The concept of a god

[Moontanman]

You might be right to say that we have no evidence of an infinite universe.

 

 

But there is some evidence for multiple universes, even if inflation isn't necessarily eternal.

 

 

Note: I begin using the term "god-tuned" because fine-tuning isn't always explained theologically, as with the anthropic approach.

 

The god-tuned concept or the designer concept lacks evidence, whereas the multiverse theory has some evidence.

 

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To the gnostic readers: I say there is no evidence for a designer because I think of evidence as fulfilled predictions. The designer concept has no fulfilled predictions, it just rests on an arguments for its necessity (not just its necessity for fine-tuning, but also for biological adaptions and even the genesis of life). The problem with arguments for necessity is that they're difficult to uphold. To uphold one, you have to show that there is no possible alternative. Since the "neccessary" concept lacks evidence, the alternatives don't need evidence either. An alternative could be just about any whacky explanation my creative mind can crap out.

 

Note: The term "argument for necessity" is something I just made up. It's not formal.

 

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Alright, maybe our universe isn't fine-tuned.

 

 

From your link:

 

 

Some of my physicist colleagues find the multiverse theory alarming. Any theory in physics stands or falls depending on whether its predictions agree with the data. But how can we verify the existence of other bubble universes? Paul Steinhardt and George Ellis have argued, for example, that the multiverse theory is unscientific, because it cannot be tested, even in principle.

Surprisingly, observational tests of the multiverse picture may in fact be possible. Anthony Aguirre, Matt Johnson, Matt Kleban and others have pointed out that a collision of our expanding bubble with another bubble in the multiverse would produce an imprint in the cosmic background radiation—a round spot of higher or lower radiation intensity. A detection of such a spot with the predicted intensity profile would provide direct evidence for the existence of other bubble universes. The search is now on, but unfortunately there is no guarantee that a bubble collision has occurred within our cosmic horizon.

 

It is an interesting idea a very interesting idea but my personal favorite is the Ekpyrotic Universe it explains quite a bit about what happened before and how our universe came to be.

[photon propeller]

"The
infinite has no beginning, ... but seems to be the beginning of other
things, and to surround all things and guide all ... And this is the
divine, for it is immortal and indestructible." Aristotle

[SplitInfinity]

"The

infinite has no beginning, ... but seems to be the beginning of other

things, and to surround all things and guide all ... And this is the

divine, for it is immortal and indestructible." Aristotle

 

 

"I drank what?" Socrates

 

 

Split Infinity

[MonDie]

Old joke, but appropriate here:

 

I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump.

Me: "Don't do it!"

Him: "Nobody loves me."

Me: "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"

Him: "Yes."

Me: "Are you a Christian or a Jew?"

Him: "A Christian."

Me: "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?"

Him: "Protestant."

Me: "Me, too! What franchise?"

Him: "Baptist."

Me: "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"

Him: "Northern Baptist."

Me: "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

Him: "Northern Conservative Baptist."

Me: "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?"

He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region."

Me: "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?"

Him: "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912."

Me: "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

 

It's really cheesey of me to post this, but I think this song has a good message.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8zCFWvFMXU

[Moontanman]

"The

infinite has no beginning, ... but seems to be the beginning of other

things, and to surround all things and guide all ... And this is the

divine, for it is immortal and indestructible." Aristotle

 

 

And what would your point be dude?

[moreinput]

Is the belief of a god important? does it really matter if a person believes in a higher power or not? How does that belief impact our world? Why should people debate whether or not god exists, can't it be a simple case of 'live and let live'?

 

Big plane hijacked. VROOOOOM!!!! BOOOM!!! Crash!!!! anger, fear... /cry WAR

 

No, because irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results, irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results.irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results.irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results.irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results. Are you seeing a pattern here?

[Popcorn Sutton]

I think that if we simulate the universe computationally, would we achieve immortality before we died? I do not believe in infinity for the sole reason that it is unobservable, and therefore, I must conclude that god is not immortal, which has the implication that god might already be dead. After all, he hasn't (to our knowledge) participated in our reality for a very long time... unless you want to accept mysticism as participation. But mysticism is too superstitious for my liking. So the new question is, is god still alive? How can we prove beyond a doubt with logic that he is in fact immortal (which I doubt) and that he hasn't already passed?

[SplitInfinity]

I think that if we simulate the universe computationally, would we achieve immortality before we died? I do not believe in infinity for the sole reason that it is unobservable, and therefore, I must conclude that god is not immortal, which has the implication that god might already be dead. After all, he hasn't (to our knowledge) participated in our reality for a very long time... unless you want to accept mysticism as participation. But mysticism is too superstitious for my liking. So the new question is, is god still alive? How can we prove beyond a doubt with logic that he is in fact immortal (which I doubt) and that he hasn't already passed?

 

Pop...although I respect everyone's right to believe as they wish...I would like to point out that you used the word...HE to describe a GOD. Now think about this...why would a GOD have gender?

 

For that matter...why would what we assign the word GOD be an entity or individual kind of Spiritual Life Form?

 

I think that if...and that is a BIG IF....there actually is a GOD...it will not be ANYTHING like what we have imagined it would be or assigned a value to. It might just be possible that what is responsible for the existence of our Universal Reality and any and all existing Divergent States of in a Multiverse...might be something that our Human Mental Abilities cannot yet understand.

 

People say that they are looking at the BIG PICTURE when they talk about a GOD but in reality such people are really looking at a very little tiny part of the Big Picture. Look at just our Galaxy. The Milky Way Galaxy is but one Galaxy out of perhaps 500 BILLION or more in our Universe and there are anywhere from 200 Billion to 400 Billion stars in the Milky Way...because of gas and particle debris we can't know for certain yet....and as far as the number of planets...there could be at a MINIMUM...200 Billion Planets and perhaps as many as a TRILLION. There is calculated to be anywhere from 20 to 50 BILLION Earth like planets in our own Galaxy never mind the huge number of Earth like planets in the Universe.

 

And this is only talking about One Universal Reality as there may be INFINITE UNIVERSAL REALITIES IN A MULTIVERSE.

 

So now knowing that...when one is looking at the BIG PICTURE....one really has to LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE as if there is a GOD...such a GOD as described being the creator of EVERYTHING...means that such a GOD'S time could not be monopolized just by our one little life bearing planet now could it?

 

Split Infinity

[Popcorn Sutton]

Wellllllllll, not necessarily. Quantum Entanglement, split. If God is observing, he (sorry for gender) could be observing all divergent realities simultaneously. I'm a believer that there is no past or future, it is all occurring right now. Statistically, you can travel 11 trillion light years if you want to shake your own hand. Same goes for travelling back in time and shaking Ben Franklins hand, you just might need to travel a little farther.

[SplitInfinity]

Wellllllllll, not necessarily. Quantum Entanglement, split. If God is observing, he (sorry for gender) could be observing all divergent realities simultaneously. I'm a believer that there is no past or future, it is all occurring right now. Statistically, you can travel 11 trillion light years if you want to shake your own hand. Same goes for travelling back in time and shaking Ben Franklins hand, you just might need to travel a little farther.

 

Now I remember why I like you Pop! LOL!

 

Split Infinity

[chris logan]

Big plane hijacked. VROOOOOM!!!! BOOOM!!! Crash!!!! anger, fear... /cry WAR

 

No, because irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results, irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results.irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results.irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results.irrational thinking leads to irrational results, leads irrational thinking, which leads to irrational results. Are you seeing a pattern here?

oohhh did i just misinterpret my own question? I get what you are saying but do you mind explaining the VROOOOM BOOOM CRASH war part?

[SplitInfinity]

oohhh did i just misinterpret my own question? I get what you are saying but do you mind explaining the VROOOOM BOOOM CRASH war part?

 

I for one do not feel performing an act of revenge with the sole purpose of destroying those who perpetrated an act of premeditated murder..........is wrong in any way.

 

The ONLY thing that would be wrong is using the murderous act as an excuse to carry out actions upon unrelated targets or people or carry out an act of revenge in a unplanned and idiotic way.

 

The reality is that it is ONLY when people think they can get away with something or even if they know they won't be able to get away so they will do whatever they desire but if they know by carrying out a murderous action that something detrimental will happen as a result that is negative beyond the loss of their own life which they are so eager to give up...will such people not perform the murderous act.

 

Split Infinity

[SplitInfinity]

oohhh did i just misinterpret my own question? I get what you are saying but do you mind explaining the VROOOOM BOOOM CRASH war part?

 

How the Hell do I know that other guy went Vrooom Booom Crash! LOL!

 

Split Infinity

[science4ever]

... I would argue that, in doing so, they encourage bad thought patterns involving System 1 processing (see upcoming link).

The finding (by Norenzayan and Gervais) that analytical thought tends to decrease belief that there is* a god was based on dual process theory.

 

*It should be noted that the experiment's questionnaire didn't ask "Do you believe there isn't a god?"

Thanks for that link. I have just joined the forum and find that theory rather likely to be a good explanation for religious faith?

[science4ever]

Is the belief of a god important? does it really matter if a person believes in a higher power or not? How does that belief impact our world? Why should people debate whether or not god exists, can't it be a simple case of 'live and let live'?

The believers tend to act based on their belief so that makes such faith important

because of the impact on all others living in same society as the believers.

 

they vote on politicians that seems to be closer to their religious views.

Such have effect on abortion and other things like blasphemy laws.

 

People debate it because it directly affect their personal life.