If God is love then why is there so much suffering in the world?

[seriously disabled]

There is no end to the questions but in the bottom line, the question is: If there is a God and like it's written, God is love then why does God allow all the suffering in the world to exist? Why did God allow the Holocaust to happen or the Rwandan genocide or the civil unrest in Syria which killed thousands of people? And why are there so many poor people in the world? Why are there disasters like Hurricanes, Tornados, earthquakes, droughts, heat waves, famines, diseases and disabilities, road accidents, all of which claim thousands of lives in each year.

 

My suspicion is that perhaps God is not so good (or maybe he is just corrupt) because if he was good then he would have done everything he can to stop all the suffering in the world. But the fact is, he doesn't do that.

Edited April 11, 2013 by seriously disabled

[pwagen]

Well, there's a very logical solution to this, but I'm guessing your question assumes there is a God?

[seriously disabled]

Well, there's a very logical solution to this, but I'm guessing your question assumes there is a God?

 

My question assumes there is a God. So what is really he logical solution to this assuming there is a God and that God is love?

[pwagen]

I think the classical answer is that he loves us but also gave us free will. And he can't retract that no matter how much we mess it up.

 

Also, one can probably argue that a god and we have different definitions of "love". So letting us commit cruelties to one another serves to teach us some valuable lesson which we can have a use for in the afterlife, eloquently described in the short story "The Egg".

 

http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

[seriously disabled]

"The Egg" story is of course not realistic at all.

I don't think that the universe is really so kind to us or that it so individual-centered. Evidence shows that the universe can be quite a cruel place sometimes and that's not always so human-centered. I mean the universe lets entire galaxies collide so I don't think it cares about us so much.

 

We tend to believe that everything in the universe is centered around humans but in the universe this isn't quite so. Maybe we aren't really so important. Or maybe God doesn't really exist after all and it's all just the universe or the multiverse or even human imagination doing its thing.

 

See for example

Edited April 11, 2013 by seriously disabled

[pwagen]

Or maybe God doesn't really exist after all and it's all just the universe or the multiverse or even human imagination doing its thing.

 

I thought we were assuming there is a god for the sake of this question? If we can't assume there is a god, it's a pointless question and you're starting in the wrong end by assigning traits to something without even knowing it exists in the first place.

[Phi for All]

I think God exists but only in the imagination of people who want comprehensive intervention to overcome circumstances beyond their own control. Our parents provide this to an extent when we're young so it's easier to look for it elsewhere when we're older. When the god fails to intervene in dire circumstances, we question why it fails in the role our parents played so lovingly.

[Dekan]

If God exists, and He created the Universe, He must have done it for a reason.

 

The reason was probably this: the Universe provides Him with a source of entertainment. Like watching a soap-opera.

 

After all, suppose you were God. A huge, omnipotent Being. Wallowing in the glorious radiance of your own existence. This would be nice. But it'd get boring after a while.

 

So you'd want some diversion, such as creating Satan, and humans. Then watching how the wily Satan tempts naive Eve with an apple. She eats it. And then (get this) Adam, her dumb schmuck of a husband, eats it too! What a laugh! God must be having a fit, watching His divine soap-opera unfold - you must admit, it's great entertainment.

[John Cuthber]

"If God exists, and He created the Universe, He must have done it for a reason."

Nope, our universe might be God's snot.

Of course, if He doesn't exists that addresses the OP's problem.

[Moontanman]

"If God exists, and He created the Universe, He must have done it for a reason."

Nope, our universe might be God's snot.

Of course, if He doesn't exists that addresses the OP's problem.

 

 

I always figured it was something that came out the other end...

[Phi for All]

I always figured it was something that came out the other end...

 

Actually, if it came out the other end, that would mean he did it for a reason. Snot is more of an non-conscious response.

 

But props for the funny.

[seriously disabled]

If God exists, and He created the Universe, He must have done it for a reason.

 

The reason was probably this: the Universe provides Him with a source of entertainment. Like watching a soap-opera.

 

After all, suppose you were God. A huge, omnipotent Being. Wallowing in the glorious radiance of your own existence. This would be nice. But it'd get boring after a while.

The reason was probably this: the Universe provides Him with a source of entertainment. Like watching a soap-opera.

 

After all, suppose you were God. A huge, omnipotent Being. Wallowing in the glorious radiance of your own existence. This would be nice. But it'd get boring after a while.

 

 

But that's bullshit (no offense of course) because we have no evidence that any God exists except in the imagination of man.

Edited April 12, 2013 by seriously disabled

[seriously disabled]

I think the classical answer is that he loves us but also gave us free will. And he can't retract that no matter how much we mess it up.

 

 

 

Free will is an illusion. You have no evidence that we actually have free will.

 

If a child is being raped by a stranger, I can intervene and stop it if I see it. Now following your logic, God just lets it happen and waits until after death to deal with it. So my rationality tells me that god is not just in any way. In other words God, if he even exists, is a monster.

Edited April 13, 2013 by seriously disabled

[pwagen]

Free will is an illusion. You have no evidence that we actually have free will.

Nor did I suggest we do.

Now following your logic

Not my logic. If you refer to my first post in this thread, you can probably guess my stance on it. Don't try to put words in my mouth just because I'm giving examples of an explanation from a certain point of view.

[Moontanman]

Free will is an illusion. You have no evidence that we actually have free will.

 

If a child is being raped by a stranger, I can intervene and stop it if I see it. Now following your logic, God just lets it happen and waits until after death to deal with it. So my rationality tells me that god is not just in any way. In other words God, if he even exists, is a monster.

 

 

I agree if God can't even stop a child from being sexually brutalized what good is he even if he does exist?

[chris logan]

If God exists, and He created the Universe, He must have done it for a reason.

 

The reason was probably this: the Universe provides Him with a source of entertainment. Like watching a soap-opera.

 

After all, suppose you were God. A huge, omnipotent Being. Wallowing in the glorious radiance of your own existence. This would be nice. But it'd get boring after a while.

 

So you'd want some diversion, such as creating Satan, and humans. Then watching how the wily Satan tempts naive Eve with an apple. She eats it. And then (get this) Adam, her dumb schmuck of a husband, eats it too! What a laugh! God must be having a fit, watching His divine soap-opera unfold - you must admit, it's great entertainment.

man! now that is what I call love!

[TheVillageAtheist]

There is no end to the questions but in the bottom line, the question is: If there is a God and like it's written, God is love then why does God allow all the suffering in the world to exist? Why did God allow the Holocaust to happen or the Rwandan genocide or the civil unrest in Syria which killed thousands of people? And why are there so many poor people in the world? Why are there disasters like Hurricanes, Tornados, earthquakes, droughts, heat waves, famines, diseases and disabilities, road accidents, all of which claim thousands of lives in each year.

 

My suspicion is that perhaps God is not so good (or maybe he is just corrupt) because if he was good then he would have done everything he can to stop all the suffering in the world. But the fact is, he doesn't do that.

 

If you're going to break rank and assume God isn't so good after all, why not just go all the way and assume he doesn't exist?

[jp255]

I think the classical answer is that he loves us but also gave us free will. And he can't retract that no matter how much we mess it up.

 

Also, one can probably argue that a god and we have different definitions of "love". So letting us commit cruelties to one another serves to teach us some valuable lesson which we can have a use for in the afterlife, eloquently described in the short story "The Egg".

 

http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

That classical answer doesn't sit well with me. It is very easy for a criminal just to say "Blame God, he/she/it was ultimately the cause of the crime I committed.". It can be argued that; we do, and have never messed anything up, and that God is the one who messed up his creations. So why is it not deemed reasonable, by those who are religious, to blame God for everything? Isn't it reasonable to judge God's decision to create us and this universe?

[seriously disabled]

That classical answer doesn't sit well with me. It is very easy for a criminal just to say "Blame God, he/she/it was ultimately the cause of the crime I committed.". It can be argued that; we do, and have never messed anything up, and that God is the one who messed up his creations. So why is it not deemed reasonable, by those who are religious, to blame God for everything? Isn't it reasonable to judge God's decision to create us and this universe?

 

Finally someone rational in this forum. I think that it can be easily argued that it is God's fault that he made us so corrupt and so selfish. So God really has no one to blame but his own mistake for making us the way we are.

Edited April 20, 2013 by seriously disabled

[jp255]

I've brought this up before, but it can be taken further and the situation of any creator can be considered. Though I make some assumptions here (some of which I make because of my lack of knowledge on law and religion).

 

Since the creator/God is the ultimate cause of all events that occur in this universe, the creator/God should be put on trial for all crimes. Now my knowledge of law is very poor but I believe it is against the law to decide not to act (tell the police etc.) if you have knowledge of a crime that is going to happen (assumption 1). This is where things get more confusing, but assuming assumption 1 is correct then the creator/God should be investigated to find out whether or not he/she/it had knowledge of the crimes before he/she/it decided to create the universe (maybe even knowledge that crimes were a possibility before he/she/it created the universe would be enough to find he/she/it culpable). This assumes that the creator/god had a choice to create the universe (might not be true) (assumption 2). It is also possible that creator/God could have prevented the crime, and he/she/it's decision to not act could also be judged. All of this is dependent on the law being fairly applied to any and every individual regardless of status (and also to whatever species the creator/God is) (assumption 3). Maybe the creator would also need somekind of mental examination as well.

 

Basically, what I am getting at is that the creator/God should also be put on trial for his/her/it's contribution to the crime from the viewpoint of societies law assuming the law is fairly applied to everyone equally when appropriate. Why shouldn't the creator/God be judged? There are many possibilities when one considers this scenario because of our lack of knowledge, but some of these possibilities are ones which should result in a conviction (according to societies law, e.g. the scenario of: creator had a choice in creation of universe/power to stop crime, creator had knowledge of the crimes, creator not mentally handicapped?).

 

If any of that is wrong, I know for sure that jp255's secular ethics vs the creator would definitely be one in which conviction is a possibility (depending on which assumptions are true). Who knows if the creator would turn up at the court date, or even tell the truth!

 

Of course, there is also the possibility there is no creator.

[seriously disabled]

Nor did I suggest we do.

Not my logic. If you refer to my first post in this thread, you can probably guess my stance on it. Don't try to put words in my mouth just because I'm giving examples of an explanation from a certain point of view.

 

But your examples are childish and irrational so I just had to point it out.

 

Also you have no shred of proof that we actually have free will.

 

If we can't even choose what we will have for lunch, then why do you think that we have free will?

Edited May 11, 2013 by seriously disabled

[knownothing]

You realize that arguing for the existence of a loving God is utterly hopeless, right?

 

Are you just trying to change religious people's minds? Your current methods are not going to work. I know, I used to be a religious person.

[pwagen]

But your examples are childish and irrational so I just had to point it out.

Of course they are, they're religiously inclined.

Also you have no shred of proof that we actually have free will.

I didn't claim to. To reiterate, I said the classical answer, meaning an answer from someone who does believe in a god and all that would be something along the lines of what I said. You set up the rules in the first post, that the question assumes there's a god. My very first post questioned that, but since that's how you asked the question, my answer assumes so as well. If it hadn't, it would have been much easier to explain your original question.

 

I could just as easily say you have no evidence for a god, which makes your question moot in the first place.

 

If you don't want to hear certain answers stated in certain ways, don't make your own question assume certain things.

Edited May 12, 2013 by pwagen

[photon propeller]

The existence of God has been debated in great detail in post "we are the players". Defining God is the first step. In our universe there is a natural tendency for positive and negative to equalize. The median of which is an oscillation between the two. Without life the final outcome will always be zero. It is the power of the living to choose to create or destroy. Life is the variable. God is the master of all creation, positive and negative. We are responsible for our choices. Religion should be re-written as the search for knowledge.

[Moontanman]

The existence of God has been debated in great detail in post "we are the players". Defining God is the first step. In our universe there is a natural tendency for positive and negative to equalize. The median of which is an oscillation between the two. Without life the final outcome will always be zero. It is the power of the living to choose to create or destroy. Life is the variable. God is the master of all creation, positive and negative. We are responsible for our choices. Religion should be re-written as the search for knowledge.

 

Can you supply some evidence of what you are asserting?