the lower canyon exposes Frenchmen Springs Member basalt. The Wanapum Basalt is comprised of the Eckler Mountain Member (15.6 million years ago), the Frenchmen Springs Member (15.5 million years ago), the Roza Member (14.9 million years ago) and the Priest Rapids Member (14.5 million years ago). For scale, note the cattle feed lot (square at bottom of the canyon). During late Miocene and early Pliocene epochs, one of the largest flood basalts ever to appear on the Earth's surface engulfed about 163,700 km2 (63,200 sq mi) of the Pacific Northwest, forming a large igneous province with an estimated volume of 174,300 km3 (41,800 cu mi). Eruptions were most vigorous from 17–14 million years ago, when over 99 percent of the basalt was released. Grande Ronde Basalt The next oldest of the flows, from 17 million to 15.6 million years ago, make up the Grande Ronde Basalt. Units (flow zones) within the Grande Ronde Basalt include the Meyer Ridge and the Sentinel Bluffs units. Geologists estimate that the Grande Ronde Basalt comprises about 85 percent of the total flow volume. It is characterized by a number of dikes called the Chief Joseph Dike Swarm near Joseph, Enterprise, Troy and Walla Walla through which the lava up-welling occurred (estimates range to up to 20,000 such dikes). Many of the dikes were fissures 5 to 10 m (16 to 33 ft) wide and up to 10 miles (16 km) in length, allowing for huge quantities of magma upwelling. Much of the lava flowed north into Washington as well as down the Columbia River channel to the Ocean Pacific; the tremendous flows created the Columbia River Plateau. The weight of this flow caused central Washington to sink, creating the broad Columbia Basin in Washington..Currently, the cause of this is highly debated. Mantle Plumb Theory is one of the ideas proposed but I believe the tension of the thermal expansion cycle is a strong contender. Below is what I posted on page one post # 5 Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:21 PM Well, I think I'll discuss some of the evidence of the crust being put under extreme tension for millions of years. In the S.W. United States there is the Basin and Range area, the lateral displacement varies between 60 to 300 km since the beginning of the extension in the early Miocene. The Miocene Epoch was 23.03 to 5.3 million years ago. Currently there is no clear and concise explanation for this event.The particular latitudinal section of sea floor that was subducted or overran by this area extends all the way to the Mariana Trench (A) in the western Pacific. Interesting isn't it. The deepest trench in the world is on one end and the largest example of extensional processes is on the other. The eastern side of this section of sea floor has defined fault slip edges referred to as the Mendocino Fracture Zone in the north and the Murray Fracture Zone in the south. The model has the Pacific Plate over ran and held by the North American continent due to a long period of contraction from the previously mentioned mechanism. As the cycle changes to thermal expansion the plate was loaded with slowly increasing tension from the plates inability to move through mechanisms such as a divergent plate boundary. The subduction under the N. American continent eliminated all or most of that tension release mechanism. The Basin and Range was pulled instead, possibly through several thermal cycles, while the Mariana Trench was pulled eastward. This is clearly observed in the image below. Image above used and modified by this author was furnished through and no way endorsed by Ryan, W. B. F., S.M. Carbotte, J. Coplan, S. O'Hara, A. Melkonian, R. Arko, R.A. Weissel, V. Ferrini, A. Goodwillie, F. Nitsche, J. Bonczkowski, and R. Zemsky (2009), Global Multi-Resolution Topography (GMRT) synthesis data set, Geochem. Geophys. Geosyst., 10, Q03014, doi:10.1029/2008GC002332. Data doi: 10.1594/IEDA.0001000, through http://creativecommo...y-nc-sa/3.0/us/ (estimates range to up to 20,000 such dikes). Many of the dikes were fissures 5 to 10 m (16 to 33 ft) wide and up to 10 miles (16 km) in length, allowing for huge quantities of magma upwelling According to the model, the expansion seen in the Basin and Range Area is concurrent with the Columbia Basin Basalt Floods, and they are both the product of the same geologic force. The overrunning of the Pacific Plate during cooling and contraction of the mantle, and then extension during the Miocene resulted in the extension and fracturing of the overlaying continental crust. Image courtesy of USGS Edited July 24, 2013 by arc
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) ....as above ...... Arc It would be nice if you could make some form of ANIMATED video of how you see by your model working , ( both Atlantic and Pacific ) Producing all the proceeding verbal explanations. Even if this was by simple yet clear BLOCK movements with the relevant upwelling and subduction ( more accurately the way you describe it ) mike. Edited July 25, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted July 25, 2013 Posted July 25, 2013 Arc It would be nice if you could make some form of ANIMATED video of how you see by your model working , ( both Atlantic and Pacific ) Producing all the proceeding verbal explanations. Even if this was by simple yet clear BLOCK movements with the relevant upwelling and subduction ( more accurately the way you describe it ) mike. Great Pictures of Basalt Flow in Columbia
arc Posted July 26, 2013 Author Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) Great Pictures of Basalt Flow in Columbia Thanks Mike. Arc It would be nice if you could make some form of ANIMATED video of how you see by your model working , ( both Atlantic and Pacific ) Producing all the proceeding verbal explanations. Even if this was by simple yet clear BLOCK movements with the relevant upwelling and subduction ( more accurately the way you describe it ) mike. I am not much of an artist so I rely on images from USGS, NOAA and NASA for illustrations that may or may not convey the idea I am trying to express. I need to include more of them, but if they do not quite fit It can seem confusing. It is difficult to determine the amount of background information to include. I hope those that are geologically fluent are not put off by the recycled images, while in the other direction the reader with little geologic understanding is left confused by the lack of more basic explanations. It is difficult to balance this difference. I have opted for the "keep it simple" and hope for the best. I have over the years discovered that most people are not interested in geology. It is the most challenging of all spectator pass times, nobody would watch tennis if it took the ball 20 million years to cross the net. OK, here is an image I acquired through GeoMapApp with some overlays that I added. So A is the Columbia River Gorge where the images of the basalt flows were taken. The area in red is a rough outline of the range the flows achieved. "forming a large igneous province with an estimated volume of 174,300 km3 (41,800 cu mi). Eruptions were most vigorous from 17–14 million years ago, when over 99 percent of the basalt was released." About this time the basin and range extension occurred, It is roughly outlined in blue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basin_and_Range_Province The physiography of the province is the result of tectonic extension that began around 17 Ma (million years ago) in Early Miocene time. Well, we have two unusual events happening during the same period of geologic history, these are probably related in some way. In the model the Earth's magnetic field generator had previously been in a lower energy period, causing the mantle to contract inward while putting the crust into a state of long term compression and subduction. This caused the Pacific Plate to be overrun by the N.A. continent. The mid ocean ridge that had been the divergent plate boundary between the Pacific and the completely subducted Farallon plate was now slowly moving east under the continental crust. At 17 million years ago it was at a somewhat longitudinal north-south position under what is now the Columbia River Basalt Group then running south passing under the Basin and Range Area. Divergent boundaries are very thin sections of crust, while the average ocean crust depth is 8 km (5 miles thick.) 1/5 as thick as the continents crust, it is just a mere 1 to 2 km (0.62 to 1.2 mi), at the point where the sea floor is continually formed by magma flowing into the fissure created by the opposing movement of the ocean crust. At 17 Million years ago this thin section is not operating as a tension releasing mechanism but is still able to allow large heat flow from the mantle through it's thin boundary area, exposing the overlaying continental crust to its higher temperatures. The model then has the field generator increasing to a level that produces the slow outward displacement of the mantle and the extending of the worlds divergent boundaries. The Pacific plate is put in tension, it's anchor point at the far side of the Pacific in the Mariana Trench allows the greatest amount of lateral kinetic movement. The Pacific plate is pulled, extending the preheated overriding crust. As time passes the Basin and Range Area is slowly pulled, extending out to its current condition. At some point when the tension reaches a level beyond the subducted plate's strength, the plate fractures and creates the Central Valley (C) as the broken edge is drawn west and the overlaying crust collapses into the void. The plate failure resulted in a massive fault slip in the ocean plates Mendocino (D) and Murray (E) fracture zones. The sudden shock of the release of tension can be seen in the tearing of the adjacent plate section to the north. The explosive movement tore the seafloor creating the Juan de Fuca fracture (B). Up to this catastrophic event the Columbia basin had been in an extension event concurrent with the Basin and Range to the south and had been producing flood basalt flows through the thousands of tension fractures that resulted. (estimates range to up to 20,000 such dikes). Many of the dikes were fissures 5 to 10 m (16 to 33 ft) wide and up to 10 miles (16 km) in length, allowing for huge quantities of magma upwelling. This abundant basaltic material was due to the Yellowstone Hot Spot. It is according to the model aligned with and centered on the subducted divergent boundary that is slowly moving east and is today in its present location in NW Wyoming. This catastrophic plate failure was possibly the impetus for the larger basaltic releases, the shock wave would have likely triggered responses of this type. Images above used and modified by this author was furnished through and in no way endorsed by Ryan, W. B. F., S.M. Carbotte, J. Coplan, S. O'Hara, A. Melkonian, R. Arko, R.A. Weissel, V. Ferrini, A. Goodwillie, F. Nitsche, J. Bonczkowski, and R. Zemsky (2009), Global Multi-Resolution Topography (GMRT) synthesis data set, Geochem. Geophys. Geosyst., 10, Q03014, doi:10.1029/2008GC002332. Data doi: 10.1594/IEDA.0001000, through http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ Edited July 26, 2013 by arc
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted July 27, 2013 Posted July 27, 2013 Arc I have opted for the "keep it simple" and hope for the best. I have over the years discovered that most people are notinterested in geology. It is the most challenging of all spectator pass times, nobody would watch tennis if it took the ball 20 million years to cross the net. Just for me , can you go one or two stage simpler ! I liked reading and viewing the above post but I need a layer or two back out a bit . Mike
arc Posted July 28, 2013 Author Posted July 28, 2013 Arc Just for me , can you go one or two stage simpler ! I liked reading and viewing the above post but I need a layer or two back out a bit . Mike Mike, what would you like to know more about. I have additional images from my website and I can explain any detail you would like more information about.
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Mike, what would you like to know more about. I have additional images from my website and I can explain any detail you would like more information about. Yes ,Thanks. Well not being a geologist, the whole thing is new to me anyway.even before your new theory:- of how it works ( Plate Tectonics ) particularly. I have a particular type of way of thinking ! I can not do anything about it . I have had it all my life. Anything that is spoken to me; anything written, any idea, any maths, any anything My brains seems to ONLY understand it , reason with it , process it with an IMAGE. If I can not translate it to an image, I get really STUCK. I can't remember it , Can't deal with it , Can't really attempt to understand it. So I need a pictorial sequence , which can be in simple spoken images ( if you can get your head around that ) . So starting with the SUN , keeping it with things I can make a mental picture of , ....da de da de da .. Can be a series of sketches,, this goes out that way , this shrinks, that pushes out that way , with not too many sequencial specialised words in a row . Its as if you were having to explain your theory to a child. All that you have explained to date, in brief about your theory . This child , who is going to be the only one sent away on a space ship into the far depths of space to return after the world has suffered some extermination event , and return to inform the remaining few survivors YOUR THEORY of HOW the World Works ( Tectonically that is ). Because the extermination event was the mother of all Magma Flows making Deccan Trapps or Siberian Trapps look small by comparison . And that child had a mind like mine. THINKS IN IMAGES . ( You and I and most others died in the extermination event ) [ The mother of all Basalt , magma outfows ] Go ! Edited July 28, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos
arc Posted July 28, 2013 Author Posted July 28, 2013 Can I wait till the kid grows up! Well let me think about this, it is really quite a bit more challenging than what I have done so far.
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted July 28, 2013 Posted July 28, 2013 Can I wait till the kid grows up! Well let me think about this, it is really quite a bit more challenging than what I have done so far. Yes , But it is a good discipline . mike
arc Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) you know,its a good thing you didn't include any refrences to intelligent design or God...otherwise our dear moderator would have put it in speculations...even though it is pure speculation. Speculation! I take exception to that. The difference between a speculative argument and a theory is that the theory makes accurate predictions. This hypothesis has very accurate predictive qualities. Let me show you. http://science.nasa...._magneticfield/ Earth's present-day magnetic field is, in fact, much stronger than normal. The dipole moment, a measure of the intensity of the magnetic field, is now 8 × 1022 amps × m2. That's twice the million-year average of 4× 1022 amps × m2. My hypothesis simply requires that the molten iron of the Earth's magnetic field generator will vary over million year time periods, and that is verified in the above. An increase in amperage will always include an increase in temperature. The temperature increase will in turn always produce thermal expansion of the molten iron. This will displace the mantle and release strain energy in the form of heat during its outward expansion. The slow increase in the mantles circumference will require the crust to separate and adjust to release the continual tension. How does this match observations? The Pacific divergent plate boundary expands more than the Atlantic's does. But why? Shouldn't they expand the same if the crust is being pushed out by the mantle. The answer is seen in a simple thought experiment that I use to illustrate the solution. Imagine the Earth with one single belt of seafloor around the equator with one end considered attached, immovable. The other end a short distance away unconnected. Now we can apply the thermal increase that displaces the mantle and extends the crust. We can now see the gap between the plate ends open a given degree. Now we all know that if the belt was divided in half and then in quarters it would with each reduction in length show a proportional reduction in movement. This means that a wider ocean plate like the Pacific would show more movement than a narrower one. And the Pacific plate having the widest expanse of plate material shows an unusually large amount of movement resulting in more infill. While the Atlantic being narrower shows a proportionally smaller amount of movement. This is an accurate prediction using this model. When the field generator's cycle changes to a lower amperage the process reverses to a slow contraction in the mantle with the crust now loading up its raised mass as gravitational potential energy that will be displaced into the trenches by the divergent plate boundaries recent infill. Cycles that are widely spaced can result in extra infill which in conjunction with a long decrease in core temperature will produce excessive kinetic movement. The resulting increased crustal movement and compression will surpass the trenches rates of resistance and redirect the energy to the vertical displacement of rock into mountain complexes. There is currently not any other hypotheses or even theory that can offer a clear and direct mechanism for mountain structures even close to this. It also provides answers for the processes involved in Island arcs, deep ocean trenches, the Basin and Range Area, the San Andrea's Fault and continental break-up and collisions. It even provides a mechanism for the large scale flood basalt events like the Deccan and Siberian Traps. This is hypothesis is much more than mere speculation. Edited August 1, 2013 by arc
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Speculation! I take exception to that. The difference between a speculative argument and a theory is that the theory makes accurate predictions. This hypothesis has very accurate predictive qualities. Let me show you. http://science.nasa...._magneticfield/ Earth's present-day magnetic field is, in fact, much stronger than normal. The dipole moment, a measure of the intensity of the magnetic field, is now 8 × 1022 amps × m2. That's twice the million-year average of 4× 1022 amps × m2. My hypothesis simply requires that the molten iron of the Earth's magnetic field generator will vary over million year time periods, and that is verified in the above. An increase in amperage will always include an increase in temperature. The temperature increase will in turn always produce thermal expansion of the molten iron. This will displace the mantle and release strain energy in the form of heat during its outward expansion. The slow increase in the mantles circumference will require the crust to separate and adjust to release the continual tension. How does this match observations? The Pacific divergent plate boundary expands more than the Atlantic's does. But why? Shouldn't they expand the same if the crust is being pushed out by the mantle. The answer is in a mind experiment that I designed. Imagine the Earth with one single belt of seafloor around the equator with one end considered attached, immovable. The other end a short distance away unconnected. Now we can apply the thermal increase that displaces the mantle and extends the crust. We then see the gap between the plate ends open a given degree. Now we all know that if the belt was divided in half and then in quarters it would with each reduction in length show a proportional reduction in movement. This means that a wider plate would show more movement than a narrower one. And the Pacific plate having the widest expanse of plate material shows an unusually large amount of movement resulting in more infill. While the Atlantic being narrower shows a proportionally smaller amount of movement. This is an accurate prediction using this model. When the field generator's cycle changes to a lower amperage the process reverses to a slow contraction with the crust now loading up its raised mass as gravitational potential energy that will be displaced into the trenches by the divergent plate boundaries recent infill. Cycles that are widely spaced can result in extra infill which in conjunction with a long decrease in core temperature will produce excessive kinetic movement. The resulting increased crustal movement and compression will surpass the trenches rates of resistance and redirect the energy to the vertical displacement of rock into mountain complexes. There is currently not any other hypotheses or even theory that can offer a clear and direct mechanism for mountain structures even close to this. It also provides answers for the processes involved in Island arcs, deep ocean trenches, the Basin and Range Area, the San Andrea's Fault and continental break-up and collisions. It even provides a mechanism for the large scale flood basalt events like the Deccan and Siberian Traps. This is hypothesis is much more than mere speculation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ............Well explained ! .........Becoming a lot clearer ! ............. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If I were sitting across a table from you , I would be sketching boundary regions, showing what I thought you meant, and getting a response from you " no mike , Not like that ," Like this. " or "yes exactly " da de da ...... Alas! I am not sitting across a table from you, and also my Paint program with sketching facilities has gone AWOL ( absent without leave). I have so many questions to ask. Living over here ,around the Atlantic Ocean as opposed to the Pacific Ocean I am less familiar with the Topography and layout of Island Arcs, columbian rivers and Mountain ranges on the western North American continent. So sweeps , of mental images of Colu...., island.... take a bit of getting my head around in a sentence. Now if you were talking about the Canary Islands and the west coast of France with the Loire River Valley . Or Gibralta and The entrance to the Mediterrainian sea. The west coast of Africa and the Congo River. , The gulf of Mexico, New york South America and the Amazon river . Iceland, Greenland, The Azores THEN all the images come flooding in and ready for stories of deep down amps changing, mantle's expanding, crusts opening with great Basalt flows ,flowing and Islands pushing up from the ocean floor . ....but the pacific is too far away from my experience to get a good clear grasp of .... and my images are pale,... faded and inaccurate................... island arcs..................too unsure............... I would love nothing better than to build up IMAGES of The pacific and its rim mountains, rivers islands etc , in the same way I have of the Atlantic , but that would take another lifetime. As indeed I am starting with your lovely pictures of the Columbia area . Thanks ! Mike https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Pangea_animation_03.gif Iceberg A22A in the South Atlantic Ocean Experiment Devon UK through Earth to British Columbria We must live on the exact opposite sides of the Globe. No wonder Columbian basins are foreign to me ! Maybe we could do some form of experiment. Like I wisper into a drain and you listen with your ear to a drain on the other side of the globe ....ooops ... some time later ...... 12,000 seconds thats 200 minutes thats 30 hours thats a day and a half very approx later . ps [ sums are a bit loose .... may be a third of that .. half a day you should be able to work it out you are the underground specialist ] [ if I go and hit the drain cast iron lid with a hammer now! you shoulld be able to hear it with a Dr's Stethascope when you put it to a drain when you get up ! ] .. it was a bum idea anyway ! mike pps I just went out the door and hit the Drain with a hammer a few times [ its 8 :45 am our time ] : Edited August 1, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos
arc Posted August 1, 2013 Author Posted August 1, 2013 Mike, the more I explain it the clearer it becomes to me also. This is really simple mechanics, we have unfortunately had to many decades of complex theories trying to explain these events. And when two or three complex geologic theories are worked together they require many little adjustments. What came out has been much to complex for the casual observer. I hope to remove all of that complexity and show this as really simple electro-mechanical cause and effects. All of the diagrams and images that you find online by USGS, NOAA and NASA and in other references are all accurate to my model, I am simply reinterpreting the evidence. Finding a much simpler and more accurate explanation for the structures we see. Try Google Earth it is a great tool to explore the world. Use it to look at the ocean floor, you won't believe what you can see.
creationist Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 hi creationist here..i like your reply to my suggestion that your theory was speculation..you are right,its a very interesting idea and I will have to read your post several times in order to really get fully what your saying. you are obviously a brilliant man! I was a little on edge last night when I commented on your post...there seems to be a lot of arrogance present in these science rooms and it got the best of me...no offense I hope. I do have a question for you maybe you can help me out here...what do you know about the newly discovered Crossover Depth in the mantle??
arc Posted August 2, 2013 Author Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) Speculation! I take exception to that. The difference between a speculative argument and a theory is that the theory makes accurate predictions. This hypothesis has very accurate predictive qualities. Let me show you. http://science.nasa...._magneticfield/ Earth's present-day magnetic field is, in fact, much stronger than normal. The dipole moment, a measure of the intensity of the magnetic field, is now 8 × 1022 amps × m2. That's twice the million-year average of 4× 1022 amps × m2. My hypothesis simply requires that the molten iron of the Earth's magnetic field generator will vary over million year time periods, and that is verified in the above. An increase in amperage will always include an increase in temperature. The temperature increase will in turn always produce thermal expansion of the molten iron. This will displace the mantle and release strain energy in the form of heat during its outward expansion. The slow increase in the mantles circumference will require the crust to separate and adjust to release the continual tension. How does this match observations? The Pacific divergent plate boundary expands more than the Atlantic's does. But why? Shouldn't they expand the same if the crust is being pushed out by the mantle. The answer is seen in a simple thought experiment that I use to illustrate the solution. Imagine the Earth with one single belt of seafloor around the equator with one end considered attached, immovable. The other end a short distance away unconnected. Now we can apply the thermal increase that displaces the mantle and extends the crust. We can now see the gap between the plate ends open a given degree. Now we all know that if the belt was divided in half and then in quarters it would with each reduction in length show a proportional reduction in movement. This means that a wider ocean plate like the Pacific would show more movement than a narrower one. And the Pacific plate having the widest expanse of plate material shows an unusually large amount of movement resulting in more infill. While the Atlantic being narrower shows a proportionally smaller amount of movement. This is an accurate prediction using this model. When the field generator's cycle changes to a lower amperage the process reverses to a slow contraction in the mantle with the crust now loading up its raised mass as gravitational potential energy that will be displaced into the trenches by the divergent plate boundaries recent infill. Cycles that are widely spaced can result in extra infill which in conjunction with a long decrease in core temperature will produce excessive kinetic movement. The resulting increased crustal movement and compression will surpass the trenches rates of resistance and redirect the energy to the vertical displacement of rock into mountain complexes. There is currently not any other hypotheses or even theory that can offer a clear and direct mechanism for mountain structures even close to this. It also provides answers for the processes involved in Island arcs, deep ocean trenches, the Basin and Range Area, the San Andrea's Fault and continental break-up and collisions. It even provides a mechanism for the large scale flood basalt events like the Deccan and Siberian Traps. This is hypothesis is much more than mere speculation. Let me show you another speculation. Image below used and modified by this author was furnished through and in no way endorsed by http://www.geomapapp.org using Global Multi-Resolution Topography (GMRT) Synthesis, Ryan, W. B. F., S.M. Carbotte, J. Coplan, S. O'Hara, A. Melkonian, R. Arko, R.A. Weissel, V. Ferrini, A. Goodwillie, F. Nitsche, J. Bonczkowski, and R. Zemsky (2009), Global Multi-Resolution Topography (GMRT) synthesis data set, Geochem. Geophys. Geosyst., 10, Q03014, doi:10.1029/2008GC002332. Data doi: 10.1594/IEDA.0001000, through http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/us/ The current understanding of the island chain is that they are the result of a hypothetical mantle plume (hot spot) that rises, possibly from the core, up through the mantle in periodic events. The current standard model infers the ocean crust is in constant motion and the mantle plumes of magma are responsible for the periodicity and volume of each island building event. According to my model the reason the islands are separated and fairly individual is the islands are built during thermal expansion when there is not any substantial lateral movement in the tectonic plates; the crust is expanding imperceptibly out from the core and at which time the mid-ocean ridges are receiving infill’s of magma. Though the plate and hot spot vent will offset slightly towards the convergent plate boundary as the plate rises from expansion (like a door swings) offsetting the vent tube proportionally to the rise, it does not have the massive gravitationally driven kinetic energy (movement) of the contraction cycle. The sea mount and hot spot are a thermal expansion dependent mechanism, possibly a large deep tear in the lithosphere from past historic hyper-thermal events. They are pressurized with hydraulic magma from the crust/mantle boundary area during the thermal expansion of the mantle and are slightly raised causing the crust to be stretched and thinned, possibly even cracked when positioned over the hot spot exposing the crust to high levels of superheated magma. The length of the thermal event (the amount of power induced into the core) determines if the stay over the hot spot is long enough to build an individual island or just a short period that produces a small seamount on the ocean floor. A series of short cooling periods interrupting an overall thermal period would build a chain of superimposed volcanoes as the crust intermittently shifted and then continued lava discharge. Eventually the core begins cooling and as the strain energy heat content of the mantle moves into the crust and ocean. The fissures are slowly closed causing the volcanoes to become dormant. The crust moves towards the core putting itself into compression against the recent ridge infill. Depending on the timing between thermal cycles and the convergent trenches rate of resistance the crust will shift to the direction of least resistance. Globally, 80,000 km of mid ocean ridges are producing new crust, and only 30,500 km of trenches exist to receive it, this would indicate on average the ocean crust takes over twice as long to subduct as does the creation of the mid ocean ridge material that replaces it. But that time span is determined by the trenches rate of resistance which lengthens the time period and by the increased compression from variable cooling periods that reduce the time. Sizes of the older seamounts in the northern section [C] are indicative of large thermal periods. The seamounts in the upper section [C] are all of a footprint of comparable size with each other but appear to be smaller than the currently active big island of Hawaii, that after tens of millions of years of erosion to below sea level will likely be of a larger footprint. Those seamounts are assumed to be highly eroded but can reveal by their size and periodicity that they span a period of higher planetary heat flux. The spacing indicates there were small reductions in energy that initiated small contractions in the mantle that in turn slightly moved the crust. I think this hypothesis will change many timelines; the current date for the oldest sea mount is around 81 million years. Those small seamounts near the bend with wide sea floor between are likely a couple of lower energy core increases that momentarily suspended contraction, producing small expansions and sea mounts during a long low core energy period of mostly contraction of the planet. It followed a contraction period that began after a sudden drop in the cores higher energy level. In the current model the mantle plumes responsible would be small with extended periodicity. In my model the core was in a long period of lower energy maybe 20 million years with small intermittent thermal core increases. The model can show that the preceding 40 -50 million years before the bend was a higher energy period by way of the seamounts size comparison to current islands and planetary thermal levels, the northern section shows uniformity except for the lower energy period [A] which resulted in an increased contraction and movement of the crust. The seamounts show an interesting pattern, the larger the island the smaller the sea floor section between them and the smaller the island or seamount the wider the sea floor between. This shows the energy level is inverse to the distance between seamounts, which fits this hypothesis’ thermal cycle perfectly. In the current model the interpretation of this is the plumes can be of various sizes and timing. In this model the lower the energy drop the more movement in the crust will be produced and inversely the higher the energy the smaller the crustal displacement between energy events due to heat content duration. The degree of lateral movement in the crust is totally dependent on the degree of negative temperature change in the molten iron core of the field generator. Edited August 2, 2013 by arc
Mike Smith Cosmos Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) How did the experiment go. ? Posted Yesterday 7:16 my time Experiment Devon UK through Earth to British Columbia We must live on the exact opposite sides of the Globe. No wonder Columbian basins are foreign to me ! Maybe we could do some form of experiment. Like I wisper into a drain and you listen with your ear to a drain on the other side of the globe ....ooops ... some time later ...... 12,000 seconds thats 200 minutes thats 30 hours thats a day and a half very approx later . ps [ sums are a bit loose .... may be a third of that .. half a day you should be able to work it out you are the underground specialist ] [ if I go and hit the drain cast iron lid with a hammer now! you shoulld be able to hear it with a Dr's Stethascope when you put it to a drain when you get up ! ] .. it was a bum idea anyway ! mike pps I just went out the door and hit the Drain with a hammer a few times [ its 8 :45 am our time ] : mike Edited August 2, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos 1
swansont Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 hi creationist here..i like your reply to my suggestion that your theory was speculation..you are right,its a very interesting idea and I will have to read your post several times in order to really get fully what your saying. you are obviously a brilliant man! I was a little on edge last night when I commented on your post...there seems to be a lot of arrogance present in these science rooms and it got the best of me...no offense I hope. I do have a question for you maybe you can help me out here...what do you know about the newly discovered Crossover Depth in the mantle?? ! Moderator Note You have a thread for this already http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/77854-crossover-depth/ Please refrain from hijacking threads to discuss other topics. Also, please do not comment on this in the thread (use the report post function if you feel compelled to reply)
arc Posted August 3, 2013 Author Posted August 3, 2013 How did the experiment go. ? Posted Yesterday 7:16 my time We must live on the exact opposite sides of the Globe. No wonder Columbian basins are foreign to me ! Maybe we could do some form of experiment. Like I wisper into a drain and you listen with your ear to a drain on the other side of the globe ....ooops ... some time later ...... 12,000 seconds thats 200 minutes thats 30 hours thats a day and a half very approx later . ps [ sums are a bit loose .... may be a third of that .. half a day you should be able to work it out you are the underground specialist ] [ if I go and hit the drain cast iron lid with a hammer now! you shoulld be able to hear it with a Dr's Stethascope when you put it to a drain when you get up ! ] .. it was a bum idea anyway ! mike pps I just went out the door and hit the Drain with a hammer a few times [ its 8 :45 am our time ] : mike Mike, we're going to need a bigger hammer!
arc Posted August 3, 2013 Author Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) hi creationist here..i like your reply to my suggestion that your theory was speculation..you are right,its a very interesting idea and I will have to read your post several times in order to really get fully what your saying. you are obviously a brilliant man! I was a little on edge last night when I commented on your post...there seems to be a lot of arrogance present in these science rooms and it got the best of me...no offense I hope. I do have a question for you maybe you can help me out here...what do you know about the newly discovered Crossover Depth in the mantle?? OK, several things to set straight here. You may have forever damaged the phrase "brilliant - - - -". Brilliant is used to describe Galileo, Da vinchi, Newton, Einstein, Feynman and the like. Not some Yahoo like me who shows up and makes an ass of himself with some home cooked crack pot hypothesis/theory. Please go to the moderators page and take a look at the multiple categories that are discussed by the experts there; For example ajb is the first on the list, he covers 37 categories! View 37 Forums Sciences Physics Classical Physics Relativity Quantum Theory Modern and Theoretical Physics Astronomy and Cosmology Chemistry Inorganic Chemistry Organic Chemistry Applied Chemistry Biology Evolution, Morphology and Exobiology Genetics Ecology and the Environment Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Mathematics Analysis and Calculus Linear Algebra and Group Theory Applied Mathematics Mathematics Tutorials Medical Science Anatomy, Physiology and Neuroscience Microbiology and Immunology Psychiatry and Psychology Engineering Earth Science Climate Science Computer Science Computer Help Amateur Science Experiments Equipment Projects Other Sciences Trash Can Speculations 37 CATEGORIES! The moderators/experts all list either "all forums" or " view 37 forums". The level and range of knowledge on that list is staggering. Before coming to this forum I could not imagine that someone could achieve this level of expertise in more than a few subjects but they move from one to another with ease. Take for instance DH, he has 1360 +1's out of 3,630 posts. That is one +1 every 2.6 posts! You don't get these +1's for shoveling crap to people. Even at this level of knowledge these members, I'm sure, would not place themselves on a par with Newton and Einstein. Maybe brilliant has been over used lately and it means something far more common than in years past but I doubt it. So lets save it for those great minds that only come around every once in a while. To be honest, I am more than a little embarrassed by this. As I said before this site has been a humbling experience. Creator, what you see as arrogance at this site is a reflection of what is projected at them. It is everyone's attempt here to conduct science in a way that is honest and true. So that the results are accurate to the best of "ones" abilities. That we will play by the rules and not promote concepts that are not subject to observation and testing. When someone comes here with preconceived ideas that are "overly" reinforced with cherry-pick scientific facts and then further expects to arrange them in an advantageous way for argument without challenge, they are usually met with an attitude of suspicion and doubt. This is about trust, which I hope I am continuing to earn. Edited August 3, 2013 by arc 1
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