Would it be correct to say that the presence of Probability within Quantum Mechanics and other areas of Physics, make PREDICTION impossible.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Well...the way I believe it to be is...YES...our Universe certainly shows us Randomness and much diversity...but in a MULTIVERSE...all possibilities must exist thus every aspect of probability is covered.

 

It is like this with the insurance companies...given enough time...EVERYONES probability of dying reaches 100%. Kind of the same thing in a Multiverse...given an Infinite number of Universal States...probability reaches 100% that every possibility will exist.

 

Split Infinity

 

Yes. I suppose by definition , you could be right. IF Multiverses are real. If they are just probabilities . namely etherial, light , of no substance then we are saying probabilities are probabilities some time some place.

 

This is the sort of counter argument put back to me on my theory of everything [ anything or everything will happen if.... bla de bla ..]

 

But do these multiverses exist ? in probability form or in some other form ? Possibilities ? Non possibilities ? unlikely 's and coming back down to earth . Can any of these have any future link with reality ? as opposed to future only probabilities.

 

Might it not be that , Yes, given INFINITY of time all probabilities have time to 'come around ' as it were . But the probabilities , multiply up so gargantually and monsterously numerically hughmungeous that even for one of these probabilities coming around goes beyond the time for any universe or multiverse ever still being here . ? [ like giga giga giga giga trillion years ]

 

no wonder you call yourself splitinfinity ?

 

it's Canal time again Mike

 

 

Edited April 25, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

It was a more general you than a specifically you you...

I accept you mean 'one' as in 'an individual '

 

I am very much of the mind that the universe is not mainly working because of the mathematical causality coming up from below . Although the below may have a fairly solid ish (not total) causal element to it. Namely defined by some of the laws we are concerned with in Physics. None the less we have these areas where things are based on probability. To handle this I do not believe the universe goes away and works out statistics.

 

I believe rather that nature ( the natural machinery of nature) takes part in things happening. And then acting as some form of mold, responds directly to circumstances presented . . Responses to the event could occur ( probabalistically ) in a number of ways.

 

Providing there are mechanisms in place where responces which gave increased advantages if favourable and for disfavourable opportunities get poor numbers.

 

Say like playing pool. Although you can work out angles, having a shot, and trying again until you get the shot right.

 

So nature favors the successful and Discourages the poor achiever . Then mold solutions emerge and improve This really is a trial and error method. NOT a Calculated responce.

 

I think this is demonstrated in the over production of permutations in say sperms, pollen , etc.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I accept you mean 'one' as in 'an individual '

 

I am very much of the mind that the universe is not mainly working because of the mathematical causality coming up from below . Although the below may have a fairly solid ish (not total) causal element to it. Namely defined by some of the laws we are concerned with in Physics. None the less we have these areas where things are based on probability. To handle this I do not believe the universe goes away and works out statistics.

 

I believe rather that nature ( the natural machinery of nature) takes part in things happening. And then acting as some form of mold, responds directly to circumstances presented . . Responses to the event could occur ( probabalistically ) in a number of ways.

 

Providing there are mechanisms in place where responces which gave increased advantages if favourable and for disfavourable opportunities get poor numbers.

 

Say like playing pool. Although you can work out angles, having a shot, and trying again until you get the shot right.

 

So nature favors the successful and Discourages the poor achiever . Then mold solutions emerge and improve This really is a trial and error method. NOT a Calculated responce.

 

I think this is demonstrated in the over production of permutations in say sperms, pollen , etc.

 

 

Below are two methodologies for arriving at a Goal/mold. ( Illustrated )

 

The RED line is the calculated , Mathematical, causal route to the goal. [ Prediction ]

The Blue lines are the many attempts trial and error , probability based method of reaching the mold /goal.[ Non Causal ]]

The green line is the inevitable success via the probability method. [Non Causal ]

 

I am suggesting the cosmos may use both methods in its creation of the UNIVERSE , in large doses of each .

 

 

[SplitInfinity]

Yes. I suppose by definition , you could be right. IF Multiverses are real. If they are just probabilities . namely etherial, light , of no substance then we are saying probabilities are probabilities some time some place.

 

This is the sort of counter argument put back to me on my theory of everything [ anything or everything will happen if.... bla de bla ..]

 

But do these multiverses exist ? in probability form or in some other form ? Possibilities ? Non possibilities ? unlikely 's and coming back down to earth . Can any of these have any future link with reality ? as opposed to future only probabilities.

 

Might it not be that , Yes, given INFINITY of time all probabilities have time to 'come around ' as it were . But the probabilities , multiply up so gargantually and monsterously numerically hughmungeous that even for one of these probabilities coming around goes beyond the time for any universe or multiverse ever still being here . ? [ like giga giga giga giga trillion years ]

 

no wonder you call yourself splitinfinity ?

 

it's Canal time again Mike

 

 

Multiverse 1.jpg

 

Mike...even if a person was to look at such things from the perspective...of the INFINITE...since we can actually see to the edges of our Universe...what would exist beyond? And this Beyond does not have to exist as some DISTANCE beyond but rather in a state of EXISTANCE BEYOND.

 

Split Infinity

[cladking]

Well...the way I believe it to be is...YES...our Universe certainly shows us Randomness and much diversity...but in a MULTIVERSE...all possibilities must exist thus every aspect of probability is covered.

 

It is like this with the insurance companies...given enough time...EVERYONES probability of dying reaches 100%. Kind of the same thing in a Multiverse...given an Infinite number of Universal States...probability reaches 100% that every possibility will exist.

 

Split Infinity

 

It is a virtual impossibility for even this state to exist. There aren't enough electrons in the universe to express this in binary. It would require 4.2 x 10 ^ 807,000 monkeys and typewriters just to get "War and Peace". The odds against Tolstoy's existence are astronomically higher than this. There are an infinite number of ways to make any point and Tolstoy was not limited to a single book or tactic. Perhaps he was influenced by his diet which was unique to his time and place. Certainly finding apples from so long ago is difficult.

 

With all the impossibility in the here and now and our near total inability to understand or predict it, why should we imagine that anything else is possible? Events will continue to unfold in ways we can't predict no matter how well we understand nature's laws in the future. We might be able to bend much of nature to our will as part of technology but where we don't control events they will forever remain unpredictable (and those things we do control will suffer unpredictable breakdowns and flaws).

 

This is the nature of nature itself. Time passage is where events unfold and every event is statistically impossible to almost infinite magnitude.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

This is the nature of nature itself. Time passage is where events unfold and every event is statistically impossible to almost infinite magnitude.

 

This last sentence of yours sound very Poetic . I am not sure whether it is strictly true , but as I say it rolls off the tongue . Is it a quote , or one you personally have coined. ?

 

I am probably displaying my ignorance , its probably a famous philosopher's quote like Plato or Socrates . ?

[cladking]

Truth to tell I wasn't even comfortable using the word "magnitude" in this context. There is a sort of gentle butchering of the language here to make a point.

 

This is a concept that seems to be screamed in the beliefs of the ancients. But to them it was almost axiomatic due to their perspective so was probably rarely stated in any form. It's easy to imagine other realities and we have no means to disprove them but, unless we stumble on the truth in such explorations these other realities will always prove fruitless. We need to stick to what we know and to try to see it from all possible perspectives. Hypothesis formation becomes automatic.

 

If you consider that human knowledge has grown exponentially since the pyramid building age this makes our world many orders of magnitude more complex than theirs. This will continue ad infinitum but we'll never be able to predict anything and for practical purposes are moving away from it in some regards or at least, coming to recognize the impossibility.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Truth to tell I wasn't even comfortable using the word "magnitude" in this context. There is a sort of gentle butchering of the language here to make a point.

 

This is a concept that seems to be screamed in the beliefs of the ancients. But to them it was almost axiomatic due to their perspective so was probably rarely stated in any form. It's easy to imagine other realities and we have no means to disprove them but, unless we stumble on the truth in such explorations these other realities will always prove fruitless. We need to stick to what we know and to try to see it from all possible perspectives. Hypothesis formation becomes automatic.

 

If you consider that human knowledge has grown exponentially since the pyramid building age this makes our world many orders of magnitude more complex than theirs. This will continue ad infinitum but we'll never be able to predict anything and for practical purposes are moving away from it in some regards or at least, coming to recognize the impossibility.

 

I believe we will feel it when we 'stumble on it ' as you say , because we are ' of the universe ' so I would have thought there would have been a certain ' Resonance' when we get near to that 'truth' you speak about. I know it sounds a bit fanciful but some times some things just want to be. They sound right, they feel right.

[SplitInfinity]

It is a virtual impossibility for even this state to exist. There aren't enough electrons in the universe to express this in binary. It would require 4.2 x 10 ^ 807,000 monkeys and typewriters just to get "War and Peace". The odds against Tolstoy's existence are astronomically higher than this. There are an infinite number of ways to make any point and Tolstoy was not limited to a single book or tactic. Perhaps he was influenced by his diet which was unique to his time and place. Certainly finding apples from so long ago is difficult.

 

With all the impossibility in the here and now and our near total inability to understand or predict it, why should we imagine that anything else is possible? Events will continue to unfold in ways we can't predict no matter how well we understand nature's laws in the future. We might be able to bend much of nature to our will as part of technology but where we don't control events they will forever remain unpredictable (and those things we do control will suffer unpredictable breakdowns and flaws).

 

This is the nature of nature itself. Time passage is where events unfold and every event is statistically impossible to almost infinite magnitude.

 

I believe you have this backwards.

 

Just by observation and calculated probability...if so many IMPOSSIBILITIES are presenting themselves...such is the Natural State of the Universe and this also leads us to believe in a Multiverse.

 

Just think about that CAT in the BOX.

 

Split Infinity

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Below are two methodologies for arriving at a Goal/mold. ( Illustrated )

 

The RED line is the calculated , Mathematical, causal route to the goal. [ Prediction ]

The Blue lines are the many attempts trial and error , probability based method of reaching the mold /goal.[ Non Causal ]]

The green line is the inevitable success via the probability method. [Non Causal ]

 

I am suggesting the cosmos may use both methods in its creation of the UNIVERSE , in large doses of each .

 

 

In looking at the two methods of reaching the goal.Mold. They have different requirements. The predictive/calculation route requires high precision or the path could soon go off target ( goal/mold) . This of course is how some of the atomic principles work. ( result by accuracy).

Contrary to this the probability routes rely on firing off in many different directions, and sooner or later the goal is certain to be reached by one of the shots. achievement by the "shot gun" approach , as opposed to a well aimed single bullet.

 

The two different methods suit different environments, and perhaps on some occasions work together to provide 'belt and braces' approaches.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

You do understand that it's unlikely that anyone else knows what your diagram means, right?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

You do understand that it's unlikely that anyone else knows what your diagram means, right?

 

O.K. Well I am going into this whole idea very soon.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

You do understand that it's unlikely that anyone else knows what your diagram means, right?

 

Here is a Go to simplify the Diagram And its context.

 

 

There appears to be the presence of GAPS, composed of ,PROBABILITY occurring over and over in the nature of things , and we ought to be looking at a different approach to arriving at solutions in these instants ( the genetic algorithm route for example) or the cosmos being a gigantic mold that everything is working its way into, rather than by strict predictable mathematical paths. The following is just a symbolic representation of one small (3) sequence of three types of events.one following the other 1 Strictly Predictable 2 only probability based 3 predictable

 

 

 

 

 

Left Hand Side ( PREDICTABLE ) Center ( UNPREDICTABLE ) Right Hand Side ( Predictable )

 

 

When you have a few of these in series , it is like a stick pushing a stick pushing a stick pushing a stick.

 

It becomes a Total Non Predictable solution, only Statistical , If that.is the case, then In some cases, perhaps with new future discoveries, it might be better, looking at the final mold and developing a different approach as to what gets into the various parts of the ' total cosmic mold.'

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An example of the differing types is attached here to illustrate the two types of thread sections combined. This Diagram is of no particular activity , but purely a line flow diagram of the two sorts 1 ) Formulated / Predictable Red-Mauve 2)Random/Probability based Blue-green and how they might/ and do sometimes work :-

If you follow the mauve up. It takes half a dozen very precise and determined moves to get quickly to the Goal/Mold

You notice the blues, fire off many times in all sorts of directions. Hopelessly missing in all sorts of directions. Only one makes it to the Goal /mold ( the Green ) Blue and green a bit similar , you might have to look a bit carefully . Whereas the Red Mauve has One Very determined sequence path to the goal./mold.

Without making heavy weather of this particular diagram , as it was not designed around anything in particular. It could ( for the Red line ) however be representative of an automated car garage door opening mechanism. A) Car interrupts Infra Red beam ,B) Transistor switches on , C) Relay gets power Motor to open D) garage doors winds open. E ) STOP

Goal achieved Garage door is open . Driver can enter Garage. . Highly deterministic.

For the green /blue it could be representing pollen in a flower going in many directions. [ wind, rain, bees that fly off never to return, gardeners poking around . Only one piece of pollen makes it to another similar plant ( say Tomatoes ) and Bingo the Goal/mold is reached Tomato plant is pollinated/germinated , Tomato grows and we have a TOMATO. Very Probability based. This paticular insect crawled to that particular flower [The Green Line Only }

However, It has to be said, in twenty years the garage door mechanism will have failed, something in that very rigid predictable sequence will have failed. The system is very vulnerable. Tomatoes on the other hand will be being pollinated over the next hundred years or more without interruption, by the sheer mass of numbers of insects and Plants.

So there is a place for both in the grand operation of the universe.

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos, Today, 12:45 AM.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[SplitInfinity]

Here is a Go to simplify the Diagram And its context.

 

 

There appears to be the presence of GAPS, composed of ,PROBABILITY occurring over and over in the nature of things , and we ought to be looking at a different approach to arriving at solutions in these instants ( the genetic algorithm route for example) or the cosmos being a gigantic mold that everything is working its way into, rather than by strict predictable mathematical paths. The following is just a symbolic representation of one small (3) sequence of three types of events.one following the other 1 Strictly Predictable 2 only probability based 3 predictable

 

 

 

 

 

Left Hand Side ( PREDICTABLE ) Center ( UNPREDICTABLE ) Right Hand Side ( Predictable )

 

 

When you have a few of these in series , it is like a stick pushing a stick pushing a stick pushing a stick.

 

It becomes a Total Non Predictable solution, only Statistical , If that.is the case, then In some cases, perhaps with new future discoveries, it might be better, looking at the final mold and developing a different approach as to what gets into the various parts of the ' total cosmic mold.'

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An example of the differing types is attached here to illustrate the two types of thread sections combined. This Diagram is of no particular activity , but purely a line flow diagram of the two sorts 1 ) Formulated / Predictable Red-Mauve 2)Random/Probability based Blue-green and how they might/ and do sometimes work :-

If you follow the mauve up. It takes half a dozen very precise and determined moves to get quickly to the Goal/Mold

You notice the blues, fire off many times in all sorts of directions. Hopelessly missing in all sorts of directions. Only one makes it to the Goal /mold ( the Green ) Blue and green a bit similar , you might have to look a bit carefully . Whereas the Red Mauve has One Very determined sequence path to the goal./mold.

Without making heavy weather of this particular diagram , as it was not designed around anything in particular. It could ( for the Red line ) however be representative of an automated car garage door opening mechanism. A) Car interrupts Infra Red beam ,B) Transistor switches on , C) Relay gets power Motor to open D) garage doors winds open. E ) STOP

Goal achieved Garage door is open . Driver can enter Garage. . Highly deterministic.

For the green /blue it could be representing pollen in a flower going in many directions. [ wind, rain, bees that fly off never to return, gardeners poking around . Only one piece of pollen makes it to another similar plant ( say Tomatoes ) and Bingo the Goal/mold is reached Tomato plant is pollinated/germinated , Tomato grows and we have a TOMATO. Very Probability based. This paticular insect crawled to that particular flower [The Green Line Only }

However, It has to be said, in twenty years the garage door mechanism will have failed, something in that very rigid predictable sequence will have failed. The system is very vulnerable. Tomatoes on the other hand will be being pollinated over the next hundred years or more without interruption, by the sheer mass of numbers of insects and Plants.

So there is a place for both in the grand operation of the universe.

Edited by Mike Smith Cosmos, Today, 12:45 AM.

 

Mike...your example is a perfect opportunity for me to bring up Chaos Theory and Fractal Patterns.

 

It has been found that even in the most random and unpredictable systems that over time...patterns will present themselves.

 

Split Infinity

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Mike...your example is a perfect opportunity for me to bring up Chaos Theory and Fractal Patterns.

 

It has been found that even in the most random and unpredictable systems that over time...patterns will present themselves.

 

Split Infinity

 

Yes like " Strange attractors " . i have read a book on Chaos Theory , Fractals and Complexity.

 

I think you are right though. even in apparent Chaos there are movements towards certain things. However , I am going to have to take this up another time or i will have a Divorce on my hands . Mike

Edited May 9, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[proximity1]

It is a virtual impossibility for even this state to exist. There aren't enough electrons in the universe to express this in binary. <b> It would require 4.2 x 10 ^ 807,000 monkeys and typewriters just to get "War and Peace". The odds against Tolstoy's existence are astronomically higher than this. There are an infinite number of ways to make any point and Tolstoy was not limited to a single book or tactic.</b> Perhaps he was influenced by his diet which was unique to his time and place. Certainly finding apples from so long ago is difficult.

 

With all the impossibility in the here and now and our near total inability to understand or predict it, why should we imagine that anything else is possible? Events will continue to unfold in ways we can't predict no matter how well we understand nature's laws in the future. We might be able to bend much of nature to our will as part of technology but where we don't control events they will forever remain unpredictable (and those things we do control will suffer unpredictable breakdowns and flaws).

 

This is the nature of nature itself. Time passage is where events unfold and every event is statistically impossible to almost infinite magnitude.

 

 

I think you're overlooking contingent circumstances and, reasoning without accounting for pre-existing circumstances produces a false impression of improbability. You can approach the issue via many examples. What are the chances of dying in an aircraft accident? Before there were any aircraft, the chances were slim to none. But, once aircraft were invented, the chances greatly improved. Once aircraft became a practical means of transporting people, the probability of dying in an aircraft accident (i.e. a crash) rose still further. Again, when commercial air transport became common, the chances grew much larger compared with the previous circumstances.

 

About Tolstoy and War and Peace --again, in a similar way, you're reckoning or trying to reckon on both Tolstoy's existence and his producing War and Peace arising ab nihilo. But, in and before Tolstoy's time, there were societies in which people wrote fiction. Thus, writing fiction, while not as common as having breakfast, lunch or dinner, was a common or ordinary activity. The probability of Tolstoy writing fiction increased enormously as soon as Tolstoy was born. Later, when he learned to read and write, the chances of War and Peace coming from his pen increased again. Meanwhile, many intervening factors came about, with varying consequences for the probability of War and Peace being written.

 

Once given a set of circumstances, probabilities increase or decrease depending on the circumstances and there is simply no reason to suppose that one has to calculate from some origin in primeaval slime to War and Peace or to the NASA Apollo program, for example.

 

Try reasoning fowards rather than backwards from War and Peace. Tolstoy is born in 1828. Births are common then. Tolstoy's life presents a number of features, all mixtures of chance and circumstantial probabilities which track other writers of the 18th, 19th and 20th centuries. He didn't take to schooing, lived in quite varied social circumstances, and saw life from an outsider's point of view. These, combined, made it more rather than less likely that he might become a writer, just as they also made it less rather than more likely that he'd become an insurance salesman.

 

Then, (from Wikipedia) ... "His European trip in 1860–61 shaped both his political and literary transformation when he met Victor Hugo, whose literary talents Tolstoy praised after reading Hugo's newly finished Les Miserables."

 

People travelled at that time. They also met others by chance. Some chance meetings occurred with, for example, Victor Hugo. But, while each event taken separately, isn't fantastically improbable, taken together, the chances of Tolstoy taking up writing improve very greatly.

 

He meets Victor Hugo. He reads the recently published Les Misérables.

 

Then, more from Wikipedia,

 

"Tolstoy's political philosophy was also influenced by a March 1861 visit to French anarchist Pierre-Joseph Proudhon, then living in exile under an assumed name in Brussels. Apart from reviewing Proudhon's forthcoming publication, La Guerre et la Paix (War and Peace in French), whose title Tolstoy would borrow for his masterpiece, the two men discussed education, as Tolstoy wrote in his educational notebooks: "If I recount this conversation with Proudhon, it is to show that, in my personal experience, he was the only man who understood the significance of education and of the printing press in our time."

 

and, from the pages relating to War and Peace :

 

"He began writing War and Peace in the year that he finally married and settled down at his country estate. The first half of the book was written under the name "1805". During the writing of the second half, he read widely and acknowledged Schopenhauer as one of his main inspirations. However, Tolstoy developed his own views of history and the role of the individual within it.^[9] The first draft of War and Peace was completed in 1863."

 

"Writers" ---> "Novelists" ---> "Russian writers/ novelists" ---> "Leo Tolstoy" ----> grows up ---> becomes literate ---> writes ---> writes a novel ---> writes a novel called War and Peace.

 

Impossible? No. Almost impossible? Not in the universe as it was then.

 

RE : "The odds against Tolstoy's existence are astronomically higher than this."

 

No, really, in fact, they weren't even higher. The odds were actually more for than against Tolstoy's becoming a writer as soon as he was born. Then, with time, they got better and better.

Edited May 9, 2013 by proximity1

[SplitInfinity]

It is a virtual impossibility for even this state to exist. There aren't enough electrons in the universe to express this in binary. It would require 4.2 x 10 ^ 807,000 monkeys and typewriters just to get "War and Peace". The odds against Tolstoy's existence are astronomically higher than this. There are an infinite number of ways to make any point and Tolstoy was not limited to a single book or tactic. Perhaps he was influenced by his diet which was unique to his time and place. Certainly finding apples from so long ago is difficult.

 

With all the impossibility in the here and now and our near total inability to understand or predict it, why should we imagine that anything else is possible? Events will continue to unfold in ways we can't predict no matter how well we understand nature's laws in the future. We might be able to bend much of nature to our will as part of technology but where we don't control events they will forever remain unpredictable (and those things we do control will suffer unpredictable breakdowns and flaws).

 

This is the nature of nature itself. Time passage is where events unfold and every event is statistically impossible to almost infinite magnitude.

 

You know...I was for a time an assistant for this Professor. He was Old but unlike some had a very good sense of humor, took pleasure in the small things in life...and this reminding me of my at the time deceased Grandfather...I would keep an eye on him as I loved the man and was worried about him.

 

He was brilliant and even though he was a Professor in the field and arena of Physics and Cosmology...he had Emotional and Social Intelligence.

 

You see...the old I.Q. Tests that back in the day were taken by everyone in their Jr. Year of High School were designed by people that didn't understand the concepts that Analytical Intelligence is not the only form of intelligence and it is possible for a person to score very high on an I.Q. test and still be an emotional and social MORON.

 

My Professor understood this and as we grew closer we would discuss such things. He like myself was lucky to be born with the Genetics to have a high Analytical I.Q. as well as have a high Emotional and Social I.Q. We both were musicians and most people who are good at science and math are usually NOT good on the creative side.

 

At the time there were two students who were very jealous that I was given the assistant spot and I can tell you right now I don't have a jealous bone in my body nor do I even understand why people get jealous. My Professor talked to me one day as I waited with with him on a stone wall ledge as he would get tired crossing the campus.

 

He told me...You know...there are no such things as IMPOSSIBILITIES. Although we can only show the tiniest amount of math to even show an association as far as this is concerned...because I am old and have taken alot of time since my wife died to look...REALLY LOOK at things be it objects of geometry or nature or people or emotions...I have found that the CAUSE AND EFFECT are so vicarious and positioned like an infinite sided dice balanced on the tip of a corner of that die.....that by the slightest cause will effect it to flip to anyone of the infinite sides.

 

He went on to say...for everything that happens...there is a REASON it happens and this applies not only to objects or Quantum Particles but to perception and emotion. He said...guyX and guyZ are jealous that I gave you the assistant job. They feel that they should have your job because they have been here longer and you just arrived. They also think you are White Trash because of your long hair..."I was in a Band Touring."...and I have never told them that you and your family are self made and wealthy. He said...all these things show me that what they think about you and what emotional state they are in because of this self made reality is very much the same for how there must be Infinite Possibilities and not only must there be but without this tenet of Universal Natural Law we could not exist.

 

He then asked me...after he flipped a quarter and it came up heads...."What is the probability that it came up heads?" I was about to say immediately....50/50...but knowing him now...I stopped my mouth from flapping and thought. I then said...100%

 

He smiled a very big smile and said..."NOW you got it! Now you can move on to greater understanding!" He went on and said..."It is like asking...what are the chances that THIS PERSON....and he pointed to an article he had folded to the front of the local Newspaper that showed a Man and a Woman...Husband and Wife who won $117 Million before taxes playing the lottery.

 

I said again...100%! He said..."YES!" He then went on to say...if the probability is calculated upon an individual prior to the Lottery Number being drawn...then such a person would have a better chance getting hit by a bolt of Lightning on a clear day 500 feet underwater in a Sub while wearing Rubber insulating boots and touching nothing! But STILL...this person WON!

 

He went on and we talked about how no matter how many times a person might flip a quarter...before it is flipped...no matter how many flips are performed...say....1 Billion...the probability that after a Half Billion flips where all came up tails...the probability it will be heads next still remained 50/50 for all following flips and this is the same even after 999,999,999 flips turn up tails.

 

His point was...there is no such thing as IMPOSSIBILITY. There is no such thing as Statistical IMPOSSIBILITY. The fact that the couple in the paper had won shows us that THINGS AND EVENTS WILL HAPPEN IF THEY CAN...AND EVEN IF WE CALCULATE THEY CAN'T...THEY STILL FIND A WAY TO OCCUR.

 

He looked at me and said...The reason I chose you was not because you are very good in this field...and definitely not because you are on time or can type or spell well...back then we used ELECTRIC TYPE WRITERS....and I didn't even pick you because of your high IQ or high aptitude scores or previous grades....I picked you because I KNEW that you could understand what we are talking about now.

 

He said...students like guyX and guyZ will never understand this as it goes against their nature. They must have quantitative evidence and mathematical proof. If it does not fit into the box that it has been designated by their own minds to be fit into...they will fight and rip and claw to make it fit. This is because although they are brilliant in the math of things...they don't get that the REAL RULES OF PHYSICS AND THE UNIVERSE....maybe perhaps used to engineer this or design that but...they will think such things to be numbers and quantitative and something that must be assigned a VALUE.

 

Then he said this...something I will NEVER FORGET...the only numbers a person should pay attention to and know quantitatively are the numbers that YOU...YOURSELF HAVE ASSIGNED A VALUE TO. Where one sees the number quantitatively as $150.00...the number of dollars that they spent on a dinner at a place where they first took their future spouse....another like you and I would see the number 2...as in just the two of us...just you and your girlfriend...just me and my wife. And the probability that after spending $150.00 and telling her a bad joke because I was nervous and thinking...Why does this beautiful woman want to be with ME?....and after all this what is the Probability that this chance meeting and date and all that goes along with it in a thousand and more details will result in her being my wife and my being happier than I have ever been?

 

100% There is no such thing as IMPOSSIBILITY in this Universe...or more aptly...MULTIVERSE.

 

He was a good man...I miss him.

 

Split Infinity

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

You know...I was for a time an assistant for this Professor. He was Old but unlike some had a very good sense of humor, took pleasure in the small things in life...and this reminding me of my at the time deceased Grandfather...I would keep an eye on him as I loved the man and was worried about him.

 

He was brilliant and even though he was a Professor in the field and arena of Physics and Cosmology...he had Emotional and Social Intelligence.

 

You see...the old I.Q. Tests that back in the day were taken by everyone in their Jr. Year of High School were designed by people that didn't understand the concepts that Analytical Intelligence is not the only form of intelligence and it is possible for a person to score very high on an I.Q. test and still be an emotional and social MORON.

 

My Professor understood this and as we grew closer we would discuss such things. He like myself was lucky to be born with the Genetics to have a high Analytical I.Q. as well as have a high Emotional and Social I.Q. We both were musicians and most people who are good at science and math are usually NOT good on the creative side.

 

At the time there were two students who were very jealous that I was given the assistant spot and I can tell you right now I don't have a jealous bone in my body nor do I even understand why people get jealous. My Professor talked to me one day as I waited with with him on a stone wall ledge as he would get tired crossing the campus.

 

He told me...You know...there are no such things as IMPOSSIBILITIES. Although we can only show the tiniest amount of math to even show an association as far as this is concerned...because I am old and have taken alot of time since my wife died to look...REALLY LOOK at things be it objects of geometry or nature or people or emotions...I have found that the CAUSE AND EFFECT are so vicarious and positioned like an infinite sided dice balanced on the tip of a corner of that die.....that by the slightest cause will effect it to flip to anyone of the infinite sides.

 

He went on to say...for everything that happens...there is a REASON it happens and this applies not only to objects or Quantum Particles but to perception and emotion. He said...guyX and guyZ are jealous that I gave you the assistant job. They feel that they should have your job because they have been here longer and you just arrived. They also think you are White Trash because of your long hair..."I was in a Band Touring."...and I have never told them that you and your family are self made and wealthy. He said...all these things show me that what they think about you and what emotional state they are in because of this self made reality is very much the same for how there must be Infinite Possibilities and not only must there be but without this tenet of Universal Natural Law we could not exist.

 

He then asked me...after he flipped a quarter and it came up heads...."What is the probability that it came up heads?" I was about to say immediately....50/50...but knowing him now...I stopped my mouth from flapping and thought. I then said...100%

 

He smiled a very big smile and said..."NOW you got it! Now you can move on to greater understanding!" He went on and said..."It is like asking...what are the chances that THIS PERSON....and he pointed to an article he had folded to the front of the local Newspaper that showed a Man and a Woman...Husband and Wife who won $117 Million before taxes playing the lottery.

 

I said again...100%! He said..."YES!" He then went on to say...if the probability is calculated upon an individual prior to the Lottery Number being drawn...then such a person would have a better chance getting hit by a bolt of Lightning on a clear day 500 feet underwater in a Sub while wearing Rubber insulating boots and touching nothing! But STILL...this person WON!

 

He went on and we talked about how no matter how many times a person might flip a quarter...before it is flipped...no matter how many flips are performed...say....1 Billion...the probability that after a Half Billion flips where all came up tails...the probability it will be heads next still remained 50/50 for all following flips and this is the same even after 999,999,999 flips turn up tails.

 

His point was...there is no such thing as IMPOSSIBILITY. There is no such thing as Statistical IMPOSSIBILITY. The fact that the couple in the paper had won shows us that THINGS AND EVENTS WILL HAPPEN IF THEY CAN...AND EVEN IF WE CALCULATE THEY CAN'T...THEY STILL FIND A WAY TO OCCUR.

 

He looked at me and said...The reason I chose you was not because you are very good in this field...and definitely not because you are on time or can type or spell well...back then we used ELECTRIC TYPE WRITERS....and I didn't even pick you because of your high IQ or high aptitude scores or previous grades....I picked you because I KNEW that you could understand what we are talking about now.

 

He said...students like guyX and guyZ will never understand this as it goes against their nature. They must have quantitative evidence and mathematical proof. If it does not fit into the box that it has been designated by their own minds to be fit into...they will fight and rip and claw to make it fit. This is because although they are brilliant in the math of things...they don't get that the REAL RULES OF PHYSICS AND THE UNIVERSE....maybe perhaps used to engineer this or design that but...they will think such things to be numbers and quantitative and something that must be assigned a VALUE.

 

Then he said this...something I will NEVER FORGET...the only numbers a person should pay attention to and know quantitatively are the numbers that YOU...YOURSELF HAVE ASSIGNED A VALUE TO. Where one sees the number quantitatively as $150.00...the number of dollars that they spent on a dinner at a place where they first took their future spouse....another like you and I would see the number 2...as in just the two of us...just you and your girlfriend...just me and my wife. And the probability that after spending $150.00 and telling her a bad joke because I was nervous and thinking...Why does this beautiful woman want to be with ME?....and after all this what is the Probability that this chance meeting and date and all that goes along with it in a thousand and more details will result in her being my wife and my being happier than I have ever been?

 

100% There is no such thing as IMPOSSIBILITY in this Universe...or more aptly...MULTIVERSE.

 

He was a good man...I miss him.

 

Split Infinity

 

 

That is an amazing story Split, Why have you not told me before. I now know why you and I are conversing . ( Within this particular Thread and the other one on " everything and anything can occur....." and with your attachment to the Multiverse )

Edited May 11, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[SplitInfinity]

That is an amazing story Split, Why have you not told me before. I now know why you and I are conversing . ( Within this particular Thread and the other one on " everything and anything can occur....." and with your attachment to the Multiverse )

 

Well..I have only known you for a short time. I have been lucky that I have many experiences in life as well as have done such things and learned from them at an early age. I will admit that the Genetics have a good deal to do with such things as Very Smart in both the Analytical and Emotional sides parents that were EXTREMELY TOUGH on me and even though they had money they earned...I had to earn EVERYTHING I got.

 

I was also lucky that I was born with talents in Music, Sculpture, Painting and just about anything creative. I also had a Dad who made sure that the amount of Baby Fat that was still on my body at 13 was quickly burned off! Working out became a passion and I am still very active on stage, as a diver, runner, martial arts...etc.

 

The one thing I took out of all this is that EVERYONE HAS SOMETHING TO CONTRIBUTE...and after seeing a childhood friend who had a slow speech issue even though he had a 135 IQ...being PICKED ON BY HIS OWN TEACHERS...I realized that could just as easily have been ME if my Dad had not forced me to lose 40 lbs!

 

After that and other things I made sure to use what mental skills I had teaching would be tormentors a LESSON as in reality...such people who pick upon others are just insecure themselves and if there is one thing I am VERY GOOD at is finding weakness and exploiting it.. I don't like to do this but sometimes it has to be done.

 

I enjoy talking with you also.

 

Split Infinity

[proximity1]

He then asked me...after he flipped a quarter and it came up heads...."What is the probability that it came up heads?" I was about to say immediately....50/50...but knowing him now...I stopped my mouth from flapping and thought. I then said...100%

 

He smiled a very big smile and said..."NOW you got it! Now you can move on to greater understanding!" He went on and said..."It is like asking...what are the chances that THIS PERSON....and he pointed to an article he had folded to the front of the local Newspaper that showed a Man and a Woman...Husband and Wife who won $117 Million before taxes playing the lottery.

 

I said again...100%! He said..."YES!" He then went on to say...if the probability is calculated upon an individual prior to the Lottery Number being drawn...then such a person would have a better chance getting hit by a bolt of Lightning on a clear day 500 feet underwater in a Sub while wearing Rubber insulating boots and touching nothing! But STILL...this person WON!

 

He went on and we talked about how no matter how many times a person might flip a quarter...before it is flipped...no matter how many flips are performed...say....1 Billion...the probability that after a Half Billion flips where all came up tails...the probability it will be heads next still remained 50/50 for all following flips and this is the same even after 999,999,999 flips turn up tails.

 

His point was...there is no such thing as IMPOSSIBILITY. There is no such thing as Statistical IMPOSSIBILITY. The fact that the couple in the paper had won shows us that THINGS AND EVENTS WILL HAPPEN IF THEY CAN...AND EVEN IF WE CALCULATE THEY CAN'T...THEY STILL FIND A WAY TO OCCUR.

 

 

----------------

 

I don't think this adds up, either. Probabilities relate to prospects--what may occur in an as-yet unknown outcome where there exists more than one possibility--not to determinations of what actually happened by simply observing a result. Saying that a lottery player, once he or she "wins," had, therefore, a "100% chance of winning" is an observation which is empty of import as far as calculating probabilities are concerned.

 

The player in question had a probability of winning which was--assuming a fair, uncorrupted game--exactly a factor of the number of tickets bought (entiries made) in the drawing. Thus, if he or she had bought one ticket, the chances of winning would be the same at that for any other holder of one ticket in the same drawing. Thus, mathematical probabilities which concern a known and fixed number of possible outcomes, (in a lottery, this is determined by the number of correct digits the players are required to guess-- 5, 6,7,8 or more, for example).

 

In the case of life's random occurrances, there is no such comparable circumstance. There is simply no way to calculate the probability of a so-called given person's "being born". But, once born, environmental circumstances enter into the greater or lesser liklihood of any subsequent event occurring-- whether we're able to quantify that probability or not.

 

Just because the improbable may occur, it doesn't follow that, therefore, virtually anything could occur as a practical possibility or with a probability which is significantly greater than zero.

 

In most cases, prospectively (which is the only sense in which it matters or "counts" ) life's events, which cannot be reduced to the fixed probabilities of a lottery drawing, cannot be reasonably known or calculated. If they could, there'd be no such thing as a stock market--since its daily outcomes would be calculable and, therefore, the market would collapse as a consequence of the outcome's being predictable.

 

The whole point of my earlier post can be summed up in two observations:

 

1) We don't and can't know the probability of a human life's occurrance or the events within it--the universe and all in it comprise a single and unique (as far as we are concerned, at any rate) series of events.

 

2) That notwithstanding, the probability of an existing person becoming a writer, writing a novel, and that novel becoming a celebrated success--as with the case of Tolstoy and War and Peace --these are all squarely within the realm of normal life's occurrances and there is nothing about them that rates their being classified as being astronomically numerically impossibly unlikely.

[kristalris]

If I understand the positions posed in this thread correctly it is a pure probability (i.e. God playing dice) vs predictability (Rutherford's deterministic) discussion. I miss the intermediate position in which it could also be (and even most probably is) a combination of both.

 

In a multiverse all - possible - scenario's are played out all the time in the past as in the future as a cyclic event.

 

You can thus look on it as a ship you observe at given moment in time sailing past New York at t0. This pre-determined state predicts where the ship can probably be in time t 2, but also where it can impossibly be. Even given the most improbable event happening of it carrying an atomic bomb that explodes and being hit by a meteor at the same time at t 1 still will not lead to the possibility of even parts of the atoms of the ship being in Tokyo at t2 when the time to reach that point is absolutely to short when it is observed in New York at t0.

 

This also doesn't mean that the cyclic event means that all possible scenario's at a deepest level (SM and beyond) can't be absolutely unique but the same at a higher (say molecule) level, like two industrial glasses are the same yet absolutely different.

 

So you can get an absolutely stable multiverse, in which an infinite amount of possible scenarios are played out. I'd even state that this is most probable, and testable given the assumption of the existence of an absolute truth that can be approximated via correct testing.

 

This also logically implies hidden variables with speeds > c in order for it not to be magic. It then becomes intuitive and thus most simple and thus most probable on Occams razor.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

If I understand the positions posed in this thread correctly it is a pure probability (i.e. God playing dice) vs predictability (Rutherford's deterministic) discussion. I miss

 

the intermediate position in which it could also be (and even most probably is) a combination of both.

 

 

 

I too think this is the one !

 

 

 

Namely : it is a pure probability (i.e. God playing dice) vs predictability (Rutherford's deterministic)

 

"most probably is a combination of both."

 

 

 

 

 

Deterministic ------- Probability ---------- deterministic

Edited May 21, 2013 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[SplitInfinity]

He then asked me...after he flipped a quarter and it came up heads...."What is the probability that it came up heads?" I was about to say immediately....50/50...but knowing him now...I stopped my mouth from flapping and thought. I then said...100%

 

He smiled a very big smile and said..."NOW you got it! Now you can move on to greater understanding!" He went on and said..."It is like asking...what are the chances that THIS PERSON....and he pointed to an article he had folded to the front of the local Newspaper that showed a Man and a Woman...Husband and Wife who won $117 Million before taxes playing the lottery.

 

I said again...100%! He said..."YES!" He then went on to say...if the probability is calculated upon an individual prior to the Lottery Number being drawn...then such a person would have a better chance getting hit by a bolt of Lightning on a clear day 500 feet underwater in a Sub while wearing Rubber insulating boots and touching nothing! But STILL...this person WON!

 

He went on and we talked about how no matter how many times a person might flip a quarter...before it is flipped...no matter how many flips are performed...say....1 Billion...the probability that after a Half Billion flips where all came up tails...the probability it will be heads next still remained 50/50 for all following flips and this is the same even after 999,999,999 flips turn up tails.

 

His point was...there is no such thing as IMPOSSIBILITY. There is no such thing as Statistical IMPOSSIBILITY. The fact that the couple in the paper had won shows us that THINGS AND EVENTS WILL HAPPEN IF THEY CAN...AND EVEN IF WE CALCULATE THEY CAN'T...THEY STILL FIND A WAY TO OCCUR.

 

 

----------------

 

I don't think this adds up, either. Probabilities relate to prospects--what may occur in an as-yet unknown outcome where there exists more than one possibility--not to determinations of what actually happened by simply observing a result. Saying that a lottery player, once he or she "wins," had, therefore, a "100% chance of winning" is an observation which is empty of import as far as calculating probabilities are concerned.

 

The player in question had a probability of winning which was--assuming a fair, uncorrupted game--exactly a factor of the number of tickets bought (entiries made) in the drawing. Thus, if he or she had bought one ticket, the chances of winning would be the same at that for any other holder of one ticket in the same drawing. Thus, mathematical probabilities which concern a known and fixed number of possible outcomes, (in a lottery, this is determined by the number of correct digits the players are required to guess-- 5, 6,7,8 or more, for example).

 

In the case of life's random occurrances, there is no such comparable circumstance. There is simply no way to calculate the probability of a so-called given person's "being born". But, once born, environmental circumstances enter into the greater or lesser liklihood of any subsequent event occurring-- whether we're able to quantify that probability or not.

 

Just because the improbable may occur, it doesn't follow that, therefore, virtually anything could occur as a practical possibility or with a probability which is significantly greater than zero.

 

In most cases, prospectively (which is the only sense in which it matters or "counts" ) life's events, which cannot be reduced to the fixed probabilities of a lottery drawing, cannot be reasonably known or calculated. If they could, there'd be no such thing as a stock market--since its daily outcomes would be calculable and, therefore, the market would collapse as a consequence of the outcome's being predictable.

 

The whole point of my earlier post can be summed up in two observations:

 

1) We don't and can't know the probability of a human life's occurrance or the events within it--the universe and all in it comprise a single and unique (as far as we are concerned, at any rate) series of events.

 

2) That notwithstanding, the probability of an existing person becoming a writer, writing a novel, and that novel becoming a celebrated success--as with the case of Tolstoy and War and Peace --these are all squarely within the realm of normal life's occurrances and there is nothing about them that rates their being classified as being astronomically numerically impossibly unlikely.

Prox...although you have posted an intelligent reply...you not getting it.

 

The whole point of my telling this story as well as the point my Professor got across to me is that because these are statistical probabilities calculated for a specific action or event to happen that are so great in number to be on the edge of IMPOSSIBILITY....but yet because THEY DO HAPPEN....shows us that interaction, actions or non-actions with any particle or group of particles with another particle or group of particles existing in our Universal Reality....no matter how great the improbability....WILL OCCUR...as the Probability for an event to occur goes up to 100% over a long enough time period.

 

At the same time...in the Quarter Flipping example...if I flipped a quarter...that was balanced....a Half Billion Times...the Probability for the next flip will remain at 50% for it to come up Heads for the 1 Half Billion and One time. There is a 100% Probability that a possibility exists for the quarter to be flipped 1 Billion Times and come up Heads every time...same for Tails.

 

Thus since seemingly impossible things can and do happen all the time...there is a 100%PROBABILITY THAT A POSSIBILITY EXISTS that such things will occur.

 

Since as I stated...if I was existing on an INFINITE LINEAR TIMELINE....I would have a 100% Probability of winning the Lottery. Since in a MULTIVERSAL SYSTEM Time is NOT LINEAR and is Non-Linear in it's Nature...there is a version of me that just won todays Lottery.

 

Split Infinity

[kristalris]

I too think this is the one !

 

 

 

 

 

DSCF3034.JPG

 

 

 

Deterministic ------- Probability ---------- deterministic

The thing is of course that although it is deterministic at every point in time that doesn't mean that it can actually be determined because of inherent measurement problems. That again doesn't mean to say that you can't hit on the correct formula's that then will prove to keep on predicting future events correctly at an extreme degree of accuracy albeit a widening probabilistic / statistical prediction the further you go in time from your pre- determined begin state. I.e. you measure as best you can at the beginning and at the end. I.e. you only think a particle can be in two or more places at the same time due to incorrect prior assumptions and insurmountable measurement problems. Simple error in reasoning.

 

Prox...although you have posted an intelligent reply...you not getting it.

 

The whole point of my telling this story as well as the point my Professor got across to me is that because these are statistical probabilities calculated for a specific action or event to happen that are so great in number to be on the edge of IMPOSSIBILITY....but yet because THEY DO HAPPEN....shows us that interaction, actions or non-actions with any particle or group of particles with another particle or group of particles existing in our Universal Reality....no matter how great the improbability....WILL OCCUR...as the Probability for an event to occur goes up to 100% over a long enough time period.

This would only be logically correct assuming it is pure probability. What if it is deterministic as well?

At the same time...in the Quarter Flipping example...if I flipped a quarter...that was balanced....a Half Billion Times...the Probability for the next flip will remain at 50% for it to come up Heads for the 1 Half Billion and One time. There is a 100% Probability that a possibility exists for the quarter to be flipped 1 Billion Times and come up Heads every time...same for Tails.

 

Thus since seemingly impossible things can and do happen all the time...there is a 100%PROBABILITY THAT A POSSIBILITY EXISTS that such things will occur.

Again assuming a certain scenario is not absolutely impossible. On what do you base that assumption? If you only assume the extremely improbable then in an infinite multiverse every extremely improbable scenario will be played out at all time frames all the time an infinite amount of times. (Albeit not at the deepest level, because then there would have to be a scenario in which no life will ever return. That hasn't happened as you can observe. So you may logically deduce that such a scenario is absolutely impossible.)

Since as I stated...if I was existing on an INFINITE LINEAR TIMELINE....I would have a 100% Probability of winning the Lottery. Since in a MULTIVERSAL SYSTEM Time is NOT LINEAR and is Non-Linear in it's Nature...there is a version of me that just won todays Lottery.

 

Split Infinity

It has nothing IMO to do with whatever convention you use in order to measure time. Even if it is cyclic it must be unique for the reason I just gave. So just like the hands of the clock turn in a cyclic way doesn't mean time is in a loop. Nor if you slow the hand down that time then has slowed down. The clock has. The notion of time is needed to describe what we observe and the conventions are needed to communicate that. The question then is what is the simplest way to do that. Well that can be dependent on the question, and thus differ. (12 hours three minutes and two hundreds of a second ago I was in a different time zone).

[SplitInfinity]

The thing is of course that although it is deterministic at every point in time that doesn't mean that it can actually be determined because of inherent measurement problems. That again doesn't mean to say that you can't hit on the correct formula's that then will prove to keep on predicting future events correctly at an extreme degree of accuracy albeit a widening probabilistic / statistical prediction the further you go in time from your pre- determined begin state. I.e. you measure as best you can at the beginning and at the end. I.e. you only think a particle can be in two or more places at the same time due to incorrect prior assumptions and insurmountable measurement problems. Simple error in reasoning.

 

This would only be logically correct assuming it is pure probability. What if it is deterministic as well?

Again assuming a certain scenario is not absolutely impossible. On what do you base that assumption? If you only assume the extremely improbable then in an infinite multiverse every extremely improbable scenario will be played out at all time frames all the time an infinite amount of times. (Albeit not at the deepest level, because then there would have to be a scenario in which no life will ever return. That hasn't happened as you can observe. So you may logically deduce that such a scenario is absolutely impossible.)

It has nothing IMO to do with whatever convention you use in order to measure time. Even if it is cyclic it must be unique for the reason I just gave. So just like the hands of the clock turn in a cyclic way doesn't mean time is in a loop. Nor if you slow the hand down that time then has slowed down. The clock has. The notion of time is needed to describe what we observe and the conventions are needed to communicate that. The question then is what is the simplest way to do that. Well that can be dependent on the question, and thus differ. (12 hours three minutes and two hundreds of a second ago I was in a different time zone).

Kris...as far as the time thing is concerned...we have determined just in our Universal State that Time is Relative as well as things like Time Dilation are a reality. This is just in our Universal Reality.

 

Now you stated 12 hours 3 minutes..etc...ago...you were in a different time zone.

 

That time passage is experienced and observed to pass by you. If I was flying in a Space Craft orbiting earth at Relativistic Speeds and left earth at the moment you left your position in that other time zone...and came back to Earth at the moment you made that statement...let's say I spent a total about of passed time for me of 5 Minutes to leave and come back right as you typed how long a time had passed for you since you had been in that other time zone.

 

So for me...5 minutes had passes due to the velocity and distance I was orbiting Earth...for you...12 hours plus passed...and this is because of Time Dilation.

 

Now imagine a Multiversal System...and it's true I cannot prove it to exist but it would account for the way Quantum Mechanics works and how Quanta can be both particle and wave...but imagine a Multiverse as a giant infinite forest. Each tree is an independent Universal Grouping and each branch infinite in number on each tree is a Divergent Universal Reality.

 

Each Tree being a Group of Universal Realities would have the same natural laws for every branch or Universal Reality upon that tree. Thus each Tree or Universal Group would have natural laws and constructs completely different than every other tree or Universal Grouping.

 

This would allow for Universal Groups where say...Life does not exist...and such a Group would have Infinite Divergent Universal Realities...each one not having life but existing as a Branch off that Groupings original Baseline Reality.

 

Split Infinity