Climate modification, real?

[Tim the plumber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mEfJO0-cTis

 

This is the idea that there is a program of
deliberately poluting the upper atmosphere with reflective stuff, sodium
or aluminum or whatever, to cool the planet.



It is indeed a dangerous thing to do as there is no danger from a
slightly warming earth but there are massive problems with a cooling
world.



I don't believe it's happening. Who would do it? Who would pay for it?
Why would they keep it secret? How would they do it without it being
widely known by all the people involved in loading it into planes? At
about 8 minutes in they say that there is a loss of about 20% of
sunlight hitting the planet today as compaired to a couple of decades
ago. If that was at all true them the climate would have massively
altered. There would be obvious residue trails left on the exhausts of
the planes.

Is this real or what? Is it possible?

 

P.S. I tried to just have the link buut ended up with the full video. Sorry. Mods feel free to sort it out.

[John Cuthber]

The short answer is that chemtrails are a conspiracy theorists' myth.

[overtone]

1) the dimming of sunlight - alck of penetration (it is just as strong above the atmosphere) is pretty well established, and its cause a matter of research now.

 

2) it would be a lousy way to control weather - its effects are difficult to predict in any detail.

 

3) Your notion that cooling would be more dangerous than warming is unfounded. The warming we face - which is proceeding in spite of the dimming, a matter of concern as it implies a stronger and potentially sudden (if whatever is dimming the light goes away or hits a limit) onset of background warming - is very serious.

[vampares]

I have looked into this subject fairly hard and I have not made an enormous amount of progress yet.

 

There are "concept theories" in the scientific community that poise the solar radiation management concept. Passing this with meteorology would be the next step. Meteorology is a very sophisticated science.

 

 

The only projects that I have documentation of being reported to NOAA as law requires are Silver Iodide cloudseeding and a couple of CO2 projects. I have not verified that the list of reported projects is valid. It is not held on the NOAA website that I can find currently anyways.

 

It would appear that something like 2000 kg's a year of AgI is released in a nano-partical smoke.

 

I have not been able to find evidence of direct federal funding of cloud seeding projects (outside of one in the 1960's sometime).

 

Most cloud seeding projects are listed as "snowpack augmentation". The sates listed are from memory: Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, Texas and California.

 

The websites of state governments of Utah and Wyoming state that they do have funded cloud seeding projects. I think Nevada has suspended its projects. Colorado has opened the grant award system to proposals.

 

There are weather modification companies in Texas, maybe outside of Corpus Christi and North Dakota.

 

 

Silver Iodide is obnoxious. It is harmful to plants, animals, insects. When it is sprayed it will land just about anywhere, so it is a chemical trespass of a toxic heavy metal. Silver from photographic processing must be removed sufficiently before the waste chemicals can be released into the sewage system.

 

The EPA regulates nano-silver containing products as a pesticide. These products must be reported to the EPA.

 

 

I have no verification of actual releases, if any. I have no data of the actual quantities released or where the AgI released into the environment is now.

 

 

Silver Iodide was used, experimentally, to suppress hurricanes at one point in time. My idea of the way this would work is that the AgI would create a upward rising of air by release of energy from water in the gaseous state. That release would create a low pressure area. If the area is created near the hurricane, it would shift the hurricane over towards the seeded area.

 

The atmospheric affects beyond this one meteorological mechanism could be... tornadoes, hail, dense air, wind, lightning, turbulence, haze, extremely dry air, extreme solar radiation, snow, ice, drought, flood, earthquakes, damage of electrical equipment, oxidation and deposition on metal surfaces.

US military operations might release some substances into the atmosphere. Similar to various substances in fireworks, perhaps? It may have some environmental effects. I don't know if these effects are intentional or evaluated. I do not know what the policies are in place regarding these issues.

Back to the Silver Iodide.

 

The burning of propane on the top of a mountain, in itself, would create sort of an updraft which would draw snow up the side of a mountain. Carbon dioxide can release water from clouds but there are some other mechanisms involved or techniques required. Snowmaking machines create fine mist of water particles. Burning biomass such as pine needle debris can induce a reaction in pine trees which will produce rainfall. Acoustic waves that produce the movement of air ie whistling.

 

I would classify all of these things as rain/snow inducers/collectors/generators. The weather modification reporting statues do not require the reporting of these activities. Down drafting by aircraft, atmospheric release of substances, large energy sonic waves, this sort of a thing is reported.

 

Climate modification occurs in all of these instances or none of them, depending on how you view climate modification. Outside of 'moving to a different climate', climate modification may require land use alteration or long term effects -- particularly side-effects, effects outside of the stated purpose of the activity. Using an adjective such as "destructive climate modification" or "adverse climate modification" or "incidental climate modification" may be more appropriate. Intentional climate modification maybe we could term "climate adjustment", "climate attenuation" or something along these lines. Producing anomalous meteorological events would be more along the lines of "modification".

 

Other concepts that fall into the category are painting heat absorbing surfaces with a reflective coating. Such as painting blacktop with titanium dioxide. A small amount of titanium dioxide, almost imperceivable, on blacktop surfaces can reduce the surface temperature by 50 degrees. This would be used on streets, roofing, etc. Titanium dioxide dust would be a potential issue, also would be the washing away of the titanium dioxide. So the implementation would need to controlled with regards to quantities and application methods. The effect this would have increases on roadways where the reducing usage of air conditioning further cools the environment.

Edited April 30, 2013 by vampares

[krash661]

chemtrails...

 

such a mystery.

If that was at all true them the climate would have massively

altered. There would be obvious residue trails left on the exhausts of

the planes.

some say it has already happened and is continuing to do so.

 

some even say chemtrails are also for many reasons rather than this topic.

Edited April 30, 2013 by krash661

[John Cuthber]

chemtrails...

 

such a mystery.

some say it has already happened and is continuing to do so.

 

some even say chemtrails are also for many reasons rather than this topic.

The only mystery is why some people believe such utter nonsense.

[swansont]

chemtrails...

 

such a mystery.

some say it has already happened and is continuing to do so.

 

some even say chemtrails are also for many reasons rather than this topic.

 

 

!

Moderator Note

"Some say" is a phrase that ought not be uttered in a science discussion. This is not a conspiracy discussion forum.

[vampares]

I think chemtrails / real ugly contrails may form when the lifted index is very high. This would mean that it is cold on the ground and warm up in the air. This has at least been my experience. And then there are moisture boundaries and fronts.

 

But as far as exhaust moisture combining with something in the air, like Silver Iodide, I'm not sure. Sometimes it is an indication it will rain soon. Rain clouds attract cloud seeders and so on.

 

No proof of any of these things but I used to get really bad jet trails.

[pwagen]

Sometimes it is an indication it will rain soon.

Sometimes? Isn't that another way of saying it's coincidental?

[John Cuthber]

What on earth does this mean ?

"but I used to get really bad jet trails."

 

It reminds me of an old cartoon: two birds are flying along when Concorde overtakes them and disappears into the distance.

One of the birds says "I wish I could fly that fast"

The other one says " You probably would if you had four backsides and all of them were on fire".