Big Bang and changing laws of physics

[SplitInfinity]

Stealth weapons are made by applying known technology.

Making a beam that travels through dusty, misty air and optics isn't.

 

Swansont's analysis doesn't inlcude the self focussing effect (or the simple focussing effect of raindrops) or the effect of less volatile strong absorbers like dust.

 

Once they get hot, they ionise the air round them and then that air is opaque.

 

You can hide an air craft (especially a stealth plane- that's the point).

Ye' cannae change the laws of physics.

 

 

Incidentally, re "It was DECADES before anyone knew about the SR-71 and the F-117 was flying missions directly over Eastern Europe on the Soviet Side without ANYONE knowing about it."

Unless you are a senior member of the Russian intelligence service, there's no way on God's earth that you can know if that statement is true.

 

Why did you post it on a science site?

 

And exactly why is it you can't change the laws of physics? Is it because someone told you it can't be done? Or perhaps because no one has ever done it? Or at least no one has ever known it to be done?

 

There are Celestial Bodies existing in our Universe that are changing the laws of Physiics right now. Black Holes do it. Quasars snd Pulsars do it. After the Big Bang the movement of particles faster than Light Speed shows it to have been done.

 

Some may say my statements are akin to Magic.

 

Magic is just the use of a High Level of Technology that we have not yet obtained yet.

 

So he said...just about.

 

Arthur C. Clark

 

Split Infinity

[pwagen]

 

After the Big Bang the movement of particles faster than Light Speed shows it to have been done.

You're not talking about the inflation period, are you?

[John Cuthber]

"Magic is just the use of a High Level of Technology that we have not yet obtained yet."
No, it's made up stuff.

There's a difference.

[SplitInfinity]

You're not talking about the inflation period, are you?

 

Inflation...in less than 10-30...30 should be small and to the upper right of 10...of a second after the Big Bang the Universe explosively expanded faster than the speed of light...c=186,282 Miles per Second....shooting matter and energy in all directions.

 

This occured some 13.7 Billion years ago.

 

Accelerating Expansion caused by Dark Energy started a bit more than 5 Billion Years ago...vastly increasing Universal Expansion.

 

Universal Expansion is measured and determined by the velocity of matter and energy thus determined by the distances traveled. Even if it is Space/Time expanding and carrying the Galaxies with it....Universal Expansion is still determined by velocity and distance traveled.

 

Thus...since Matter and Evergy are not supposed to be able to travel faster than Light Speed....Universal Expansion and Excelleration of Expansion is showing us Physics Breaking realities.

 

The behavior of Black Holes and what is going on inside has been determined by the greatest minds in Physics and Cosmology as behaving in Physics Breaking Way's and no one has been able to explain this as yet.

 

Even though this board deducted two points from me for my previous post...it is absolutely clear that certain Celestial Phenomina behaves and acts against the known rules of our Universal Physics and Natural Laws.

 

So what I am saying in these two posts is it would seem that by observation of these things...it appears that under specific conditions....our Universal Natural Laws or Physics either do not apply or perhaps another set of Universal Laws are in effect.

 

Also...I really do not appreciate the 2 point deduction for my post which is not only true but seems to have been misunderstood as to it's intent.

 

Split Infinity

[pwagen]

 

Thus...since Matter and Evergy are not supposed to be able to travel faster than Light Speed....Universal Expansion and Excelleration of Expansion is showing us Physics Breaking realities.

No, because matter isn't actually moving due to the expansion of the universe. They're still in the exact same place as they would be without expansion, but more space is created in between.

[zapatos]

And exactly why is it you can't change the laws of physics?

It has never before been observed and there is no theory that suggests you can do it.

There are Celestial Bodies existing in our Universe that are changing the laws of Physiics right now. Black Holes do it. Quasars snd Pulsars do it. After the Big Bang the movement of particles faster than Light Speed shows it to have been done.

No, all these things are behaving the laws of physics. I think you are confusing 'physics we don't fully understand' with 'laws of physics that are changing'.

Thus...since Matter and Evergy are not supposed to be able to travel faster than Light Speed....Universal Expansion and Excelleration of Expansion is showing us Physics Breaking realities.

Again, we are just observing events that are not fully understood.

Also...I really do not appreciate the 2 point deduction for my post which is not only true but seems to have been misunderstood as to it's intent.

No one likes deductions. It is possible though that if people are disagreeing with you that they feel that YOU are the one who has misunderstood.

 

I am unsure what you mean by "this board deducted two points from me for my previous post". You lost two reputation points because two individuals objected to your post for some reason.

[SplitInfinity]

It has never before been observed and there is no theory that suggests you can do it.No, all these things are behaving the laws of physics. I think you are confusing 'physics we don't fully understand' with 'laws of physics that are changing'.Again, we are just observing events that are not fully understood.No one likes deductions. It is possible though that if people are disagreeing with you that they feel that YOU are the one who has misunderstood.

 

I am unsure what you mean by "this board deducted two points from me for my previous post". You lost two reputation points because two individuals objected to your post for some reason.

 

Thank you for explaining to me the point system.

 

As far as whether it is Physics we don't understand or if it is Physical Law beed over from a different Universal State...either way it goes against what has been conventionally called Physics within our Universe.

 

Split Infinity

[Przemyslaw.Gruchala]

It has never before been observed and there is no theory that suggests you can do it.

 

Susskind. "The cosmic ladscape" i.e. Multiverse

(author of string theory)

It is clear reading his book that he is searching for explanation why some const is such not other, by creating "infinite" number of universes, with different const value.

And any plausible. Or even one universe consuming other universe, by creation of bubble growing in older one.

It's (totally) not mine idea.

[Dekan]

No, because matter isn't actually moving due to the expansion of the universe. They're still in the exact same place as they would be without expansion, but more space is created in between.

Can you clarify that please, if there's more space between them, aren't they further apart?

[pwagen]

Can you clarify that please, if there's more space between them, aren't they further apart?

Indeed, but my point was that they didn't become further apart by moving relative to other points. Rather, more space was created in between them, which puts them further apart without violating the speed limit.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space

[Delta1212]

Can you clarify that please, if there's more space between them, aren't they further apart?

I'm at point A. You're at point B. They are 1 mile apart. Some time later, I'm still at point A and you're still at point B. we did not move. However, universal expansion created more space between points A and B, so they are now 2 miles apart.

 

We're both still at the exact same point in space that we originally were, but how far apart those points are has increased because the amount of space overall has increased, and increased evenly throughout the universe.

[SplitInfinity]

I'm at point A. You're at point B. They are 1 mile apart. Some time later, I'm still at point A and you're still at point B. we did not move. However, universal expansion created more space between points A and B, so they are now 2 miles apart.

 

We're both still at the exact same point in space that we originally were, but how far apart those points are has increased because the amount of space overall has increased, and increased evenly throughout the universe.

 

This is not entirely correct.

 

If it were then M-31...the Great Galaxy in the Constellation of Andromeda...which is on a collision course with our Milky Way Galaxy would never get here.

 

Since Universal Expansion which is accelerating is a fact and is expanding right at this moment despite acceleration at a velocity greater than the Closing Velocity between Andromeda and the Milky Way...your statement cannot be correct.

 

What is correct is that Universal Space/Time Expansion is Mutually Exclusive to each independent Galactic Vector as Universal Space/Time is being created by the position of existance based upon Linear Time of all Celestial Bodies and Dark Matter.

 

If your stated...A...was our Moon and B was the Earth...that would mean by your example our Moon and Earth would be being seperated by created Space/Time and rapidly as well as such effect over coming the Gravitic Effect.

 

This does not happen thus your statement must be redefined as well as use a different example and set of parameters.

 

Split Infinity

[imatfaal]

This is not entirely correct.

 

If it were then M-31...the Great Galaxy in the Constellation of Andromeda...which is on a collision course with our Milky Way Galaxy would never get here.

 

Since Universal Expansion which is accelerating is a fact and is expanding right at this moment despite acceleration at a velocity greater than the Closing Velocity between Andromeda and the Milky Way...your statement cannot be correct.

 

What is correct is that Universal Space/Time Expansion is Mutually Exclusive to each independent Galactic Vector as Universal Space/Time is being created by the position of existance based upon Linear Time of all Celestial Bodies and Dark Matter.

 

If your stated...A...was our Moon and B was the Earth...that would mean by your example our Moon and Earth would be being seperated by created Space/Time and rapidly as well as such effect over coming the Gravitic Effect.

 

This does not happen thus your statement must be redefined as well as use a different example and set of parameters.

 

Split Infinity

 

Not sure what you are trying to say here - it gets a bit salady in the middle paragraphs. Delta1212 has given the standard and to my mind correct heuristic. There is a background expansion of about 72 kilometres per second per megaparsec - however at short scales (and short scale means up to the size of galactic clusters!) gravity is stronger than the expansion, and thus the local group is and remains gravitationally bound. To give you an idea of how slow this expansion is - you must look at the final term "per megaparsec" and take note that the milky way is measured in tens of kiloparsecs as is the distance to the Andromeda galaxy

[pwagen]

They are 1 mile apart.

Is this the issue? Because if so, yes, gravity would overcome the expansion at this distance. However (and I'm not trying to put words in Delta1212's mouth (or hands?)), this example looks to me like a way of convey an idea without the use of big numbers, making it ever so much easier to take in. So the distance being "1 mile" is arbitrary and unimportant - what's important is the idea that A and B are not moving, yet are further apart.

[Delta1212]

 

This is not entirely correct.

 

If it were then M-31...the Great Galaxy in the Constellation of Andromeda...which is on a collision course with our Milky Way Galaxy would never get here.

 

Since Universal Expansion which is accelerating is a fact and is expanding right at this moment despite acceleration at a velocity greater than the Closing Velocity between Andromeda and the Milky Way...your statement cannot be correct.

 

What is correct is that Universal Space/Time Expansion is Mutually Exclusive to each independent Galactic Vector as Universal Space/Time is being created by the position of existance based upon Linear Time of all Celestial Bodies and Dark Matter.

 

If your stated...A...was our Moon and B was the Earth...that would mean by your example our Moon and Earth would be being seperated by created Space/Time and rapidly as well as such effect over coming the Gravitic Effect.

 

This does not happen thus your statement must be redefined as well as use a different example and set of parameters.

 

Split Infinity

The Bohr model of that atom isn't an entirely accurate representation of reality, but it's still taught because it conveys some key concepts and it's a lot easier than trying to dump someone who doesn't know what an atom is straight into quantum mechanics.

 

pwagen is correct. I figured it would be easier to understand the core concept of expansion if it was being applied to more relatable distances and simpler numbers. Knowing the actual rate, what it means to be gravitationally bound, or even what a megaparsec is aren't strictly necessary to understanding the concept (even if you'd need to know them to make real-world measurements), and trying to explain too much at once, in any subject, can easily result in people having no idea what you're talking about.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Delta1212

[SplitInfinity]

The Bohr model of that atom isn't an entirely accurate representation of reality, but it's still taught because it conveys some key concepts and it's a lot easier than trying to dump someone who doesn't know what an atom is straight into quantum mechanics.

 

pwagen is correct. I figured it would be easier to understand the core concept of expansion if it was being applied to more relatable distances and simpler numbers. Knowing the actual rate, what it means to be gravitationally bound, or even what a megaparsec is aren't strictly necessary to understanding the concept (even if you'd need to know them to make real-world measurements), and trying to explain too much at once, in any subject, can easily result in people having no idea what you're talking about.

 

As per my post...I stated what was being described was not entirely correct. I said this as the example given was not sufficient to convey what was intended to be explained.

 

Split Infinity