Ancient Technology, Camera Obscura And Greek Computer

[SomethingToPonder]

Im sure you all heard about the ancient greek "computer" which worked with gears and mechanical parts. It could predict any planetary movements and is accurate even now. I couldn't believe it but it is true. Have a quick google and you'l see.The article isn't about this so i'l skip ahead.

Im watching a program " Treasures decoded" about the turin shroud. Now they are looking into if it could have been the work of a master forger in the 13th or 14th century or if it really is a biblical artifact. Now there is no evidence of photography in that period however if you look up a device called the "camera obscura" it could be used to project images. Plato wrote about it as well.

Now there was no pigment, powder or anything on the shroud, however in the program im watching They have created the same thing using medieval technology and have genuinely succeeded in 2 or 3 ways.

Alongside these ancient things, It is common knowledge among historians now that The roman's advanced on ancient greek technology and had medical tools to release pressure from the skull among other things , They had irrigation systems etc and then after the fall of the empire technology declined vastly. Even up until Victorian times in Britain (which was the superpower at the time) they were throwing their waste into the streets and using buckets. It took us up until this time to catch up with the technology that was "lost" at the fall of the roman empire. The history of it all really is fascinating.

We really declined in advancements didn't we, If you think of all the great philosophers and inventors that were around in ancient and medieval times even compared to a few hundred years ago, In my opinion ; We seriously declined in intellect in some way. But recovered around 1900 onward.
Do you think this could be to do with Civilizations? As a civilizations grow so does the people's intellect?
Imagine what Plato and divinci could have done with today's technology?

[EdEarl]

We really declined in advancements didn't we, If you think of all the great philosophers and inventors that were around in ancient and medieval times even compared to a few hundred years ago, In my opinion ; We seriously declined in intellect in some way. But recovered around 1900 onward.

Do you think this could be to do with Civilizations? As a civilizations grow so does the people's intellect?

Imagine what Plato and divinci could have done with today's technology?

 

Since there are more people on the world today, there are probably more people with the intellect equal to people like Plato and others from the past. Since evolution continues there may be people even more capable.

 

Nonetheless, the contribution to knowledge, art, music, and literature by historic figures is notable. We would not be where we are without them. We owe them honor and respect.

[michel123456]

Im sure you all heard about the ancient greek "computer" which worked with gears and mechanical parts. It could predict any planetary movements and is accurate even now. I couldn't believe it but it is true. Have a quick google and you'l see.The article isn't about this so i'l skip ahead.

 

Im watching a program " Treasures decoded" about the turin shroud. Now they are looking into if it could have been the work of a master forger in the 13th or 14th century or if it really is a biblical artifact. Now there is no evidence of photography in that period however if you look up a device called the "camera obscura" it could be used to project images. Plato wrote about it as well.

 

Now there was no pigment, powder or anything on the shroud, however in the program im watching They have created the same thing using medieval technology and have genuinely succeeded in 2 or 3 ways.

 

Alongside these ancient things, It is common knowledge among historians now that The roman's advanced on ancient greek technology and had medical tools to release pressure from the skull among other things , They had irrigation systems etc and then after the fall of the empire technology declined vastly. Even up until Victorian times in Britain (which was the superpower at the time) they were throwing their waste into the streets and using buckets. It took us up until this time to catch up with the technology that was "lost" at the fall of the roman empire. The history of it all really is fascinating.

 

We really declined in advancements didn't we, If you think of all the great philosophers and inventors that were around in ancient and medieval times even compared to a few hundred years ago, In my opinion ; We seriously declined in intellect in some way. But recovered around 1900 onward.

Do you think this could be to do with Civilizations? As a civilizations grow so does the people's intellect?

Imagine what Plato and divinci could have done with today's technology?

Most of what you said is correct but you are a victim (as I was) of the occidental teaching of history.

The decline of the Roman Empire is part of occidental history and then teachers embark on middle-ages and then Renaissance.

 

Most do not mention with enough insistance that the eastern part of the roman empire (the Byzantine Empire) that was ruled by the Greeks kept all the ancient knowledge, that this knowledge was partly destroyed, partly stolen during the 1204 siege of Constantinople (when ignorant christians crusaders savagely killed other christians), then finally migrated in occident after 1453, when the muslims took the place, opening the eyes of the Venetians and other Italians, spreading the Renaissance all over occident.

It is true that in the meanwhile a lot of time has been lost. When you look at the (known) achievements of a man like Hero of Alexandria, surely it could have been that the industrial revolution happened a thousand years earlier, at least.

[Ophiolite]

And don't foget the Chinese!

[PeterJ]

Hmm. If the industrial revolution had happened earlier we probably wouldn't still be here.

 

One Roman engineer, can't remember his name, famously comments that Roman technology is so advanced that there's nothing left to invent.

 

The very first city in the Indus valley had better plumbing than London the 19th century.

 

Other pointless facts to follow.

[SomethingToPonder]

Hi all, Sorry have not commented back in a while, I wrote a full rpely out this morning, Must have been around 500 words and for some reason , It has not posted,So i will try and remember what i wrote earlier, However i found some information in a book i picked up from a charity shop, for around 20 pence about this exact topic. The book is called "the unexplained, mysteries of mind space and time."
First of all The Baghdad battery Which was of course a very basic battery that was thought to be from around the Parthian period. And secondly about the ancient greek " Clock" that is thought to be around 2000 years old and also shows to an astonishing accuracy the placements of planets as well, and could predict the movements of planets even in today's day and age. First il reply yo your comments and then post some quotes from the book.

 

Since there are more people on the world today, there are probably more people with the intellect equal to people like Plato and others from the past. Since evolution continues there may be people even more capable.

 

Nonetheless, the contribution to knowledge, art, music, and literature by historic figures is notable. We would not be where we are without them. We owe them honor and respect.

Yes I agree, But i was sort of angling more towards the notion that we dont make as much of an effort any more as they did,I do recognize that there are many scientists working all the time on many different projects in different fields of research, and i have nothing but respect for them however i dont think anybody "devotes" themselves to their work as often as philosophers and astronomers did in those days.
You are right we owe them honor and respect.

 

Most of what you said is correct but you are a victim (as I was) of the occidental teaching of history.
The decline of the Roman Empire is part of occidental history and then teachers embark on middle-ages and then Renaissance.

Most do not mention with enough insistance that the eastern part of the roman empire (the Byzantine Empire) that was ruled by the Greeks kept all the ancient knowledge, that this knowledge was partly destroyed, partly stolen during the 1204 siege of Constantinople (when ignorant christians crusaders savagely killed other christians), then finally migrated in occident after 1453, when the muslims took the place, opening the eyes of the Venetians and other Italians, spreading the Renaissance all over occident.

It is true that in the meanwhile a lot of time has been lost. When you look at the (known) achievements of a man like Hero of Alexandria, surely it could have been that the industrial revolution happened a thousand years earlier, at least.

yes isnt it such a shame the amount of knowledge that was lost in situations such as the 1204 siege of Constantinople.Just imagine how advanced we would have been if people were not so ignorant and did not destroy so much information. I find the facts about that siege very interesting actually and i think i will research it quite thoroughly in my spare time. Just imagine as well how much history is buried under the sand in some deserts and under the sea, That may have been not covered by water a few thousand years ago, so much of the deep sea has never been explored. Alongside ancient ruins in certain country's as it is still very dangerous for scientists and archaeologists to go there, Say the new pyramids found in africa for instance.
It may well have been my friend it may well have been.

Il start with the battery,
Ancient electricity. When archielogist willhelm Konig came across the "baghdad battery" in a museum in iraq in 1937 he immediately saw how it could have------- been used to generate an electric voltage. Experiments made with modern replicas some years later confirmed Konig's belief that it could have indeed served this purpose. To generate a voltage it would have been necessary to pour a suitable liquid into the cylinder. A large variety of fluids could have been use including acetric acid or citric acid(these are the main constituents of vinegar and lemon juice respectively.) ,or copper sulphate solution . This arrangement will generate between 1 and a half and 2 volts between the -copper cylinder and the iron rod, if a series of such cells were to be linked (forming a "battery" in the proper sense of the word) the available voltage could be increased substantially.
the most likely use for electricity among the parthians would have been the electroplating of figurine an advanced form of the art of gilding which dated back centuries before them. The battery could have been used to apply a voltage between a metal statuette and an ingot of gold while no there were immersed in an electrolyte. Gold would have been transferred through the liquid to be deposited as a thin film on the figures surface.
Static electricity was known to the ancients; they knew for instance, that when amber (in greek, elektron) was rubbed, it would attract light objects such as dust and hairs. So the technique of generating electrical current-which is electric charge in motion -could have been equally haphazard, isolated discovery centuries before its general recognized initial use.neither finding seemed to lead to further technological development or insight into the causes of the phenomenon, however although some enthusiasts have claimed that the parthians and before them the ancient Egyptians- used electric light. There are indeed enough soberly accredited anomalies of technology from the past to keep us well aware that some of our ancestors did develop their tecnology -to astonishingly high levels"

Interesting, But personally i dont think the egyptians had electrical light seeing as im sure there would have been some "evidence found. And als that the greeks were probably the best at working things out and problem solving/inventing .

Now the Treasure ship as it is titled. (Greek clock)
In 1900, sponge divers found th wreck of a treasure ship, Almost 2000 years old off the greek island of Antikythera, between the peloponnesian peninsula and crete. It was laden with bronze and marble statues, and may have been sailing to rome when it went down in about 65BC. in it's cargo was found a mass of wood and bronze, the metal so badly corroded that it could just be made out as as the remains of gearwheels and engraved scales. Only in 1954 did Derek J de solla price of cambridge University finally deduce that the mechanism was kind of astronomical clock, far ahead of anything that was to be seen in europe again for hundreds of years, In fact the mechanism when new, Must have borne a remarkable resemblance to a good modern mechanical clock.
The device consisted of at least 20 gearwheels supported by a number of bronze plates, the whole mounted in a wooden box. When a shaft that passed through the side of the box was turned the pointers moved at different speeds over dials, which were protected by doors, Inscriptions in Greek explained how to operate the ,machine and how to read the dials.
the device was a working model of the celestial bodies -Sun moon and the planets known to the greeks. Their relative positions in the sky were shown with great accuracy. the time of day was als indicated in the pointers.
In price's words "nothing lke this instrument is preserved elsewhere, Nothing comparable to it is known from ANY scientific text or literary allusion. " he goes on to say that " It seems likely that the antikythera tradition was part of a large corpus of knowledge known hat has since been lost to us, But was known to the arabs" Mechanical calendar devices were made by them centuries later, and they are said to have inspired the clock makers of medieval europe. (so the greeks invented them, The arabs copied the greeks , and then the Europeans copied the arabs, yet we have no known text or anything to date how the knowledge was passed on)
But what remarkable inventions such a body of knowledge have contained? What forces, benevolent or malevolent, might the ancients commanded that did not stay alive in the memory of their descendants? that of course remains a mystery. "


I hope you all read that as it took me bloody ages to write out. Anyway's, I wonder how much there really is out there, Under seas under deserts etc.

[John Cuthber]

This

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism

is certainly fascinating. It's a pity that this show

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01hlkcq

is no longer available.

It's important to realise that metals like brass are easily recycled so broken clocks and such like would have been melted down as scrap.

that might go some way to explaining why there are so few still around from those days.

[EdEarl]

And don't foget the Chinese!

China invented gun powder and much more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnYnU-1UGPg

[Delta1212]

One Roman engineer, can't remember his name, famously comments that Roman technology is so advanced that there's nothing left to invent.

That quote has also been attributed to a 19th century patent office worker.

 

I wouldn't take it seriously.

[SomethingToPonder]

That quote has also been attributed to a 19th century patent office worker.

 

I wouldn't take it seriously.

That wouldn't happen to be the guy who told einstein that everything that could have been invented already has been would it? If it isn't then there is some seriously doubtful patent workers out there.